The body beautiful? - Page 2

CanadianCouple · 12-16-2002, 08:34 PM

Team --

Interesting story about your large friend you love so much but have no desire to have sex with. Keep in mind how many potential wonderful friendships never come to fruition because of snobs who won't entertain the thought of meeting overweight people. Sad, huh?

You know what's a real hoot? So many of these people describe themselves in the same ads as non-judgemental of others. What hypocrites.

Dan

CanadianCouple · 12-16-2002, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TeamSoBe
When I'm looking for a partner for an explicitly sexual relationship where the whole idea is that I don't develop too many emotions, then I don't see why inner beauty is really a relevant concept.

Well, there's one difference between you and me. We have to at least somewhat LIKE a person to have sex with them. Tape measures alone won't cut it.

Dan

TeamSoBe · 12-16-2002, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Keep in mind how many potential wonderful friendships never come to fruition because of snobs who won't entertain the thought of meeting overweight people. Sad, huh?

Are you looking for friends or are you looking for people to have sex with? When we look for friends we go looking where there are people that share our interests. We meet our friends at clubs where we can find people that are into the same music and nightlife that we are, or on the beaches where people are doing the sports that we're into. When we're meeting swingers it's because we're looking for people to have sex with. I'm sure that lots of the really flabby swingers out there are great people at heart, but that's just irrelevant to us if what we're looking for is sex.

Put it this way, do you respond to every single guy that writes to your ads? Lots of them are probably great guys and you could have a great friendship with them. You aren't looking for single swinger guys to try to have a buddy-buddy friendship with though, you already have friends. You eliminate them as sexual partners because they are single males, and so you aren't interested. It isn't sad that a potential friendship is being cut off, it's just that you aren't interested in them sexually.

If I went around refusing to speak to overweight people on the street then that would be sad. If my wife and I don't pursue swinging relationships with overweight people because we know that we aren't interested in having sex with them, then that's not sad, that's just using time efficiently.

12-16-2002, 11:39 PM

What a frustrating topic! I didn't even know where to begin. It would seem the only reason someone would be upset that a couple is only looking for HWP people is because their not, and they "need not apply". Perhaps you feel slighted in someway, too bad.

Health is a lifestyle, it takes a lot of work, my wife and I both try to make it to the gym at least 3-4 times a week. It starts with turning off the TV. If someones carrying around an extra 10 pounds or so I don't think any one looking for HWP would care about that, but once you start pushing the 20-30lbs+ over your ideal weight .... yeah, well sorry..... not our fault.... you're overweight and (in our veiw) not as pleasing to the eye as you could be! (how is it we're the badguys now?)

To call someone shallow because they're not attracted to ...... "big boned" people is BS. Sorry, it's nothing against you as a person.... I'm sure you're interesting and all that, but you're overweight, and we are simply not attracted to you. So why would we want to have sex with people we're not attracted to?????

If that actually bothers someone, I would have to conclude they're actually upset with themselves for being overweight. Well don't lay it on us (the HWPers),... put down that remote, throw out that 'bag O chips' get that ass of the couch and do something about it....

Chicup · 12-17-2002, 12:09 AM

Ack! Not this topic again? Is it this topics time of the year already? My how time flies.

Ok I most likely shouldn’t post on this again, but what the heck I’m bored.

I have think that much of the animosity is due to the hurt feelings of the non-hwp for being excluded. Its one thing if people are rude to you because you are fat, but if they want to put adds saying hwp only, that’s their business, its what they want/like and its none of your concern. Hell by saying hwp they are trying to be ‘nice’ about it, since it sounds a heck of a lot better then ‘no fat chicks’. Maybe they are missing the best friends and greatest sex in the world by doing this but its their business.

Our adds have ALWAYS had HWP listed/implied somehow, because when it comes to sex fat doesn’t turn us on at all. Is that so wrong? Am I evil for this?

