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SharperEdge69

Bisexuality in Swinging

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Originally posted by stratecpl:

"Jem...Why do I proclaim it so often? Because this is unfortunantly the only place I have to vent about it. The people I mentioned in another post who call me homophobic are the ones who contact us and give us the problems that we talk about...they try to talk us into it, we decline they call us homophobes."

 

These people you talk about are jerks, plain and simple. I would never DREAM of calling someone names because they didn't want to have sex with me. (whether they were male or female). However, it still stands that when you paint ALL people who are not 100% straight with the same brush (such as implying it is not natural) you do come across as somewhat insulting to the many people out there who are bi (to any extent) or gay.

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LOL...Dan...you know this has been a very interesting day..a day of unbelievable extremes for me....

 

First in the real world..I go to the gym this morning and get called a lesbian by a guy who obviously is not very receptive to women lifting weights or invading "His" world..haha THEN I get home and come here to my cyber connection to the other world..The swingers world and get called a homophobe...Talk about extremes! Pardon me while I curl up in the fetal position for awhile...haha

 

Connie

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Ok...maybe this is what I should have done before this got so "Out there" Would somebody please define Homophobe to me?? In all honesty I don't have a full grasp of what it means..it's a word I hear thrown around very often obviously, and apparently it's meant as an insult....but truthfully I REALLY don't know exactly what a homophobe is.

 

Connie

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Well, Connie, to me the simplest definition of "homophobe" is someone who believes that anyone who is not straight is less than, just because they are not straight.

 

A lesser person, a less good person, a less natural person, a less worthy person, etc.

 

So this is why I think the posts about the "natural" way being men pursuing women and vice versa come across as being homophobic. It is implying that people who are bi or gay are less natural than people who are straight. And if natural is taken to mean "good" it is also implying that they are not as good as straight people.

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I think this can some up people's feeling about this. I for one am straight and do meet couples. Since I started doing this, and thankfully a woman in this lifestyle schooled me so to speak, I get to know people first and find out if was are compatible. Then I found out what they want/boundries and I tell them mine. Then I don't cross it or beg the question again. I've been told once. I have met a couple where the hubby did oral to a guy cause it got the woman off however I did not want this and they were comfortable with it and honestly I think the hubby was actually relieved but that is a side note. Today however I got this extremely close-minded individual IMing me on Yahoo. The word open-minded has been thrown around a lot here and if you watch, many of the same issues come up in my IM during which I politely declined stating why but his persistence led to my anger and defensiveness. I think that is what the straight couples here are getting at. They are openmined to what others do but they don't want it forced on them because an apparent majority of the swinging population do engage in something they would rather not. (please excuse the length)

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ddikr69: Hi

rocco701: wassup..

ddikr69: not much

ddikr69: what about you?

rocco701: just chatting with potential partner for fun..

ddikr69: would that be me?

rocco701: that would be cool..

ddikr69: what kind of partner are you looking for?

rocco701: telll me your stats..

ddikr69: curious cause not much in on your profile

rocco701: and what are you into..

rocco701: 27, 5'11", 165#, very god looks, 6.5", cut....u?

ddikr69: 23, 5'10", 170#, good looks, 6 cut.

ddikr69: you do realize that I'm a guy right?

rocco701: yes... am bi..

ddikr69: ah

ddikr69: I see

rocco701: like to have fun..

ddikr69: what site did you find my screen name at?

rocco701: some kind of swingers's site in Central Illinois..

ddikr69: ah

ddikr69: I'm in a few of those

rocco701: where are you located at?.

ddikr69: quit a few too

ddikr69: chicago

ddikr69: you?

rocco701: central illinois..but frequent Chicago a lot..i might be there this coming Fri..if not,next week..

rocco701: maybe we can hook up..

ddikr69: thats cool

ddikr69: thing is

ddikr69: I prefer to meet couples

rocco701: would love to orally service you discreetly in my hotel room..

ddikr69: and I'm not bi

rocco701: i like straight guys...openminded ones...most guys i orally serviced and hooked up with me ar straight guys..they love the way i deepthroat them into completio...we just have to be discreet..

rocco701: been sucked by a guy before?..

ddikr69: I met a woman from Central IL that does that....she was good

ddikr69: no I haven't

rocco701: need to experience it at least once..just like all other guys..

ddikr69: may I ask why?

rocco701: i believe i do it better than anyone else..that's what these guys all told me..they can't believe i really can suck well....of course am selective..

rocco701: they say am better than any girl they had before..

ddikr69: so then you're a hoover

rocco701: lol..

ddikr69: you would have to be pretty good

rocco701: i must like the guy first...talk to him..build that desire....then meet for a drink..get horny in my room by waching a porn movie..then hed lie back and would show him the best oral service..

ddikr69: that sounds good but let me tell you this

ddikr69: I met one couple and the wife got off of her hubby sucking guys cocks

rocco701: i would use that figure of 8 technique where i would twirl my tongue around it while i suck you deep and slow with my tight warm lips around your hard cock..

ddikr69: suffice to say he didn't suck mine

ddikr69: and from the looks of it only did it to satisfy her

ddikr69: done that before

ddikr69: thats nothing new

rocco701: that was no good then...

ddikr69: no

ddikr69: meeting them was great

ddikr69: but the guy wasn't going to be sucking my dick

ddikr69: and they still want to see me again

rocco701: we'll maybe you need to experience it once from mme..and you'd see..but it's up to you...had few offers...2 lined up for me when i go there...some young curious guys...who loves oral and their gf and wife can't do the job..they saw my ad ..and been trying to hook up with me..

ddikr69: well I'm sure they'll enjoy you

rocco701: ..maybe you're cool..and have a nice cock..so they like you..

ddikr69: cause I for one never saw your ad

ddikr69: are you saying these other guys would suck me off?

