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Not that I'm a club going sort, if I were, this would be of such pressure...what if they say -- no... you're not good enough -- who are they to say I'm not good enough, what if they say --- sure sure c'mon in -- and in is just as uncomfortable as out... what if you’re in and your partner is out…yikes, what if your partner is in and you’re out…ouch…

 

Nope too much pressure.

 

I’ll just be me.

 

 

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Was it Mark Twain who said that he wouldn't want to be a member of a club that would accept him? Maybe it was H.L. Menkin.....

 

I don't know, beautiful people are alright I guess, but when they "know" that they are beautuful- I think it becomes rather unsufferable.

 

Somewhat egotistical, yes?

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"Was it Mark Twain who said that he wouldn't want to be a member of a club that would accept him?"

 

It was Twain.

 

The point I was trying to make was that I think that the people who run a club looking for "perfect" people might think twice about it if a club who was only interested in "average" people not only existed, but thrived. You have to believe that there's a lot more "average" people out there than "perfect" people.

 

By the way, I am aware of a couple of "black only" clubs in the States. I could care less that they exist because I wouldn't frequent them anyway (and I'm black). I say let them do what they want. It's a free society we live in and we'll let the masses decide this issue.

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If by some fluke they let us in I would be sure to get us ejected in nothing flat. LOL I have this tendency to calls em as I sees em, and as soon as they started competing for mirror space I would call em all on it. EBF calls this my "pragmatism". Actually you could probably find me at the out door for the rejects, scoping out all the ladies with real curves.

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You know...I just went out for a walk with the heathens (my dogs for those of you that don't know...) and was really giving this subject some serious thought. As I walked, I stopped and talked to quite a few people - some I like a bunch, others a little, some I hardly know just now but hope to become friends with, and even a few that I could care less about seeing again. All different. But they make up my world. I share this world with them. A few were quite attractive, most were only average. But all were unique. And I kept wondering about this post....

 

Quite frankly, when I first read it, I didn't think much of it and kind of responded sarcastically. Then, lovers came on with his idea of segregating people "who are average and weigh 220+ pounds" into a club of their own...I suppose so the "beautiful people" would not have to contend with them? I'm not certain.

 

I'm average, but I'm not 220+ pounds. So where do I get to go. I'm quickly approaching 54, so now we need a club for those "almost" 54, but average? Those that are younger than 35 but "just" average? When you start this type of thing, where do you really draw the line? And what kind of people are we if we want to segregate others based solely on physical attributes and we are not willing or able to look beyond that? I'll grant you...part of swinging is purely physical attraction, but we're all attracted to different types. What one person may call attractive I would not, necessarily. Bill Clinton is an example. So many find him attractive. I found him to be repugnant and that having nothing to do with his behavior. I just don't like the way he looks. Period.

 

The more I thought about it the more seriously pissed off I got about the whole idea of this "beautiful people" thing.

 

And then..it finally came to me. All of this emphasis on looks is like a costume party. Just a cover-up. You never really know who is under that costume until it comes off, but by damn, it will. Eventually. And you might be real shocked when it does. Those costumes don't mean jack in the final analysis.

 

So...for those that would even consider membership at a "beautiful people" club, enjoy yourselves - knowing that it's really nothing more than a costume party. You also need to go with full knowledge that someday, somewhere, somebody is going thing you are not "attractive" enough.

 

I think I'd have far more fun with those that don't need a costume in the first place because I like people first.

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"Was it Mark Twain who said that he wouldn't want to be a member of a club that would accept him?"

 

It was actually Groucho Marx :)

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EBF you are eloquent and articulate as always.

 

I, too, have had to rethink what swinging is after attending the different clubs and reading all the different takes on it.

 

If it really is people who enjoy sex with others I consider it a form of blashpemy let alone a form of cashing in on something by club owners and event organizers to say beautiful people only and they need to apply. No one can yet define 'attracted to' and the reasons for it..... and I always thought and hoped that swinging was a way to that... exploring sexuality and no one gets hurt.,

 

This segregation shit burns my butt because it's segregation....seriously.. we could avenue off into uncut only, asian only, bbw only, over 50 only, under 30 only, and an and on and on. And this isn't private small functions.. this is being promoted by the swinger clubs on their websites. At what point is this a swinger community? At what point do we have choice, and options, and diversity?

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Originally posted by yawanna

EBF you are eloquent and articulate as always.

 

I, too, have had to rethink what swinging is after attending the different clubs and reading all the different takes on it.

 

And this isn't private small functions.. this is being promoted by the swinger clubs on their websites. At what point is this a swinger community? At what point do we have choice, and options, and diversity?

 

Absolutely, Yawanna! We can hit them in the pocketbooks by not "applying." If others want to go to such a club, I can only say, "Y'all have fun, y'heah?"

 

Mr. Alura

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Originally posted by Elusive BiFem

Well, Mr. Alura...I guess if Mrs. Alura decides to go alone, you and I could catch a movie or something. Shuffleboard anyone?

 

I don't think I'll be invited either. :confused: Just can't imagine why...:D

 

-EBF :)

 

OK, yawanna...serious answer? No, I don't think I would want to attend even if I did meet their "criteria." That kind of stuff makes me uncomfortable - I don't like being measured. - EBF

 

I checked with Mrs. Alura, EBF. She'd rather go with us. ;)

 

Mr. Alura

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Originally posted by Elusive BiFem

 

I think I'd have far more fun with those that don't need a costume in the first place because I like people first. - EBF

 

EBF, you are dynamite! Or as Jen might say, "You Rock!"

 

Truth is, I'd pick EBF over any of those "beautiful people." She's beautiful inside. And since I've met her, let me assure y'all that she ain't bad to look at either.

 

Mr. Alura

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Originally posted by yawanna

It was actually Groucho Marx :)

 

I almost wrote that, Yawanna! But I wasn't sure of myself! Thank you!

 

Mr. Alura

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:mad: We are a big beautiful couple with a down home country charm and have tried to get into a couple of clubs that cater to the beautiful people only. Needless to say we were denied entrance even though I personally explained that we were beautiful in our own way and the door person agreed but said he would lose his job if he let us in so I wrote a very nasty letter to the owner and even though I received no reply I still feel better for having written them. I hope that everybody that gets turned away will write the owners and maybe, just maybe they will eventually get the idea. Maybe it is a dream but why not try?

 

Ted :bj:

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I guess I'll have to be the lone dissenting voice. These semi-private, pre-screened events have been a godsend to us, as we at first found the idea of going to the public clubs around here intimidating. This is about sexual exploration, after all, and I'm not gonna lie to myself and say looks don't matter. While we are definitely open-minded about age, neither of us is interested in playing with people who are old enough to be our parents. And while I am attracted to a wide range of body types, from rail-thin to voluptuous, I'm generally not attracted to women who weigh as much or more than I do. It's just my preference, for better or worse. I can't fake it.

 

Despite the hype circulating in various media outlets (Playboy, GQ, etc.) these events aren't quite the modelpaloozas many people imagine them to be. Yeah, the guests are a bit younger than is average for the old-school swinger scene, and more attractive and stylish than most of the folks you see walking down the street. However, there's still a good 25 year age-spread and a variety of body types, including a smattering of BBW's and BBM's. Even within this pre-screened group I've already greatly expanded my definition of what is attractive. But at least I know, headed over to Grego's or wherever, that a decent percentage of the people are going to be sexy, fit and in my general age range.

 

This is about fantasy. Desire fulfillment. And there is nothing wrong with going after exactly what you want. How many people have posted on this very message board about, say, Mandingo clubs and wanting to find well-hung black men? I personally find *that* somewhat offensive. I could say "hey, that's not swinging: looks, race, dick-size, etc. aren't supposed to matter." But we all know that's BS. If people want to fulfill specific fantasies, be that with black men, statuesque blondes, or BBW's then so be it. There's room for us all under this tent. I may not want to play with some of you, but that hardly means I don't respect you, or that the girlfriend and I are some vapid Barbie and Ken clones hogging the mirror space.

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I tend to disagree with your thoughts in this matter. When I find that I am not welcome just because I may be larger than some and believe me I am not, then I feel that it is because the people involved are stuck up bitches and really don't deserve to know a good person such as myself or others like me. As I say I am only 225 and really don't show it and am 5'11" or so and have been told by some very sexy ladies that I am very good looking and extremely well endowed, so where do people, especially club owners get off not allowing someone like me in just because they don't or their clients don't like my looks or age, or whatever else. I bet that there are at least a couple of ladies in those clubs that do find me attractive and would want to spend time with me if given the chance. Where do you or anyone else get off denying me or them the opportunity to find out? I have in the past had a party or two and never denied anyone the privilege of attending unless there just plain wasn't any more room. I will let you know now that IT ALWAYS WORKED OUT unlike people like you would have people like me believe. I honestly think that it is more that you and people like you are afraid that one day your going to be a larger person and older and you don't want to have to think about it. OH WELL, think about it because it WILL MOST LIKELY HAPPEN! Face it, you can't be a young punk forever. ::P:

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Up here anyway, like lovers mentioned..it's the 'thing' to target the younger market. But, I was reading on another message board here about the 'young uns' and that they are a) just plain too young to connect with married folks with kids and a mortgage or b) too new in their relationship to be solid and stable.