Interestingly, in the last couple of years the wife and I have put on a good number of lbs. We are not fat, but we are well on our way. Does this make us mad that couples that would have wanted to swing with us a couple of years ago wouldn’t want to now? Are we mad at them for being shallow? Hell no! We blame ourselves and are embarrassed about it. We have been very lazy with exercise and have been eating horribly for 2 years, what can you expect? We are both on diets now, and are working towards our ‘ideal’ weights we had at 21. Maybe by losing that weight you will be able to find some more great friends and great sex you are currently missing out on.

Mariposa_y_Oso · 12-17-2002, 03:13 PM

Well, when I saw this thread, I thought I'd just read it and move on. After all, attraction is one of those things that can't be reasoned with. After reading some of the posts, however, I decided to weigh in with my two cents worth...

Two examples of how HWP is a steaming, fly-covered heap of horseshit:

Mari is 4'11". While I won't give mention her exact weight (partly because I'm not sure I know it and partly because I am not suicidal! lol), if you look up her height on one of those weight charts, she "SHOULD weigh between 93-100 pounds. Needless to say, she weighs a bit more than that. However, no one that I've met has ever said that they consider her fat. As a matter of fact, she's always getting comments from her friends that they are envious of her figure and the fact that she's so "thin". I'm attaching a pic of her at the end of the post. {EDIT: Apparently, either we aren't allowed to add pics to our posts or I did something wrong...sorry} Mari has a gorgeous figure...nice curvy hips, a small waist, and a very nice rack

To top it all off, she's got a smile that can knock you on your ass and a personality second to none. To those of you who are defending the whole HWP load of crap, I'd be willing to wager that if this woman, who according to the charts is at least 20 pounds overweight, came up to you in a club and started flirting with you, the last thing you'd be thinking about would be how to "ditch the fat chick." Hell yeah, I'd wager paychecks on that...

As for my story...I went to college on a wrestling scholarship. All throughout my career, I'd wrestled Heavyweight. Even at the high school level, I was a rather light heavy...my wrestling weight was usually around 220-230. However, at this level, my speed and strength more than overcompensated for this lack of weight. In college, however, I was being tossed around like a ragdoll by corn-fed farmboys that had to cut weight to make the 275 lbs. weight limit and they were not only big, but fast and strong as well. In order to try to save face, my scholarship, and my ass, I decided to try to drop down to the next lower weight class, 190 lbs. According to the weight charts, the ideal weight for someone my height (5'10") is between 155-185 lbs. Should have been easy then, right? Not quite. I got down to 210 lbs and the team doctor threatened to refuse to clear me to wrestle if I lost any more weight because my body fat was right around 7%. This effectively ended my wrestling career. I was a "tweener"...too small to wrestle with the big boys and too big to wrestle with the smaller ones. At any rate, my point is that you can't look at some numbers and determine "he's fat" or "she's a twig". Genetics, muscle content, body fat percentage...all these things can make that H/W chart as worthless as a Playboy in a blind reading room. Admittedly, I'm no longer the peak athlete I was 15 years ago, but even now when I tell people my weight, they don't believe me. Once, I had to actually get on a scale to prove I wasn't lying. I like to tell people I'm dense.

That usually seems to satisfy them, although I suspect they agree for reasons other than my weight.

I have to agree with the sentiments posted by others here. Mari and I are VERY big into personalities. Yes, physical attractiveness is important, but as K pointed out, a great smile, enthusiasm, and a fantastic personality tend to overcome most "imperfections" that people may have. We are in the Lifestyle for sex. Period. We aren't looking for poly relationships and aren't even looking for new, lasting friendships (though we are open to the opportunity when it presents itself), yet we are open-minded enough to recognize that great things come in all different sized packages...

Cheers!
~Mike

youngish56 · 12-17-2002, 10:19 PM

My interpretation of HWP is a loose definition that describes a person as not "turn off" overweight. Although one couple described 20 lbs excess baggage as too fat to be attractive to them, it obviously is not the case with most people.