rocco701: i placed my ad discreetly at Yahho personals..in " females seeking males"...but later on went to say..that i am actually a bi male....they like that ..the guys...can't believe so many of them are curious about being sucked by a guy like me...so i had many responders..mostly straight curious guys..

ddikr69: cause in actuality

ddikr69: sexuality is in the mind

ddikr69: its what you care to do or not to do

rocco701: iwould love to give you a great bj discreetly in my hotel ..if you like to try ...we can meet for a drink...andtake it from there...

ddikr69: doubtful

ddikr69: cause I'm supposed to be hearing from a couple about Saturday anyway

rocco701: no obligations..

ddikr69: oh I know that

ddikr69: but like I said before

ddikr69: I prefer couples

ddikr69: straight couples

rocco701: cool..i am also meeting a couple...guy is bicurious...gf wants to watch her hubby being serviced by me..

ddikr69: Let me ask you this though....you ever hear of kewlgirl36?

rocco701: nope..why?

ddikr69: jsut wondering

rocco701: why?..whois she?.

ddikr69: no one...

rocco701: k..

rocco701: still there?

ddikr69: yep

rocco701: so tell me some hot encounters you have..

ddikr69: well that one couple that has a hubby that sucks guys off for the wife

ddikr69: they were real cool

ddikr69: wife gave great head

ddikr69: really responsive to my oral too

rocco701: did he suck you too?

ddikr69: no

ddikr69: she flipped me out when she licked my ass...that was cool...she was really into that

ddikr69: they were really vocal too...

ddikr69: him asking her if she liked my dick

ddikr69: I got into it

ddikr69: so I did the same

rocco701: hmm.hot...do they look good?.

ddikr69: asking her while I'm eating her if she liked it

ddikr69: yeah there were good looking

ddikr69: she had a pierced nipple too

rocco701: cool..

ddikr69: it was cut shorter than I would have liked

ddikr69: cause they had a flight to catch in the morning

ddikr69: wanted to go a 2nd or 3rd round

rocco701: met one couple last March...he fucked her GF doggie..while i was underneath licking her clit...

ddikr69: you mean licking hi,m

ddikr69: m

ddikr69: I've thought about that

ddikr69: but its too close to the guy

ddikr69: and there are other ways to get the woman off

rocco701: he aslo wanted me to suck him..so he would put his cock in my mouth...the putit back her pussy..fuck her..then i'd lick his balls whilehe's pumpin....they loved it.

ddikr69: see thats why I wouldn't do it

ddikr69: worried that guy might "slip"

rocco701: LOL..

ddikr69: I wouldn't find it funny

rocco701: need to be openminded dude..

ddikr69: cause that would crass the established line

ddikr69: you know

ddikr69: I see openminded thrown around a lot

ddikr69: and what people really mean to say is

rocco701: most guys who swing are..

ddikr69: actually they're not

ddikr69: and openminded in the swing community has become "try it/do it cause everyone in swinging is

ddikr69: when everyone has a preference

ddikr69: and truly openminded people respect that preference

rocco701: they don't have to be gay...they're the ones who are very comfortable with their sexuality..regardless who gives them a bj..as long as it's GOOD..

ddikr69: and don't force it on people

rocco701: i know...

ddikr69: comfortable with sexuality is one thing

ddikr69: knowing who you want to be with sexually is another

ddikr69: I am comfortable being straight

rocco701: i hear yah..

ddikr69: I am comfortable with others being gay or bi

rocco701: cool..

ddikr69: but I am not comfortable with people forcing the idea that I am bi on me because I engage in an activity were ther are bi people involved

ddikr69: and it seems the thing to do

rocco701: am not saying that...i think you migh be bi ..but just refusing the idea because you don't want to be labeled as such..and become gay...but i think you should know yourself...but i agree..to each his own....you likebeing straight..so be it....thiught you might need to experience it at least once..and fo all....then at least you have an experience..just like all other straight guys..

rocco701: com'on man...chill out...like to have fun right?...

ddikr69: I would not be comfortable with it

ddikr69: and regardless of who found out

ddikr69: I would still know

ddikr69: and if I didn't like it

ddikr69: that would follow me for the rest of my life

ddikr69: and having fun and doing anything under sun are two totally different things

rocco701: i apologize for being insistent....you sound like a fun guy to me...just wished you be openminded to tit..and try it at least once..

ddikr69: thats just it

ddikr69: I am fun

ddikr69: and I am openminded

ddikr69: but just cause I'm openminded for others to do what they feel

ddikr69: does not mean I don't know what I want to do for MY fun

rocco701: and see for yourself...if it feels good..

ddikr69: I'm sure it would feel good

rocco701: oh..com'on..

ddikr69: but the fact that I don't want to be with a man sexually is the point

ddikr69: and you are proving my point about swinging right now

ddikr69: you have it in your head that cause I swing

ddikr69: I am open-minded

rocco701: i'd give you the best bj ever...deepthroatyou..twil my tongue around it...take it all in my mouth ..suck you lovingly..

ddikr69: which to you mean I'll do anything sexually

ddikr69: which is completely and utterly not the case

rocco701: deep and slow..and when you are about to cum..i suck you better and faster...then lock my lips around the base of your cock..taking it all...and would swalllow your whole load..you'd be moaning in pleausre..

ddikr69: I've had women do that

rocco701: am better than them..

ddikr69: I had a woman ready to do that tonight

ddikr69: but something came up

rocco701:

ddikr69: why are you better?

ddikr69: is it cause you have a dick

ddikr69: cause that reason is tired and old

rocco701: see..we should hook up...or maybe watch me do it this coming fri..with someone..and see how i do...then i'd do you if you'd like to try..won't force it on you..

rocco701: i let you stay in the closet...sound like a good idea to you?..

