Let me hear your "I thought I was in love story"

[Tortured_Soul 15]

Quote

"So, advice you poor tortured soul: Back away from the train wreck before it happens, otherwise you will be trying to sort out the dead from the injured "

 

That's my plan, unfortunately I think I already boarded the train.

[DBL D 120]

It's amazing what you find when you start digging a little, relationships are like anything else...they look like something completely different. Some of us really want to trust someone else, but in a sexual situation most of this kind of thinking should remain fantasy. There is a couple who winked at us and they look very nice. One thing, in their profile they admit that polyamory is on their minds. We wrote them and said we don't mind having feelings for our partners, and that getting to a point of poly would seemingly take a bit of time. Haven't heard back from them. I guess it's all or nothing for some people. Regardless, Tortured is in a pinch, and it is mostly his own doing. I'm not going to feel too sorry for him as you sleep in the bed you make, but I do wish them all well.

[TwoLittleBirds 23]

Oh God. This is making me nervous. Mrs. Bird has a VERY giving and loving heart. That's why I love her so. Well, among lots of other reasons.

 

In order for me to worry about this, though, I must not be as secure as I thought. Well, maybe I shouldn't be; I'm willing to work to keep my little bird.

[lovedoctor 15]

and then I notice the Back 2 Good line from Matchbox 20 ( love that tune )... where have you been since I posted about this mess?....

 

Tourtured Soul, I must admit that Rob Thomas is my fantasy man. His words are so pointedly real and I apply so many of them to my life. He is an old, old soul. I could go on forever about Rob. I've spent a lot of time following the band for the last 5-6 years and this "hobby" has been my respite.

 

OK, back to the question you asked me: I haven't been on here in a couple of months because I don't feel like I'm a swinger anymore. Like I said, the road we were on was leading to a poly lifestyle, and the core of poly IS a loving, caring relationship with other than your spouse. Not just casual sex. So, I just backed away from the board. Now that I find I am struggling with my issues, I came back here to see if I could find any answers. I love this board and the people on it, even if I'm not a classic swinger anymore. Your current situation just hit me right between the eyes.

[lovedoctor 15]

DBL D said:

It's amazing what you find when you start digging a llttle, relationships are like anything else...they look like something completely different. Some of us really want to trust someone else, but in a sexual situation most of this kind of thinking should remain fantasy.

 

Polyamory is a journey, and not one for the weak or confused. The female of this couple is both weak and confused. She only mouths what others want to hear, but she never actually processed the concept. I believe she cannot love anyone because she dislikes herself so much.

 

Right now, I am realizing that she is NOT on the path the rest of us are on. She's mentally unstable and blaming everyone but herself for her problems. She is not looking at herself, just looking at others. Getting well serves her no purpose. If she's sick she can stay the focus of attention and continue to manipulate.

 

I know I need to back out of the situation, but it's F'ing hard when you love someone to leave the (him), especially when they are begging you not to go. I lose either way, so right now - I'm just in hover mode and trying not to make any decisions that are emotional in nature and lead to nowhere. What I saw ahead was a rich and fulfilling life. This woman just blindsided me, even tho I should have seen the signs a zillion times over. I just wanted to believe, like Peter Pan. I am a dreamer at heart, and that sucks.

 

OK, back to tortured soul. Sorry to digress...

[EvilMJ 65]

Although Torturedsoul says he will not be back to post all I can say is what a sad story. I feel so sorry for his wife.

 

The best friend is upset because the wife won't talk to her. She didn't lose a best friend, she threw her away. You don't treat the people you care about like that.

 

I went into this feeling some compassion for a man who found himself in a confusing situation, now I just feel compassion for his wife.

 

I'm sorry if you feel you are being slammed, but what can you expect, you said despite knowing it was wrong and threatening your marriage you decided to continue to pursue her best friend. When it blows up in your face, then you decide to end things...some how I think if you didn't get caught it would have gone further.

