Walking into a potentially tricky situation

[itsmrcurious 24]

Hello Swingers. Happy New Year to you all.

 

So I wanted to see if there was any advice from the community as my wife and I decide to take our 6th journey into the unknown. We have documented our last few in detail but this time thought I'd ask in advance ?

 

3 months ago, my wife and I went on our third couples date (sourced from the very awesome Red Hot Pie). First date was a disaster, second date was better, but no action (she nixed it) and the third date we got some Russian friends back to our hotel and had some fun together. I thought it went OK, my wife less so. I wrote about that here

 

So, I've completely ignored some of the wonderful advice on that last thread, and pushed for a second date with our Russian friends. I have a theory that everyone was kind of nervous and awkward on the first date, and so it didn't go as well as it could have. My wife said that she just doesn't find them attractive at all, that the age difference freaks her out (they are 15 years younger than us but have actually said that they think we are great and are really excited about a second date - she just doesn't want to play "teacher") and that she definitely doesn't want to see them again.

 

However, in exploring further, there are a couple of things that she's admitted to

 

1/ the lady of the couple is extremely attractive and the man seems to be a little in her thrall - not assertive enough - which is why she doesn't find him attractive and she's not really into girls

2/ she might be a little worried about me and the other lady - potentially concerned about what I might do and how she might react.

 

Anyhoo, I believe that my wife is a slow burner. She takes time to warm up to people and so I feel that we need to do a second date to see if it's different to the first (we have had 3 first dates and no second ones). We have been completely clear with the other couple that we are still unsure and nothing might happen and they are good with that, which has relaxed C considerably.

 

I have communicated clearly to her that I want nothing to do with the other lady sexually unless my wife is 100% OK with it. I will let her lead on this. They don't want anything more than soft swap, so this shouldn't be an issue.

 

The trouble is that we live in China and a swinging scene here is very, very hard to find. We both found these guys attractive before we met them, we had a fun time with them, but C's reaction was very very negative afterwards. I would like to see if we can get beyond this together.

 

What does everyone think? Am I insane? I figure the worst that can happen is that we realize that first impressions do matter and the C knows her mind better than I do

[adamgunn 1,456]

You're not insane, but you do seem a little foolish. You admit that you ignored our earlier advice, and the result was less than happy for you. Now you're back asking for our advice. Are you going to ignore it again?

 

It's very clear that your wife has certain feelings, and that you know about them. At the same time, you're trying to change your wife's attitude. Why? Trust me, if she's not happy, you won't be happy. Listen to your wife!

[GoldCoCouple 4,015]

We have a HARD 'no' rule. If either of us say no to another couple, then it's no for both of us regardless to how the other feels. If she isn't into the other guy, then you are just wasting your time and making her do something she isn't interested in...not a good plan. Finding a 4 way match is HARD. Trying to force something that isn't working to work is not going to make it work any better the second time, but IS a common mistake that most couples starting out make. Walk away and keep looking. Nobody said finding another couple would be easy, no matter how hard it is to find ANY couples. It just means you need to look harder...and ALWAYS listen to what your wife says. You don't want her to feel like she isn't being heard and stop communicating. Good luck, but in this case, listen to your wife.

[Jane1902 476]

Mr Curious I appreciate your admitting not following the advice here. I hope you make better choices or soon enough you will be writing saying you are newly divorced with swinging experience as a couple and now want advice on how to participate in the lifestyle as a single male. Save time, there are plenty of threads on that subject to read and please listen to your wife.

[enhancer 1,542]

You say you will let her lead on this one! She doesn’t find the man attractive and isn’t into women. She has already said she is not interested in getting together with them again. What more do you need to know to realize that pushing this to happen is a bad idea?

[padoc 1,696]

SWINGING LESSON NUMBER ONE:

The female makes the call!

There are multiple reasons for this but in simple terms, most men will stick their erection in any warm, wet, accommodating place that will have it. Women must let a partner INSIDE her. That's why she makes the call if you ever want to be successful in your marriage and in swinging.

[enhancer 1,542]

SWINGING LESSON NUMBER ONE:

The female makes the call!

There are multiple reasons for this but in simple terms, most men will stick their erection in any warm, wet, accommodating place that will have it. Women must let a partner INSIDE her. That's why she makes the call if you ever want to be successful in your marriage and in swinging.