ddikr69: yeah

ddikr69: let me stay in my closet

ddikr69: but you know who migh tlike it

rocco701: then maybe next time ..i'd bring my girl too...we'd both suck you..her around your cock...while i lick your balls..you'd love it..she has a tight pussy...hto girl...she need some hot sex once in a while..

ddikr69: bohica2g3

rocco701: who is she?.

ddikr69: I wouldn't mind meeting the two of you

ddikr69: that is a he

ddikr69: but if we met you would have to respect my boundries

rocco701: is he gay?..

ddikr69: no...curious

ddikr69: wife is not doing it for him

rocco701: am a respectful guy ouside.were sophisticated.....a lil kinky when it comes to this..why not..

ddikr69: cool

ddikr69: then I'll keep you on my messenger

ddikr69: so long as my boundries are respected

rocco701: tell me his stats..we prefer goodlooking people..

rocco701: we are quite goodlooking..

ddikr69: I don't know his

rocco701: k..

rocco701: all people around me are gorgeous looking...so tell me what girl you like i might be able to hook you up...

ddikr69: I haven't seen any of "your" girls

ddikr69: for all I know "your" girls are hideous - inside and out

rocco701: i know of a girl who likes to be double dicked...gorgeous wife..i did not believe first..but she is openminded..

rocco701: LOL..

ddikr69: explain this

ddikr69: why is openmindes equated to being bi?

rocco701: we'll meet sometime...so you know i am not bullshitting..

ddikr69: well honestly I thnk you are

rocco701: i think i like to enjoy both..

ddikr69: cause every couple I've has had a full profile

ddikr69: ok

ddikr69: so if you enjoy it

ddikr69: what makes you think everyone else does?

rocco701: thought you might be bi curious..sorry i misspoke...

ddikr69: for all you know that fact that a guy is hitting on me for sexual encounters makes me want to beat your ass for even insinuating that I am gay or bi

rocco701: LOL..

ddikr69: I have no clue what gave you that idea

rocco701: i think i hit a nreve there..i apologize..LOL..

ddikr69: you hit one a long time ago

rocco701: see?..you should be just laugin at my insinuations...

ddikr69: I was intially

ddikr69: but then when I said no

ddikr69: you kept pressing

rocco701: what i am saying is that i think you need to meet more couple..more people...and be openminded...and gradually i think you can be openminded in this kind of fun..

ddikr69: that crossed the line

ddikr69: if that wasn't elitist I don't know what is

rocco701: sorry man..but i think i like you..in the way you are being cocky...

ddikr69: you know bi and openminded for you are synonymous

ddikr69: you haven't even seen me

ddikr69: Look

ddikr69: just the way you have been so pushy with me is a turn off from even meeting you with your gf/wife

rocco701: i like you being argumentative about it...maybe we can hook up...maybe we get to like each other....maybe after all...we can hang out and see what happens..how about that?.

ddikr69: and the fact you keep pushing this open-minded/bi stance that everyone in the swinging community is offensive

ddikr69: How about no

ddikr69: and remove me from your Friends list cause I'm doing the same

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Hey SharperEdge--

 

I agree that guy you were messaging with was a total ass. However, he was not an ass because he was bi! He was an ass for not respecting your wants.

 

I like a LOT of flirting, "seducing," etc. before I play. We talked with this guy via email before we met and TOLD him that's what we liked. He did none of it, and then ALL NIGHT proceeded to ask things like "So when we gonna fuck?" When I made it clear I was NOT interested, he hounded me with "but you are a swinger!" "what is your problem?" etc. etc. ad nauseum. He would not leave until we threatened to call the police.

Was he an ass because he was straight? Because he was a single guy? I think not...I think he was an ass because he was an ass!!

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Originally posted by Jem:

Well, Connie, to me the simplest definition of "homophobe" is someone who believes that anyone who is not straight is less than, just because they are not straight.

 

A lesser person, a less good person, a less natural person, a less worthy person, etc.

 

So this is why I think the posts about the "natural" way being men pursuing women and vice versa come across as being homophobic. It is implying that people who are bi or gay are less natural than people who are straight. And if natural is taken to mean "good" it is also implying that they are not as good as straight people.

 

Thanks for the definition...and also/..haha RON was the one who made the post about men pursuing women so I'll let him handle that with you... Ok..MY stance..I Don't think bi or gay people are less than or not as good as...my stance is that I PREFER being str8 and I resent those bi or gay people who are trying to push their sexuality at me. As for being natural? That's an individual thing..what is Natural for one person is not necessarily natural for another...least that's the way I see it.. so bisexuality in that sense is unnatural for Me because I don't have a desire to be bisexual..but it's natural for people who do have that desire ..following me here?

 

Ok...That's Connie's view...remember that. haha

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Jem-I like you and you have a gentler way of saying the same basic thing than I do.

 

Dan-OK. I find that difficult to imagine (sex with a strange man being JUST as repulsive as sex with ones own Mother) But you have not backed down once on your meaning so obviously you feel that way!

 

Stratecpl, etc-You proclaim your straightness ad naseum...in your screen name, in all your posts, etc. You honestly must have had some horrific and traumatizing experiences to be SO uncomfortable with anyone who might be a little Bi. I'm sorry that has happened to you.

 

Homophobia: In the past few days I have read posts saying it is SHAMEFUL there are not more straight couples in swinging.....That bisexuality is akin to incest....and so on. When I mentioned homophobia, one of you posted proudly that you were called that every day. These are a few examples of what I would consider homophobia, biphobial, what have you.

 

There is a huge difference in being who you are and not letting others sway you, to being of mind you are better than others and you need to proclaim your glorious straightness to the world!

 

AND if you think I am prejudiced, I say the exact same thing every time a Gay Pride march is on T.V.!!

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Liza,

 

If I remember right, we keep bringing this subject up, over and over, because people make deliberate statements concerning us and swinging. You make statements, I answer.... that simple. You say that we just keep right on bringing it up. Well, that why....