[lovedoctor 15]

EvilMJ said:

I'm sorry if you feel you are being slammed, but what can you expect, you said despite knowing it was wrong and threatening your marriage you decided to continue to pursue her best friend. When it blows up in your face, then you decide to end things...some how I think if you didn't get caught it would have gone further.

 

I think he is just confused - doesn't know where his feelings are. He needs to work on his marriage first. If that survives then it could be possible to work out a relationship with the other woman and her spouse. That's against the odds at this point since the whole thing seems to have started as a covert operation. Trust is breached and relationships are rocky. They need to start with their relationship, which they are doing. That's a good thing. So I think he did listen to us, even if it wasn't what he wanted to hear.

 

I hope I can get my head together about what is going on with our little tetrad. I will post in it's own thread if people on here are interested at all in hearing about someone trying to make the transition from swinging to poly. I have hesitated to do so since this is not a poly site and I will respect the wishes of the board if it's a subject not appropriate for this site. I have learned so much from the good folks here, I can't help but think there would be some useful advice out there for me, too....

[Tortured_Soul 15]

EvilMJ said:

...some how I think if you didn't get caught it would have gone further.

 

We didn't actually get "caught", we were openly kissing and hugging in the pool. Our spouses could see us the whole time.

 

I have spoken to the other woman once on the phone since this has happened. I called her at work and she seemed surprised and happy to hear from me. We talked for an hour and had a nice conversation. She has been at the house a few times but I have kept talking to a minimum. I know I love this woman, I just hope she doesn't feel the same way about me. I know it's only a matter of time before we hook up again. But this time no one will get hurt as we will be the only 2 that will know anything about it. I know that it's wrong to do what I am doing... but it's wrong to cheat myself as well. I have received some very supportive PMs from a couple of members who don't feel the need to post in the public forum. I appreciate the kind reassuring words. What if this woman is my soulmate? What if I go through my whole life wondering " what if?" I can't do that. I'd rather err on the other side.... do something which might be stupid , which might lead to a break-up... but if it was meant to be, it's meant to be. That goes for my marriage and this relationship I have with this woman. One way or another things will work out in the end.

 

To those who feel sorry for my wife.... don't. I try my best to treat her like gold. Sure, I do cheat on her... and I am in love with her best friend. But she doesn't know. For all she knows, she has a man who'd do anything for her. For the most part I would do anything for her. But I will not sacrifice my own happiness to live a pitiful unhappy life ( slow suicide is no way to go ).

 

I have dealt with affairs in my life at a young age... my dad left when I was in grade 9... I would hear him talking to his G/F .. telling her that he loved her. And he prob thought he did. Turns out he didn't -or- he loved my mom more as he came back in 2 months. I swore I'd never cheat as a result of that experience. Well, we see how that worked out. The thing is my parents have a strong marriage now... I guess it was meant to be.

 

----- I am also willing to take a chance on love, if I'm wrong - I'm wrong.----

[intuition897 2,177]

 

Aaaaanyway...

 

Good luck with all that.

 

*sigh* "You can't save 'em all, Hasselhoff."

[Tortured_Soul 15]

Luck will have nothing to do with it.

[intuition897 2,177]

Luck will have nothing to do with it.

 

You don't know how right you are.

[Chicup 38]

You don't know how right you are.

 

Its kinda like watching a bad traffic accident that you can see comming but can't do anything to stop.

[EvilMJ 65]

Tortured_Soul said:

To those who feel sorry for my wife.... don't. I try my best to treat her like gold. Sure, I do cheat on her... and I am in love with her best friend. But she doesn't know. For all she knows, she has a man who'd do anything for her. For the most part I would do anything for her. But I will not sacrifice my own happiness to live a pitiful unhappy life ( slow suicide is no way to go ).

 

Yup that's what I call being treated like gold. A man cheating on me, and being in love with my best friend. .......that's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Either end it with her, or quit cheating. That is what I call respecting your wife.