 

This is correct.

[itsmrcurious 24]

Thanks all, I appreciate all of your thoughts. I don't think I've ignored any advice yet, but I am perhaps about to ignore it next week. Stopping comms with a couple that she said she didn't find attractive and letting her lead was the advice. My solution, to communicate further and deeper with my wife and to try and understand what's stopping us from experimenting a bit and trying new things (in this case a second date). The conversations are still good, I am sensitive to her needs (I hope). Let's see where this goes - wish me luck!

[Ozzie+Harriet 84]

The difference in how men and women are attracted to each other sexually is the curse of recreational sex.

[adamgunn 1,456]

You said in the original post, "So, I've completely ignored some of the wonderful advice on that last thread, and pushed for a second date with our Russian friends." Then you said this morning, " I don't think I've ignored any advice yet, but I am perhaps about to ignore it next week."

 

You're getting into Troll Territory. I, for one, will be ignoring your posts from here on out.

[itsmrcurious 24]

Hey Adam, no trolling intended.

 

The advice that I ignored was on the last thread - i.e. let the lady lead and let her organize the next date. I have actually organized a second date for next week with a couple that she said she wasn't really into or excited about. I explained my rationale and received some great insights on this thread, particularly from GoldCoastCo, who always takes the time and care to respond thoughtfully to all of my posts (thanks!)

 

It is very possible that I'm not communicating very well here - time poor and trying to get a lot of information across. Apologies if that's the case.

 

A few other bits and pieces that I don't think I've mentioned that might give more context to my thinking

 

1/ for someone that was quite sexually adventurous in her 20's, she's less clear now this part of her life - scared about harming our relationship, pragmatic side overriding emotional // hedonistic side.

 

2/ she has admitted that sexually she might have some submissive tendencies, but these sit firmly at odds with her everyday persona as a strong, progressive feminist lady.

 

3/ we had absolutely amazing sex after the Russian couple left our room the last time, and often (in role play and while watching porn) her body suggests she finds all of this incredibly sexy.

 

4/ she talks regularly that her biggest issue with all of this swinging business is that she's worried that (due to her very high standards) she will regularly let down the rest of us. She doesn't want to feel like a prude, like she's disappointing 3 other people that all seem happy to move forward. I've tried to convince her 100 times that my primary motivation is her happiness, and that as long as we are clear and open with the other couple, then nobody is letting anyone down, but she always like to be the open minded cool kid, so she's conflicted.

 

So I'm confused (which is why I'm asking for advice :-)). On the one hand, my wife finds the concept of swinging erotic and she is happy to go along with this journey. We always have fun and she appreciates that this is helping us address complex issues and improve our communication. She has submissive tendencies so I feel sometimes I need to take control and make tough decisions. On the other hand, she's nervous, finds the younger couple thing a bit overwhelming, and when she tries to process things ahead of time, she gets a bit freaked out.

 

Which leads me to this - I want to try a second date (for the first time) to see if my theory about the second date being easier for everyone works. She understands my intention, has said she trusts me completely, and we seem to be in a good place. But, she is also nervous, slightly resentful that I am pushing her in a direction that her pragmatic side says will be a disaster, and concerned that we are leading our Russian friends up the garden path.

 

I hope this explains better my thinking and sorry again if I came across troll-like

[Jane1902 476]

Trolls are always going to try to keep the conversation going. They have a tendency to adjust the story to justify their actions. It can even be entertaining. If any of its real it’s his marriage to fuck up and hope none of us cross ways.

[padoc 1,696]

You are a wise woman Jane!!

[Guest]

HI - itsmrcurious

 

I would probably back away from this couple.

 

If your wife has said she doesn't like them or doesn't feel comfy in some respect then its best to back away and not force the subject or perhaps your wife will think you will force things all the time I won't feel respected. I'd say the age difference probably plays a big factor, maybe your wife simply doesn't feel comfy with a women who is 15 years younger.

[itsmrcurious 24]

thanks Sun&Moon - appreciate the honest feedback. I think the 15 year age gap is an issue for sure, but again we struggle a bit for options living in China as we do, and so perhaps need to be a little more open minded about what works.

 

At any rate, the date was cancelled due to the novel coronavirus that we are dealing with here - as C said - it's probably fate :-)