As my son said to me when he was 6'2" with a 30 " waist, you are fat when your waist exceeds your trouser length. That was 15 years ago, and now he says he isn't fat, just short for his weight.

Some readers claim they're able to exclude any personal compatibility requirement to their experiences. We're not like that and frankly, can't understand just that much impersonality in anyone's sex. Drifting from the topic ? HWP is a "loose" definition
to people who think that personal compatibility is required to enjoy sex, as we absolutely do.

HWP has a more severe definition to those who are pursuing impersonal sex(?) regardless of compatibility.

only my 3 cents, 2 cents Canadian.

Chicup · 12-18-2002, 12:21 AM

HWP does not mean as far as I've encountered the medical 'ideal' weight.

Hell my ideal weight where I look the best is about 15lbs over what some chart says I should be.

To us and all of the couples we have run into, its a nice way of saying 'not grossly fat', no folds, being able to see your own feet, well I think you get the idea.

sinc · 12-18-2002, 04:48 PM

If all someone is looking for is looks then I dont see how their going to be worth spending time with because when the lights go out its not what you see but enjoying what happens and losing yourself into the sex and if your too worried how they look then you deffinetly arent going to be letting go to enjoy sex. Like they say dont judge a book by its cover, Some books are just the cover blank inside.

**Alura** · 12-18-2002, 05:30 PM

We've played with five couples over the past twenty-two years. Three would be called "HWP" if not "slender." Another couple were both about ten pounds overweight, and the last were definitely a "BBW" and a "BBM." We had more fun with the "BB's" for sure but it was because they were "funner people" and really dug swinging, not because they were fat. Interestingly, the friendships with the HWPs didn't last, but we attribute that to other factors than weight. Sex with them was fun, though. Hmmm... We'd have to add, "with some exceptions," in the case of two.

In the past year or so, Mrs. Alura has lost over forty pounds. (My size twelve jeans are too big! I hope to look good in tens by late January.) It will be interesting to see if our next partner-couple is HWP or BBW&M. We've had lunch with an HWP lady and her BBM husband. They're cool people so something may come of this friendship eventually.

Mr. Alura is a guy who can eat anything he wants and does. His weight has never been more than five pounds over his weight in high school, cholesterol is low and all that other healthy stuff. (Doesn't that just make you sick?

)

Maybe it's just that "birds of a feather fuck together"...

Alura

Quin · 12-18-2002, 08:27 PM

Quote:

As far as inner beauty though, I'm looking for inner beauty when I'm looking for a love mate. When I'm looking for a partner for an explicitly sexual relationship where the whole idea is that I don't develop too many emotions, then I don't see why inner beauty is really a relevant concept.

Nail. Hammer. Head.

Basically on this subject, you're damned if you do, damed if you don't. If you want HWP you're labeld by the fat people. If you want fat people, you're labed by the HWP people. Shallow, wallow, kapooie. It's all a PREFERENCE and what turns YOU on. I think all those brunettes should uprise against those shallow blonde lovers. And oh my, the bald headed guys should form possies and go beat down all the hair loving people.

It's is hilarious tho to watch all the waffling and the tiptoe-ing by those who post in this and the other weight threads.

Quin
()()

imsnowman · 12-18-2002, 08:44 PM

Oh my, what's the world coming to. I actually agree with Quin.

Just remember though, no "bi-curious" in your ads.

BradAndJanet · 12-18-2002, 08:56 PM

It is really all about personal preferences. We certainly don't feel insulted by people who put 'HWP' (however one defines it), nor do we think they are necessarily shallow. They're just expressing what gets them hot and bothered. We appreciate the honesty and simply move along, because we think people for whom that is important will probably not be interested in an ordinary looking, somewhat overweight, middle-aged couple (although we think we do have some redeeming qualities

). That doesn't make us right and them wrong, it just means we're looking for different things.

