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I guess this is one of those case-by-case things. While I can't think of a situation where this would work on either side of our family, I can see where it would work for some folks. It seems that each of us probably know the dynamics of our families well enough to either say "Hell no" or "This might be fun" with a decent amount of confidence.

This is whatever you decide you both want it to be. It can go just as far as you are interested in going. What it becomes is up to you. Rules are very important and not breaking them is something that neither of you should ever do. Just because something 'feels right' to one partner doesn't necessarily means the other partner feels the same way. IF you even decide to go further, you should both make this decision BEFORE you are in a situation where you may want to go further. All of this can and usually is a 'one step at a time' thing. Maybe she will want to see what kissing another woman is like, maybe she'll want to see what it's like to see you kissing another woman, etc, etc. Where it goes is up to the two of you and it doesn't have to lead to full swap. Take your time and enjoy the experiences as you both come across them...there's no pressure or rush, just good times.

So I've never been to a lifestyle cruise before, but on the idea of race... I'm not sure what it is, but our profile has gotten a lot of attention from single black guys on SZC. I have no preference either way, but it just feels weird when they right off the bat ask me if I'm into BBC. It's like, I'm into attractive dudes, I don't really care what the color of your cock is. I'm fat, I don't want to be someone else's fetish, why would I want to make you into a fetish? It feels dehumanizing. I guess there's the idea of preference, but at what point does preference morph into fetish? Mr. Prufrock and I are talking to a single guy we met at the party this weekend (he was the naked dude chatting me up) we're trying to set up a play date this Saturday (eeek!) He's incredibly attractive, but apart from that, he is really nice, courteous, and interesting. He also happens to be black. I don't know. I guess what I'm trying to say is that race doesn't enter into it for me, if you're an awesome person (and you guys sound like you're both awesome) then people will want to meet you. I don't honestly think you'll have any problems, and anyone who passes you over just because of your race is an idiot that you wouldn't want to play with in the first place. I am wondering, however, how many profiles that state they don't like BBC have put that up due to a lot of attention from black dudes who have fetishized themselves. (Instead of saying, "Hi, my name is Carl, I really liked your profile, I also like kayaking and dancing. Would you like to meet?" they say "Hey! Do you like BBC, because I've got one with your name on it." Like that's the only thing they have going for them.) Although, there are plenty of white dudes that send the text equivalent of a dick pick too, so I guess that's no excuse. I tend to pass both of those types over. Edit: incidentally, Mr. Prufrock and I are into BBC. The British Broadcasting Corporation puts on most of our favorite shows from Doctor Who to Top Gear, to Luther to pretty much all of my period dramas. If we didn't have to buy a bunch of stupid channels with it, we'd totally get BBC America.

Exactly. I think it's bad form. I let the couple 'drive', and let them bring it up.

*Sorry just have to take moment here to say, BOOM! 3000th post, baby!! Okay, back to the topic at hand... Nope. Not for me. This came up in conversation one time and Mr. intuition had said fucking my sister would be like fucking his own sister...which was just weird. Aside from that, there's also the problem of not being able to divorce your blood relatives. They're always related to you, and family relationships are way, way too precious to jeopardize this way. This is, of course, my own situation, my personal opinion, and your mileage may vary.

Read this. Read it again. Commit it to memory. Most important, commit: "The (marital) relationship must come first."

Yes, on several occasions and locations. (Vegas, Cruises, Hedo) etc. If fact a few of my regular playmates are well-known porn actresses.