 

No one is saying you have to sacrifice your own happiness, we are saying it is time to make a decision, give your wife the respect and love she deserves. If being happy is leaving her then do it, if happiness is dedicating yourself to her then do it. As my momma always said ...shit or get off the pot! (gross but to the point).

 

I understand you are confused...but don't try to act like it is acceptable to cheat on your wife (sexually or emotionally) as long as she does not know about it.

[NandTfromCA 84]

Some of these points may have already been made but I though a nice summary would be in order. So, Tortured Soul, here’s your story bro. (the bolded parts and dates are my words, the rest is yours)

 

What is it you are trying to achieve?

7-25 I never said I was going to ditch my wife for this woman

7-26 Some solid advice.... I am going to give it a break.... no sex, no talking, no nothing.

7-26 I can hold back on the sexual part of it, but not talking is hard.

7-26 Why chance hurting her over nothing?

7-27 I am sticking to the advice of not talking to her

7-29 I have seen her a couple of times this week

7-29 I mean how could I completely stop without making things real bad

7-29 I just want to get over these fellings. That's it.

7-29 I want to be with her. But I know it's NEVER going to happen.

7-29 I am going to ask her to go to b'fast after our shift this week

7-30 Anyway, to sum this all up. I am done. Done pursuing this woman, there is no doubt that there is chemistry between us... but it's not going to happen.

8-2 I have spoken to the other woman once on the phone since this has happened. I called her at work

8-2 I know it's only a matter of time before we hook up again.

 

Accountability. Cause and effect. One action leads to another.

7-25 I never planned for this happen…it just happened.

7-28 We were over their house one night, in the hottub, and it just happened.

7-29 I think I might just have to let things run their course and whatever happens - happens.

 

If you can’t be honest with yourself, how can you ever be happy?

7-26 I didn't look for sex and neither did she.

7-27 I have had affairs over the past 6 years... with 4 different women.

 

Keep your story consistent.

7-28 I just prefer being with one person....

7-28 …(I) stopped seeing the 2 women i was seeing and for a while things were really good.

7-29 Some call for good luck might be in order.

8-2 Luck will have nothing to do with it.

 

An honest person doesn’t usually feel the need to write “honestly” as many times as you have.

7-29 I am not a dishonest person.

7-29 … if I was going to tell my wife about things I did, I would have never done them in the first place.

 

Funny how you treat a woman like gold (as you have) and she tries to hit and scratch you. What a bitch!

7-30 Anyway to make a long story short, my wife storms off - tries to hit/scratch me and says our marriage is over. Kinda put a damper on the nite.

8-2 To those who feel sorry for my wife.... don't. I try my best to treat her like gold.

 

Judging by your original post though, you really didn't come here for advice. You just wanted justification.

 

Maybe this board has done that for you. If not, watch a few more movies or listen to some songs that portray what you want, and that should do the trick.

 

Mr.

[Tortured_Soul 15]

Maybe I do just want justification/reassurance for what I am doing, maybe not. HONESTLY, I don't know. Maybe a community that is so fixated on how much they love their significant other doesn't really love them? Because I type honestly means I am dishonest. Sure. If there's something I do know was that your post made me laff. Just as you all think it is impossible for me to treat my wife like gold and do what I do.... the same kind of things are said about swingers, correct? How can you say you love him/her and have sex with someone else? You can though. right? Some of you people are very funny, indeed. I came here looking for advice from open-minded people, people who I thought would be very helpful regardless of what I have to say. The same people I thought who would be open minded and liberal are quite the opposite. We are swingers and because you are having marital issues and are fooling around with someone else and possibly in love with them , well sir.... this makes you a dirtbag loser ( say that with Dave Chappelle's honkey voice). Now us swingers on the other hand have perfect marriages ( although all those "normal" folk think otherwise ) and this makes it perfectly all right to fool around with someone else as long as no "rules" are broken and oh yeah, heaven forbid, we never ever love the other person we are fucking. Never. That's just wrong. I love my partner so much that I enjoy having sex with other people, it just makes sense.

