Interracial Sex, taboo or natural.

[Tybee Swing 286]

Do people separate couples they will play with in the lifestyle from couples they would openly have dinner with in public?

 

No. We go out to dinner/public places with the couples we meet...all of them. We don't have lifestyle clubs around here, so it's dinner, drinks, dancing in public places. We have sort of a group that has formed over time, and it's a mixed group. We all go dancing, etc. etc.

 

Just curious, the fact that it's not an overriding problem indicates in some instances it would be?

 

Mr. Tybee was born and raised down here. I've been in this community for over 10 years, and in the south my entire adult life. Since 2004 (when we started), we've met three white couples that turned out to have "issues" about race in the lifestyle. One of these couples is from here (raised down here). The other two couples were transplants from PA and from NY state. We've met quite a few people; we even used to run an off-premise group around here, open to anybody over 21. So, we've met a fair number of people from around here who are in the lifestyle.

 

It always irks me when southerners get pointed at first when these issues come up, be it illiteracy, stuck in the time warp of pre-Civil rights, etc. Hey, ignorance is alive and well in the midwest, the northeast, and other places too, as far as we can tell. I'm not saying there aren't racists in the south; but it's not as prolific as some would think.

[hamlet 53]

Of the four passages that were quoted to "prove" Greg's racism, it seems to me that the only one that's even potentially problematic would be:

 

"With white men, the problem usually falls into one of two categories. Either they cum too early (after only four or five strokes during intercourse) or they can't get an erection at all (and then make some lame statement like, "This has never happened to me before!"). This has happened at least 60% of the time during swinging encounters with white men. Black men, on the other hand, rarely seem to have these problems."

 

But, if this passage were prefaced with the phrase, "In our experience," the problem would disappear. Even though these sentences might sound like a swipe at all white men, my guess is that it was just intended as a factual statement of what's happened with the white men Sheryl's been with. And you really can't take exception to that: the facts of their experience are the facts.

 

Likewise, people's turn-ons are what they are, and they don't necessarily imply racism. For instance, I can say that I would under no circumstances want to have sex with a man of any color. Does that make me sexist?

 

Though it's never happened to me, I don't think I'd be bothered if a woman were to say to me, "Sorry, I don't swing with white men." (I might be disappointed, but that's another story.) I might even consider it to be tactful. We've sent face pics to a couple of couples who've declined to meet us because "Mary just doesn't go for men with beards." Now the truth may well have been that Mary just didn't go for me, but putting it the way they did made it feel a lot less personal. Granted, if a woman were to snarl at me "I don't even touch vile honky bastards like you," I think I'd be perturbed, but if she politely told me that she prefers black men, I can't imagine that that would be a problem. And, judging from the tone of Greg and Sheryl's posts, it doesn't seem likely that they'd ever be anything but polite.

[WesternSwing 504]

Of the four passages that were quoted to "prove" Greg's racism, it seems to me that the only one that's even potentially problematic would be:

 

"With white men, the problem usually falls into one of two categories. Either they cum too early (after only four or five strokes during intercourse) or they can't get an erection at all (and then make some lame statement like, "This has never happened to me before!"). This has happened at least 60% of the time during swinging encounters with white men. Black men, on the other hand, rarely seem to have these problems."

 

But, if this passage were prefaced with the phrase, "In our experience," the problem would disappear. Even though these sentences might sound like a swipe at all white men, my guess is that it was just intended as a factual statement of what's happened with the white men Sheryl's been with. And you really can't take exception to that: the facts of their experience are the facts.

Exactly. And as Greg said the comments have been taken out of the context of the rest of the post around the comment. This is a common tactic for spreading internet rumors about politics, immigration, etc. Taking a portion of someone's speech, letter, writings, etc. out of context to support a third party's agenda. Numbskull should have linked back to each post the comments were taken from so that each of the readers here could read the complete post and decide for themselves. References are always good, unless they wouldn't support your agenda by listing them.

[NumbskullsX2 24]

Exactly. And as Greg said the comments have been taken out of the context of the rest of the post around the comment. This is a common tactic for spreading internet rumors about politics, immigration, etc. Taking a portion of someone's speech, letter, writings, etc. out of context to support a third party's agenda. Numbskull should have linked back to each post the comments were taken from so that each of the readers here could read the complete post and decide for themselves. References are always good, unless they wouldn't support your agenda by listing them.

The only reference was to the original link. I didn't link back to each post because if anybody want's to read it "in context", they should follow the thread from beginning to end. I thought it was inflammatory, and didn't want to give it any more attention than it originally received.

