Ultimatum: Let me sleep with another woman or I'm leaving

[mnsnen 15]

Okay, here is my story. I have been married for 8 years. Throughout these 8 years my husband gradually opened up about who he really was sexually. At 1st he kept his mouth shut b/c it had ruined many relationships and he wanted to change. After time with me he realized that his sexual desires were not something he could change. Needless to say, he fell in love with a good girl. I have old fashioned morals and values, however, I am a very open minded person and did not judge him for his desires. It all started coming out slowly. We would talk about him watching me have sex with another man. Simple things. Then as time went by he tried to get me to sleep with another man. I had no intrest. Because I am a "good girl" he has always felt guitly for the way he is. I try to keep him secure in knowing that I do not judge him. Our relationship started going sour over time. When I was pregnant with our 2nd child he cheated. One woman, 5 times. It was just sex. It broke my heart. I was devistated. We commited to fixing our relationship and fell in love all over again. Time went by and things got sour again. He started building up a wall and not opening up to me as much about his sexual desires. I honestly thought it was a phase and it had passed so I didnt know he was claming up. Of course we drifted apart AGAIN.

Well, we almost got a divorce again. He said he wants to make this work, but he gave me an choice. Let him sleep with other women or he was leaving. He said he knows he would end up cheating. The desire is just too strong. He doesn't want to hurt me so he is giving me the choice.

Truth be told, I love the man to death. I wish he wasn't like this but it is nothing I can change. I accept him, sexuality and all. I understand that He has strong sexual desires and that his "giving me a choice" isn't him being an ass hole, but that he really can't do this anymore and he wants me to be a part of his life and is being open and honest enough to let me make the choice. I respect that.

Now I DO NOT have any idea what to do. I told him okay. That I would find it in myself to make this work. I really feel like if it is JUST SEX, that I will be okay with it. But I am TERRIFIED that it will grow to more than just sex. We haven't had the best marriage and I am insecure. I am not insecure about him finding another woman sexy, that is fine. I am insecure about him falling for someone else. I love this man with everything I have and I DO NOT want to let him do this only to get my heart broke.

SO what I want to know is.....

Is there anyone on here that is married and only one of you participates in sex with other partners? Can it work if I am not involved? What ground rules should we lay to prevent this from ruining our marriage??? I want this to play a positive role in our marriage, not destroy it but I am friggin' clueless as to how to make this work.

He wants to have sex with the women he works with. I said "UM... NO" (except for one lady) because I feel this is where it could lead to problems. Should I say no, or am I only keeping him from what he really wants??

ANY help would be greatly appreciated.

[ohash01 20]

Ultimatums like that should NEVER be given. You shouldn't have to choose between letting your husband cheat and him leaving. It's unfair. You'll probably never be okay with it. If it had been something you two had decided TOGETHER...you could probably make it work. But he said "I need to have sex with others...too bad...don't care if it's okay with you...just letting you know."

 

I never thought I'd be saying this on these boards...but sexual addiction is a problem. There's a HUGE difference between being a swinger, being adventurous, being open...and what your husband is telling you he wants to do. Swinging is a joint decision. It sound to me like your husband may have a sexual addiction problem. I can't remember the address, but there's a wonderful "spouses of sexual addicts" page out there. My mother used it when my father when loco...I've used it when I ran into BFs with issues. I'll try to find it.

 

If you decide that you want him to stay with you and are okay with it, I wish you the best of luck. But if it were me...and J. was saying that to me...it'd be hard as hell, but I'd probably say "adios".

[MoonLightKiss 28]

Okay, first of all you BOTH (him too, so have him come read your post) need to realize that there is a BIG difference between agreeing to have an open relationship, or a swinging relationship and his ultimatum. And trust me, no matter how nicely he put it, this was an ultimatum. Anytime it is said "Either _____ or I will _____" its an ultimatum.

 

Let me say it is OKAY to be sexually adventurous. It is okay to not want to live a monogamous life. It is okay to sleep with people other than your spouse. It is also okay to be monogamous. It is not okay to give your spouse an ultimatum in order to get your own way. Its a form of manipulation. Agreeing to be swingers or have an open marraige relies heavily on honesty, trust, communication, and respect. Since from your post I gather none of these exist, then this won't work for you. What will happen over time is you will know where he is, resentment will build up until you are also cheating or you get divorced...or both.

 

You need to sit down and do some serious soul searching. Then you need to sit down with him and explain your feelings clearly. If you want a monogamous relationship, then tell him so and explain that you will not settle for less than the respect you have earned by being his wife and birthing his children. If he chooses to cheat, he chooses to live a life without you. I would also say start looking for a marraige counselor, one who is lifestyle friendly. They tend to not judge people based on their sexuality as opposed to some others. But make sure whomever you choose is a good one. Don't be afraid to shop around. Consider finding a counselor similiar to a major purchase like a home. You don't always go and buy the first one you see, and once you do buy one, years down the road, you may choose to sell it and get a different one. Don't be afraid to ask about their credentials and their counseling technique.

 

Good luck,

MLK

[intuition897 2,177]

Welcome to the board mnsnen! Glad you've found us.