 

This isn't for everyone here as I have listened to some of your advice and appreciated what you had to say, but I think some of you people should take a look in a mirror before you come down on me. I didn't come on here trying to make fuck buddies. I made one post outside of the thread I started. I just wanted advice, justification, what the fuck ever, maybe I just needed to talk to someone.

 

And as far as this wife sympathy thing,I am the one here, not my wife. She is not here looking for help. I am sure I will be corrected here if I am wrong, but I haven't said one bad thing about my wife, have I?

 

Honesty, yeah honesty. I am confused right now. The last thing I need to do is tell someone I have been with for 10 + years that we are done. Yeah, GREAT idea. Maybe it's something that I will do. Yeah I think I will, I am gonna get in the honesty line too. I will line up right behind you guys when you are telling your family, co-workers, and friends that you are still living the dream of free love. I mean sure you can wait until your kids are 19, they'll understand by then. Heck, tell your boss too, I am sure he/she would love to know about your alternative lifestyle. And then there'll be little old me waiting to unload my suitcase full of lies....... just like all you guys suggested. Surrender

[intuition897 2,177]

Tortured_Soul said:

Some of you people are very funny, indeed. I came here looking for advice from open-minded people, people who I thought would be very helpful regardless of what I have to say. The same people I thought who would be open minded and liberal are quite the opposite.

 

Do you have ANY idea how many times wannabe-single people come on here and say the exact same thing???

 

Tortured_Soul said:

We are swingers and because you are having marital issues and are fooling around with someone else and possibly in love with them , well sir.... this makes you a dirtbag loser ( say that with Dave Chappelle's honkey voice). Now us swingers on the other hand have perfect marriages ( although all those "normal" folk think otherwise ) and this makes it perfectly all right to fool around with someone else as long as no "rules" are broken and oh yeah, heaven forbid, we never ever love the other person we are fucking. Never. That's just wrong. I love my partner so much that I enjoy having sex with other people, it just makes sense.

 

Well. That just pretty much proves our theory of you wanting a friendly pat on the back from the whores-and-proud-of-it community. If this is what you really think of swinging, then your relationship is even more fucked up than we originally suspected. Well...maybe not...

 

 

Tortured_Soul said:

This isn't for everyone here as I have listened to some of your advice and appreciated what you had to say, but I think some of you people should take a look in a mirror before you come down on me.

 

Again, a classic phrase. WE HAVE looked in the mirror. We didn't like it. So WE FIXED IT...instead of taking the easy way out. I think your trouble is that this requires a level of honesty - honesty with one's self - that you feel is right up there with fairy tales and ghost stories.

 

 

Tortured_Soul said:

And as far as this wife sympathy thing,I am the one here, not my wife. She is not here looking for help. I am sure I will be corrected here if I am wrong, but I haven't said one bad thing about my wife, have I?

 

Actions speak louder than words. And you're not looking for help, either. We've tried giving you the help you NEED, but it's not the help you WANT.

 

 

Tortured_Soul said:

Honesty, yeah honesty. I am confused right now. The last thing I need to do is tell someone I have been with for 10 + years that we are done. Yeah, GREAT idea. Maybe it's something that I will do. Yeah I think I will, I am gonna get in the honesty line too. I will line up right behind you guys when you are telling your family, co-workers, and friends that you are still living the dream of free love. I mean sure you can wait until your kids are 19, they'll understand by then. Heck, tell your boss too, I am sure he/she would love to know about your alternative lifestyle. And then there'll be little old me waiting to unload my suitcase full of lies....... just like all you guys suggested. Surrender

 

Y'know...I'd LOVE to just say at the next Thanksgiving dinner, "Yeah, we have sex with other people. So what? Pass the mashed potatoes." But the thing is...it's none of their business! You think we're ashamed or something? Not quite. But we are considerate and we don't want to rock the boat...just like you. But in your case, Driven2please, it absolutely IS your wife's business who she married. And if you are showing her the mask you think she wants to see while hiding who you really are, then this has less to do with sex than you think. Quit a 10 year marriage?? You're damn right! If it's based on nothing but lies, it's no marriage at all. It's a farce. You're wasting each other's time.