 

Agendas-

 

A policeman in a large city could easily say that 60% of the black people he meets are criminals, or that 60% of the interracial couples he pulls over are holding drugs, and be telling the absolute truth. A person who works in an inner-city health clinic could say that 60% of the interracial couples she sees have one or more STD's A psychologist could say that 60% of the women he sees in interracial marriages suffer from low self esteem. All of these statements could very well be "facts." He could then use these "facts" to justify discrminating against ALL black people, based only on the color of their skin. Would he be right or wrong?

 

To us, it doesn't matter what HE does. We don't have an agenda in regards to color, or who we consider as playmates. We're mature enough to make up our own minds about people. We're mature enough not to lump them together because of the color of their skin, or where they're from. Even if we thought it was true, we're also smart enough and sensitive enough not to post on a message board "WE no longer play with interracial couples because in OUR experience, they've all been druggies, criminals, and nut cases" Even if it didn't make us sound like racists, it would make us sound like IDIOTS.

 

I wouldn't say anything to anybody on a message board that I wouldn't say to their face.

 

Apparently, "making up your OWN mind about people" on a case by case basis requires too much mental horsepower for certain individuals. Maybe it's better that those individuals make their decisions based on only upon race. ESPECIALLY if it means we're "excluded".

[NumbskullsX2 24]

All she said was that she wasn't going to have sex with white men any more. You see, it smarts a bit when people say they're not interested in you--no matter what the reason may be.

 

Do I pop a blood vessel when people say they're not attracted to black women? Hell, no! As it stands now, it's just weeding people off of my dance card.

It wasn't that "she wasn't going to have sex with white men anymore" that was offensive, it was everything that came after the word "because"

 

I don't care if she never has sex with anybody ever again. What I care about is that somebody else used "her" words and "her" decision to insult an entire race.

 

Saying that you're not attracted to somebody doesn't give you a right to insult them.

 

There are nice ways to say a thing, and ways that are going to cause trouble.

[VegasLee 1,486]

What I care about is that somebody else used "her" words and "her" decision to insult an entire race.

 

She did not insult an entire race.

 

I am part of that race and I was not insulted by what she said.

[crazycatz 17]

the reality is, ANY generalisations made on the basis of race IS racism - be they negative generalisations or positive ones....and there is evidence of both in this thread.

[havefuninsun 122]

"WE no longer play with interracial couples because in OUR experience, they've all been druggies, criminals, and nut cases" Even if it didn't make us sound like racists, it would make us sound like IDIOTS.

 

Dude ... I think this is the issue. They didn't say they weren't going to play with white men for any other reason but their experience(s) have been that sexually, they just don't do it for her. If they cum too quickly, have a difficult time staying hard, whatever -- her experiences have been that the white guys she has met in the lifestyle have more of these issues.

 

Do *I* think you should group everyone together from some bad experiences? Nope ... but if that is their reality, and you personally think it's idiotic, who cares what they think. I think they may be missing out, but who cares? It's their playtime, not mine.

 

It's about sex, right?

 

Their experiences are their experiences.

 

I have a white friend who really digs on being with black men. Why? Her experiences have been good ones. She has had less positive experiences being with white men, so she finds herself more attracted to black men.

 

There is a quasi-local profile in our area from a white couple that says they do not play with other races, and they even go as far as to say they're not interested in playing with couples who are certified by other races. Now, that sounds more racist to me. In their profile, even though that is in your face and you can't help but think, "wow" when you read it, the next sentence says, "this is our preference - we know it's not everyone's preference - if it bothers you, just move on to the next profile." At least you know where these people stand.

 

I've also seen profiles that have flat out said "we're looking for well-hung black men only." Again, we can just move right on by because we would not be filling their preference.

 

I'm just so surprised this has hit such a nerve.

[Greg & Sheryl 368]

NumbskullsX2 said:

A policeman in a large city could easily say that 60% of the black people he meets are criminals, or that 60% of the interracial couples he pulls over are holding drugs, and be telling the absolute truth. A person who works in an inner-city health clinic could say that 60% of the interracial couples she sees have one or more STD's A psychologist could say that 60% of the women he sees in interracial marriages suffer from low self esteem. All of these statements could very well be "facts." He could then use these "facts" to justify discriminating against ALL black people, based only on the color of their skin. Would he be right or wrong?

We would argue that he would be RIGHT! He obviously couldn't discriminate in regard to schooling, housing or hiring, because that would be illegal, but if he used those facts to justify not socializing with black people, that would be HIS CHOICE, and he would be completely entitled to it.

 

Quote

What I care about is that somebody else used "her" words and "her" decision to insult an entire race.

We don't understand this at all. It sounds like you're suggesting that our statements are insulting coming from Greg, but not from Sheryl. The substance of the message, rather than the messenger, is what should matter.

 

Quote

Saying that you're not attracted to somebody doesn't give you a right to insult them.