 

I'm not a big fan of one-sided or "open" marriages, where one or both partners has said, "Look, whether you like it or not, I'm going to NEED to fuck other people. If you can't handle that - and I'm sorry if it hurts - you aren't going to be very happy living with me." It can be said in the most respectful way possible, but just the same...it is a case of putting one's self - one's sexual desires - ahead of one's spouse's/partner's needs. I just can't see a significant long-term relationship being built on self-centredness.

 

I was going to say this might border on polyamory, but he seems to keep saying that he just wants the sex, not the love. This is something you should probably explore further with him. Is he holding this back from you, for fear of hurting you? Is he just telling you that he doesn't want other emotional relationships? If one is truly polyamorous, it means that they are capable of and prefer multiple emotionally based relationships. This is part of their hardwiring. For them it is fair to say that they cannot control whom they fall in love with. But to say that he cannot control his sexual urges is preposterous.

 

Sex and food have many parallels. They are drives, they are healthy in moderation, they make you feel good... But when someone cannot be in the same room as a chocolate cake without eating the entire thing, we say that they have a problem. When someone is controlled by their cravings, they are considered addicted. There's a difference between hunger and appetite. Hunger is the body telling you you need to eat, because you will die if you don't; appetite is your mind sending the signal to your stomach to start growling because you've developed a habit of eating a chocolate cake whenever you see one. Need vs. desire.

 

I seriously doubt that your husband NEEDS to put his penis in another woman's vagina. He just really, really wants to, and he's gotten it into his head that, because he wants it so very badly...well...that must mean that he NEEDS it. The "need" that he has convinced himself of is nothing more than his own mind playing tricks on him. What I've found during our swinging is that the biggest obstacle we have to overcome is our own self. We are our own worst enemies. Welcome to swinging. Sounds like your husband has run smack into his first personal demon. I guess he wasn't far under the surface. This is something that you two should be taking up with a marital counsellor, seriously. Look for one that is experienced with and supprotive of alternative lifestyles.

 

Something else I'll mention: I see another problem for you on the horizon, and I'm afraid this one will land in your lap, Mrs. mnsnen. You didn't think you get away scot-free, did you now? lol

 

If you feel that anything but strict monogamy is wrong (AKA "sinful"), then sooner or later, you will need to wrestle your own demons. Can you stay happily married to a man who is doing something that you feel is a moral abomination? It means you will eventually have 3 choices. 1) Put up with it, and accept that you will live a life that you will regret. 2) Go your separate ways. You won't be together, but at least you will have been true to yourself. Or 3) Adjust your beliefs.

 

Personally, I'd go with #3. Most people think that's just blasphemous, but the thing is that I decided that I simply would believe any truth that was self-evident. I only believe what makes sense. So, for me, faith in God and Jesus Christ makes complete sense (otherwise it's a pretty empty and hopeless life to be living). And I believe that a marriage does not need to be monogamous to be happy; only respectful and selfless in nature. The biggest block I had was overcoming the fear of thinking for myself. A bit like being the child who said, "But the Emperor isn't wearing any clothes!" Once I got over that, things started to make a lot more sense to me, and I realized just how out of wack our cookie-cutter marriage actually was.

 

It would be helpful if we could hear Mr. mnsnen's side of the story, too.

 

EDIT>> And a big Dito to MoonLight's post!

[Mr. Truelove 81]

I agree with everything MoonLightKiss said.

 

Mr. Truelove

[mnsnen 15]

Man, you guys rock!! I love the honesty here. Thank you SOOO much for all your replies! (THis isn't something I can talk to about with just anyone) But I do think I should mention that when I said I am a good girl with certain morals and values, I don't want to be misunderstood. I am not a christian. I will not be going against something I REALLY can't deal with on a religious basis.

Also, I do understand that he probobly is a sex addict. He knows that too, to a degree. But he has refused help in the past to get help. (I don't think he is bad, he doens't sit around watching porn 24/7 or anything. Most of his desires occur while we are having sex, and with all the friggin' women he works with. )

And I also want to mention that when he 1st told me this (my chioce) my 1st reaction was HELL NO!! But the more I thought about it, the more ok I became.

Actaully a little excited by the idea. I guess the main thing that bothers me is the way he put it. That I had a choice and that was it. We had discussed swinging in the past, I usually played along just to excite him and he knew that. But HONESTLY it is something that I may have tried with the right couple.

I feel like everyone is attacking him. So, I just want to say that he is very good to me in many ways. I am NOT just saying that. He is a good husband. He isnt just some ass who is trying to get his way. He was just being honest with me. But maybe I am just a fool in love. I just think in reality, most men cheat and they do it b/c the urge is to strong. So why not just accept it. I know this sounds pathetic, but REALLY.....how many people do you know that have cheated? I know plenty, and that usually just leads to guilt and in turn that leads the relationship into real crap. So I feel like if I let him do this (only if I am ok with the person, time, etc.) that I won't be a "fool" in love. I will know. And we will take the relationship maintenance to the next level. I think in order to live this type of lifestyle you MUST put 110% in your marriage at all times. He and I both know this and I really think we will put extra effort into our relationship.

