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MrMarvin, I'm going to try to help you out, in my own particular style. Did you ask your wife WHY she is uncomfortable with a group setting? What does she think will happen? A massive gang rape, rampant groping, or a huge Roman orgy? Lifestyle gatherings are the safest places for women, far safer than a regular bar or dance club. You occasionally get a brand new man, single or part of a couple, who doesn't understand the rules and might do something inappropriate, but those guys never last long and are generally removed quickly. If I may be so blunt, people like you are the reason we don't do one-on-one meets with couples we meet online. Here are the practical economics of it, there are exactly 52 Saturday nights in a year, after removing some for family events, holidays, and other vanilla things we do, there are 20 or so Saturday nights available for swinging. If we devote one of those to a meeting with a couple then there had better be some playtime. Oh yes, there's pressure. Our funtime is valuable to us, and we don't like to waste it. We're not alone in that opinion, far from it, and this is something you should take into account when you try to meet couples. There will be sanctimonius negative replies to this from other people, but I'm giving you the straight deal about it. If you're setting up these meets with experienced swingers, it's something you should be aware of. You've met with two couples, and not recieved any follow up positive response from them. I know that because you would have told us if you had. Here's something else you won't get from the swinger evangelists here, swingers are the most gossipy crowd you've ever met since you were in high school. You must be aware of this when you meet others, and be comfortable with whatever they will say about you after meeting them. Think about that when you're socializing. Whatever you present will be repeated. Those people you met are talking about their meeting with you to the other people they know in the lifestyle. Again, there will be replies to this telling you I'm full of it, but it's the truth. It's the truth that we've learned the hard way. Don't misconstrue that as any threat to your public anonymity. Swingers are very respectful of that, but the lifestyle aspects of you will be discussed. (i.e. your appearance, personality, willingness to play, if they think you're full of crap or not) You say you're serious. I don't think you are. Just my impression from what you've posted here, but isn't that what everyone does? You know, get some kind of impression of people by what they put in their online profile? I could be 100% wrong. If I am wrong, then maybe you should think of the face you present when you meet others so that they don't get the same impression I have. It might not seem so, but I really mean all of the above in the best possible way, and in the spirit of helping you. Andrew

I so agree with what you say there. All the above is the reason we are taking it real easy. The benefits seem obvious but it's the risks we want to understand and how others manage them or at least live with them. Interestingly enough the very process of freely having the discussions on this topic in itself seems to be of value to a relationship. Even after 20 years we realize that we still can go deeper with our understanding of each others needs, fears and desires. Even if we never went any further we have gained for getting just this far.