Perhaps you should have kept that in mind when you made unflattering remarks about Sheryl's weight and hair.

 

Quote

There are nice ways to say a thing, and ways that are going to cause trouble.

Goodness knows you've provided us with a lot of examples in this thread. There is a reason why your post rating icon is currently red.

[Cerberus 16]

More risk for HIV in some races. So that could a limiting factor for play

 

Hey guys hope you all don't think this is my POV. It is a comment I have heard with sex in general.

 

I would say per capita it may be true. But i have no facts to back this up.

 

ahh, here are some from the CDC

 

HIV/AIDS in 2005

 

According to the 2000 census, blacks make up approximately 13% of the US population. However, in 2005, blacks accounted for 18,121 (49%) of the estimated 37,331 new HIV/AIDS diagnoses in the United States in the 33 states with long-term, confidential name-based HIV reporting [2].*

Of all black men living with HIV/AIDS, the primary transmission category was sexual contact with other men, followed by injection drug use and high-risk heterosexual contact [2].

Of all black women living with HIV/AIDS, the primary transmission category was high-risk heterosexual contact, followed by injection drug use [2].

Of the estimated 141 infants perinatally infected with HIV, 91 (65%) were black (CDC, HIV/AIDS Reporting System, unpublished data, December 2006).

Of the estimated 18,849 people under the age of 25 whose diagnosis of HIV/AIDS was made during 2001–2004 in the 33 states with HIV reporting, 11,554 (61%) were black [3].

 

*See the box (before the References section) labeled Understanding HIV and AIDS Data for a list of the 33 states.

[Spoomonkey 418]

I would say per capita it may be true. But i have no facts to back this up.

 

True... But let's all keep in mind that ANY TIME you have sex with a stranger you are at risk for disease. You have to be wise enough and discerning enough to make a "judgment" about the person - not the statistics that might somehow relate to them.

 

But isn't that ultimately the point? Make your judgments based on the person?

 

I think when we forget that point, we are being racist, elitist, narrow-minded... Whatever fits...

 

We have come up with a new term around here (mostly to describe Mrs Spoo's "slight bisexual interest) and I think it fits pretty well: "Person-sexual". Just judge each person as an individual. If they fit your preferences - great! If they over come your preferences - even better!!!

[NumbskullsX2 24]

Greg & Sheryl said:

Perhaps you should have kept that in mind when you made unflattering remarks about Sheryl's weight and hair.

I didn't make those comments, my wife did. I did not agree with her, of course, but "to convince her otherwise would be tantamount to forcing her to “take one for the team,” which is something that neither of us believe in" which is something I'm sure you understand.

 

Greg & Sheryl said:

There is a reason why your post rating icon is currently red.

So that's what that is! Well, if my "post rating" is red because I call bullshit when I see it, then I'll wear my red one with pride. The only "rating" that I care about is the one I get from my family and my friends. Currently, it's pretty good, maybe because I try to treat ALL people with respect. Even racists and bigots.

[Greg & Sheryl 368]

I didn't make those comments, my wife did. I did not agree with her, of course, but "to convince her otherwise would be tantamount to forcing her to “take one for the team,” which is something that neither of us believe in" which is something I'm sure you understand.

As we've said twice before in this thread (but you have failed to acknowledge thus far), the source of the statement doesn't matter. An insult is an insult regardless of who it comes from, so the source is irrelevant.

...I try to treat ALL people with respect. Even racists and bigots.

...except online.

[NumbskullsX2 24]

She did not insult an entire race.

 

I am part of that race and I was not insulted by what she said.

Yep. La-La land.

 

Now that we know that you're "part of that race", which, according to Sheryl, "has consistently underperformed in bed" I'm curious as to which you are - one of the ones who "cums after only 4 or 5 strokes", or one who "can't have an erection at all?" Just asking, that's all

[NumbskullsX2 24]

I hate to say it but it's all still too alive and well in the south. I know there are even still (swinger) clubs around that don't allow people of certain races to attend.

Maybe that's because all of their experiences with people of "certain races" were negative. If so, banning people of "certain races" from their club isn't racist, it's just their "preference"

An insult is an insult regardless of who it comes from, so the source is irrelevant....except online.

That's what I've been saying all along.

Don't be lookin' around, the bite marks on your ass are your own

[Greg & Sheryl 368]

Cerberus said:

Hey guys hope you all dont think this is my POV.

 

HIV/AIDS in 2005

 

According to the 2000 census, blacks make up approximately 13% of the US population. However, in 2005, blacks accounted for 18,121 (49%) of the estimated 37,331 new HIV/AIDS diagnoses in the United States in the 33 states with long-term, confidential name-based HIV reporting.