He shouldn't have gotten married. He knows that and I know that. But we did. Now we are in love and have this amazing family. There is just so much to loose just because of sex.

Well, I better stop typing b4 this gets to long and no one wants to read this!

Thank you all so much

So, due to the responses here I was wondering.......

If your spouse said they didn't want to live this "lifestyle" anymore, how would you feel? Would you really be okay, or would it end up causing problems.

[Tybee Swing 286]

Hi mnsnen, welcome to this board. There are many thoughtful and very wise people on this board, as you have already discovered.

 

Before I answer your question, I want to say that based on everything you shared about your husband and what he wants to do (already cheated; now wants to mess around with his co-workers), doing these things is NOT "the lifestyle". This is not swinging, at all. Swinging is something that a couple does together. Yes, there are "open marriages" out there, but not that many, not what we see here. Even "open" marriages are with the consent of both parties and they're happy with their situation. There are NO ultimatums. The couples here are participating together. They go into this willingly, both of them as a team, and they forge their own way by creating their own guidelines and way of going about it that suit them both. They do it for their mutual pleasure. To learn much more about it, you may be interested in reading the FAQ's here. Keep on reading here, and you'll learn a great deal about the truth of swinging. There are many false ideas about what it is, but you'll get the truth here.

 

If your spouse said they didn't want to live this "lifestyle" anymore, how would you feel? Would you really be okay, or would it end up causing problems.

 

Before we started, my husband and I discussed this. We both agreed that if at any time, for any reason, we didn't want to participate - either that night, that month, that year or for the rest of our lives, we would be okay with that. Neither of us wants to be here without the other. It's the presence and the participation of each other that turns us on so much. We are turned on to this because we are experiencing this together. This is an enhancement to the great sex life we already have. When we started, we weren't dissatisfied with our sex life. It was dymamic and very hot. This was just something to add for spice, for us. It's like a hot couple who has awesome sex, but sometimes they spice it up with a porn movie, a trip out of town, sexy clothes, sex toys, role play, etc...these things are just for added spice, shared together. Swinging is just spice for us. It's not at all what defines our marriage, our love, our sex life, our desire for each other. In other words, swinging is disposable. We don't need it. If it comes to an end, we both are very assured that it won't hurt our marriage or our sexual lust for each other.

 

Having read many posts here written by many other happily married swinging couples, I know that many other swinging couples feel the same way.

 

I hope this helps.

[intuition897 2,177]

Mr. intuition and I have effectively been monogamous for 3 years now. Other things have taken priority over swinging, so it's been put on the back burner indefinitely. Neither one of us has cheated on the other. So if he said he just couldn't do it anymore, I'd say that was fine with me.

 

I'm sorry if we seemed to be picking on Mr. mnsnen. We understand that he's a good husband and you love him to pieces. Like anyone else with an addiction (however severe or mild), they have a problem; it doesn't mean that they are the problem. He's just got this thing he needs to deal with. It's not just men who cheat; it's anyone who tries to fill in the holes in their lives by turning to someone outside of their relationship. So...why is it that he feels he needs more than just you?

 

If you have or had even the slightest interest in swinging, you really should look into it. One of the most unexpected side effects of swinging was a HUGE spike in our passion for one another immediately after, and up to a week following a swinging encounter. It was just crazy. Couldn't keep off of one another. Perhaps if you became involved in swinging, it might give him some perspective. As in "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". Would he feel any differently if the shoe was on the other foot? "Well, gee honey. A woman just has her needs. I'm sorry, but you'll have to decide whether or not you can live with me needing to have sex with other men." He may very well be just fine with that - even encouraging - but some people are not.

 

Like I said, it seems to me like he's saying, "But I'm sooooo huuuungry!" and we're saying, "No, you're not. You just THINK you're hungry." (How many times have we said this to our kids? ) He just has it in his head that he has no control over his desires. I'm not suggesting that he repress his desires; I just think maybe they could stand to be reigned in and moderated so that they don't trample over your relationship, your feelings, and his life.

 

Also, I didn't mean to make any assumptions about your religion. I was just stating my own personal beliefs as an example.

[Swing*8701 885]

Edison here--The choice of ending the marriage or to allow cheating is not a choice. He gets his goal, other women, either way. 'Temptation too strong' oh puhleeeeeze. I'm sorry, I hate weak willed men who enter a monogamous relationship and then complain when they can't cope and I say this as a man. Instead of investing his life in the pursuit of other women, how about into his family, work and growth. I say this with all sincerity, the guy is a spoiled little brat who needs to grow up. Remember, you never lied about who you were or what your life was about, he did and you're left to cope with it. His high sex drive never destroyed a relationship, it dissolved the ones he built on fiction. I just laugh as to how he paints himself as a victim.

 

When I first met Susan and asked her out she told me exactly what she was about sexually. What a shame he was such a coward and did not do the same for you. Sorry, I don't buy into his hyperbole.

 

Perhaps counselling, but if he's insisting you change to accomodate what he lied to you about, then it's your choice to be a 'doormat'.