 

We have had our influx of young uns and bottom line this 'beautiful people only' gig is it's people looking to make a buck off them.

 

Naturally 20 somethings going to a swinger club will find very few like themselves present.. the reason? a and b above :D

 

And in another thread, 'why', and to comment on thekolonel's posting.... it ISN"T just about sex. we can get that with lube, the right or left hand, a dildo (battery or manual) or up here we can hit one of the gay bars (yes lesbian, too) and pick up someone for an hour or so, or..... grab a hooker or 'escort' at a price.

 

Sure sometimes it's just about sex and those times are few and far between quite frankly. Because if you are a hit and run bang em and go couple in swinging.. word travels fast. And it's not a good word :eek:

 

When we go to clubs and swinger events.. we TALK to people. No matter what they look like, unless they have 3 heads but that never happens. It's personality THEN we can talk about sex.

 

It's hard enough to find people in our age range... 30's to 50's.. who have their shit together, never mind us applying to join a 'beautiful people only' event because.. who says THEY have their shit together? No one can. It's not about age or going to the gym...it's ATTITUDE and PERSONALITY.

 

THEN ...MAYBE... sex. get it?

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I say we start an after-club on-premise party for only people who 'get' swinging... we need references :D

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A beautiful people only club sounds way to elitist and snobbish. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have met some attractive looking people but after talking with them for awhile found them less so because of there attitude and personality.

 

I would prefer to go to a club where all different kinds of people are welcome and accepted. I would enjoy myself more.

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Originally posted by WildFlower

I would prefer to go to a club where all different kinds of people are welcome and accepted. I would enjoy myself more.

 

That just about sums it up, WildFlower. I really enjoy people. All different types of people. Some I like more than others, but it is a rare occasion that I meet someone that I don't take something away from the meeting.

 

I have no qualms with any person finding a specific type sexually attractive. We all do. But, while sex is one of the primary motivating factors in swinging, there are other things that come into play, too.

 

I find myself to be one of the most interesting people I know, ;) but if I was surrounded by people just like me all the time, I think I would get really bored! :D I said that tongue-in-cheek, but really, part of what makes me and all of us interesting people is the different people and ideas we've been fortunate to know and experience.

 

And for those that might think my stance on this subject is "sour-grapes" - it isn't. Not at all. Except for my age, I suspect I would "qualify" for the "beautiful people" membership card. I just have my own ideas of what defines "beautiful people." Thank goodness. - EBF

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wcplnsac:

 

As I say I am only 225 and really don't show it and am 5'11" or so

 

I absolutely ADORE big men - I like to climb all over them :D

 

I also LUV slim men - I can grab their sides and move them around :D

 

I also feel so amazing when a man is turned on by me, and shows it by touching my leg, or leaning into me, or gazing at me - or holding me very tightly when we dance or hug :D

 

and the best part? this all happened with big, tall, short, skinny, bald, long hair, 30, 40, and even a 55 yr old - classically good looking, average looking, even men who look like nerds in everyday life, but they are STUNNING in bed :cool:

 

Clubs or people that put qualifiers on their searches or events are choosing to limit their options. I don't want to make that same choice and I don't like that those limits are gaining momentum.

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Originally posted by wcplnsac

When I find that I am not welcome just because I may be larger than some and believe me I am not, then I feel that it is because the people involved are stuck up bitches and really don't deserve to know a good person such as myself or others like me. As I say I am only 225 and really don't show it and am 5'11" or so and have been told by some very sexy ladies that I am very good looking and extremely well endowed, so where do people, especially club owners get off not allowing someone like me in just because they don't or their clients don't like my looks or age, or whatever else. ... Where do you or anyone else get off denying me or them the opportunity to find out? I have in the past had a party or two and never denied anyone the privilege of attending unless there just plain wasn't any more room. I will let you know now that IT ALWAYS WORKED OUT unlike people like you would have people like me believe. I honestly think that it is more that you and people like you are afraid that one day your going to be a larger person and older and you don't want to have to think about it. OH WELL, think about it because it WILL MOST LIKELY HAPPEN! Face it, you can't be a young punk forever.

 

Why the heat Ted? I am not a bouncer or a club owner. I am not the source of your troubles. I merely expressed my preference, which apparently isn't allowed around here unless I agree with everyone else. I have been shot down at parties by women who thought I wasn't attractive enough to play with. And I have been on the wrong side of quite a few velvet ropes in my time. Big deal. That's life. I don't see how this makes anyone "stuck up", as you say. Besides, I've met plenty of guys with similar stats as yours at these parties.

 

I, too, have thrown parties in the past and it definitely does not always work out if everyone is not comfortable with everyone else, whether that's based on looks, personality or anything else.

 

And yes Ted, I will get older, though probably not larger (my father's about the same size), and when I reach that point I will play with older people. For now I will play with people in my own general age group, who I find physically and intellectually appealing. Tell me what the hell is wrong with that? You are coming across as the punk here, not I.

 

I won't apologize for choosing my play partners in part based on age and looks. To say these things do not matter in the least is so much sophistry. It takes a bit more than attitude and personality to engage my naughty bits. If, as many of you say, this isn't "really" about sex then why bother pursuing sex at all outside of your relationships? At least have the courage to call a spade a spade. Are we honestly to believe that when you guys place personals ads, for example, you have absolutely no qualifiers regarding looks, age or any number of other things (such as race) that, as you say, really shouldn't matter?

 

Talk about snobbishness. I find the insinuation that we just don't "get it" repellent, as well as the notion that the younger crowd is automatically suspect. How is this inclusive? Who the hell has any right to tell anyone else what swinging is and isn't? Ultimately, who cares what the "beautiful people" are up to if we are content with our own playmates? I think there is a lot of bitterness and insecurity that undergirds some of these responses.

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Originally posted by yawanna

I say we start an after club on premise party for only people who 'get' swinging.. we need references :D

 

In your previous posts you have criticized the club owners for opening a club for people they deem attractive..but by making a statement like above, are you not doing the same? Who is going to decide who "gets" swinging? Everyone's opinions and views differ.

 

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This is one of those kind of subjects that can get people riled for mostly no reason. Goodness knows we have had several here regarding HWP, bi-sexuality---male and female, etc.

 

This is what I have learned in the two years of reading this board. It's different strokes for different folks. What I may not agree with, hundreds of others may. It is how I express myself and my beliefs that makes a difference. It's taken me quite a while to learn that and I still fail on occasion.

 

I was going to stay away from posting my opinion in this thread, but I'll toss mine out anyway.

 

Anyone that owns a club or hosts a party that isn't funded by charitable donations, IMO can set whatever guidelines that they wish. If that means a swingers club that will turn you away at the door...so be it. If it means that you don't weigh over a certain amount or your hair style is passe.... and they turn you away so be it. Will it yank your chain or make you feel bad? Perhaps. However.... you have a choice here.

 

You can choose to be resentfull about it (like that would do any good) or you can just say to yourself... "Hey they probably aren't the kind of people that would suit my preferences anyway." And admit...we all have preferences, no swinger is without them.

 

For instance, I wouldn't swing or associate with anyone who is cheating. Does that make me discriminate? You bet it does. But it's my preference. I don't particularly care for foul mouthed people. Again, that is discrimantion, but it's my preference. It's really no different than those that have other standards. While I may not agree with them, they might not agree with mine either. It doesn't tho, give me the right to say theirs are wrong and mine are right. What it does tho, is give me the option to say..."To each it's own". And that is what I choose to do. :D

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Originally posted by thekolonel

I merely expressed my preference, which apparently isn't allowed around here unless I agree with everyone else.

The nice thing about this board, kolonel, is that you don't have to agree with anybody. You also can't expect them to agree with you. There's a lot of people who disagree. Just ask John. He thinks George Bush is just great and I still like him (John, that is)>

 

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I won't apologize for choosing my play partners in part based on age and looks. To say these things do not matter in the least is so much sophistry. It takes a bit more than attitude and personality to engage my naughty bits. If, as many of you say, this isn't "really" about sex then why bother pursuing sex at all outside of your relationships?

 

A lot of us like to have sex with our friends and refuse to have sex with strangers. We don't care if you do the opposite. Mrs. Alura and I have no interest in going to clubs, but if we did, we wouldn't want the club management to decide who we would have sex with. We'll do that ourselves and it might not be a couple who looks like Ken and Barbie. We certainly wouldn't insist that they look like them.