It may not be your point of view, but it's a legitimate point of view. It's an undeniable fact that African-Americans have the highest rate of HIV infection in this country, which is enough to make some people uncomfortable about having sex with black people (and it may increase the "taboo" factor for others).

 

Spoomonkey said:

True... But let's all keep in mind that ANY TIME you have sex with a stranger you are at risk for disease. You have to be wise enough and discerning enough to make a "judgment" about the person - not the statistics that might somehow relate to them.

In a perfect swinging world, it would be nice if everyone chose playmates on an individual basis. However, there are risks associated with this lifestyle, so each couple must decide how they are going to conduct themselves in order to reduce that risk. The statistics on the second pie chart posted by Cerberus are a reason we don't play with bisexual men. Others may decide they don't want to play with us because of the statistics on the first pie chart, and that's perfectly fine with us. As Pepper & Drew said earlier, that's just weeding people off of our dance card.

[Greg & Sheryl 368]

Now that we know that you're "part of that race", which, according to Sheryl, "has consistently underperformed in bed" I'm curious as to which you are - one of the ones who "cums after only 4 or 5 strokes", or one who "can't have an erection at all?" Just asking, that's all

Perhaps the reason VegasLee doesn't take offense is because he knows he doesn't fit into that "underperforming" category. While it may sadden Greg if someone doesn't want to know him because he/she thinks most black men are thugs, he doesn't take personal offense because he knows he doesn't fit into that "thug" category.

[Greg & Sheryl 368]

NumbskullsX2 said:

Maybe that's because all of their experiences with people of "certain races" were negative. If so, banning people of "certain races" from their club isn't racist, it's just their "preference"

That's a perfectly fair statement. Whatever their motive is, if they don't want certain races at their clubs, they are entitled to that preference. But our beloved Julie, even though she described it as racist, certainly wasn't popping a blood vessel over it, was she? We're pretty confident she wasn't sending them pointless, vicious emails, either.

 

Quote

That's what I've been saying all along.

Don't be lookin' around, the bite marks on your ass are your own

We are genuinely perplexed by this statement. You've been quite clear in stating that a major part of your problem with us was that you felt statements attributed to Sheryl were actually statements from Greg. Now you're saying it didn't matter?

[crazycatz 17]

Greg & Sheryl said:

That's a perfectly fair statement. Whatever their motive is, if they don't want certain races at their clubs, they are entitled to that preference.

I'm sorry but are you for real? i cant believe anyone would think it would be ok to ban admission to a club based on race!

[VegasLee 1,486]

i'm sorry but are you for real? i cant believe anyone would think it would be ok to ban admission to a club based on race!

 

Crazycatz,

 

You may be surprised that there are many clubs in the U.S. that will not allow you in if you are not pretty enough, rich enough, skinny enough or not part of a couple. Just because it is the U.S. does not mean that all get to have everything. People that own the clubs set the rules for who and who can not come into their clubs.

 

Does not mean that we all agree with it or disagree with it but bottom line is a private club owner makes his own rules, his club, his money, his party. If we don't agree we just don't go to that club.

 

NumbskullsX2:

 

Your name says it all. Truth in advertising.

[Spoomonkey 418]

Greg & Sheryl said:

In a perfect swinging world, it would be nice if everyone chose playmates on an individual basis.

 

Rather than based on race? Yes... It would

[crazycatz 17]

Crazycatz,

 

You may be surprised that there are many clubs in the U.S. that will not allow you in if you are not pretty enough, rich enough, skinny enough or not part of a couple. Just because it is the U.S. does not mean that all get to have everything. People that own the clubs set the rules for who and who can not come into their clubs.

 

Does not mean that we all agree with it or disagree with it but bottom line is a private club owner makes his own rules, his club, his money, his party. If we don't agree we just don't go to that club.

 

NumbskullsX2:

 

Your name says it all. Truth in advertising.

 

thanks be to jesus i don't live in the US so. that's mad that someone could condone that AND get away with it. the mind boggles.

[Tybee Swing 286]

What's odd, in different parts of this country being with certain ethnic groups seems to be taboo.

 

SCcpl40, I just read your profile. (Great profile, by the way!) I see that you're members of Carolina Friends and Southern Socials. We've been to CF in Charlotte a couple of times, including one of their BIG annual events. That was a mixed event. We've been to the Charleston location of Southern Socials (though it's closed now in Charleston). That was a smaller club than The Estate, but it was mixed, too.

 

We're in the same region and have been to some of the same organizations...have you found them to be segregated in any way? We just didn't get that vibe when we were up there.

 

What have your experiences been like with this issue?

[Cerberus 16]

you know what guys, I'm damn glad to know other have like minds. I love everybody and genuinely think well of all.