[MoonLightKiss 28]

...most men cheat and they do it b/c the urge is to strong. So why not just accept it...

 

This is what has me concerned. And I respectfully disagree. Most men do not cheat because the urge is so strong. They cheat because they are incapable of controlling their urges. Or rather I should say they think they are. What it really is is a very simple case of not wanting to. And that goes for women too, not just men. (Don't want anyone to think I am bashing men only.) Why not accept it? Better question is why would you? You don't think you deserve better or something. And he is probably a great husband. But its still selfish. Yes, even good people can screw up and be selfish.

 

As for would either of us be okay if one wanted to leave? Absolutely. We are in this together. And we will leave it together if one of us chooses to without ever blinking. This is not a necessity in our life like water or food. Its a desire, a want. We do not need swinging in our lives to be happy. We swing because we are happy to do so at this time. Tommorrow my husband could wake up and say "Honey about swinging, I don't think I want to do it anymore." And I would be just as happy with him as I was the day before when we did swing.

[ViSexual 1,006]

You asked;

 

"So, due to the responses here I was wondering.......

If your spouse said they didn't want to live this "lifestyle" anymore, how would you feel? Would you really be okay, or would it end up causing problems."

 

My wife and I shared swinging with five different couples years ago. I loved it but she had problems dealing with what we'd done 'after' each experience. She says that she only tried it for me, but the truth is that she actually initiated it a couple of the times.

 

Well, after 20 years of no swinging of any form we did share some very soft swinging together six years ago but it just didn't last. I, again, loved it but she grew weary of it again.

 

Through these experiences we learned to be more open with each other and talk about things we'd never before talked about. She knows how I feel and I know how she feels.

 

Our compromise is that I'm allowed to flirt and fantasize and I make an extra effort to show her how much I love her.

 

You mentioned that the posibility of him being with another woman does excite you a little? Have you considered that you might find some areas of swinging, if only 'soft' swinging, enjoyable? A lot of very 'nice' girls swing with their husbands, you know.

 

Your husband sounds a lot like me in the sexuality department and just the hope, the possibility, the pure distant chance that someday, some guy, some gal, or some perfect couple might make my wife interested again is enough to keep me going.

 

Hope this answers your question and I also hope you and your husband work things out. I think the mere fact you are here indicates that you're willing to give it every chance.

 

Good luck to you, Sweetie!

[oddcouple2841 16]

This is K (the male)

 

First let me say I think mnsnen has already taken the first step toward changing her attitude. Reaching out on this board shows how serious she is.

 

 

I also believe that her husband's situation or desire to act on his fantasies may turn out to be not much more than just that, a fantasy. Many here will remember how excited they were on christmas morning about all of the presents. Things just couldn't have gotten much better but a week later how many of these presents sat in the way or in the closet and you were bored again?

 

"He said he wants to make this work, but he gave me an choice. Let him sleep with other women or he was leaving."

 

Yes this is an ultimatum but in the interest of giving him the benefit of the doubt, perhaps it is just his acknowledgment that continuing on the way things are he believes that the chances of success are so low that he is unwilling to continue trying. I think in the end he will be sorry if he does leave. He does not yet realize that the grass is only greener on the other side of the fence because he does not have to mow, water, fertilize, weed or really do anything more than just admire it.

 

If I were in Mrs. mnsnen's position and seriously considering this I would demand to be a part of it in some way. I would also put anyone from "work" or either of us personally know strictly off limits. I would not want him with a woman who would accept a "cheater". If they will do that then god only knows what else they might do or what he might catch and bring home to you. I know that it may be very hard to suck up your beliefs and set out to swing together but in this situation it may be her only choice.

 

In the end no matter what you decide Mrs. mnsnen you will have to be the one who looks in the mirror and decide if you can live with the person staring back at you. Don't do anything that will damage your relationship with that person.

[Cpl2share 147]

We have discussed your situation at some length and here is our take on it:

First substitute physical abuse for cheating. Yes, he hits me, but he really loves me. He hits me but he really loves the kids. He hits me but he is such a good person otherwise. We are hearing a lot of excuses for his behavior. Period. No matter how you cut it, he is doing something that hurts you and has no intention of quiting it. You are enabling him to continue. That is not love.

My wife and I did engage in some swinging for about two years, but have not done so in the past year. The couple that we were "with" and us grew apart. We have not found a couple since then that both of us are interested in at the same time. Wed are okay with this. Our sex drives are extreme opposites. I want it every day, she would be satisfied with twice a month. During our 16 years together we have never cheated on each other. Our first son did some serious damage to her plumbing. It was extremely painful for her to have sex afterwards. We did not have sex for over 9 months after he was born. I did not cheat. We have evolved into an animal (yep, I am a athiest) which has opposable thumbs. Thsi makes masterbation very easy for me. When I have an "urge" to get laid and my wife does not want to, I jerk off. She is okay with this. Does not consider it cheating. Soemtimes we discuss who we would like to have sex with.

If he loves you he will find a way to stop what he is doing. If you love yourself, you will not put up with what he is doing, and you will not give in to his ultimatum.