 

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Who the hell has any right to tell anyone else what swinging is and isn't?

 

We certainly agree with this, Kolonel, and would include club management in the group that has no such rights.

 

Mr. Alura

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Originally posted by thekolonel

... I merely expressed my preference, which apparently isn't allowed around here unless I agree with everyone else. ...

 

Nope, I can't agree with that :) You have a right to your preferences, everyone does. Although I said we wouldn't be interested in attending such a party, I'd never argue that you don't have the right to hold it and screen the attendees to your heart's desire. Looks are not a primary attractant for us, personality is, but I refuse to say that makes us in some way 'better' than you (or vice versa). They are simply preferences, nothing more.

 

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... I won't apologize for choosing my play partners in part based on age and looks. To say these things do not matter in the least is so much sophistry. It takes a bit more than attitude and personality to engage my naughty bits. ...

You shouldn't have to apologize. For you, looks are very important. As you said, that's part of the fantasy for you. If it doesn't 'work' for you any other way, then that should be fine. To each their own.

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In your previous posts you have critisized the club owners for opening a club for people they deem attractive..but by making a statement like above, are you not doing the same? Who is going to decide who "gets" swinging? Everyones opinions and views differ.

 

It was a joke man.. sheesh.

 

Follow me here... IF the 'swinger' community can subdivide itself to BBW, or just blacks, or just 'beautiful people', under 40's or 50, 20 somethings, those who wear only plaid, yadda yadda.

 

see where I'm headed? It becomes about the subcommittee...not swinging, IMHO. Kinda like mail order brides...mail order sex :)

 

I'd like to have a pony, too

:D

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OhioCouple, I like your perspective. Okay, people are sounding more reasonable now. Just a couple of quibbles.

 

Originally posted by Alura

We certainly agree with this, Kolonel, and would include club management in the group that has no such rights.

 

Management has every right to screen. After all, it's private property and they are taking on the risks associated with hosting. They aren't forcing you to attend, nor do they care what you do on your own. If I threw a party in my home and applied whatever arbitrary criteria to my guestlist, would I be telling *you* how to swing? Of course not. And neither are club owners when they set arbitrary criteria for events.

 

Even the most "open" of clubs usually have a dress-code, a code-of-conduct, and reserve the right to deny entrance or eject anyone they please. Hell I was almost turned away at the door to an off-premises party because I wore (stylish) corduroys. Many clubs do not admit single men under any circumstances, and possibly for good reason. I don't hear as many people complaining about that. Does this stop couples from swinging with single men? No.

 

So, yeah, management is always doing some kind of screening that might result in you missing out on people. But that's life; they have every right to hand-pick their guests and you have every right to go somewhere else more to your liking.

 

Originally posted by BradAndJanet

For you, looks are very important. As you said, that's part of the fantasy for you. If it doesn't 'work' for you any other way, then that should be fine.

 

Hmmm... I'm not sure if I like the implication here. If you are saying looks are *more* important to me than they are to most swingers, or that personality is somehow *less* important to me, I honestly do not believe this to be the case. I think there's a large gulf between the ideals expressed on this board and the way people actually behave when rubber meets road. Sure, in a room full of potential playmates, personality may be the deciding factor, but someone's physical presence is what sparks that initial curiousity. I don't think anyone here actually believes physical beauty is unimportant. Just look at the passions this thread has ignited over the subject.

 

And yawanna, the internet has already subdivided people into those sorts of categories. But I kind of agree with what you are saying. A (regular) dating site I used to be on had a good mix of freaks and regular folks... a lot of interesting things happened when those two blobs of people interacted. People's horizons expanded. Now the freaks have increasingly specialized "lifestyle" sites and the regular folks have their bland, neurotic "find the luv of yer life" sites.

 

So, yeah, there *should* be a way for disparate groups of swingers to rub elbows (this board being one), but you also have to understand that in any large lifestyle community people necessarily settle into sub-tribes where they feel most at home. Queer folks figured out how handle this stuff a long time ago. Swingers should do so well.

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Clarification: it's an after the club on premise party in most likely a hotel.. It is NOT a club..it's what we call 'house parties'. It is PROMOTED by clubs online. It is affiliated with swinger clubs but not run by them.

 

It's run by one couple who want to have houseparties with only people they deem 'exceptional' in their looks. You have to make an application to attend, send pics, full body and face shots, be interviewed by them, pre pay then BYOB, too.

 

.

Queer folks figured out how handle this stuff a long time ago. Swingers should do so well.

 

Yes they did.. and all you need to attend any queer bar or function is be gay. I expect the same of swinger bars and events.

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Sure, so the couple wants to have a semi-private event surrounded by people they find attractive. More power to 'em. If there's swapping and sex going on it sure sounds like swinging to me, just perhaps not what you are used to. I personally think it's bad form to charge for an after-party, but hey, it's their event. They can do whatever they want with it. It's the marketplace of ideas... if enough people are interested in an open alternative there will be one.

 

I have a gay friend who comes to visit me here in NYC so he can go to different clubs, events and such. Some of the sex-themed events and clubs have the same sorts of screening that the semi-private swinger clubs do. And even at open bars and clubs, it is simply understood that, for example, guys over 40 go to Rawhide and the young guys go to the View. Lipsticky girls go to Meow Mix Thursdays and butches go on Fridays. So while there are spaces open to all there are also more selective subcultures.

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Originally posted by thekolonel

Management has every right to screen.

 

All right, Kolonel, since it's their club we'll give in to this one. We have the right to not go, and that's what we'll do, because we refuse to cede our right to anyone else to decide who we will not swing with. Y'all have fun!

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Originally posted by thekolonel

Why the heat Ted? I am not a bouncer or a club owner. I am not the source of your troubles. I merely expressed my preference, which apparently isn't allowed around here unless I agree with everyone else. I have been shot down at parties by women who thought I wasn't attractive enough to play with. And I have been on the wrong side of quite a few velvet ropes in my time. Big deal. That's life. I don't see how this makes anyone "stuck up", as you say. Besides, I've met plenty of guys with similar stats as yours at these parties.

 

I, too, have thrown parties in the past and it definitely does not always work out if everyone is not comfortable with everyone else, whether that's based on looks, personality or anything else.

 

And yes Ted, I will get older, though probably not larger (my father's about the same size), and when I reach that point I will play with older people. For now I will play with people in my own general age group, who I find physically and intellectually appealing. Tell me what the hell is wrong with that? You are coming across as the punk here, not I.

 

I won't apologize for choosing my play partners in part based on age and looks. To say these things do not matter in the least is so much sophistry. It takes a bit more than attitude and personality to engage my naughty bits. If, as many of you say, this isn't "really" about sex then why bother pursuing sex at all outside of your relationships? At least have the courage to call a spade a spade. Are we honestly to believe that when you guys place personals ads, for example, you have absolutely no qualifiers regarding looks, age or any number of other things (such as race) that, as you say, really shouldn't matter?

 

Talk about snobbishness. I find the insinuation that we just don't "get it" repellent, as well as the notion that the younger crowd is automatically suspect. How is this inclusive? Who the hell has any right to tell anyone else what swinging is and isn't? Ultimately, who cares what the "beautiful people" are up to if we are content with our own playmates? I think there is a lot of bitterness and insecurity that undergirds some of these responses.

 

Okay, first of all I said I think of the people who make these decisions are snobbish. Second, I said that you can't remain a young punk forever not necessarily calling you a punk but if the shoe fits? I am just saying that I am of an age now where a lot, in fact most everybody under 30 is more or less a young punk to me, not meaning anything bad but as a terminology.

 

Now for something else, I will admit that I use a cane to walk now thanks to a young punk gangster who attacked me at work when my back was turned. And to me that shouldn't make a difference but even with my use of the cane I am still a person with a good personality and that is what a lot of people who swing look at. Not just the looks, and let's face it, it doesn't matter who you are or how good looking or young or even rich a person is there are people out there who will not find them attractive and therefore not want to have anything to do with them yet they will want me so why should I be banned from a party, a club, a social, or anything else based on my looks, handicap or wealth? If I am capable of performing, clean, polite to others and able to pay my own way why should I be turned away? Just because someone doesn't like the way I look? or the way I dress? or the fact that I am not rich? or maybe because I am a democrat? I think this is unjust.

 

As far as qualifiers in my ads? The only real qualifier is that I want them older than 25 because I have run into people who lie about their age and say they are 20 to 23 or so when they are really only 16 or 17 and I don't feel like going to jail for their lies. At 25 it becomes a real stretch for them to lie about the age.

 

As far as race or anything else? I don't personally care except that they be clean and disease free. If they are gay, bi, straight, 25 to 250 years old, 20 lbs to 2000 lbs red, yellow, black or white, I don't care as long as they have a good personality, are fun, likeable, and willing to give me as much as I give them. So dream on about that part of your argument as it doesn't hold water.