Sydney Carton · 12-20-2002, 03:50 PM

I don't think that anyone should have to apologize for preferring one body type over another. Nor do I think that having minimum standards of physical attractiveness for sex partners is necessarily shallow (whatever that exceptionally amorphous word is held to mean) or in some way morally deficient. I've honestly never been able to see why thinking that personality or "inner beauty" is more important than physical attractiveness some how makes you a better person, or thinking that looks are very important makes you a worse one. Both are important (although, when it comes to sex, I would prefer the term "responsiveness" rather than "personality"), and I can't see any reason why one would be an inherently more valid selection criteria than the other.

More practically, people have the preferences they have, and you're never going to be able to change them by complaining about it. Post-classical western society has tried for more than a thousand years to change the sexual preferences of homosexuals using a variety of more or less Draconian measures, with very limited success. Telling people who insist upon HWP in their ads that they are "shallow" is unlikely to meet with much greater success.

However, I can also understand why overweight people would be a bit peeved by the morally superior tone that non-overweight people often use to them. Avoiding becoming overweight in a modern western society requires, for most people, a significant amount of conscious effort. I don't think that anyone should be made to feel that they are the children of a lesser God because they have chosen to devote their energies to other things, or simply because they've decided that it just isn't worth it. It's one thing to tell someone that HWP is the only thing you're looking for. It's quite another to tell them that they're hamburger and you're steak (a choice of analogy which, in and of itself, casts a certain ironic light on just how "choice" the person using it is).

hotcpl4unfla · 12-21-2002, 10:38 AM

Ok, I have to put in my 2 cents here. I am really tired of people trying to "guilt" other people into their way of thinking. Just because my wife and I like healthy, fit, and average to slightly above average body-type people and find them aesthetically pleasing, why do we need to be made to feel "shallow" or "superficial"??? This is all about tastes and what you find attractive. Everyone is different! Why must we force our ideals and beliefs on others? I do not find obese or heavyset people sexually attractive, and neither does my wife. There. I said it. If you don't like that, I'm sorry, but I won't change my feelings for you. I won't lie and say, "uh, sure...I can live with it", and then deal with regret should anything become of the "relationship". In the same token, we have met some incredibly sexy and attractive women who are not exactly the posterwomen of fitness. It is all in how they present and carry themselves. We have been communicating with one in particualr who isn't really what we would call "HWP", but she isn't "obese" either...kind of in middle ground.We all have a mutual attraction to each other, and we find her very sexy.
So let's just say this in conclusion: don't get ticked off if you see an ad where someone wants "HWP" people. If you don't meet that criteria, MOVE ON. As for the people out there who focus purely on the "HWP" tagline, you may be limiting yourselves and may be missing out on some people who don't consider themselves this, but are attractive and sexy just the same.

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12-16-2002, 11:39 PM	#19 (permalink)
everlast Guest Posts: n/a	What a frustrating topic! I didn't even know where to begin. It would seem the only reason someone would be upset that a couple is only looking for HWP people is because their not, and they "need not apply". Perhaps you feel slighted in someway, too bad. Health is a lifestyle, it takes a lot of work, my wife and I both try to make it to the gym at least 3-4 times a week. It starts with turning off the TV. If someones carrying around an extra 10 pounds or so I don't think any one looking for HWP would care about that, but once you start pushing the 20-30lbs+ over your ideal weight .... yeah, well sorry..... not our fault.... you're overweight and (in our veiw) not as pleasing to the eye as you could be! (how is it we're the badguys now?) To call someone shallow because they're not attracted to ...... "big boned" people is BS. Sorry, it's nothing against you as a person.... I'm sure you're interesting and all that, but you're overweight, and we are simply not attracted to you. So why would we want to have sex with people we're not attracted to????? If that actually bothers someone, I would have to conclude they're actually upset with themselves for being overweight. Well don't lay it on us (the HWPers),... put down that remote, throw out that 'bag O chips' get that ass of the couch and do something about it....
everlast Guest Posts: n/a