 

Well, I suppose some people call it a marriage, but it sure as shit isn't my definition of it.

 

Ask yourself this question: If your wife knew everything there was to know about you, would she marry you again today if you asked her? Or if it was your wife that you found these things out about...would you marry her again?

 

Probably not, right?

 

Well there's your answer. Make yourself into a man worth marrying all over again, and see if it's any easier to question your relationship.

[good times 990]

Tortured_Soul said:

Maybe I do just want justification/reassurance for what I am doing, maybe not. HONESTLY, I don't know. Maybe a community that is so fixated on how much they love their significant other doesn't really love them?

 

Tortured_Soul said:

Because I type honestly means I am dishonest. Sure. If there's something I do know was that your post made me laff. Just as you all think it is impossible for me to treat my wife like gold and do what I do.... the same kind of things are said about swingers, correct?

 

Not that I know of, at least, not by anyone who is even vaguely familiar with the lifestyle.

 

 

Tortured_Soul said:

How can you say you love him/her and have sex with someone else?

 

That's simple, love is the respect and devotion that I have for my spouse, sex is something we do for fun, two completely different things. If you can't separate love and sex then swinging is not for you, and quite likely, will lead you down the path you find yourself on now.

 

 

Tortured_Soul said:

You can though. right?

 

Absolutely, but to love someone else would never even cross my mind. I get all the love I need from my wife and she gets all the love I have to give. so why would I screw that up by falling in love with someone else? I wouldn't, and I don't believe one can fall in love unless they have the mindset to do so in the first place.

 

 

Tortured_Soul said:

Some of you people are very funny, indeed. I came here looking for advice from open-minded people, people who I thought would be very helpful regardless of what I have to say. The same people I thought who would be open minded and liberal are quite the opposite. We are swingers and because you are having marital issues and are fooling around with someone else and possibly in love with them , well sir.... this makes you a dirtbag loser ( say that with Dave Chappelle's honkey voice). Now us swingers on the other hand have perfect marriages ( although all those "normal" folk think otherwise ) and this makes it perfectly all right to fool around with someone else as long as no "rules" are broken and oh yeah, heaven forbid, we never ever love the other person we are fucking. Never. That's just wrong. I love my partner so much that I enjoy having sex with other people, it just makes sense.

 

As I think someone mentioned early on in this thread, it is a mistaken assumption to think that anybody here is any more open minded than any other segment of the population. And yes, it does make sense to me.

 

 

Tortured_Soul said:

This isn't for everyone here as I have listened to some of your advice and appreciated what you had to say, but I think some of you people should take a look in a mirror before you come down on me. I didn't come on here trying to make fuck buddies. I made one post outside of the thread I started. I just wanted advice, justification, what the fuck ever, maybe I just needed to talk to someone.

 

So you did, and it looks to me like everyone responded to your queries at face value. What did you expect, swingers in general don't approve or endorse what you are doing, so it should be no surprise that some of the posters are less than supportive.

 

 

Tortured_Soul said:

And as far as this wife sympathy thing,I am the one here, not my wife. She is not here looking for help. I am sure I will be corrected here if I am wrong, but I haven't said one bad thing about my wife, have I?

 

Not that I recall, but it is human nature to put ourselves in your wife's position, she is married to you, an admitted cheater, who thinks it is A-ok to lie to and deceive his wife, I can't see how we could not feel sympathy for her.