[Mrs.PaganLovers 15]

So, due to the responses here I was wondering.......

If your spouse said they didn't want to live this "lifestyle" anymore, how would you feel? Would you really be okay, or would it end up causing problems.

 

Nope, no problems, we would stop immediately. We do this together, with full understanding that if either of us is uncomfortable, it stops, no questions asked. Well, just because we communicate everything, we would talk about it.

 

The thing about being in this lifestyle is that it is a magnifier. If the marriage is good it will make it better. If the marriage has problems, it will make it worse. You can't get into this for just one of you, it will eventually destroy you. The marriage has to be sound and solid, before you start. The 3 most important aspects of a good marriage is respect, trust and communication, if any one of those 3 are not present, you may as well walk away, or be content to be miserable for the rest of your life. For me, life is to short to be miserable.

 

I really feel bad for you in this situation, ultimatums are a disaster waiting to happen. It's like putting your broken heart and feelings into a box and nailing the lid down tight (if I just ignore them they will go away), eventually the nails rust and the lid pops open. In the meantime, they have been festering in there and reproduced and grown, by the time the lid pops, the amount of anger will eat you alive. Been there done that, I am speaking from my own experience, from a previous marriage.

 

I hope it works out for you, or that you two work it out.

 

Blessings

Mrs. PL

[pagan-lovers 15]

Your husband definately has some major issues, which you have no control over. I am amazed by the number of women who stay with a bad apple in hopes of fixing him, or think all men are cheaters, so I'll just put up with the one I have. I agree with the people who suggested counseling for the both of you.

Needless to say, he fell in love with a good girl. I have old fashioned morals and values, however, I am a very open minded person and did not judge him for his desires.

 

Because I am a "good girl" he has always felt guitly for the way he is.

But the more I thought about it, the more ok I became.

Actaully a little excited by the idea.

 

 

What you can work on is yourself, figure out where you stand. The quotes above represent confusion to me.

 

Myself I don't do ultimatums. Give me an ultimatum and you will see the rebel in me real fast.

[mnsnen 15]

Its me again. Thanks again for all the replies. I told him last night I just couldn't do it. That I was making the wrong choice for saying he could sleep with other women. I just feel so lost. He has a problem. I do not feel like I can say goodbye because of that. I have a problem too. I am agoraphobic. For those of you who do not know what this means..... (for me, different for others) I have such severe panic attacks that I have days that I cannot leave the house. I must always be in control of where I am/ when I can leave. I cannot hold a job. The Mr. doesn't like this. Who would. But he looks past my problem and isn't going to leave me because of it. I do know that these problems play a very different role in a relationship, but how can I just say "well, okay, goodbye...have fun sleeping around."But getting on here has made me realize that this choice he is giving me is VERY unhealthy. I knew that deep down but I guess I get deluded by my feelings. The fact that he is really willing to throw everything away for sex with other women shows how big his problem really is. He asked me this morning if I wanted him to go get an apartment. I said no. I guess I am just trying to buy time. I want to get him help. I do think he will regret it if he leaves. I know he loves me and this family. But I also know that his problem is making this choice, not him. So I feel like if he goes his problem will only escalate at a fast rate. (Nothing holding him back at all) I don't want that for him. No matter what happens with us, I will always care deeply and want the best for him. I want him to be a role model to our children. He says that if he goes he can still be a good father, but I question that. If he goes and has no one or nothing to keep him from screwing everything that winks at him he will just get worse of catch something. If he gets worse it will have to eventually change who he is even as a parent.

This all also makes me wonder if swinging would be unhealthy for him also. If he was to stay, I became comfortable with swinging, would this only be like giving a heroin addict more drugs?????

GRRRRRRRR!!!!!!! Why didn't I become a therapist! lol

So, I feel he NEEDS help. With me or not, he needs help. I would say even more so if he isn't with me. What steps should I take to let him know that there are people out there that really can help. He has refused help b/c he thinks its pointless. He gets on these "highs". He is on one know. Thats why he gave me this choice. I think this high will pass. Don't get me wrong, I know he will still have a problem. But, how do I get him to stay long enough to pass the high and get help. I CAN NOT just let him go. I can't watch him ruin his life. Mental problems can always get much worse. What if I let him go and 7 years from now he is so bad that he ends up raping someone? What if he catches AIDS? And I know he won't be happy. He says I deserve better. That he is tired of hurting me. But I chose him. Better or worse, till death do us part. I just can't give up on him. I still love him and he still loves me. You don't quit in that situation. Many areas of our relationship are very healthy. Just not this one. This is about it. I know its a BIG issue. But its pretty much the only one. So I guess I will put it this way.

----- He has a problem. An addiction. Lets say your spouse had an addiction. Drugs, alcohol, whatever. Would you let them go to watch them get worse? Am I only hurting myself and my family for trying to help him when he doesn't want it??????

Thanks again to everyone. This place is the BEST to vent!!!!!!!!!

[PrairieFire 15]

I think he was very honest to tell you how he feels. Not everyone is set up to have sex with only one person in their lifetime. He loves you but wants to have sex with others.

 

You are a "good" girl that doesn't want to play but understands that he might.