 

If you feel that we're saying it's shameful, then think again. If you do things that you don't find offensive, that's your way. But what might be normal to you just might be offensive to me.

 

It's all about PREFERENCES.

 

Ron, Husband of Stratecpl

 

 

 

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Stratecpl-I guess it is just that you protest so vocally about being straight. This was a subject started to discuss Bisexuality in swinging and most specifically the double standard between men-bi and women-bi. Maybe this would have been a good one for you to sit out, instead of letting us all know once again that you are so straight you are repulsed by the touch of someone of the same sex...........It just gets real old

 

SharperEdge-If that Internet conversation with that bi man was so annoying to you, why did you carry it on so long? On the rare occasion I am on Yahoo as my real self (with pic and lifestyle described in profile) I get IM's constantly from men and the conversation is like 2 or 3 lines then they are closed, ignored and done. If you continue to talk (or let someone else talk to you) in that sexually provacative manner, they quite possibly will get the idea you are interested. He probably thought you were bi-curious but just need a little prodding, since you kept on talking to him as he described his dick-sucking skills!

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JEM,

 

You sound pretty cool in your writing. I admire that, really. Conversation is always more natural and sensible when it's worded like real people speak, not like the accusing attitudes of SOME that we see....

 

I do want to discuss a couple of things, though.

 

First, that "gray area" that you mentioned. We don't have a gray area. We just do not do it.... period. If some of you other posters on here are offended by my statements, then you'll just have to get over that. We are not going to "try bi" at anytime, not now, not ever.

 

This "evolving" that is spoken of.... OK, so we might have evolved in a manner. You see, we grew more resentful of people wanting to force their ways on us.

 

This forum is for anyone to post, whether they be gay, lesbian, BI, or straight. I don't recall seeing the connotation "straights need not reply" on this thread. Liza, that's why I'm here, to make damn sure that neither you nor anyone else thinks that BI is in my blood. We have BI friends and we love them to death. We also know some who I'd personally love to strangle. It's not about being afraid of a BI person, I'm not afraid of ANYone. I'm just not doing the BI thing with them, and they need not ask. So whoever it was that wondered why in the first place that we dared to post on this thread, that's my answer to you.

 

Is there someone on here who absolutely resents me or my wife? Should we be allowed to be here, to post here? Come on, speak up RIGHT NOW or else let it drop. I'm really getting tired of having to defend my beliefs on here to people who honestly cannot read a damn simple statement made by another poster without distorting his or her intent!!!!

 

Liza, I really don't know what your problem is, but if you want to take it up off of this forum, e-mail me at my given e-mail address which is right up there on my profile.

 

SharperEdge, that was a great post you made and I thank you for putting it up here. We get badgered all the time by people who are extremely pushy, too. We don't enjoy getting ugly with them but sometimes they leave us no choice whatsoever. They really ARE assholes....

 

Ron, Husband of Stratecpl

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Originally posted by Jem:

Well, Connie, to me the simplest definition of "homophobe" is someone who believes that anyone who is not straight is less than, just because they are not straight.

 

 

Wrong-o, my friend. "Phobic" is defined as having an irrational fear of something. Straights aren't afraid of bi and gay people, we just don't want to be pidgeon holed by those who think there's something wrong with us because we're attracted to the opposite gender, and only the opposite gender.

 

Dan

 

 

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Originally posted by LIZA:

 

Dan-OK. I find that difficult to imagine (sex with a stange man being JUST as repulsive as sex with ones own Mother) But you have not backed down once on your meaning so obviously you feel that way!

 

 

Hello, is this thing on???

 

Me having sex with any man, strange or otherwise, is just as repulsive to me as incest. I-hope-I-made-that-clear-to-you. And no, I make no apologies for feeling that way.

 

Now, can you delineate that from someone being judgemental about what other people prefer sexually? I sure do hope so.

 

Now I suppose I need some of that 'ole sensitivity training?

 

Dan

 

 

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Originally posted by LIZA:

Stratecpl-I guess it is just that you protest so vocally about being straight.

 

Jesus H!!! What he and I are protesting is being made to feel as though something is wrong with us for being straight!!

 

Dan

 

 

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Originally posted by Stratecpl:

LOL...Dan...you know this has been a very interesting day..a day of unbelievable extremes for me....

 

First in the real world..I go to the gym this morning and get called a lesbian by a guy who obviously is not very receptive to women lifting weights or invading "His" world..haha THEN I get home and come here to my cyber connection to the other world..The swingers world and get called a homophobe...Talk about extremes! Pardon me while I curl up in the fetal position for awhile...haha

 

Connie

 

That's because you're probably in far better shape than him. Some guys have fragile egos, I'm afraid.

 

There seems to be some reading comprehension problems among a few who post here. At no time did either of us criticize anyone who participates in gay sex, only the fact that some of them don't want to accept the fact we don't. And now Liza thinks I compared bi and gays to people who practice incest.

 

Man oh man, I know the public school system has gone south, but...I took great care to word my posts precisely so I wouldn't be misunderstood.

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Dan-I accept the fact that you find bisexuality as repulsive as incest. You don't need to explain or apologize. It was just a rather shocking thing to say (to my eyes, anyway)

 

To the rest of the vocally straight here, I have not lived your experiences in swinging. But I have certainly had to turn down, change my mind about and generally blow-off MANY MANY people who wanted to do something I was not into. Whether it be bi-sex or anal sex or what have you, we all have certain things or certain people that don't much turn us on. I think it just SEEMS like you come here with a much bigger chip on your shoulder being straight.

 

In almost 5 years of this, we have been pestered, pushed, pawed and made uncomfortable many times.......believe me you are not the only ones

 

And Dan, I am flattered you think my public school education came THAT much later than yours but I kind of doubt you are too much older than I am

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As far as avowed straight people not posting on the subject of bisexuality in swinging......This was my thinking on it. Many times in here I have seen posts from a couple who wanted to set up a gang-bang. Me, personally, I find the idea of a MMMMMF gang-bang rather horrifying. I doubt I would ever participate in one. So I don't comment on their posts! I dont post NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL, NO WAY, NOT ME!!!