 

 

Tortured_Soul said:

Honesty, yeah honesty. I am confused right now. The last thing I need to do is tell someone I have been with for 10 + years that we are done. Yeah, GREAT idea. Maybe it's something that I will do. Yeah I think I will, I am gonna get in the honesty line too. I will line up right behind you guys when you are telling your family, co-workers, and friends that you are still living the dream of free love. I mean sure you can wait until your kids are 19, they'll understand by then. Heck, tell your boss too, I am sure he/she would love to know about your alternative lifestyle. And then there'll be little old me waiting to unload my suitcase full of lies....... just like all you guys suggested. Surrender

 

In the interest of discretion, I don't generally tell my family, friends, or coworkers about my sex life, whether it is with my wife or anyone else. That you can't see the distinction between that and being honest with your wife just shows that you really do not have a clue. Would you be happy as a clam if the tables were turned and your wife was behaving this way behind your back? I think not, you would be hurt, infuriated, and would feel the same deep sense of rejection by someone you loved and trusted that she will when she finds out...Good luck.

[athena2910 17]

That sounds great in theory. I am not a firm believer in the old honesty/best policy idea. Remember it's her best friend ( well second best I guess seeing as I am supposed to be her best friend ). I can't imagine telling her just for the sake of getting it off my chest. Nothing might not even come from this. Why chance hurting her over nothing? This "affair" has been going on for about 6 months now, and me and her are getting closer and closer. I don't know if I want to put a stop to this.

 

This is precisely the reason you need to tell your wife! Yes, it will hurt her, but it would hurt her FAR more to find out that you've cheated on her.

 

It might be that admitting your attraction/infatuation with her friend would actually bring you and your wife closer ... at least once she gets over the shock. There are several books out there that talk about dealing with an affair -- and their aftermaths, and even though your "affair" has been purely an emotional one, it might do you and your marriage a whole lot of good to clear the air. Also, sometimes exposing your "dream love" to the harsh light of day might serve to diffuse it, but the problem is, it sounds like you don't want to do that. I'm guessing you're really hungering for more romance -- and I bet if your wife knew that, she'd LOVE to give that you! At least give it a chance.

 

Athena

[intuition897 2,177]

When someone is so caught up in their own lie, it becomes their reality. They get mad when no one else believes it as the absolute truth. They're on a truly impossible mission: to turn a lie into the truth. Spit-shining a turd, as the saying goes.

 

But we can't possibly know what we're talking about, right? None of us have ANY experience with this, right?

[dayhiker 83]

Tortured_Soul,

 

I only have one thing to add to all this. I'm convinced that your thinking your wife doesn't really know all the cheating you have done and so its not hurting here is just not true. Your wife has some issues she needs to deal with I'm sure. But one thing she almost certainly knows is that you aren't being honest with her. She knows your hiding things from her. She knows your lying to her. I suspect more than the once you told us she ask if you were cheating and you lied that she has asked other things and you have lied.

 

I think you have got to start being honest with her about more things and then maybe she after a lot of healing can respond to you in a way that you will find enjoyable.

[usis 15]

Dear 'Troubled".. You are NOT alone

 

"We are a couple within a swinging foursome. And we are very much in love with each other. And we both decided we should respond to your original question. And we are first and foremost In Love with our spouses.

 

"And buddy, it CAN be made to work."

 

We are not going to go into details here because it will just upset all the self-righteous know-it-alls who populate this board. But we will happily discuss it with you via private messaging. Our 'public advice to you: Follow your heart!

[prettylady 221]

usis said:

Dear 'Troubled".. You are NOT alone

 

"We are a couple within a swinging foursome. And we are very much in love with each other. And we both decided we should respond to your original question. And we are first and foremost In Love with our spouses.

 

"And buddy, it CAN be made to work."

 

We are not going to go into details here because it will just upset all the self-righteous know-it-alls who populate this board. But we will happily discuss it with you via private messaging. Our 'public advice to you: Follow your heart!