I'm adopted so I might already be doing it

Hmmmm... a very interesting topic indeed! So, I'm going to give the full single guy perspective here. I find that free and open communication is the best medicine when it comes to the "lifestyle" so that there is no confusion, no guessing and thus no hurt feelings or, by the same token, missed opportunities! With respect to playing with a couple, a single guy is generally at somewhat a disadvantage first, because we are a dime a dozen , second because if we make a simple misstep in a question or an answer we are tossed aside without a second thought, and third, we are a dime a dozen! That being said, I can certainly understand the plight of a couple looking for an MFM/MMF partner as I can only imagine the torrent of dick pics and one line offers (wanna fuck?). In the profiles I've posted (SLS, AFF, etc.) even though I make it abundantly clear the I am 1000% straight, I still get offers from gay/bi guys or couples that want me to compromise and play bi, so I can only guess at what straight guys ask When I interact with a couple, be it through the male or the female, I always make it clear up front that I am there as an addition to their fun, not as a substitute, except for a couple that is playing as a hotwife/cuck, and then that is a completely different dynamic altogether. I've found that if I ask about every aspect of their expectations (3way, guy watching, 1-on-1, pics/vids, oral, anal, dp, dv, dom/sub, spanking, public, private, etc.) then there is no confusion. I let them know that they are in the driver's seat, not I (unless they hand me the wheel that is...). That I need to know EXACTLY how and where I fit into their fantasy and dynamic, and most importantly WHERE THE BOUNDARIES ARE (and which ones they would like to explore if any). I ask these things not to imply or suggest what I want them to do, but simply because I want to know their preferences... thus THERE ARE NO WRONG ANSWERS! Every couple and person is different thus I've found to assume ANYTHING is a fool's game ---- so I ask, everything, every time, but as diplomatically and gently as I can muster (it's a dance after all!). If that intimidates or scares a couple (or a unicorn for that matter...) off, then it likely wasn't meant to be any way. C'est la vie! I don't say this all to be brash or insensitive... I say this because it really sucks to be in the positions of wanting to really add to the fun for a couple (and I mean that with all sincerity!) and then get to the point where you are about to kiss this really hot woman, only to find that kissing is considered a no-no and be shown the door... (it happens!). I takes a lot to muster up the courage to interact intimately and sexually with another man's love in front of him (or with him), but the rewards are fantastic when it works! Yes, it is waaaaay easier to be solo with her, yes it is in some ways more fun because you can get much more intimate with her (if that is what she seeks), but being an accessory it pretty damn hot too! That being said, if at any moment I sense that the intimacy has started to cross the line and become an inappropriate level of affection that will compromise their relationship, I will put an end to the arrangement as that is not my goal, place or ethos. I won't make an issue of it, I will simply exit gently and diplomatically in such a way that I don't hurt either her or him, or their relationship. I am not a home wrecker. Now, I'm not so naive as to not believe that some guys will do/say anything to get a piece of pussy... but there are some of us that won't. I have one couple with a wife that is incredibly sexy, perfect figure, loves all aspects of sex, but her husband wants to suck my cock after I'm finished... but that's just not me, so it's not going to happen. I'll hang out with them, go out for drinks, talk about anything, but I won't compromise my boundaries, and I don't expect them to either. There plenty of guys that will do what they want (well, maybe not so many because they keep coming back to me!), just like there are couples that only want a straight guy, so no harm no foul. I hope this provides a little insight as to what is going through the depraved single guy mind. I know that it still may not answer to OP's question because from what I can glean he is definitely a bit more surreptitious than what I have laid out... so I wouldn't trust him... GaSH

If swinging isn't something that you are comfortable doing, then don't do it. There is no cosmic force which will inexorably draw you into it. I've known people who actually went to swingers clubs regularly but were not, never wanted to be, and still aren't swingers. They just enjoyed socializing with the people at the club. It sounds to me like you guys went out, had some fun, and your wife let her exhibitionist side out to play. That's fantastic. It sounds to me like now you have some options. You can call it a fun life experience, glad you did it, but aren't going to do it again. Alternatively, you can go out and do it again sometimes, while being clear with yourselves and each other that you will stick to those guidelines. It sounds to me like you've shown yourself capable of sticking to those guidelines and still having fun. However, if you do go back, the one thing I would strongly suggest you work on is being honest with yourselves and each other about what you want. You were both willing to make an exception of the rules if things felt right, but you didn't share that. You need to be able to share that, because of there is a next time and you do find yourself in a situation that "feels right" you need to be honest with each other about it. I would strongly suggest that, if you continue, you continue to stick to your boundaries (whatever they may be). My $.02, for whatever it's worth.

Welcome to the board! We're glad you had a great time and were able to express yourselves in a new and fun way. It does tend to make the sex a lot hotter for the next few weeks. So where do you go from here? Good question. Here's a thought: Keep talking about what does turn you on, what turns you off, what you are afraid of, and IF you move forward, go only as fast as the slowest person. I'd suggest spending a lot of time reading this board specifically the Curious About Swinging forum, and threads with the tag Common Questions. One thing you'll find here is, while we're a great resource for swingers, we never try to push swinging on those that aren't ready. Often we're the first to say "You're not ready". If the two of you keep up your great communication, keep researching and learning from other's experiences, you'll figure out if you've gone as far as you want to go, or if you just might like to take another step into the pool. Best of luck!

We've been on 4 LS takeovers, and will be on a 5th next April. Trust me, experience tells me you'll have a blast. I think you hit the nail on the head. Be yourself, and have fun. There will be plenty of chocolate there, btw :-)

We'll be on the MSC Divina in April '16 as well. Our 5th takeover cruise. We can hardly wait. Great people, Beautiful ship, Nice itinerary, and of course, the Yacht club. Should be quite an experience!

Oh dear God. I've never been a big fan of anal in the first place, but this just seems like adding insult to injury. At least you got the bragging rights, LOL.