 

It is not part of my lifestyle so I just don't say a word, because what could I offer?

 

Make sense?

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Liza said: "In almost 5 years of this, we have been pestered, pushed, pawed and made uncomfortable many times.......believe me you are not the only ones"

 

That is true, Liza, very true. It happens to all of us because there are so many assholes out there. But you are not the only one who has been beset by those you've had to turn down. Wh have been their objects many times, too. So has Dan and Janette, so has everyone who posts here. Make no mistake of it, you are not the only one.

 

And I ain't EVEN gonna get started on the translations you've made concerning the education.... LOL

 

Ron, Husband of Stratecpl

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Originally posted by LIZA:

 

And Dan, I am flattered you think my public school education came THAT much later than yours but I kind of doubt you are too much older than I am

 

Just turned 44 last Wednesday. And always straight "A's" in English.

 

Dan

 

 

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Hey LIZA..wanna change this topic and debate on gang-bangs!? That is my fantasy! MMMMMMF ..ok...ok...chill I'm just kidding...about the debate...not the gang bang I really would love to do that sometime.

 

Connie (Who thinks this dead horse has been beat enough)..if you guys all want to carry on..be my guest)

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I too think this topic has been beat about to death, so am not going to say much more, but I must tell Dan...

 

At no time did I say, or mean to imply, that there was ANYTHING wrong with you or anyone else being straight. Again, I believe that you are the sexuality that you are. I would never seek to "change" anyone's sexuality either. I just had issues with bi people being categorized as being somewhat unnatural, that's all.

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Originally posted by Jem:

he hounded me with "but you are a swinger!" "what is your problem?" etc. etc. ad nauseum. He would not leave until we threatened to call the police.

Was he an ass because he was straight? Because he was a single guy? I think not...I think he was an ass because he was an ass!!

 

oh oh oh..... Man I hate that. That is probably one of my biggest pet peeves. Especially with being a swinger AND having an amateur site that shows that side of my life. I constantly get emails from guys assuming that because I swing I am going to jump at the chance to have sex with them just because they are passing through my area.

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Originally posted by LIZA:

This was a subject started to discuss Bisexuality in swinging and most specifically the double standard between men-bi and women-bi.

 

Yes, this was the original question, let's please get back to that question and stop defending why we each CHOOSE our own preferences. AND stop berating people for those choices.

 

The question here was not are you bi and why? It was why is there a double standard about men and women being bi? Even someone who is NOT bi can still have something to say on this.. without going into their own preferences... just as those who are BI can. While there are several straight couples on this board.. I know there are also several couples where the female is bi yet the male (dare I say it..) straight.

 

We each have our own preferences and that is fine, but let's please get back to the topic/question at hand.

 

Why is there such a double standard when it comes to bi-men in this lifestyle not be accepted yet women are expected to be bi?

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I beleive the double standard exists because women are more in touch with there feelings than men are. Of course that is a generalization but one that most professionals that research such things seem to agree on.

 

Go back to high school and remember that girls freely dance with each other. Of course these girls are not all bi or gay, they simply see dancing as a form of expression that does not necessarily constitute sexual expression.

 

When two women greet each other it is often with a hug. Men use good masculine firm handshakes.

 

Women (non swinging or swinging) love to go into a bedroom and try out new outfits with each other. I have never gone into the bedroom with my buddy and asked him his opinion on how my ass looks in these new dockers.

 

What is natural is not a matter of opinion. It is a matter of what is considered normal (IMO). Swinging itself is not natural. I was in the Toledo club when they had a reporter there some 18 years ago and the sex I was engaging in (which was straight by the way) was described in great detail in the sunday front page the next week. Needless to say this aroused great anger from the sanctimonious holier than thou types and the club was closed and laws were passed to insure no clubs could ever open in Toledo again.

 

Lets face it just because you are a swinger does not make you open minded or a great person. I enjoy some occasional oral bi with men because it really turns on my wife and it kinda gives me a taboo type turn on too.

 

As I stated in an earlier post when we place an add for bi men they come out of the woodwork. They say they have never tried it but would love to...especially after hearing the description of my wife. That was a simple observation that I have heard said by others also. Screening is very important in swinging.

 

After following this thread I find that the obvious is displayed. There are straight people that seem to be super sensitive over the bi issue. They think because its not normal then they must proclaim the fact from the highest mountain. Well I have news...swinging ain't normal either.

 

I love analogy's. Lets say that I wore a pink sweater to a motorcycle bar called Hard Times. Maybe three or four people would call me a fag or a sissy or whatever. Now if I were to run around saying that motorcyclists were closed minded and rude and intolerant then that would in fact make me a motorcyclistphobic. The reason would be because I would be grouping people that ride motorcycles into a single negative category.

 

A persons sexual affiliation has nothing to do with there personality. As swingers we should realize that we are not normal but not normal isn't bad. To attack each other because of a few bad experiences by certain people is to bring the lifestyle to a lower degree.

 

I have pride that I am a hard worker and a good father and husband. I am not proud of the fact that I am a swinger or that I enjoy occasional oral bi sex. That would like being proud that I am white.

 

There are many things that I find repulsive sexually but I certainly would not proclaim it as if it made me a better person than those that don't.

 

If you enjoy it and it doesn't hurt anyone then do it. Ignore those that would try to convert you in any way, be it sexual or religious or political if you choose but don't be prejudice and bring down the lifestyle because you are so proud of your sexual affiliation. John

 

 

 

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Guest SierraDenali

I wanted to address the very first thread, about double standards...