 

I have an open relationship so I have an understanding of how you can have sex with others without being present and the only way it works for us is for complete honesty about any hookups.

 

He needs to:

1. Tell you when he is going to hook up.

2. Tell you about the encounter (it may make you jealous at first, but if you understand it as a fun life story it may increase your enjoyment.)

3. Calls you after it happened so you don't have to worry about where he is.

4. Makes sure he dates you also throughout to keep your communication lines open.

5. play safe.

 

It can work but you need to understand your jealousy and insecurities first. Coming home to you as a self confident life partner will keep your relationship going. If you are hounded by your own issues it will break up the marriage.

 

Good luck!

[Mrs.PaganLovers 15]

Ok, let me first say, that you can't help him. As with any addiction, the person with the addiction has to make the decision that they want help, and so far it doesn't sound like he wants to change anything about himself. There are 12 step programs for sex addicts, look in your local yellow pages for 12 step programs, if he is interested, you can give him the information.

 

Now, on to you, there are also programs out there for those that live with people that have addictions, again call the phone #'s and ask for help for yourself.

Some people really have to lose everything before they make a decision to try to get help. At this time you will be enabling him, if you go along with him, and allow him to make decisions for you that you don't feel are right for you.

What you are proposing by going along with swinging, knowing it isn't what you want, isn't swinging. You are being drug into it against your will to hold on to a man. In my case, my husband and I have a fantastic life together, loving, beautiful, and our sex life together is the best I have ever had! Swinging enhances our sex life, it doesn't fix it.

Sometimes people go into programs to fix themselves so they can get their SO back, and when they get into the program and start getting mentally healthy, they realize what a messed up relationship they had and they don't want it back. They can then move on to someone that can really love them for what and who they are without the drama, and ultimatiums.

 

I am glad you came by for help, but I truly hope you will get help for yourself first. Please drag out your phone book and look up your local 12 step programs.

 

Blessings

Mrs. PL

[Tybee Swing 286]

What you are proposing by going along with swinging, knowing it isn't what you want, isn't swinging. You are being drug into it against your will to hold on to a man.

 

 

Original poster,

 

There are couples like this in swinging. Couples such as those of us posting to you, we try to have radar for this situation to avoid couples like this. It only ends badly, for everyone. When women reluctantly join a husband for swinging, and it's something they really wish they didn't have to do - they'd much rather just have their husband's attention and be monogamous - swinging with other people is disastrous. If I knew where to find the links, I'd show you many stories like this that end BADLY. They're scattered throughout this board and other places on the 'net. The disaster stories are usually written not by the couple in your shoes, but by the couple that ended up behind closed doors with them and had the misfortune of seeing the drama unravel....a woman sitting there looking crushed and stricken, as she watches her husband fuck another woman like mad (ignoring his wife's distress), crying, hiding in the bathroom until it's over, and more. Or maybe the reluctant wife is dutifully enduring and tolerating the swap, as if it's a human sacrifice - not enjoying it. Imagine being in the other couple's shoes.

 

Swinging is for couples with very strong and stable, open and honest relationships. It's for couples in which BOTH partners truly want and desire it. Most importantly, these couples want and desire the happiness of their partner, and wouldn't do anything that their beloved partner wasn't 100% comfortable and happy with. Cheaters are not open and honest people - they're willing and able to lie to their spouse and cover up what they do (he's cheated on you) - causing you much pain - putting his immediate pleasures above your needs and your happiness. It's only with a very deep, sure, solid trust between two people that you can proceed successfully into this. And even as you proceed, you need lots of open and honest communication every step along the way with swinging.

 

Whatever you choose in the future - Hugs and best wishes to you!

[mnsnen 15]

Well, good news to all! I called him earlier and told him that I ordered him a book. That no matter what happens between us, I feel like he needs help. He agreed to read it. He even mentioned that us having so much sex latley is making him worse. To me, that says alot. He wants me to know that us having sex twice a day is hurting, not helping.

I had him read some of the posts on here last night. He was very open minded and agreed with somethings. Maybe it's opening his eyes that he is making a very bad choice by giving me an ultimatum. (that he is making decisions based on the compulsion of a problem)

I am going to have him read some more of the posts today, so if anyone has anything to say to him (opinions/advice) please do so. Maybe he will post some of his own thougts himself.

I also want to add that my personal intrest in swinging isn't "because" of him.

I know that for something like that to work it would have to be in a relationship that was very strong and open.

I had never thought of it before him. But that doensn't mean its out of pressure from him. We married when I was 20 and I just hadn't had much of a sex life before him. He was the 1st one that I ever really got into sex with. He is the 1st that I role played with, used toys with, the 1st to really ever get me turned on. I was just young and hadn't experienced much before him.