 

Okay, now I apologize if you think that I was coming down on you, I wasn't, I was attacking your ideas. I disagree with them and always will but you may or may not be a great person. I don't know you, hopefully we can meet one day but until then it isn't you, okay? Have a great day.

 

Ted :)

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One other thing Kolonel, You can have all the opinions you want and you can express them all you want and in fact if anyone tells you different I would be one of the first to jump their s _ _ _ about it and I expect the same rights to be accorded to me.

 

Sincerely,

TED

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Yes it is their club but do the people within belong to them? So long as it isn't going to hurt someone and there is room then I believe that anyone should be allowed, that is my opinion and if they don't believe that and they want to discriminate then in my opinion they need to be discriminated against and maybe they will learn a lesson. I know, I'm dreaming again, they will never learn! But isn't that the truth about all bigots? And so I don't offend anyone unduly, a bigot is someone who discriminates for any reason and is intolerant of others whom he/she discriminates against.

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I'll go back to the original question, i.e., "Would you apply to get in...."

 

My answer is "No." Aside from the fact that they wouldn't accept me :D it's not my kind of attitude. I wouldn't apply to go to a "white collar professionals only" party either, on the same principle.

 

But I have no objection to those who choose to go....just not my personal cup of tea.

 

And yeah I think it's somewhat elitist and snobby. And maybe, even probably- the folks that go to something like that wouldn't mix well with me and the kind of people I like anyway :D

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Well there you have it. No one under 25. To me, that's just another arbitrary age qualification. So you do have your qualifications, as does everyone else. And if you threw a party and a bunch of 23 year olds wanted to come you might screen those guests carefully if not turn them down outright.

 

If screening for age and looks is bigotry, then screening out single men, which 95% of clubs do these days, is the worst kind of bigotry. But you know what? Some couples prefer the couples-only dynamic because that's what feels most comfortable to them, and who am I to judge someone for wanting to provide that kind of environment? And likewise, the young hotties want a space of their own. Those big clubs that cater to all will always be there and this can only introduce more people into the lifestyle, so what's there to bitch about?

 

By the by, your point about disability is off base. One of the most regular of party attendees I've met is a woman in a wheel chair. She is, however, hot and within the age range these events are looking to attract.

 

So would I go to this thing? I'd probably give it a try once. The screening I have been through in the past was 95% about making sure we were a real couple and generally not psychotic, so for that alone it can be worthwhile.

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Originally posted by thekolonel

Well there you have it. No one under 25. To me, that's just another arbitrary age qualification. So you do have your qualifications, as does everyone else. And if you threw a party and a bunch of 23 year olds wanted to come you might screen those guests carefully if not turn them down outright.

 

If screening for age and looks is bigotry, then screening out single men, which 95% of clubs do these days, is the worst kind of bigotry. But you know what? Some couples prefer the couples-only dynamic because that's what feels most comfortable to them, and who am I to judge someone for wanting to provide that kind of environment? And likewise, the young hotties want a space of their own. Those big clubs that cater to all will always be there and this can only introduce more people into the lifestyle, so what's there to bitch about?

 

By the by, your point about disability is off base. One of the most regular of party attendees I've met is a woman in a wheel chair. She is, however, hot and within the age range these events are looking to attract.

 

So would I go to this thing? I'd probably give it a try once. The screening I have been through in the past was 95% about making sure we were a real couple and generally not psychotic, so for that alone it can be worthwhile.

 

Bigotry has nothing to do with the idea of self preservation and protection. Whether or not I agree with the laws or not in California it is a fact that 17 can get you 25 and 16 can get you life. Therefore anyone who doesn't have an age stipulation with that in mind is in my opinion a very stupid individual, and the idea that bigotry and self preservation/protection is one and the same is also the sign of either a very uneducated or stupid person. I assume that you are neither so why go down that street? I will always protect myself and my family whether or not I believe it is necessarily the right thing that I have to do in order to maintain that protection. Please get a life and quit trying to point out other people's prejudice in order to justify your own. You know in your heart that it is bigotry to qualify people on the basis of looks and age for any reason other than legal or moral. So please don't go there again, it truly makes you sound like less of a person than I would like to believe you are.

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Perhaps part of the problem is the rather subjective viewpoint of whos is "attractive enough" to be invited. Age requirements, are at least somewhat objective in that at least there is no argument over whether you are under 30, or over 30.

 

Being subjectively screened out as not "pretty enough" is tough medicine for most of us I think.

 

Reminds me of the guy who judges show girl applicants for breast shape, size, and perkiness. Looking for the right tit for the fit- so to speak....:D

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Originally posted by Nymph an' Satyr

Perhaps part of the problem is the rather subjective viewpoint of whos is "attractive enough" to be invited. Age requirements, are at least somewhat objective in that at least there is no argument over whether you are under 30, or over 30.

 

Being subjectively screened out as not "pretty enough" is tough medicine for most of us I think.

 

Reminds me of the guy who judges show girl applicants for breast shape, size, and perkiness. Looking for the right tit for the fit- so to speak....:D

 

Sounds to me like Nymph an' Satyr hit on the crux of the entire thing. Being screened out for appearance is definitely "tough medicine" and, I believe, can be such a hurtful thing for some.

 

We all have our own "internal" qualifiers for everything we do. Friends we associate ourselves with at work, home, play...everywhere we go. My friends are in my age range. Not because I don't think those younger (20's, 30's) don't have value, but because we simply don't have the same interest. But even "young" people serve a purpose and have a role in my life. If nothing else, they help keep me younger in outlook and attitude.

 

I'm also somewhat resentful of any establishment/club/school/work environment that limits my ability of choice. For me, that is almost akin to saying that I don't have the ability to make my own decisions or to decide what is best for me.

 

While I may choose not to "play" with certain people or certain "types," I really enjoy the exposure to lots of different types of people. But I take more away from the idea of swinging than others. For me, it isn't just about sex but also about interaction, talking to others with similar ideas about sexuality...things that I can't find with my regular friends. Someone else said earlier - here or somewhere - that swinging is different things to different people. And that is it in a nutshell. We all see it differently and experience it differently and need and want different things. None of those differences make one way right, another wrong. Those differences just make us unique. Which goes full-circle back to the reason I personally do not believe in the screening process based on looks, age, weight, etc. My opinions only...

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Ted, it is easy to determine in short order whether someone under 25 is of legal age, unless you are specifically pursuing "barely legals", which men over 21 probably shouldn't be doing anyway. One of my play partners is 21, she graduated college and is entering a masters program, has valid ID, etc. Never for a minute have I harbored doubts that she might be 16 or 17. Frankly that's laughable and has never been an issue with anyone I've ever met. So "protecting" yourself by never interacting with anyone under 25 is pure idiocy.

 

There is real bigotry in the world that affects people's ability to get jobs, vote, associate freely, etc. Your sense of entitlement is astounding. It's frankly insulting to anyone who has faced real bigotry that you've elevated attending someone's private sex party to the level of a basic human right. So what? No one is obligated to see anyone else naked, nor play with anyone else. So someone didn't let you into their little party. Boo hoo. I have no sympathy for you, especially given your condescending tone. The crux of the issue is that you want in, and you feel bitter about it. Other people here seem to have a much healthier attitude.

 

EBF and Nymph, you have some good points. Being judged based on a subjective factor like attractiveness can be tough medicine. But in reality it happens every day. Not everyone is going to find you physically attractive. But so what? Rejection, for whatever reason, comes hand in hand with pursuing sex partners. It's happened to all of us, especially those of us who have spent substantial time in the dating world. Like I said before, the existence of screened play parties can only add to the pool of swingers who might go on to try other things.

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Originally posted by thekolonel

So "protecting" yourself by never interacting with anyone under 25 is pure idiocy.

 

I'm going to take exception to your use of the phrase, "is pure idiocy," Kolonel. Not only is such a remark inconsistent with the demeanor of this board, it's non-productive and it's downright insulting to a person who has shown intelligence and a caring attitude in his posts. Ted has been very kind in his response to your postings, some of which some of us might find less than well thought-out.

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Like I said before, the existence of screened play parties can only add to the pool of swingers who might go on to try other things.

 

m'kay.... SO....I, as a person deemed 'attractive' enough for the invitation only after club party pay an entry fee and byob...may at some point do what.....attend a swinger club that my first club deems full of unattractives? I truly can't see that happening if I've applied to and been accepted by an elitist and yes discriminatory group. You can bet grandma that the discussions and conversations will NOT be about variety in the swinger community. It will be about how they are the cream of the crop and thank GAWD they all found each other.