12-17-2002, 03:13 PM	#21 (permalink)
Mariposa_y_Oso Here to Stay Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 76 Location: El Paso, TX Status: Married Couple	Well, when I saw this thread, I thought I'd just read it and move on. After all, attraction is one of those things that can't be reasoned with. After reading some of the posts, however, I decided to weigh in with my two cents worth... Two examples of how HWP is a steaming, fly-covered heap of horseshit: Mari is 4'11". While I won't give mention her exact weight (partly because I'm not sure I know it and partly because I am not suicidal! lol), if you look up her height on one of those weight charts, she "SHOULD weigh between 93-100 pounds. Needless to say, she weighs a bit more than that. However, no one that I've met has ever said that they consider her fat. As a matter of fact, she's always getting comments from her friends that they are envious of her figure and the fact that she's so "thin". I'm attaching a pic of her at the end of the post. {EDIT: Apparently, either we aren't allowed to add pics to our posts or I did something wrong...sorry} Mari has a gorgeous figure...nice curvy hips, a small waist, and a very nice rack To top it all off, she's got a smile that can knock you on your ass and a personality second to none. To those of you who are defending the whole HWP load of crap, I'd be willing to wager that if this woman, who according to the charts is at least 20 pounds overweight, came up to you in a club and started flirting with you, the last thing you'd be thinking about would be how to "ditch the fat chick." Hell yeah, I'd wager paychecks on that... As for my story...I went to college on a wrestling scholarship. All throughout my career, I'd wrestled Heavyweight. Even at the high school level, I was a rather light heavy...my wrestling weight was usually around 220-230. However, at this level, my speed and strength more than overcompensated for this lack of weight. In college, however, I was being tossed around like a ragdoll by corn-fed farmboys that had to cut weight to make the 275 lbs. weight limit and they were not only big, but fast and strong as well. In order to try to save face, my scholarship, and my ass, I decided to try to drop down to the next lower weight class, 190 lbs. According to the weight charts, the ideal weight for someone my height (5'10") is between 155-185 lbs. Should have been easy then, right? Not quite. I got down to 210 lbs and the team doctor threatened to refuse to clear me to wrestle if I lost any more weight because my body fat was right around 7%. This effectively ended my wrestling career. I was a "tweener"...too small to wrestle with the big boys and too big to wrestle with the smaller ones. At any rate, my point is that you can't look at some numbers and determine "he's fat" or "she's a twig". Genetics, muscle content, body fat percentage...all these things can make that H/W chart as worthless as a Playboy in a blind reading room. Admittedly, I'm no longer the peak athlete I was 15 years ago, but even now when I tell people my weight, they don't believe me. Once, I had to actually get on a scale to prove I wasn't lying. I like to tell people I'm dense. That usually seems to satisfy them, although I suspect they agree for reasons other than my weight. I have to agree with the sentiments posted by others here. Mari and I are VERY big into personalities. Yes, physical attractiveness is important, but as K pointed out, a great smile, enthusiasm, and a fantastic personality tend to overcome most "imperfections" that people may have. We are in the Lifestyle for sex. Period. We aren't looking for poly relationships and aren't even looking for new, lasting friendships (though we are open to the opportunity when it presents itself), yet we are open-minded enough to recognize that great things come in all different sized packages... Cheers! ~Mike
	__________________ "Morality is your agreement with yourself to abide by your own rules." Last edited by Mariposa_y_Oso; 12-17-2002 at 03:16 PM.

12-18-2002, 04:48 PM	#24 (permalink)
sinc Active Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 27 Location: wi Status: married	Be Honest If all someone is looking for is looks then I dont see how their going to be worth spending time with because when the lights go out its not what you see but enjoying what happens and losing yourself into the sex and if your too worried how they look then you deffinetly arent going to be letting go to enjoy sex. Like they say dont judge a book by its cover, Some books are just the cover blank inside.
	__________________ Live, Love Laugh And remember to have fun