I had never even heard of swinging before him. I led a very sheltered life. I had (and still do) beliefs based on what I feel is right or wrong for me. When I was 1st introduced to the idea of people swinging I thought, (THESE PEOPLE ARE CRAZY!!) Mind you, before Mr.MNSNEN I had never even seen porn more than 2 times and wasn't comfortable with it. Now I love to put a little porn on while we are fooling around sometimes. Its not because he pressured me into doing it. I just realized that just because my dad says "thats bad" doesn't really mean it is. I guess I am just saying that I wouldn't do anything that I wasn't comfortable doing. I am not saying I would ever be comfortable swinging, I don't know, but I wouldn't venture into it just to try and save my relationship. I would never do it unless I was with someone that I had complete trust and wonderful communication with.

I know I sound confused a lot right now, thats because I am. But I think people got the wrong idea about my thoughts and reasons for being somewhat interested in swinging.

I wanted to clarify that its not about trying to keep him.

Anyway, I think he may be willing to try and get a little help. I think his biggest obstacle will be finding it in himself to say he doesn't want to feel that way anymore. He has taken a large step in admitting he needs help. He just said it feels so good to him. That when he sees someone he wants-that he FEELS it and he likes that feeling. Just like a drug addict. It feels good to them thinking they may get another line. So send some luck his way!

hugs and kisses to everyone here. I really respect everyones opinions and input so much and appreciate everything!!!!!!!!!!

[EvilMJ 65]

I think it is great that you are able to talk.

 

Everyone else has covered what I thought.

 

Swinging is never going to fix a relationship, if there is not a strong foundation of love, trust, communication and willingness on both parts to participte, then everything is going to fall apart very quickly. Before anyone should enter into the swinging lifestyle they need to make sure that their relationship is strong. So even if you are thinking about it for the right reasons, you have to deal with the problems first. If I were in your posision I would forget about swinging and focus on if you want to save your relationship, and if you do, how to go about doing that.

 

I hope things work out for you.

[twobears 16]

I am sorry that you are in this position,based on the fact you have children I know you are working hard to save the marriage. I would work on me,read the information on this board,try to change your outlook on the lifestyle. I would try to go into the lifestyle,slowly, solf swing. To be happy in the lifestyle you must have a good marriage you do not,you will need his emotional support,the long talks that need to be honest(not sure he can or wants too)A lot of the lifestyle is the togetherness,your love for each other and the enjoyment of being in it together. His whole out look on life and the (need) for sex with others,we take part in it to enjoy each other's pleasure. It was hard for me to over come the old out look toward this lifestyle,but I wanted to change because that was the only way my husband would agree to do the three. It took me a year of talking,crying, and meeting couples for solf-swing,before I was able to take hold of the lifestyle and enjoy like I was suppose. There are still times that I get a knot in my brain,we talk about whatever I am feeling or up tight about and it goes away. You will need your husband's love and support to enjoy this lifestyle and an open marriage would be hell for you. For any rules leave the women at work off of the list, you do the interviewing and chooseing the women,try a FMF 3som and see how he treats you during this,oh by the way in a FMF the extra female is not the center of attention but you the wife is the way I feel,all are pleasured.

[intuition897 2,177]

The fact that he is really willing to throw everything away for sex with other women shows how big his problem really is.

 

This sums it up nicely.

 

I can appreciate what you are saying about your feelings for your husband. He's someone you give love to, not someone you are looking for love from.

 

Cheating is a horribly destructive thing. It shreds our trust in one another, it breaks hearts, and it does a thorough job of destroying one's own sense of self-worth. No wonder he keeps telling you you're better off without him...because you know what?...the sad truth is that he's right. He is not proving himself to be worthy of the kind of love you are trying to give him. This kind of harsh reality is something that, once realized, will either destroy him or give him a place to start from, to move as far away from that negativity as possible. I think perhaps it does a bit of both. They say once a cheater always a cheater, but it's not true. It's just rare to see one change, because the only way for them to truly change is to realize exactly what their behaviour has done: it has defined them as unworthy people, and they have done it to themselves. They are no one's victim. They have beaten and raped their own selves, and have no one else to blame for it.

 

It's much easier for your husband to continue the status quo, simply accepting that he's a bad person, and as such, does not expect any better of himself. He feels that he's lower than dogshit on your shoe, and always will be. So why bother trying to be good? It's just so much easier to go on being his bad self. And why not? Depression is very easy.

 

In retrospect, I take back what I said about looking into swinging. Don't even go near it right now. Step 1: Mr. mnsnen needs to get himself together. Step 2: Get your relationship together. Step 3: Start thinking about swinging. I don't envy you two. You have your work cut out for you.

[deanncat 25]

Yes it sounds like a ultimatum,

my husband and I have been talking about swinging the past 3months and thats the key word, talking together about it, very open and lots of conversations about it, all of it is together even the swingers board is a together thing, no ultimatums, and if one of us feels like we don't want to fallow through, i think that would be it, the swinging conversation would stop, I think it take together time and that is what will make the swinging fun and exciting and your relationship closer.

[MoonLightKiss 28]

I do not know if he suffers from sexual addiction or not, I am neither a doctor nor a therapist so I cannot make that distinction so I am going to cover both bases, and since you say he is going to be reading these posts, I am going to direct the comments to him.