 

I have no issues with people posting personal ads looking for certain qualities like 8" or big tits, or even ads that state fit and attractive only .... we don't respond...easy squeezy. Nothing wrong with asking for what you want, one on one. Making it a community wide 'thing' isn't kewl. What I DO have an issue with is an organized swinger event that is restricted to only people the organizers deem 'attractive' enough. They give an age range and they state height and weight proportionate. People have to apply and send in full body pics. It doesn't end there though.. no sir. They then have to be personally interviewed, so there is an unknown element of 'attractiveness' that will be determined only by the organizers.

 

I just see white sheets and hoods and segregation in the swinger community. Never a good thing.

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They have all the right in the world to limit their invitiations to those they deem beautiful.

 

I'd have no interest in applying and in my opinion, the shallow deserve each other.

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Originally posted by Alura

I'm going to take exception to your use of the phrase, "is pure idiocy," Kolonel. Not only is such a remark inconsistent with the demeanor of this board, it's non-productive and it's downright insulting to a person who has shown intelligence and a caring attitude in his posts. Ted has been very kind in his response to your postings, some of which some of us might find less than well thought-out.

 

Ted has been "kind"?

 

Let me get this straight, Alura. It's okay for Ted to use phrases like "get a life" and "anyone who thinks X must be stupid" but it's not okay for me to think something is pure idiocy? Ted's telling me I'm a bigot, to get a life, that I'm just afraid of getting older, that I'm stupid to date people under 25 and generally implying I'm an idiot for having my beliefs. Yes, those are such PRODUCTIVE and WELL-THOUGHT-OUT responses to my postings. Ted was all over me from the point I expressed my simple preference. Show me where my posts have been anything BUT well-thought-out. Don't you dare come galloping in on your high-horse, bearing down on me with your selective outrage.

 

I haven't seen anyone but EBF and one or two others attempt to engage me in some real dialogue (and for that I am truly grateful). A lot of you just hate it--it really eats you up--that my preferences are different, and that there are others like me. Underlying the ostensibly polite discourse around here is a smugness, insularity and moral authority that prevents people from engaging issues like these with any substance. It's the same shallowness and elitism that many of you profess to be so afraid of.

 

Like I said in my last post, so what? It's someone's private sex party, not a voting booth. If I don't want to see you naked I have no obligation to invite you to a party. This isn't any different than throwing a sex party at my house and only inviting the people I am physically attracted to. If the other guests don't like my definition of attractiveness they have the right not to come.

 

And again, I think it is shameful that some people on here who enjoy relatively privileged lives are trying to conflate their quest for sexual gratification with some kind of civil rights movement. My father grew up black in the segregationist South. My mother's family was threatened by the Nazis. Don't try to feed me some bullshit about this being some great struggle for civil rights. It rings false and makes you sound small.

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My father grew up black in the segregationist South. My mother's family was threatened by the Nazis. Don't try to feed me some bullshit about this being some great struggle for civil rights. It rings false and makes you sound small.

 

you've just got a little bit of everything in ya, doncha :D

 

so how come you get to say

 

A lot of you just hate it--it really eats you up--that my preferences are different, and that there are others like me.

 

yet I don't get that same consideration from you.

 

, I think it is shameful that some people on here who enjoy relatively privileged lives are trying to conflate their quest for sexual gratification with some kind of civil rights movement.

 

gee... were you referring to MOI?? :eek: I don't live a privileged life, I am not on a 'quest for sexual gratification' and I'm sorry..... have we met??

 

If we can stop with the insults and outrage, I'd like to say that my concerns over this 'beautiful people only' organization is that it segregates people within the swinger community. As you say, no one is being forced to have sex with others, there is always choice. Well...up until this beautiful people only thing.

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Originally posted by OhioCouple

This is one of those kind of subjects that can get people riled for mostly no reason. Goodness knows we have had several here regarding HWP, bi-sexuality---male and female, etc.

 

This is what I have learned in the two years of reading this board. It's different strokes for different folks. What I may not agree with, hundreds of others may. It is how I express myself and my beliefs that makes a difference. It's taken me quite a while to learn that and I still fail on occasion.

I wanted to quote myself on this first portiion of my post in this thread.

 

Let's face it ya'll. We all have preferences, expectations and most importantly, we have choices. We have the freedom to choose who we associate with, and who we don't prefer to. And just because it isn't right for you, doesn't mean that your way is the only way.

 

Please keep that in mind in your postings.

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Originally posted by OhioCouple

I wanted to quote myself on this first portiion of my post in this thread.

 

Let's face it ya'll. We all have preferences, expectations and most importantly, we have choices. We have the freedom to choose who we associate with, and who we don't prefer to. And just because it isn't right for you, doesn't mean that your way is the only way.

 

Please keep that in mind in your postings.

 

And to follow up on Ms. O's comments a little further...she notes preferences expectations, choices........but we all have opinions, too. Not a single one of us can be faulted for the opinion we own. It is ours. None of us need agree with others opinions, and there is nothing wrong with saying so. "I do not agree with your opinion and this is mine." Simple as that. We can arrive at as many different opinions as there are members of this Board.

 

But attempting to engage in heated debate and argument is fruitless, particularly when we allow those debates to become and to continue as personal issues between the debaters. In fact, the point of the original debate is often lost.

 

I've said it many times...I enjoy reading others opinions. I welcome their opinions. Sometimes I change my opinions partially or fully given new information. Sometimes I totally disagree with others opinions and I will say so. But I will always, I hope, allow them their opinion. And if I don't allow that, I expect to be called on it.

 

So why don't we kind of leave the arguments here? Not the opinions. Just the arguments. No one will ever win. "Choose your battles wisely."

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Originally posted by yawanna

What I DO have an issue with is an organized swinger event that is restricted to only people the organizers deem 'attractive' enough.

 

Yeah, this is what I find distatsteful about it too. There is a difference in being rejected by a couple and being rejected by an organization. But again, there's a good chance these aren't people that I would hang with anyway.

 

I would NOT equate this with a civil rights issue. BIG difference. Remember, we have the right of free association.

 

I say let the shallow sort themselves out, it leaves more people of substance (pun intended) for the rest of us :D

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To preface this and show you guys I'm human too, my gf and I had a playdate scheduled for tomorrow with this woman (not the 21 yo). Seemed really sweet, the kind of person we'd want to become friends with. Well, she just ended this self-improvement seminar this week and committed to telling the truth. Calls my gf tonite and says she doesn't want to play because she's not physically attracted to me. So yeah, it happens to me too. It sucks when you get rejected over your looks, but it happens to just about everyone. I guess this is why I don't understand how some of you can be so shocked and upset over the "beautiful people" events.

 

Yawanna, actually, most of my crankiness over the "segregation" thing is directed at Ted, who felt the need to bring up the issue of bigotry in an attempt to paint me as the devil. If people stop attacking me personally (and that means no more thinly veiled insults like "you cant believe that, because if you do you must be stupid and I know you're not stupid") over what I believe I'll be happy to end the outrage. But right now it's apparently :slam" on me time and as such I'm not going to pull punches.

 

I know what you are getting at, Y, but perhaps there are better words for it than sheets and hoods. That doesn't seem like a fair comparison since swinging, while great and all that, isn't nearly as important as, say, being able to walk down the street without getting lynched. This comparison just strikes me as being in poor taste.

 

And, Y, if there weren't a quest for sexual gratification involved it wouldn't be swinging, it would be a sewing circle. I know there's more to it than genitals rubbing together but it is play (looked at versus polyamory anyway) and play ain't that serious. Again, just drawing a contrast between having the right to attend a particular sex party and having the right to be served at your local Red Lobster.

 

Yeah, in the end its about choice. And if these "beautiful" people choose to stick together, well, then that's their choice. I'm sure you're not actually missing out on much, nor are they.

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I know what you are getting at, Y, but perhaps there are better words for it than sheets and hoods.

 

maybe there are, and those are the words I chose :D because that's the way I see it.

 

Rejection is all part of swinging...No means No. Ask people if they want to play with you, they can say No. Take that a step further and make an assumption that there is an untapped market of attractive people with $$ to be taken. Now you could be rejected by an entire group

 

Because the organizers don't consider you 'attractive'... you never even get to meet the other people and be rejected one on one :D

 

My original post was 'is this swinging?' and I don't think it is because it limits choice and options. If beautiful people want to get together, there's a LONG history of informal groups that meet via clubs, ads, word of mouth and they meet on a regular basis.

 

I guess it's just that it was never flat out stated before. You went to clubs or events and if people were interested, they invited you back to the hotel or their home, or arranged to meet later. It's just so blatantly discriminatory to say 'attractive' people only as who's to say what different people will find attractive.. NO...you have to be personally interviewed and arbitrarily deemed attractive, or not.

 

It just seems to be an attempt at some sort of hierarchy within swinging, whereas before, swinging was about openness, and honesty, and free will and diversity, choices and options.

 

If this 'beautiful' people only shit takes root, I think swinging is in a lot of trouble.

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Originally posted by thekolonel

Ted has been "kind"?