[NumbskullsX2 24]

We're pretty confident she wasn't sending them pointless, vicious emails, either.

Some people reading the above statement may get the idea that I've sent you such emails.

 

I want the record to be VERY clear on one thing- I have NEVER corresponded with you in ANY way, including email, other than what has been posted publicly on this forum.

[SCcpl40 74]

We're in the same region and have been to some of the same organizations...have you found them to be segregated in any way? We just didn't get that vibe when we were up there.

 

What have your experiences been like with this issue?

 

Some of our best interracial meetings have been through CF and SS, never a problem, what our issue is, couples that read our profile have issues with our no racial exclusions and exclude us on that reason alone.

 

Hate we haven't had the pleasure of meeting you guys there or any where else.

[Tybee Swing 286]

Some of our best interracial meetings have been through CF and SS

 

Oh, good! I would have hated to think that these organizations had those issues...we were so impressed with them!

 

what our issue is, couples that read our profile have issues with our no racial exclusions and exclude us on that reason alone.

 

They're probably excluding us too, because we have certs on our profile that would let them know that we don't exclude based on race. However, if they're excluding us for who we don't exclude, good riddance! We want to avoid those people, anyway. There are plenty of great people available that we have no worries regarding who doesn't like us. Not everyone will like us; that's just the way it is.

 

Hate we haven't had the pleasure of meeting you guys there or any where else.

 

We don't get out of Savannah, much. Our most recent outings were south, into Jacksonville (Underground Eden). We have to do expensive weekend trips if we go anywhere for the lifestyle, so we kind of limit that. We're definitely going to the meet-up in June in north GA, though. Are you guys going?

[daisy girl 34]

This is such an interesting thread. I think it underscores the difficulty that people have discussing race and defining racism.

 

I think eveyone has physical preferences. I like tall men...a lot . I think having a preference for a certain look is one thing...but if that spills over into not hiring, living next to, going to school with a person, then you have crossed the line into prejudice and racism.

 

I am not offended if someone says they are interested in being with me and really want to know what being with a black woman is like. If the intentions are genuine and not motivated by racist stereotypes, then bring it . But don't expect me to behave a certain way because I am black...

[drziggy 89]

SCcpl40 said:

The one thing we enjoy about the lifestyle is the sexual freedom and variety it offers. To be with other couples from different backgrounds, and ages gives us a broad spectrum of the human race. We have been lucky enough to meet and become friends with just about every ethnic group and the rewards of knowing them intimately have given us a better understanding of ourselves.

 

What's odd, in different parts of this country being with certain ethnic groups seems to be taboo. What's your take?

 

Racism can be equated to "racing or ethnic cleansing", an attempt by individuals, or groups, to see themselves as superior to others. Although racism exists in every part of the world, it seems to be quite prevalent in certain areas of the U.S.

 

Swingers share the same attitudes and stereotypes with any other social group, hence it isn't surprising that ethnic discrimination is practice by some.

 

Discrimination comes out of fear and it is always predicated on an attempt to secure resources and territory. Moreover, fear is often born of ignorance or superstition, or misplaced low self-esteem.

 

I agree with your comment that sharing and experiencing other ethnic or racial groups can only add to a person's positive experiences and understanding of the world around us. Remember that sex is sex regardless of whom you having it with, each person brings with him/her a special and unique approach to the experience.

 

As the French say "Vive la difference".

 

Cheers!

[Chicup 38]

Racism can be equated to "racing or ethnic cleansing", an attempt by individuals, or groups, to see themselves as superior to others. Although racism exists in every part of the world, it seems to be quite prevalent in certain areas of the U.S.

 

I think the US, even the certain parts of the US is far less racist than the world as a whole. We go so far out of our way at times to avoid thinking/talking in terms of race it can get ridiculous. My local news will give a suspect description in a crime, and often wont' even mention the race.

 

Discrimination comes out of fear and it is always predicated on an attempt to secure resources and territory. Moreover, fear is often born of ignorance or superstition, or misplaced low self-esteem.

 

As an evolutionary biologist I disagree. I think racism is just another one of our natural way we create out groups which 'protect' our local DNA. Undoubtedly there are psychological reasons for some, but its a basic genetic protectionism at work I think. This doesn't make it 'right' it just makes it natural, same as murder and war.

[cubnamy1995 124]

We grew up in an area that was 100% white for 300 miles in any direction. I was 20 years old before I ever saw anyone of a different skin color in person. It never occurred to us to be racist because we had nothing to judge anything on. Because we never were really exposed to different cultures growing up, I think that it is an fun and interesting thing for us to want to experience lovers of different cultures now. We're not racist, we're ignorant. We want to learn all we can.

