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WOW, we're fairly new here and we both registered as bi/bi curious, because neither one of us is interested in straight swapping. To us the idea is to explore options and fantasies that go beyond what the 2 of us could do alone and she isn't interested in gangbangs, So our thought run towards couple/couple and the possible mixes that come from that which include m/m f/f . Anyway you get the idea. For various reasons we see far more negatives with a 3rd (see #1 in the OP as to why we don't want a mfm for example. I think it's a very real issue and is EXACTLY the attitude we see from single male adds - "I'll Fuck your wife good 'cause you can't" is the gist of virtually every add we've seen from single men) of either sex than a couple so that is why we thought swinging would fit us. Now to get this across and for brevity we ID's as bi but neither one of us actually consider ourselves as by because we don't see ourselves emotionally attached to a man or she to a girl. BUT the fantasies we share do involve sexual contact between the same sexes and I find your comments about the limits of mm contact above ridiculously simplified. While it is not something I would do by myself I find the idea of giving oral to a guy or WITH my wife very erotic because I know what it gives her. Likewise with a girl. But reading some of the comments, it makes me have second thoughts that perhaps swinging is a lot more about men trading their wives than people want to admit. The reason I say that is 2 fold) 1) has to do with the number of women who ID as bi and as commented often expected to be so (for the men 1st and foremost regardless of how much she actually enjoys it) while at the same time if you look at the thread talking about women's most common fantasies and wants - it involves m/m. The thread is FULL of "yea I would like to see that, but I know he'll never". 2) for someone who is so turned off etc by this idea (chicop per your post #2) you sure spend a whole lot of time chiming in on the issue. This lead one to at least perceive you as having an agenda. Having said all that each to his, but then why continued comments in these thread and the open hostility??