 

Let me get this straight, Alura. It's okay for Ted to use phrases like "get a life" and "anyone who thinks X must be stupid" but it's not okay for me to think something is pure idiocy? Ted's telling me I'm a bigot, to get a life, that I'm just afraid of getting older, that I'm stupid to date people under 25 and generally implying I'm an idiot for having my beliefs. Yes, those are such PRODUCTIVE and WELL-THOUGHT-OUT responses to my postings. Ted was all over me from the point I expressed my simple preference. Show me where my posts have been anything BUT well-thought-out. Don't you dare come galloping in on your high-horse, bearing down on me with your selective outrage.

 

I have to stick to my guns on this one, Kolonel. I just went back and re-read Ted's remarks. Except for the "get a life" quote, you've consistently misrepresented what he actually wrote.

 

Big'ot, n. One who holds irrespective of reason, & attaches disproportionate weight to, some creed or view.

 

My understanding of Ted's opinion is that there is little difference between refusing service to someone because they are not "pretty" and doing so because they are not white. For many years in the United States, restaurants posted signs that read, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" and used that for justification to not serve African-Americans (and often Native-Americans). There's no law against refusing service to people who are not pretty but that doesn't erase the bigotry.

 

Frankly, my wife and I think clubs are a waste of time and would never go to one to have sex with strangers, no matter how pretty they might be. I don't know why I bothered to post on this thread. Maybe I'll go back and read my first post to see if I can remember, maybe not.

 

Your personal preferences are not germane to a discussion about whether or not only pretty people should be admitted to a club.

 

Thanks for the "high-horse" metaphor. It reminds me of a day long ago when some of my distant cousins "galloped in" on another pretty Colonel, also known for his bigotry.

 

"Selective"? No, I don't think so. "Outrage"? No, not even that.

 

 

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I just started reading this post and was amazed to see some of the animosity here!! Sigh... I have to admit that when I first read the article in Playboy about "exclusive swinging clubs, for attractive people only" I was super upset! I have to say now, after having thought it over and talking with my friends, well, it comes down to choice!

 

If you want to go to one of those clubs...GO... all the more power to you! If you don't, DON'T and again, all the more power to you. I personally know I would never be admitted to one of those kinds of clubs... It would definitely hurt my feelings because I didn't live up to a certain criteria of being attractive, but then my thoughts moved to... Well, I am still a special person and very likable (I hope anyways...lol) and that is okay...I will meet someone somewhere and have fun...they don't have to be super attractive, or super ugly or super old, or super young...they just have to be someone I like!!! And that is what playing comes down to...

 

Kolonel... chill K? Ted seems like he has been in this lifestyle for awhile...I think he was just trying to tell you what his feelings were, and wasn't taking a direct hit at you...It might have seemed that way, but really... I just saw it as kind of advice... that was all...This board, (and really, I have been on it very very shortly) is for information and help. It seems to me that this thread was about whether or not should someone go to one of these clubs and somehow it got off course.

 

So perhaps the answer is... Do you want to try and see what this club is about? Do it! If you feel it is what you want...enjoy, have fun... Not all attractive people are about their looks, I have met many that are fun and enjoy life and are curious...Nobody is different I guess what I am trying to say...Turn us all inside out and you have the same thing...

 

K...I am done

 

Female half of impishcpl

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      The first was that she’d spin away from the man; it signified she wasn’t interested in what he had to offer.
       
      The second was that she’d get closer, I’d watch her whisper in his ear. I knew the question, “Where’s your wife?” Some of them would shake their heads, they were attending as one of the few single men the club allowed, and when they received Mary’s response, they’d move away - that’s not what we were looking for at the moment.
       
      But the man might indicate where his wife was dancing a few feet away. When this kind of thing happened, Mary would glance to me and give our special signal - she’d put one hand on the back of her head, one on her stomach. When I got the cue, I’d come out, we’d dance as a foursome.
       
      As I approached, a man grasped the elbow of a tall attractive lady who was more modestly dressed, at least for the club. There was no conversation on the dance floor, the heavy volume of music and the thumping of the bass wouldn’t allow for speech. But I could tell the woman was interested in me, the four of us paired off and I often found myself facing this vixen. It was obvious they were as interested in us as I was in them, I could tell by the way Mary was rubbing against the man that she felt the same.
       
      After a couple of songs, Mary led the way off the floor, holding his hand, leading us off into a corner away from the speakers. As we sat, the man said, “I’m Ed, this is my wife, Marilyn.”
       
      Marilyn and I softly shook hands, I believe she raised the hem of her skirt to give me a view of her upper thighs. Ed had no problem seeing Mary’s legs, or where they met - she was sitting so that the babydoll was gathered to her side, leaning forward so her globes were exposed to his view.
       
      “Do you come here often?” Ed asked.
       
      “Every few weeks,” I responded, “you?”
       
      “This is our first time here.” Mary gave him a look that asked for further info. “We’re just starting this,” he admitted.
       
      Marilyn picked it up. “We’ve only had one time with a couple of friends. We liked it, heard about this place, decided to see if we could get into more trouble.”
       
      “Trouble’s our middle name,” I joked.
       
      Our conversation continued, where do you live, what movies have you seen lately, etc. It was a screen, of course, we were all calculating if the four of us would be pleasurable bedmates. I paid my attention to Marilyn, my wife had told me numerous times not to worry about her, she can take care of herself. My hand found Marilyn’s knee, she smiled at me, encouraged me to reach a tad higher. We bent towards each other, our mouths met.
       
      Marilyn opened her lips to me, the kiss was ardent, her mouth moist. She licked at my upper lip, her hand fondled the back of my neck. Our tongues clashed, promising cupidity, mimicking what I presumed our bodies might be doing in a few scant moments.
       
      We broke for a moment, Marilyn invited, “Would you guys want to go to one of the rooms?”
       
      I, of course, was all for it, but then I heard Mary. “Uh, not right now. But thanks.”
       
      We’ve always had the guideline that if one person doesn’t want to do something, she speaks for both of us. Regretfully, I pecked at Marilyn’s lips a last time, we stood, went separate ways.
       
      “You’re not upset, are you?” Mary asked me.
       
      “Of course not, not at all. You’re not in the mood?”
       
      “Oh, I’m in the mood all right, just not with Ed.”
       
      “Something wrong with him?” I asked.
       
      “I tried to get him interested,” Mary revealed, “but his kiss was a little cold, indifferent. I put my hand on his leg, he was too busy watching you and Marilyn, he never responded. My guess is that if we went into a room, he’d be watching you two, I’m not even sure he’d get hard for me.” It was a reasonable thought, it had happened to us a couple times before. “Hope you don’t mind, bet she’d have been a firecracker.”
       
      “Maybe. But you’re a firecracker too.”
       
      We headed back to the dance floor, in search of another couple.
    • By Ntexcouple
      I have posted several stories about Dee’s and my adventures in the swinging lifestyle. Then, I lost the love of my life to a drunk driver. I never knew a hurt as bad as losing the one person that gave meaning to my very soul. The first year I was just getting by, living if you want to call it that, day to day. I would wake up, go to work, come home, and sit outside drinking and feel sorry for myself. I still had friends that Dee and I had made, and they would try to get me out from time to time, but I just felt I was the odd man out, and it was more of a pity fuck than anything else was.
       
      Sue and Don were our best friends in the lifestyle, and they tried their best, but without Dee, I just couldn’t get back into it anymore. One Saturday, I was at home setting out by the pool, drinking, and, as usual, feeling sorry for myself when Sue showed up. She walked into the backyard, took one look at me, and gave it to me with both barrels.
       
      She said that Dee was dead, and as much as we loved her, that was not going to change. She is dead, and she is gone, and the way I was living my life, I might as well be dead also. Dee loved life, and she would not want me to be living like I was. She told me it was time for me to move on and start living again. After about an hour of us talking and crying, she had to get back home. I sat there the rest of the afternoon, thinking about what she had said and how true it was. Dee would not want me moping around, just like if I had been killed in that crash; I would want her to get on with her life. I set the beer down and just thought of all the things Sue had said. I called her that night and told her she was right and it was time that I started living again. She said that they were going to go to a house party the next weekend, and they had a friend that wanted to meet me. She told me her friend had seen some pictures of me, and she would e-mail some pictures of her, and if I wanted, she would fix us up for the party. I agreed, and she sent the pictures of Nancy for me to look at.
       
      The pictures she sent were of Nancy clothed, and I know the pictures of me that Sue had were not clothed pictures but were pictures of some of the parties we had been to. So she had the advantage over me in that regard. Nancy is a good-looking woman about 7 years younger than me, 5’6"/7" tall. She had blond hair and a good-looking body, from what I saw in her swimsuit picture. I called Sue the next day and told her that I would like to meet Nancy. She gave me her phone # and said she was expecting a call from me. She also said to be at their house at 6:30 Friday night, and we would all go to the party together.
       