 

As I white man, I am very attracted to darker-skinned women. So is my wife. Amy has a thing for latinas. Racist? No, she just likes what she likes. I love black women, ever since I watched Pam Grier movies as a kid. Oh, I would give my left nut for a romp with Alicia Keys...I digress.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that we are neither just "people are people" or "fetish" about it. We just like the variety is all.

[morethanmarried 12]

It is tiresome and incredibly incorrect to try to apply the term of racism to this very personal issue. I know I speak for tons of people who, although not biased in even the smallest way in their daily lives, have absolutely no interest in extending that understanding yo having actual sexual relations (the most intimate of acts) with someone from another race. We also realize that many people just do not like the feel of different hair, etc., even with the lights off. It just makes better sense from a variety of perspectives not to intermix races at all.

 

One must wonder whether there are swinger or dating sites like this that are, intentionally or not, black-oriented with understood, genuine preferences to not see whites intermingle. (And yes, we use the terms "black" and "white" rather than today's supposedly more correct, yet clumsy and often-inaccurate, "African American" and "Caucasion" monikers. (Has no one yet ever stopped to realize that NOT EVERYONE with black skin has African ancestory? How are folks from other places like Jamaica (and even Europe) supposed to feel when society has randonly elected to assign a different nationality to them just because it was convenient to do so? If we did use terms like "Jamaican American" it would make better sense anyway, as the name would reflect their ancestors' true COUNTRY of origin and not cop out with a convenient catch-all CONTINENT term!) (duh)

 

Too many issues. Too many agendas. And much too much complication that can interfere with the very freedom that brings us to this lifestyle... The majority of white people whom we know have absolutely NO interest in race-mixing. If nothing else, it is much simpler and much more honest to just leave well enough alone and stick with your own kind. It's really not rocket science, and it is something that historically had always been the unquestioned norm. Why have some suddenly decided over the past several years that doing the opposite is now the norm? It simply is not true.

[crazycatz 17]

morethanmarried said:

Too many issues. Too many agendas. And much too much complication that can interfere with the very freedom that brings us to this lifestyle... The majority of white people whom we know have absolutely NO interest in race-mixing. If nothing else, it is much simpler and much more honest to just leave well enough alone and stick with your own kind. It's really not rocket science, and it is something that historically had always been the unquestioned norm. Why have some suddenly decided over the past several years that doing the opposite is now the norm? It simply is not true.

 

That is one of the most racist statements I've seen expressed in a LONG time! What kind of logic is that??? Historically, Jews have been persecuted and Africans were sold into slavery....just because it's part of history we should keep doing it? Jesus in the garden, the mind boggles.

[SCcpl40 74]

It is tiresome and incredibly incorrect to try to apply the term of racism to this very personal issue. I know I speak for tons of people who, although not biased in even the smallest way in their daily lives, have absolutely no interest in extending that understanding yo having actual sexual relations (the most intimate of acts) with someone from another race. We also realize that many people just do not like the feel of different hair, etc., even with the lights off. It just makes better sense from a variety of perspectives not to intermix races at all.

 

Racial discrimination is differences in treatment of people on the basis of characteristics which may be classified as racial, including skin color, cultural heritage, and religion.

 

Denial, apathy, and ignorance often lead people to believe that their stance is OK. It doesn't matter who's making the assertion Red, Yellow, Black or White, it's a fact that if you're excluding on the basis of color alone, you're racist. Don't get offensive if you're labeled for doing exactly that.

 

The lifestyle has an opportunity to be more open and not exclude people based on all types of discrimination, age, color, religion, social status, and education.

 

It's OK to base your preferences on compatibility both mental and physical, but you can only do that if either you meet face to face or if a person's profile is complete enough to clearly see that.

[daisy girl 34]

It is tiresome and incredibly incorrect to try to apply the term of racism to this very personal issue. I know I speak for tons of people who, although not biased in even the smallest way in their daily lives, have absolutely no interest in extending that understanding yo having actual sexual relations (the most intimate of acts) with someone from another race. We also realize that many people just do not like the feel of different hair, etc., even with the lights off. It just makes better sense from a variety of perspectives not to intermix races at all.

 

Unfortunately, it is attitudes such as the one expressed above that prevent America from maximizing the resources of ALL of its citizens. It is only when different perspectives are provided that we see real growth and development.

 

I prefer to "mix" with good, kind, and decent human beings who are insightful enough to value my true gifts and potential regardless of race.

 

I am fortunate to have a variety of friends and swing partners from different cultures/races/ethnicities. These partnerships have enrich my life and increased my knowledge of the world.

 

Closemindedness is fine...but don't assume that everyone else expouses such narrow-minded and 18th century views. Interestingly, the old "people prefer their own kind" argument has been used to justify segregating children, denying women jobs, and a host of other societal indignations.