 

Mr. If you are a sex addict. GET HELP. An addiction to sex is like any other addiction. If you want to destroy your marraige, your wifes love, and the respect of your children, then please feel free to continue. But if you love them, AND love yourself, find a counselor, someone that specializes in sex addiction, and hie yourself off to them ASAP. Beating an addiction is NEVER easy, I can personally attest to that. But it is possible if you want it enough.

 

If you are just being selfish. STOP. Either you love your wife or you don't. If you do, find a marraige counselor willing to work with you each individually and as a couple. Find the root of the problem as to why you want to have sex with others and work it out. If you don't want to be with her anymore and this is your way of pushing her away cause you want to have sex with others, then for crying out loud just tell her and leave. Don't make up excuses that are going to have her blaming herself. A clean break now hurts, but it hurts much less than unanswered questions with a nasty break.

 

To the Mrs. If he is an addict, you need to get into counseling as well. Find out why you are enabling him and find ways to stop doing it. This will also help him in his counseling. It probably would not hurt to find out why you were willing to help him continue with his addiction.

 

If he is selfish and not an addict. Go to counseling anyway. Find out why you were willing to put up with it. This hints of self esteem issues which you probably need to work on. Then find a counselor for you both.

 

He has a problem. An addiction. Lets say your spouse had an addiction. Drugs, alcohol, whatever. Would you let them go to watch them get worse? Am I only hurting myself and my family for trying to help him when he doesn't want it??????

 

In answer to this question. Yes, I would. Let me explain why though. I would do it, even though I love my spouse because my first responsibility is to my children. How good of a parent am I, if I constantly enable an addict? My children get to watch me be miserable, stressed out, and watch their father harm himself.

 

Also, what kind of wife would I be if I enabled his addiction? I would try to get him help. However, if that help was refused, rather than make my entire family miserable, I would remove the problem. If he chose to get help after being put out, I would help him in anyway possible and try to work our marraige out. If our marraige was too far gone to be worked out, then out of love for my children, I would still help him. But if he just flat out refused to fix the problem, no matter how much I loved him, he would be gone til the problem got fixed. Because I ultimately realize that

1. I cannot force him to accept help, no matter how much I want him to.

2. I cannot fix the problem for him.

3. I cannot make excuses for him and enable his addiction and still have a happy home. Everyones misery is not worth his addiction.

[hotingreenville 15]

Wow you are a better women than me. I am in a relationship where only the woman plays with other women. We consider ourselves soft swap. We will have sex together infront of others though. I would never do anything without my husband being around. He has to approve of everything I do otherwise it doesn't happen. He also has to approve of who I am with. If he doesn't like the other girl it is not going to work. If he ever came to me and told me he didn't want me to participate anymore than I would respect that and stop. Relationships are hard and you have to both be on the same page when swinging. It could ruin a good relationship. It sounds like you are a strong women and have been through alot. I hope that you can resolve your issues but if you don't feel comfortable with what is going on you should get out. I myself don't see how a marriage or a relationship could work with one swinging (or cheating) and the other not being involved in anyway. Stick to you guns and don't let anyone just mow you down. I am here for ya.

[menher1559 17]

I've been reading on this post for several days now and as usual, when something peaks my interest, I simply cannot keep my mouth shut.....

 

One of the post i read from somebody...(i've been so enthralled in the content, I can't remember who posted it) said something to the effect of the be sure you can love the person starring back at you in the mirror.

 

This above and beyond all is the secret key to this relationship. In order to love others, you must love yourself. In order to care for others, you must care for yourself. If you honestly feel in your heart you can make this relationship work under it's current condition, then by all means put yourself into it.

 

If you honestly believe in your heart that there is no way it can work and you will constantly have these fears, then it's time to change it. You are in control, not your husband. You have the same opportunities as he.

 

You can choose to have sexual relations outside the confines of your marriage; you can choose to end your marriage; you can choose to continue the life you are living. ALL THOSE DECISIONS ARE YOURS, and the folks here on this board have offered thier heartfelt advice.

 

The fortunate thing from all of this is that YOU ARE IN CONTROL AND YOU CAN DECIDE WHAT IS THE BEST AVENUE FOR YOU TO TAKE.

 

Best wishes to you and your husband and family.

 

"All's fair in love, war and kinky sex"

[daisy girl 34]

Your husband has some qualities that are indicative of an addictive behavior. Please consider counseling for yourself. A good counselor can help you reframe your situation and help you make decisions that are best for you. Only he can make the decision to change; you can't change him...no matter how hard you try. The hard truth is that many women believe that they can change others and waste many years trying. Good luck!

[Mr. Truelove 81]

Back when I first got married to Mrs. Truelove, our church required us to see a marriage counselor. At the time they were requiring it of all the couples that wanted to be married in that church. We went along with it very reluctantly at the time because we felt, like most people that we had a strong grasp on our marriage and that it wasn't needed. It was four sessions long for about an hour each.

 

I was amazed. The counselling was actually quite enjoyable. It might just have been our counselor, but the guy really did well at showing us some key points in building a strong foundation for our marriage.

 

So, if someone I knew was thinking of counselling as an option, I would encourage them to do so. It won't hurt, and if you go into it with an open mind, you might learn a little about marriage and each other as well.

 

Mr. Truelove