      I called Nancy, and we talked for about an hour just to get to know something about each other. She knew all about Dee from Sue and said she went through something like that 3 years ago. Her husband of 18 years just up and left her with twin boys to raise. She had been single a little more than a year when her sons went off to college, and she decided to start living her life for herself. She was upfront and outspoken and said that she had always liked sex, but over the years, it had become predictable and ho-hum with her husband until he left. She told me that she got into swinging with a friend from work and her husband. She found that she liked the excitement of having sex with different people, both men and women, and she was not looking for a husband, just a fuck buddy. I agreed with her and told her I was not looking for a life partner but just needed to start living again.
       
      As Friday approached, I began to get nervous about going to the party. I knew several of the couples that were going to be there because Dee and I had been with them for some time or another. Even the thought of fucking Sue, no matter how many times she and I had fucked each other, made me nervous. I stopped by Don and Sue’s house Thursday night after work and told them I did not think I could go thou with it. We were sitting at their bar, and Sue told me I was just nervous about meeting Nancy. She said that I already knew most of the couples that would be there and I just needed to relax.
       
      Sue then took my hand and told me to come with her. She walked me into the den in front of the couch and undid my pants, and pushed them down to my knees. She then told me to sit down and got on her knees in front of me. She reached into my underwear and started to stroke my dick. I could feel my dick responding to her soft touch when she said to just close my eyes and relax and enjoy. With that, she pulled my underwear down to my knees and started to lick my hard shaft and balls. When her tongue left my balls and started up my shaft, her left hand would start holding and roll my balls around oh so softly. As her tongue got to the head of my dick, her right hand would start to stroke my shaft. Her mouth opened, and she took the head of my dick in her mouth and swirled her tongue around it. I had almost forgotten how hot her mouth felt when she would suck my dick or how good she was at it. She knew just what she was doing and how to please a man with her tongue, mouth and hands.
       
      I opened my eyes to watch her head bob up and down and see my dick disappearing and reappearing from her mouth. I saw Don sitting at the bar, just watching his wife suck another man's dick. This was not the first time Don has seen his wife suck my dick, but in the past, he was with Dee or any of the other ladies in our little group. If not, he was most likely helping me with Sue, either licking her pussy or fucking her while she sucked my dick. But to watch him sitting there fully dressed while she was sucking me was a little strange and comforting at the same time. I realized just how good of friends they both were.
       
      I started to feel my climax grow deep down. I guess it had been a while, and I felt a rush of heat as I started to shoot my cum in Sue’s mouth. She sucked and stroked my shaft to get all she could out. I also forgot just how horny Sue got when she had a fresh load of cum shot in her mouth. She was humping my leg like a dog, and I could feel the heat of her pussy through both her pants and mine. As I tried to catch my breath, she looked up and asked if I was relaxed now. I told her that I was, and she said good, now go home and have a good night's sleep and they would see me at 6:30 Friday.
       
      Don started to protest that I could not come over and get his wife all hot and bothered and just leave him there alone to take care of her. Sue kissed me on the cheek and said yes, he can because he will need all his strength for when she and Nancy get a hold of me the next night.
       
      I stood up and redid my pants and told Don good luck, and as I was leaving, I heard Sue tell him to get his clothes off right now. She needed a good hard fuck.
       
      Friday came, and I arrived at Sue and Don’s house at 6:30 as planned. Nancy was not there yet, but Sue told me that we were not expected at the party until 8. Sue, Don, and I were sitting at their bar talking, and I asked where was this party we were going to and they said it was at a couple's house (Dan and Barbara) who they had met about 8 months ago. I did not know them, and I asked if they knew that I was coming, and without knowing me, were they ok with that. Sue told me that they knew and were fine with it, also that Robert and Cathy, and David and Joann would also be there, and that they all had vouched for me. Sue asked if I was still nervous, and I said yes I was.
       
      Meeting a lady for the first time, as a single, would make any man nervous, much less one you were going to a swinging house party with her as your date. Who would not be nervous? But knowing 3 couples that were going to be there helped somewhat. (Robert and Cathy were the first couple that Dee and I ever played with when we got into swinging, and David and Joann were part of the group that we got together with for about 3 years).
       
      Nancy arrived about 15 minutes later, looking stunning. She wore a low-cut gray blouse and a black skirt that stopped about halfway to her knees. Dark stockings and black high heels. She stood 5’7", about 135 lbs., and had legs to die for. Blonde hair, blue eyes, great smile, and very well-gifted up top. Her blouse was cut just right so that the mounds of her tits were showing down to the top of her nipples. She had an incredible tan line that went from a dark bronze color to almost show white ½" above her nipples. She was in her early 40’s, and I started to feel very nervous again. The four of us sat and talked until it was time to leave for the party, Sue ran and got her party bag, and we all loaded up in their SUV for the drive over. Nancy and I were going to sit in the back seat for the drive over, and as she was getting in, I saw she had on black garters that were holding up her stockings; with her low-cut blouse, I already knew she was bra-less, panty-less, well only time would tell.
       
      We arrived at the party, and I was introduced to Dan and Barbara. They are a nice-looking couple, early 40’s early 50’s, like most of the couples there. I saw that Robert and Cathy were already there, along with David and Joann. With a total of 10 couples there at the time, that made it 3 that I knew and 6 plus Nancy that I did not know. (I kept hearing Dee’s words; Mingle and meet, Mingle and meet over and over in my head).
       
      The party was going along like most house parties did, with people greeting one another, some snacks, some drinks, music, and dancing. Small groups standing around talking, a lot of flirting going on. As time went by, there were more people in different stages of undressed. A couple would be seen walking down the hall towards one of the bedrooms, more couples would be going out to enjoy the hot tub on the patio. Everyone was having a good time excluding myself. I had almost forgotten how at ease one could be and how much fun it was to be around people that thought of recreational sex the same as Dee and I did.
       
      (You see someone and you say, "I would like to fuck that person" They look at you and say, " I would like to fuck that person", and the two of you get together and fuck. Both enjoy it, and that is that. Your spouse knows about it and, most of the time, is there to enjoy it with you if not joining in. No jealousies ,no hard feelings, no fights, and most of all, no means no. But in the back of my mind, I kept thinking that I am now a single man in a couple’s lifestyle.)
       
      I was talking to a couple when I looked towards the area that had been set aside for dancing, where I saw Nancy, Joann, and Barbara all dancing together. All three had shed their blouses and were giving one hell of a sexy dance performance. I knew from what I could see from her low-cut blouse that Nancy had a nice set of tits, but to see her dancing topless they were great. They were round and firm with nipples that stood out ¾". At 43 years of age, they were more than likely bought, but real or Memorex, I did not care. I just wanted to suck on them. Her stomach was flat and firm and showed that she took care of herself at the gym. She still had her skirt on, but those long legs and that flat-toned stomach just started me to think how beautiful the meeting place must look.
       
      When the song ended, Nancy walked over to me and put her arms around my neck and kissed me. She looked me in the eyes and said, let's go. I want to have you alone first, and I had no problem with that. We walked down the hall and checked the first two bedrooms and found them occupied. The master bedroom was at the end of the hall, and when we opened the door, we saw Sue and Dan had already gotten there. We started to close the door, and Dan said to come on in. There was more than enough room on the bed; he and Sue only needed half of it.
       
      Nancy put her arms around my neck and kissed me, and whispered that she wanted me naked. At this point, she started to unbutton my shirt. I felt her firm breast pressing against my chest as I ran my hands down her sides. Her skirt had no snaps but was held up by the elastic waistband. It was just a matter of hooking my thumbs under the waistband and stretching it out a little so it would slide down her long legs. Just as I had suspected, she was panty-less. As she undid my pants, I cupped one of her tits in my hand and lowered my mouth to her nipple. My other hand found her wet hot pussy, and I started to finger fuck her with ease. Her hands had pushed my pants down to my knees, and she was stroking my swollen cock with both of her hands. I could hear her breathing getting heavier with each passing moment as I sucked her nipple and fingered her sweet wet hole. She looked me in the eye and pulled my head closer to hers for a long sexual kiss. She started slowly going down to her knees, all the while kissing my chest and stomach. When she reached my now rock-hard shaft, she cupped my balls and the base of my dick in both hands and opened her mouth to take its head into her mouth.
       