12-18-2002, 05:30 PM	#25 (permalink)
Alura Just a hick Okie Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 8,144 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma Status: Widower	We've played with five couples over the past twenty-two years. Three would be called "HWP" if not "slender." Another couple were both about ten pounds overweight, and the last were definitely a "BBW" and a "BBM." We had more fun with the "BB's" for sure but it was because they were "funner people" and really dug swinging, not because they were fat. Interestingly, the friendships with the HWPs didn't last, but we attribute that to other factors than weight. Sex with them was fun, though. Hmmm... We'd have to add, "with some exceptions," in the case of two. In the past year or so, Mrs. Alura has lost over forty pounds. (My size twelve jeans are too big! I hope to look good in tens by late January.) It will be interesting to see if our next partner-couple is HWP or BBW&M. We've had lunch with an HWP lady and her BBM husband. They're cool people so something may come of this friendship eventually. Mr. Alura is a guy who can eat anything he wants and does. His weight has never been more than five pounds over his weight in high school, cholesterol is low and all that other healthy stuff. (Doesn't that just make you sick? ) Maybe it's just that "birds of a feather fuck together"... Alura
	Last edited by Alura; 12-18-2002 at 05:34 PM.

12-16-2002, 08:34 PM	#16 (permalink)
CanadianCouple Swingers Board Addict Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 1,139 Location: New Brunswick, Canada Status: Married Couple	Team -- Interesting story about your large friend you love so much but have no desire to have sex with. Keep in mind how many potential wonderful friendships never come to fruition because of snobs who won't entertain the thought of meeting overweight people. Sad, huh? You know what's a real hoot? So many of these people describe themselves in the same ads as non-judgemental of others. What hypocrites. Dan

12-17-2002, 12:09 AM	#20 (permalink)
Chicup Not a potential *** Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 4,093 Location: Under the bed Status: Tired	Ack! Not this topic again? Is it this topics time of the year already? My how time flies. Ok I most likely shouldn’t post on this again, but what the heck I’m bored. I have think that much of the animosity is due to the hurt feelings of the non-hwp for being excluded. Its one thing if people are rude to you because you are fat, but if they want to put adds saying hwp only, that’s their business, its what they want/like and its none of your concern. Hell by saying hwp they are trying to be ‘nice’ about it, since it sounds a heck of a lot better then ‘no fat chicks’. Maybe they are missing the best friends and greatest sex in the world by doing this but its their business. Our adds have ALWAYS had HWP listed/implied somehow, because when it comes to sex fat doesn’t turn us on at all. Is that so wrong? Am I evil for this? Interestingly, in the last couple of years the wife and I have put on a good number of lbs. We are not fat, but we are well on our way. Does this make us mad that couples that would have wanted to swing with us a couple of years ago wouldn’t want to now? Are we mad at them for being shallow? Hell no! We blame ourselves and are embarrassed about it. We have been very lazy with exercise and have been eating horribly for 2 years, what can you expect? We are both on diets now, and are working towards our ‘ideal’ weights we had at 21. Maybe by losing that weight you will be able to find some more great friends and great sex you are currently missing out on.

12-17-2002, 10:19 PM	#22 (permalink)
youngish56 Here to Stay Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 68 Location: Florida Status: couple	My interpretation of HWP is a loose definition that describes a person as not "turn off" overweight. Although one couple described 20 lbs excess baggage as too fat to be attractive to them, it obviously is not the case with most people. As my son said to me when he was 6'2" with a 30 " waist, you are fat when your waist exceeds your trouser length. That was 15 years ago, and now he says he isn't fat, just short for his weight. Some readers claim they're able to exclude any personal compatibility requirement to their experiences. We're not like that and frankly, can't understand just that much impersonality in anyone's sex. Drifting from the topic ? HWP is a "loose" definition to people who think that personal compatibility is required to enjoy sex, as we absolutely do. HWP has a more severe definition to those who are pursuing impersonal sex(?) regardless of compatibility. only my 3 cents, 2 cents Canadian.