 

I would encourage you to go your local bookstore or even connect here on the internet to an author...her name is Nancy Friday.

 

She has written some terrific books about women and their sexuality, and men too.

 

Much of what you're asking has everything to do with how little girls become women and little boys become men, and no matter how hard we try and deviate from those beliefs, we, esp. men, cannot simply change "programming" in middle life.

 

I'm Denali...Sierra is my wife...aka guy talking here!

 

Double standards are very true and you're very correct, but I also know personally, as much as I like sex...including anal sex, there is no way I'm going to allow a man to stick his dick in me. A woman wearing a strap on is as far as I will go. I don't want to sound offensive when I say that. The male body though there are some out there that even turn my head (and if you ask me that in public, I'll deny it), the well-cut atheletes come to my mind, most male bods just don't turn me on...and I'm a guy, and I think alot of us who are men and pretty hip will tell you the same thing.

 

I have no problem with my wife being bi, if I was a woman, I would want to be bi too. Women are by their very nature gorgeous...inside too. I don't care if she's big or skinny...big gals aren't hung up on looks, and I'm thankful for that, because I'm not one of God's prettier children, in fact, I was way back in that line!

 

And I wish I knew how to overcome some of my prejudices, because I despise folks who find fault in me because I am different.

 

Women just turn me on...I like their hearts, their souls, their personalities, and what makes them human beings. Guys just don't do it for me.

 

I would encourage you to read Nancy Friday "Women On Top" and "Men in Love" books. She does a way better job at explaining this than I.

 

And for all of us who won't include men in our personal fantasies, you have my sincere apologies...you're right, but if you were to ask me, I would say, no.

 

SierraDenali

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I think most single males who are desperate to be with a couple where the female is extremely attractive but the hubby is bi, would consider participating in some light bi activity, just to get to fuck the hot wife... I have had an experience like that, I met a couple online and the wife was gorgeous and after chatting for a while they divulged that the hubby as bi...I said I wasn't really into that, but as time went on, I wanted to be with the wife so much that I said I would consider it...(even though I knew I never would, I was just playing along).

 

Well when we did the deed, and he wanted to give me head, I said I really didn't want to, and he was cool with it...He settled for rubbing my balls while she sucked me off and later while she rode me...

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Originally posted by HornyDude20:

I said I would consider it....(even though I knew I never would, I was just playing along)

 

 

Well Dude, you hit my hot button with that one. More phonies and liars this lifestyle doesn't need. Do the rest of us a favor and just jack off next time instead of leading someone on, k?

 

Sincerely,

Dan

 

 

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Why would you lie to people like that?

Can't you get laid any other way?

That's so pathetic!

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Originally posted by LIZA:

Why would you lie to people like that?

Can't you get laid any other way?

That's so pathetic!

 

Cuz I wanted to fuck her..Everybody came away satisfied, so whats the big deal?

 

 

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Originally posted by HornyDude20:

Cuz I wanted to fuck her..Everybody came away satisfied, so whats the big deal?

 

 

The "big deal" is that you LIED. Where ever were you raised that you were taught that it was okay to lie to people in order to get what you want from them? I am not saying I have never told a lie. In fact, I think some lies are okay. If someone says, "Do I look beautiful?" but they don't AND there is nothing they could do that would improve their looks at that time, yes, by all means lie to make them feel good. If someone is going to die unless you lie about something, go ahead and lie.

 

But to lie because you, in your words, "wanted to fuck her"? How very sleazy. How very rude. How very pathetic. The only worse lies I can think of offhand would be to tell someone you love them when you don't just to get them in bed. Or to tell someone you are faithful to them when you are not.

 

You know, maybe if you had come right out and said "hey, I'm straight" they would have been okay with that! And you still could have "fucked her." Maybe they would have found that they liked you enough that it didn't MATTER that you were straight. Hey, I am bi, and while I certainly prefer swinging with other bi-women, I have swung with couples where the woman was straight! And admitted that she was straight beforehand! We just thought they were so cool that it DIDN'T MATTER if I got to play with the woman or not.

 

But we deserved to have them be honest with us UPFRONT and tell us she was straight, not try to lie and say she was bi just so they might have a shot at us. Because they were honest and cool, they will get to swing with us in the future even though she's not bi! Maybe the couple you are talking about would have also decided that they wanted to swing with you anyway, even if you had told them upfront you were straight. Then again, maybe they wouldn't have. And then, no, you wouldn't have gotten to "fuck the hot wife."

 

But at least you would have been honest. If we EVER found out someone had lied to us like that, not only would we NEVER swing with them again, we would also make SURE to inform ANY other swingers we knew to avoid them, as they were lying scum.

 

Do I sound pissed off? I'm sure I do. Swinging is supposed to be about openess and HONEST COMMUNICATION. You struck out there.

 

 

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Guest PCouple

I wonder if it is clear what is bi and what isn't? My wife and I have swung with couples and when I watch my wife getting pleasure from the other guy fucking her it is really the height of my own pleasure. So I like seeing his hard cock because his cock is what gives pleasure to my wife. Is that a little bi on my part to like his hard cock?

 

Also in any group sex where there is more than one male, the male bodies must touch sometime. When we have an MFM and both of us guys suck one tit each of my wife, our male bodies do touch. What feeling does that touching give you? I am not bi, but it does give me a slight sexual feeling.

 

When my friend has fucked one of the women (my wife or his wife) and then I put my cock in the same woman, isn't that me in sexual contact indirectly with my friend?

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canadian couple hit it on the head, one point to add though....the lifestyle has no more phonies than the non lifestyle. Ill bet the majority of us are phonies in some way. We would act differtly than we lead our friends to beleive. Our kids. Our relatives. And lying isnt all bad if it is just to protect judgement from people. But to ly to someone to get something from them is malicious and akin to stealing and cheating.

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to respond to PC couple.