      As I stood there getting this magnificent blow-job from this woman, I looked over to the bed. Sue and Dan had moved to the sixty/nine position, and Sue was sucking his cock like she did mine the night before. Dan had his face buried between Sue’s legs, licking her sweet pussy for all its worth. He had his hands spreading it as far as he could to get his tongue in as deep as he could. I remembered just how good Sue’s pussy tasted when she would come, and she always came from a good licking. I wondered just how Nancy’s pussy would taste and did she enjoy it as much as Sue. It would not be much longer before I would find out because of the way she was sucking my dick and watching Sue and Dan, I started to unload in her mouth. My first squirt was deep inside her mouth; the second one she had pulled back but had her mouth open so that it landed in her mouth but mostly on the tongue. As she was swallowing the first two loads, the third hit her closed lips and started to run down her chin. She wiped it off with her finger and then cleaned her finger with her tongue. She stood up and looked me in the eye, and said thank you, we kissed deep and long, and then I told her it was my turn. As she landed down on the bed, I removed my shoes, socks, and pants. She was on her back naked except for her garters and stockings.
       
      I laded down beside her and started to kiss her gently on the neck; slowly, I worked my way down to her nipples, where I sucked and nibbled on each one of them. All the while, I was running my fingers in and out of her hot wet pussy. Her pussy was neatly shaved with just a puff of blond hair left above it. I have always preferred a little hair left instead of an all-shaved pussy, (I wondered if Sue had told her that and she shaved that way just for me). I was working my way down to her honey pot, and she was opening her legs for me. I normally like to work a woman by kissing, nibbling, and sucking on the inside of their legs before I dive into pussy licking. That always seemed to bring their tension up a notch, so when I did go for the gold, they were more than ready for it. With Nancy having her garters and stockings on, that kind of blocked that approach. I soon found out that she did not need that step of foreplay; I also found out that she was anything but a quiet climaxer. I had no sooner started licking, sucking, and nibbling her pussy than she started humping and screaming and cumming. She was begging me to fuck her right then, I needed a little more time to recoup from my climax before I could go on, and she didn’t seem to want to give it to me. I looked from between the legs, and I don’t know if Sue saw the whipped dog look in my eyes or if she was so turned on by Nancy's pleading for a hard fucking or what, but Sue came to my rescue once again.
       
      Sue was on top of Dan, and he was hammering away at her for all he was worth. Sue leaned over and started kissing Nancy and telling her to let it come. I was still down licking her pussy and thinking, "Let this climax run its course, and things will settle down till I recover and can produce again. With Sue's kissing and sucking Nancy's tits and Nancy sucking on Sue’s tits and a double effect. Dan announced that he was coming, and I felt myself coming back into the game. As I slid back up on Nancy to where I could enter her, Sue sat back up on Dan and started riding him hard. She was about to have her own climax and needed to concentrate on that. Just as I put the head of my dick to Nancy’s pussy she said NO, not this way; she pushed me off and got on her hands and knees and said do me from behind; I like it this way the best.
       
      I have no problem with doggie style, so I got behind her and guided the head of my dick into her pussy. I normally like to start slowly, but Nancy told me to do it hard and fast. So I jammed it into the hilt. She instantly started to rock back and forth, and it took a couple of seconds to get into her rhythm, but I got there and was on the in-stroke when she was rocking back and on the outstroke when she was going forward. Like I said before, you know when Nancy comes, everybody knows when Nancy comes, and it did not take long for her to come doggie style.
       
      After she came down from her climax, her body just went limp, and she sank onto the bed face down. Ok, I understand about fast climaxes; been there and done that a time or two myself, but this is the first time I had experienced it happening with the woman I was with. Normally it’s the man that has this happening. I lay down beside her and put my arm around he, and kissed her on her shoulder. I can hear and feel her breathing hard, but that is all the response I get. I look over and Sue is still riding Dan’s dick. I see that glazed-over look in her eyes, one that I have seen many times before, and I know that she won’t last much longer. Just then, I see Dan arch his back and drive into Sue as deep as he can go, his hands are pulling Sue down onto his shaft, and I know that he is releasing his load into her. Sue is wide-eyed and tells him Yes, give it to me, and I know from being there that she has also reached her climax. I lay there and watched her rock back and forth as Dan kept his back arched to give her as much dick as he could. I know the feeling of her pussy muscles on a dick, and I know what he is feeling at this moment. They are constricting and relaxing, constricting and relaxing as she rocks back and forth. Milking every bit of his juice out that they can. I watch as they slow down, and then Sue collapses onto Dan’s chest; she starts that silly giggle that lets you know that you did a good job.
       
      Sue rolled onto her back next to Nancy and looked at me, and asked if I was enjoying myself, and I told him yes. Dan said he needed a drink and asked if any of us wanted one. Sue wanted a margarita, Nancy wanted a glass of ice water, and I said I could use a beer. As Dan was off to get the drinks, the three of us sat up in the bed, the women sat cross-legged, and I just slid up between them and used the headboard as a backrest. I could smell the must of just fucked pussy in the air. There were two women sitting crossed-legged with their pussies open for all to see, and I still had a hard-on. Sue spoke first and said to Nancy, " Did I not tell you he was a good fuck or not" At that point, I could have crawled under the bed, except that Sue was now rubbing my hard dick. Nancy agreed and said that she can’t wait to go again. Sue said that the night was young, but Nancy would just have to wait her turn now because she was next. Thank god Dan showed up with the drinks.
       
      The four of us sat there talking and sipping our drinks. We could hear the party going on in the other part of the house with the music and the occasional orgasm from one of the partygoers or another. Sue asked if we knew where Don was, and Dan said he saw him with Joann, to which Sue said, "Well, he will be occupied for a while". All this time, Sue was stroking my hard cock, then she said that it looked like I was ready to go again, and so was she. Nancy asked her if we could all do it like they did it at the last party. Sue looked at me and then back at Nancy and said that she thought it would be all right. I must have had a questioning look on my face because Sue told me that I would defiantly like this.
       
      Sue had me sit on the side of the bed with my feet on the floor. She then turned around and straddled me backward. I felt her guide my dick into her pussy as she sat down on my lap. " As exciting as the unknown is when having sex with a new partner, it is just as exciting as being in the know and having sex with someone that you have been with before. You know just what they like, and they know what trips your button; Sue knew just what to do to trip my button." She started to rotate her hips to give my dick that just-right grinding. Feeling her slow humping up and down along with the rotation was driving me insane. About that time, I felt a tongue wrapping around my balls and work up my shaft to where I was buried into Sue’s wet box. I looked around Sue to see Nancy on her hands and knees licking not only my balls and dick but also Sue’s wet pussy, and Dan was behind Nancy just fucking away. Sue started to rotate and moan, which caused me to shove up harder; Nancy was licking and sucking faster, which made Sue moan and rotate faster. It was like a snowball rolling downhill. The more it went on, the faster it got. I don’t know what was going on with Dan, and I did not care. I know that I came harder and longer into Sue’s pussy than I can ever remember doing. I remember falling back onto the bed with Sue laying on top of me and still feeling a tongue licking the both of us, and then I heard a far-off scream that said fuck me fuck yes fuck me.
       
      Sue was pulling on my arms and telling me it was time that we rejoined the party. We walked down the hall naked and into the den. We went to the bar, and I sat down on one of the stools. Sue went and got us both a drink and stood between my legs with her arms around my neck. She asked me what I thought of Nancy, and I told her that she was definitely different than any woman that I knew. She said that there was a long story behind that and she would tell me later, but not tonight, I laid my head down between her breast, and she was holding me and rubbing the back of my head when Don came walking up to join us.
       
      Don sat down on a stool, and Sue went over and put her arms around him and asked if he was having fun; I said that he looked like he had been road hard and put up wet. To which he came back with a one-word answer. " Joann". Sue and I just laughed, and I asked if she was still a whirlwind in bed, and he said that she was a man killer if you let her.
      Sue kissed us both and said that we men better get used to the whirlwinds because they are going to rule the world someday.
       
      Note from Jay:
      I have tried to express some of my feelings, thoughts, and happenings into the stories about how I got back into swinging after Dee’s death. I know that it is not your typical swing stories that you are used to reading here. I know that I have brought up couples out of the blue for those that have not been on this site for very long. There are stories posted by " Jay and Dee" that tells how we got started in the swinging lifestyle, how we found out that Don and Sue were swingers, and stories that were milestones in Dee’s and my journey into this wonderful lifestyle.
       
      A lifestyle that I thought had ended with Dee's death. A lifestyle of freedom, pleasure, understanding, and pure joy that I thought I would never be a part of again if it were not for Sue. Some might read into these stories that I have an infatuation with Sue. That is not true. I love Sue. If you go back and read The Surprise, you will know that I have known Sue since we were in elementary school. Her older brother was my best friend until we graduated high school; now, her husband is my best friend.
       
      If it were not for Sue and Don standing by me and pulling me out of my depression, getting me back into not only the lifestyle but life itself did I meet Pam.
       
      Pam is another story all together
       
      I lost Dee in 2004, and the stories about how I got back into the swing happened in 2006. In future stories, I will try not to go back too far into the past, but sometimes my thoughts go there, to a time, a place, or a person that is so important to me that I must bring it up for the story context.
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