[two4youinswva 3,067]

If nothing else, it is much simpler and much more honest to just leave well enough alone and stick with your own kind.

We do try to stick with our own kind. Our "kind" being fun couples that are enjoyable to be around, and that enjoy our company as well. Flavors may vary.

 

It's really not rocket science, and it is something that historically had always been the unquestioned norm. Why have some suddenly decided over the past several years that doing the opposite is now the norm? It simply is not true.

 

Historically, monogamous marriage has been the expectation and the norm. Why challenge it?

 

 

Oh, btw, welcome to the board!

[hamlet 53]

You go, daisy girl! Opening yourself up to relationships with people of all races is certain to improve not only the quality of your sex life, but the quality of your life in general.

 

As I said in a previous post, people have a right to their preferences. And, if it happens that someone prefers not to have sex with black or white people because they don't find the physical characteristics of that particular race to be appealing, that seems just as valid as a decision to exclude blondes, or short people, or men with beards (like me), or whoever it is that doesn't turn you on. Or you can exclude people of a particular race (as Greg and Sheryl do) because you've tried swinging with them and your experiences just haven't been good. But when someone makes a decision not to have sex with black or white people BECAUSE they're black or white, that seems to me to be the essence of racism.

[The Fuse 1,012]

Boy, this thread sure has degenerated.

 

My husband and I are both white. Before swinging, neither of us had ever been with a black person. Now, we have each been with multiple black people. We weren't seeking them because they are black, but when they contacted us (in all but one case where we contacted a mixed couple), we decided whether to meet them the same way we've decided on potential playmates who were white. Are they attractive? Intelligent? Funny? Good company?

 

Is it natural? Yes, at least for us, because we think that basically people are people. Cultural differences matter to us more than color. Attraction is based on many things, and I felt that skin color shouldn't matter any more than other physical characteristics. But it *is* a physical characteristic, and so it does matter in swinging.

 

Once I was with a black man, I discovered how nice their skin feels. This is a natural difference and part of the attraction for me...and a real surprise, one of the great things about swinging. I also really dig the whole "ebony and ivory" visual when I am with him, as I am pale and he is pretty dark. So I think that covers the "natural" part of the OP's question.

 

Is it a taboo? Not for me, but for some people I am sure that's true. The whole Mandingo thing is a good example of that: parties where black men are invited to fuck white women while their husbands watch. It's a fetish which I think is rooted in feelings I wouldn't want to see expressed up close. Personally I think this is twisted for all the participants, but they are going to do what they are going to do.

[JustAskJulie 2,588]

Something that happened this weekend brought this thread to the forefront of our minds. We met a couple at the club that seemed like a great couple. We had fun with them, then we got home and looked up their profile on SLS and what did it say?

 

"We are D&D Free and prefer to stay in our own race. We require that couples we meet feel the same way".

 

After reading their profile there was more than just that one red flag, but that one was enough. Had we seen their profile before meeting them we never would have contacted them or played with them... and from the looks of it they never would have played with us either, since we don't feel the same way.

[readytoplay105 12]

We believe it is our constitutional rights to be able to socialize and play with whoever we want. So we are not violating our constitutional rights by not playing with Afro Americans or whoever else we may not want to.

[WesternSwing 504]

As an evolutionary biologist I disagree. I think racism is just another one of our natural way we create out groups which 'protect' our local DNA. Undoubtedly there are psychological reasons for some, but its a basic genetic protectionism at work I think. This doesn't make it 'right' it just makes it natural, same as murder and war.

Although I don't have the education credentials to argue this point, I have to say that from life experience and observation nobody is born racist. I truly feel that prejudice and racism is a learned response.

[VegasLee 1,486]

Chicup,

 

I will be the first to admit that I don't have an formal education anything close to yours and I admire you for that.

 

When it comes to kids I do believe that I have enough experience to step up on the subject. Six kids, eight grandkids.

 

None of our kids ever distrusted anyone until they got older and we told them there are things in this world you need to watch out for. (Don't take candy from strangers, don't get in cars of people you don't know, etc.)

 

We also found that when a behavior starts suddenly, there is a reason for it. Normally kids do not just start reacting different to people or anything else without a reason. Kids learn from their surroundings. Distrust is also a learned trait.

[SCcpl40 74]

Chicup said:

Do you have children?

 

My 3 year old distrusts anyone until he gets used to them being around and knows we as parents are ok with them. Nothing has EVER happened to him ever but its an innate fear of someone strange. It started suddenly around 2.5 years old. He knew 'us' and 'not us'.