Been there, done this. My first wife suffered from severe depression and blamed me for not being able to make her happy (we were married 20+ years but most of that was because of my son). Towards the end since I wasn't interested in her, she 'knew' that I must have been having an affair (I wasn't, I just wasn't interested in her and her accusations). In the end the relationship wasn't able to be saved and we both moved on. Now I am one of the luckiest men on the planet as I have the relationship of my dreams. Swinging will never save a bad or damaged relationship...quite the opposite. You need to have an excellent relationship in order to successfully swing (IMHO). The relationship must come first, everything else (especially swinging) is a bonus, and should always be treated as such.

I would never ask this question, I think it signifies that you don't understand this is something most couples do TOGETHER, as 99% of the profiles state.

Sorry it took me a while to reply to this as I read this days ago, but didn't have the time to give it the treatment it deserved. I hated that fucking TV show. However, my friends in the gay community loved it. The gay caricatures in it really bother me, and I could never figure out why until you posted that. Thanks for telling me there is a male bi-sexual lifestyle. I really didn't know. I am aware of the hatefulness of gay men to bi-men although I think this is relaxing more, maybe it's just everybody being older and wiser. I am not really 'around' the gay community as much anymore, so I could be wrong. I did get sick of the straight guy baiting/anger thing. I accept people at their face value and have a tendency to forget that others don't. I think there is less hate spewed at the male bi-sexual community. I have also definitely heard a lot of hate speech coming from both the liberal straight community and gay community towards the bi-sexual community. I guess I am not on anti-depressants. Still I am sorry that you are feeling crippled. I had a very close male bi-sexual friend who was having serious issues. I do see a shrink as well. Must admit never talked to him about my bi-sexuality. Wholly fuck, if you are a guy at a standard swing club, that is not specifically open to m-m contact DO NOT BRING THIS SUBJECT UP! That is my opinion. I have heard really violent tirades from guys and girls, who have had a male swing partner 'touch' them. I have bumped knees with a guy while we are fucking and had him freak out on me. No, I don't tell them I am bi, I play by the rules of the club I am at. The discussions I have had with like minded people at a swing club that is m-f, f-f (kinda the standard here in Chicago) has literally been whispers. I had one guy 'sneak' touch me too. I just wish he had said something, as I have no 'gaydar'. I enjoy watching to men kiss, or give each other BJ's, kinda fun. Also enjoy looking at the other guys when my wife and I play. Especially if I am attracted to him. I am not typically attracted to the average guy though, so it's touchy. NO, you are not wrong. I was kinda appalled from the outside when the gay marriage laws went into effect. All the newspapers were only showing women holding hands or kissing. Like no men were getting married. Now I want to share my experiences. First off, gay night clubs I find super sex charged. More so than 'vanilla' clubs, in my opinion. I have been to a few but never had any spark with anybody. It is really typical to see guys making out or a bit more in the 'corners'. I never went to an all guy sex party so I can't really compare my experiences to that. I have a friend into the more extreme end of things and he definitely describes stuff I wouldn't have believed. Still the little gay party boy isn't my type so that was a bust. Now in the swing of things with my wife, we get to experiment with our sexuality. We attend an all bi-sexual party where there is m-m contact. The biggest surprise to me was the lack of men kissing, or flirting with each other. Really different from the gay clubs I am familiar with, or the f-f contact at typical clubs. I was really into the idea of possibilities, sigh my hopes were dashed. Things soon heat up, there are a lot of public BJ's and sex, but not a lot of kissing,. Now J, a guy I've played with has said he has seen some, the last time we talked about it. So maybe I just missed it. We have been twice. We will go again schedule permitting. J promised we would publicly make out next time we are there, . The weird thing about the bi-party is, it is really hard to tell the guys that are there for both the men and the women, and the guys that are just there for the women. I have had zero luck trying to chat up guys that I thought were attractive at the party. I will be the first to admit though I don't know what I am doing. Still I have made an effort. Are you correct that lifestyle people aren't into m-m contact? Yeah some of them (and this is guys as well as girls). I think the lifestyle is a cross section of society, just with bigger libido's. I am not sure if society will ever really 'accept' male homosexuality. Legalize it sure, but not in the same way female homosexuality is accepted. For me for now, bi-sexuality is another kinky thing for my wife's and my quiver.

A little late to the party here but just want to say that's a great attitude. I absolutely understand how you feel. While I don't usually get rejected because of my ethnicity, my husband does. I cannot say how many times we have encountered potential playmates who want to play with me but not my husband and it's clear the reason is racial. But we have also met many great people in the LS and the good outnumbers the bad. It will happen again, but don't let it get you down.

We just booked our first LS Cruise, the MSC Divina April 2016. It's a long time to get there, but we're already feeling the excitement. We hope to meet some great couples. We have many questions about almost every aspect of the cruise, but we have plenty of time ahead. We hope to see you there!

Explains what exactly? Is there something wrong with that? I can see a club owner getting a lot certs because I would assume they are very active in the lifestyle. But I don't care if someone has 100 or none. It's what we think of the couple/person that matters.