12-18-2002, 12:21 AM	#23 (permalink)
Chicup Not a potential *** Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 4,093 Location: Under the bed Status: Tired	HWP does not mean as far as I've encountered the medical 'ideal' weight. Hell my ideal weight where I look the best is about 15lbs over what some chart says I should be. To us and all of the couples we have run into, its a nice way of saying 'not grossly fat', no folds, being able to see your own feet, well I think you get the idea.

12-18-2002, 08:44 PM	#27 (permalink)
imsnowman Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 429 Location: TX Status: couple	Oh my, what's the world coming to. I actually agree with Quin. Just remember though, no "bi-curious" in your ads.

12-18-2002, 08:56 PM	#28 (permalink)
BradAndJanet Only slightly cracked... Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 7,071 Location: Seattle Status: Married Couple	It is really all about personal preferences. We certainly don't feel insulted by people who put 'HWP' (however one defines it), nor do we think they are necessarily shallow. They're just expressing what gets them hot and bothered. We appreciate the honesty and simply move along, because we think people for whom that is important will probably not be interested in an ordinary looking, somewhat overweight, middle-aged couple (although we think we do have some redeeming qualities ). That doesn't make us right and them wrong, it just means we're looking for different things.

12-20-2002, 03:50 PM	#29 (permalink)
Sydney Carton Active Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 28 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Married to the mob	I don't think that anyone should have to apologize for preferring one body type over another. Nor do I think that having minimum standards of physical attractiveness for sex partners is necessarily shallow (whatever that exceptionally amorphous word is held to mean) or in some way morally deficient. I've honestly never been able to see why thinking that personality or "inner beauty" is more important than physical attractiveness some how makes you a better person, or thinking that looks are very important makes you a worse one. Both are important (although, when it comes to sex, I would prefer the term "responsiveness" rather than "personality"), and I can't see any reason why one would be an inherently more valid selection criteria than the other. More practically, people have the preferences they have, and you're never going to be able to change them by complaining about it. Post-classical western society has tried for more than a thousand years to change the sexual preferences of homosexuals using a variety of more or less Draconian measures, with very limited success. Telling people who insist upon HWP in their ads that they are "shallow" is unlikely to meet with much greater success. However, I can also understand why overweight people would be a bit peeved by the morally superior tone that non-overweight people often use to them. Avoiding becoming overweight in a modern western society requires, for most people, a significant amount of conscious effort. I don't think that anyone should be made to feel that they are the children of a lesser God because they have chosen to devote their energies to other things, or simply because they've decided that it just isn't worth it. It's one thing to tell someone that HWP is the only thing you're looking for. It's quite another to tell them that they're hamburger and you're steak (a choice of analogy which, in and of itself, casts a certain ironic light on just how "choice" the person using it is).

12-21-2002, 10:38 AM	#30 (permalink)
hotcpl4unfla Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 168 Location: Tampa, Florida USA Status: Couple	HWP Ok, I have to put in my 2 cents here. I am really tired of people trying to "guilt" other people into their way of thinking. Just because my wife and I like healthy, fit, and average to slightly above average body-type people and find them aesthetically pleasing, why do we need to be made to feel "shallow" or "superficial"??? This is all about tastes and what you find attractive. Everyone is different! Why must we force our ideals and beliefs on others? I do not find obese or heavyset people sexually attractive, and neither does my wife. There. I said it. If you don't like that, I'm sorry, but I won't change my feelings for you. I won't lie and say, "uh, sure...I can live with it", and then deal with regret should anything become of the "relationship". In the same token, we have met some incredibly sexy and attractive women who are not exactly the posterwomen of fitness. It is all in how they present and carry themselves. We have been communicating with one in particualr who isn't really what we would call "HWP", but she isn't "obese" either...kind of in middle ground.We all have a mutual attraction to each other, and we find her very sexy. So let's just say this in conclusion: don't get ticked off if you see an ad where someone wants "HWP" people. If you don't meet that criteria, MOVE ON. As for the people out there who focus purely on the "HWP" tagline, you may be limiting yourselves and may be missing out on some people who don't consider themselves this, but are attractive and sexy just the same.

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