 

CHILDREN'S SOCIAL ACCEPTANCE has been linked to success in school in a number of studies in the United States. Compared with children who have lower social acceptance, children who enjoy the high social acceptance of their peers tend to achieve higher academic grades ( Green, Forehand, Beck, & Vosk, 1980; Wentzel, 1991, 1993), are more cooperative and responsible, and have greater leadership skills ( Brophy & Evertson, 1981; Coie & Dodge, 1983; Kedar-Voivodas , 1983; Wentzel, 1991)

[ourrockstarlife 15]

LikeMinds321 said:

Taboo?

 

Where have you lived that you found this to be so?

 

Around these parts there is no "taboo" talk goin' round. The forums on ad sites we belong to never talk about any race being a no-no. In fact, quite the opposite. Swingers openly discuss their preferences in playmates, whether it be the details of what they look like, how they like to play, what their kinks are, whether they are bikers, bowlers, or sports fans, whether they like to travel, barbeque and make "friends first" before they get down to sex, and sometimes they say they are really turned on by certain ethnic groups. No one objects to hearing any of this.

 

This thread has redirected itself to the same old issue of racism, and I think it's turning away from your original question...unless the purpose of your OP was to get a discussion on racism going?

 

 

DJ and I have a couple that we LOVE who just happen to be interracial. They have said that they have a real problem finding playmates. The male half of the couple is convinced it is because he is black. I think he is right. We live in Virginia, and I really think regional attitudes effect the swinger community just as they do the vanilla community

 

The way I see it, it's your loss and my gain. Beautiful bodies come in all shades.........

 

On the same note, virility and prowess come in all shades. I have seen black men, white men, Hispanic men, all kinds of men that have no "game" and are disappointing in the sack. Premature ejaculation, erectile dysfunction etc is a MALE problem and does not plague one ethnic persuasion exclusively. There are plenty of white men (DJ included) who have ROCKED my world. Every individual KNOWS what they are attracted to and should not be expected to compromise. If you happen to be a white female that is EXCLUSIVELY attracted to black men.....GOOD FOR YOU! ROCK IT WITH PRIDE!!! However, I would not find it necessary to explain why. If that's what your into, do it til your satisfied!

 

And the same goes for all you freeky folks that make this lifestyle what it is.

 

[Chicup 38]

We feel there is a difference between shyness, which is a social characteristic, and distrust, which is a fear-based reaction.

 

Its an evolved defensive reaction. There is no 'reason' to be shy any more than reason to be distrustful. Its really the same thing. Children will see a strange man approaching (me) and reach to be picked up by their mothers, or not move and make very little noise.

 

The survival implications are obvious.

[Greg & Sheryl 368]

Its an evolved defensive reaction. There is no 'reason' to be shy any more than reason to be distrustful. Its really the same thing. Children will see a strange man approaching (me) and reach to be picked up by their mothers, or not move and make very little noise.

 

The survival implications are obvious.

We are suggesting that shyness is more of a personality characteristic than it is a defensive reaction. Some children are naturally more gregarious than others. Although it makes us uncomfortable, it's not unusual for some strange kids to initiate conversations with us when we're out in public. Are you suggesting that children who aren't shy about approaching strangers are somehow less evolved?

 

For the record, we don't have any children together, but Greg has two children from a previous marriage who were born one year apart. The boy was the shy one while the girl was the gregarious one.

[cocpl2007 170]

ethnicity isn't a criteria for us, attraction is attraction!

[prettylady 221]

If people from different races weren't suppose to have sex with on another, then our parts wouldn't fit. The whole square peg round hole thing. But since they are all round pegs and round holes, then sex is meant to happen between races

 

Crude analogy, but it works.

 

[jujusgoodies 15]

I am white and my partner is black and I've found that in the south as a swinging interracial couple sometimes our choices for play partners are limited. I have started purposely seeking out interracial couples just to avoid the rejection from, pardon if I offend as no offense is meant, all white couples AND all black couples. I believe some stigma is associated with it, especially so in the south and smaller cities and communities. We've gone to clubs where the rejection is not as open and we did have a great time, however, the best times we have had were at private parties where the majority of those invited were mixed couples. The thing that gets to me is that as swingers, we should all be more open to different backgrounds, choices, and personalities and something as "simple" as color should not be so controversial. But then again if it doesn't turn you on, it doesn't turn you on and we just have to let it go.

[Greg & Sheryl 368]

If people from different races weren't suppose to have sex with on another, then our parts wouldn't fit.

Nice point. We all share the same DNA, so unless we are talking about the survival of our species (which is why we are usually willing to defend our offspring to the death), we can't buy into Chicup's "genetic protectionism" theory. There is a social predisposition to be more protective of those who are closer to you (i.e. friends, neighbors, countrymen), but that has nothing to do with genetics.