 

Nah fucking your wife after some guy screwed her is not anything like fucking the guy. That's a bit out there.

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Guest PCouple

Thanks michigancouple. Once we were in an MFM with my friend Mal and my wife Fay went to sleep afterwards. Mal and I woke a few minutes later, both with hard-ons again. My wife was deep in sleep in between us. So Mal and I masturbated, just looking at each other and getting stimulation from looking at my wife's lovely naked body. I guess it's not bi for two guys to watch each other wank off, especially if a woman is lying between them!

 

Zac

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Originally posted by Jem:

 

 

Maybe the couple you are talking about would have also decided that they wanted to swing with you anyway, even if you had told them upfront you were straight. Then again, maybe they wouldn't have. And then, no, you wouldn't have gotten to "fuck the hot wife."

 

Do I sound pissed off? I'm sure I do. Swinging is supposed to be about openess and HONEST COMMUNICATION. You struck out there.

 

 

No, swinging is about getting to fuck hot wives..and I hit a home run on that one

 

 

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I think this is a prime example of why single guys have such a bad name in swinging.....

 

No concept of what a couple gets out of it, they just want to screw..... I guess the his age works against him as well.

 

Naydene

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Originally posted by kissyface:

I think this is a prime example of why single guys have such a bad name in swinging.....

 

 

Naydene --

 

This is a prime example of immature assholes having access to the internet. The only hot thing this guy's ever laid is a heating pad.

 

I'd suggest everyone just consider him a turd in the bowl, and hit the flush handle.

 

Dan

 

 

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Zac-

 

Most who are 1000% straight WOULD consider what you did to be "a little bi"

But so what?

People get SO stuck on putting labels on everything and everybody it gets a little silly.........You do what you enjoy and no one gets hurt, so does it really matter where on the BI-Straight scale you or anyone else falls?

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I for one would wager that probably every couple and upstanding single in here in would agree that HornyDude20 is why singles get a bad name, why couples don't meet singles, why singles aren't allowed into clubs.....I could go on. But for all we know that guy could just be a troll trying to get a rise out of us in an already beaten to death and far off topic thread.

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Originally posted by LIZA:

Zac-

 

Most who are 1000% straight WOULD consider what you did to be "a little bi"

 

Liza --

 

"1000% straight"? Do I detect a hint of sarcasm there?

 

Just for the record, I do NOT consider what Zac did even remotely bi, not in the way he described it. He implied it was the sight of his naked wife that encouraged both he and the other male to release a little sexual steam without waking her, not the sight of each other. I've personaly seen another male cum in my presence, during foursomes, as they've seen me. It even inspired some good-natured jokes, since I'm, uhh, kinda loud at THE moment of truth.

 

So despite us guys cumming in the same room, in the same bed, I'm still batting "1000"

 

And proud of it.

 

Dan

 

 

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Delighted to find this board, and this great topic! Actual bisexual man here. Hope I can shed some light based on my own experiences.

Not married, but I have two very nice intimate girlfirends. Mostly "straight" but decidedly more inclusive of men in sensual play in recent years (I'm 40). I am "out" to both lady-friends as bi, and they're both very supportive, even encouraging. I have discovered bisexual play in twosomes, threesomes and foursomes. Although pretty rare, it can be very nice when all parties are open, honest and there's trust and communication beforehand. In fact, when everyone is comfortable, we've found bi male-inclusive encounters to be some of the best sex ever, with everyone (men *AND* women) really having a wonderful, memorable time.

 

Some personal observations: married men within couples seem to have a tougher time with bisexuality. The times we've enjoyed most are almost always with unmarried couples in some sort of committed pairing. Perhaps it's just a societal thing, but when a couple is married there seems to be more fear of being labelled, judged, ridiculed, shamed -- Sad but true... Bisexual women tend to be more accepting and encouraging of bisexuality in men, I've found. Perhaps because they are more fluid with their own sexuality, they seem more OK, even appreciative, of others' sexuality too. In fact, over the years, bisexual women have been the most help to me in coming to terms with my own bisexuality. I am very grateful to them!

 

The swinging community is, for the most part, a great place for women to explore and express their bisexuality; I feel there's really no reason why men might someday enjoy the same freedoms. I've found that many women are quite turned on by man-to-man interaction, and it can be a truly wonderful expression for couples to share in this way.

 

I find no shortage of men who fantasize and are interested in bisexuality. But it does take some level of maturity to really enjoy it, IMHO. I feel many men want to explore with their own gender but are pretty unsure how to actually proceed. It would be nice if the swinging communinty could give more permission for this, as I think that's what's missing at a lot of swing clubs. Hopefully, it's just a matter of time.

 

Yours truly,

 

-- Bi Friend

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I'm afraid it will be a long time. I heard someone mention that they are batting 1000 percent referring to hererosexuality. I guess that means a bi-sexual experience would be analogous to a strike out lol. I have noticed that people that engage in easy conversation and compliment the hell out Tam and I suddenly get silent and do not want to engage in furthur conversation once they realize that we enjoy mixing some oral bi fun with our swinging.

 

The absolutely hilarious example are the whiners that complain that because they are straight people look down on them. Reverse discrimination? I highly doubt it. Maybe they just do not agree that sexual preference is anything at all to be proud of. As I have said, I am a good father, hubby, and worker. My sexual preference is simply a matter of choice that I really have no control over nor wish to. Unless of course it involved harming anyone in any way.

OH well, I still get up to the plate and swing. I just don't keep track.

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It's hard for me to imagine *anyone* -- male or female -- participating in swinging, going to party houses, talking to others about sex, interacting with others sexually/sensually, having actual sex with others, etc., etc... all this without having some sense of one's coservative bubble undergoing a bursting, so to speak... All the sex parties I've ever attended have revealed all kinds of different people to me: short people, tall people, people of all shapes and sizes, all shades of brown and black and gray and white and olive. In fact, NO ONE is exactly like me!! And Everyone is DIFFERENT from me. So how could I possibly have some pre-determined agenda about the sex experiences I seek to have with anyone I happen to meet???

 

The point is what has already been made by others here: I don't think we can have a very good time sexually in swinging if we're not in an open-minded place in ourselves. And the act of swinging strikes me as very very revealing and the open mind can't be far behind when one is being so challenged to overcome our hang-ups. It's a good thing to be challenged, especially about our hang-ups. That, to me, is what's so positive about swinging.

 

-- P.T.

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Originally posted by BiFriend:

It's hard for me to imagine -- P.T.

 

That's exactly where this thread went completely wrong!!! It seems to be hard for anyone to imagine that other people can't/won't share their preferences.

 

When did swinging become the lifestyle for "hardcore" only?

 

Point here is/should be. If you're a bi male. Fine! I'm not. Does this make me any less a "true" swinger. We doubt it. Just as your being bi does not make you less a swinger.

 

You can ask me to share your preferences. Then it is up to me, and ME alone, to accept it or not. NO amount of input from anyone will change my mind on this. Call me closed minded...but that is MY PREFERENCE!! If you don't like it. Find someone else to play with. If you can't respect other peoples preferences...then you NEED to find someone else to play with.

 

We can and do swing with bi males/couples. We just don't oblige them with their "preferences", because they don't fit ours, this is made VERY clear upfront. The swapping of partners, and bi females are acceptable. Male on Male...is not.

 

Double standard...NO! We are completely accepting of bi males in this lifestyle. Just don't expect ME to participate. Especially when my last trip to the doc for a rectal, sent me flying off the table, and his finger...in extreme pain!

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Originally posted by BiFriend:

It's hard for me to imagine *anyone* -- male or female -- participating in swinging, going to party houses, talking to others about sex, interacting with others sexually/sensually, having actual sex with others, etc., etc... all this without having some sense of one's conservative bubble undergoing a bursting, so to speak...

-- P.T.

 

We have only found swing partners on the net, and somewhat amusingly all of our partners have been basically 'just like' us. We don't plan it that way, but people we find interesting/attractive normally turn out more like us then different. Hell EVERY couple we have hooked up with have even had the same political views to ours, Republican swingers go figure :eek:

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At 40, I'm still not old, but I've lived a fair bit of time... This is what I've learned: My "preferences" tend to be pretty fluid. They have a mysterious, wonderful tendency to change over time. I might "prefer" something like coffee for a long time. Then, one day I try something new, like tea, and I discover I really like it... This is simply the joy of life, the joy of living. This seems to be the basic point, not whether we have preferences for one thing or another and that's it, that's all we know. It's finding out how willing we are, how courageous we are to try different things, especially if new trying things might give us greater happiness and cause others to be happy too.

 

Some of the posts here seem to be coming from a place of absolutes. Something akin to, 'This is such-and-such a way that's the way it's gonna be.' I don't believe the world is at all like this. I believe if you look around at your own life, you will find that things are constantly changing, that old relationships are fading away and new relationships miraculously come into your life. Of course, if we don't want new relationships, that's entirely up to us. But I think we run the risk of becoming very lonely and bitter and unhappy if we go THAT route. I think all of us are well aware of how lonely, bitter and unhappy some people can be because we personally know people who, sadly, are stuck in that unfortunate situation themselves.

 

I would usually agree with those who think that bisexuality, or whatever, is not OK for them. Sex and sexuality is, afterall, a matter of individual taste. However, it seems at least a bit inconsistent to me if such views come from people who claim to be "swingers," not because I have a pre-defined notion of exactly what a "swinger" is, it's just that it doesn't seem a very *real* point of view. All my experiences of "swinging" are quite tolerant and friendly and relaxed. In fact, that's what the swinging world *IS*!

 

I am a bit suspicious of a swinger who thinks female bisexuality is great but male bisexuality is "dirty." This view seems too polorized. Furthermore, I wonder how these same individuals can go into a play room at a swing party house filled with two dozen nude men and women, all in various states of sexual bliss, everyone hot and sweaty, for several hours, and come away from an experience like that and still think that male bisexuality is "dirty." Sorry, but this seems halarious to me! I'm literally laughing as I write this!

 

Sincerely,

 

-- P.T.

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Originally posted by michigancouple:

The absolutely hilarious example are the whiners that complain that because they are straight people look down on them.

 

Wrong-o, my friend. What us straights 'whine' about is the constant insinuation there's something wrong with us if we not only have no desire to have sex with a member of the same gender, but the very thought of it is personally disgusting to us. That's not a judgement on what you do in the bedroom, but we're not about to lie about how we feel to assuage anyone's feelings.

 

This'll no doubt upset some people, but I feel that one of the reasons (perhaps the main one) many clubs ban male/male contact is the undeniable fact that such activity carries a much higher risk of HIV transmission.

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Swinging is about "couples". Bottom Line: This lifestyle is about our enjoyment. Not whether or not you agree with us.

 

As a whole, most couples/males/females are more accepting of bi females than bi males. That's the truth, and we can't change it. Now we as a group can either accept it, or not.

 

But I liken this thread to a spoiled child. Everyone appears to be trying to convert each other. Which is insane!!! We either accept it, or we don't. Period! There will be no conversions based on the input provided by either side of this arguement. Neither has provided any real reason for a man to "switch" from straight to bi, or vice versa. Only stated their preferances.

 

Do what feels good...live and let live.

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Originally posted by danc694u:

But I liken this thread to a spoiled child. Everyone appears to be trying to convert each other.

 

I can only speak for myself, and I can assure you I'm not trying to 'convert' anyone. Quite the contrary, I wish gays and bi's would stop labeling us as homophobes simply because we don't wish to engage in same gender sex, and find the thought of doing so nauseating.

 

Nothing personal.

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