 

You have been here, what 3 weeks.

 

How the hell can you make such a narrow-minded statement as that when you don't know who the hell we are.

 

We tried to get to know TS and in the process learnt he wasn't willing to listen to advice so why bother giving him any.

 

You perhaps could have introduced yourself before attacking the good people of this board.

 

This is your first post. Are you trying to NOT fit in with this group? Are you here just to pick fights? Are you a TROLL?

 

What the is the point to you being here?

[DBL D 120]

Geez USIS...Maybe ya'll can get together.

 

Why do you say we're being self-righteous? We're just telling you how most swingers view this type of thing. How does that make us self-righteous? You're saying you should openly make out or more with a lady and let the chips fall where they may? Maybe you didn't get the incongruity of what Tortured said. Take the opportunity to review the facts here.

 

 

Self-righteous, my ass!

 

Male D

[Spoomonkey 418]

usis said:

We are not going to go into details here because it will just upset all the self-righteous know-it-alls who populate this board.

 

Well - you've been here almost a minute

 

Join date? Last Thursday...

 

Post count? 1

 

I suspect you really have no idea what type of folks populate this board, but if by "self-righteous" you mean those who do not support a "behind-the-back" relationship of a man with his wife's best friend - a relationship that he has admitted could very likely destroy his marriage... Well - maybe you nailed it on the head...

 

But - as in all situations - us "self-righteous" folks try not be so selfish and narrow minded that we forget that the irresponsible actions of a person can potentially hurt his wife and family. "Tolerance" is not a form of "scorched earth" strategy...

 

If your swinging philosophy is "damn how it affects everyone else" then that is your right. Live and let live. But don't label us "self-righteous" just because we think through our choices, and their affects on those we care for.

 

Everyone here has given TS needed, blunt, honest advice. If he had hoped to have his feelings justified, he perhaps chose the wrong forum. Thank goodness someone like you can come along and offer to stroke his delusion. I wonder if he will be thanking you when he is sitting next to his divorce lawyer...

[prettylady 221]

OK, I think we have a misunderstanding here.

 

First he is Tortured, not troubled.

 

Second by the sounds of it you, Usis, are in a poly relationship. Three or more people who care for each other or possibly love each other, with the knowledge and understanding of the spouse. That is different then having a relationship behind a "loved" ones back.

 

He is not trying to make a poly relationship work here, he appears to want to have sex with the other women and NOT involve the other two people involved.

 

A friendly bit of info. READ THE ENTIRE THREAD!!

[MoonLightKiss 28]

I ask my 8 year old why he didn't clean up his room while I was at school last night. His answer "I dunno" When I ask him why he lied to his father earlier about not having to clean his room he said "cause I woulda had to clean it" When I asked him why he thought lying was okay, he said "its not, but I really didn't want to clean."

 

Moral of the story? Tortured_Soul, my son reminded me of you. Why do you have affairs, lie, and think its okay? " I dunno, I would have to stop seeing her, and I don't really want to."

 

That said, hey you wanna act 8 years old, lie and do things you know are wrong, go ahead. I care not what you do with your life. What I will not do is help you justify it. I am just to...oh whats that word usis used...oh yeah...I am just too self righteous. If being honest and open is self righteous, then baby let me board the self righteous train, cause I have no problem with being that way. Better that than a liar or worse, a cheat.

 

And yeah I agree with possible IP addys matching. I will add an additional 50 to the pot for that one.

 

Dinner and drinks with your wife's best friend...$100

Sex with your wife's best friend...$.75 cents for condom at gas station

Watching your wife hire the best damn divorce lawyer...priceless

[usis 15]

Hahahahaha,

Well...First, we are the Poly half of a Dear 4 way friendship that started out as swinging. Our spouses pretty much know the emotional attachment. But we also do NOT rub it in their faces. And yes we have read and yes we are lurkers on these boards and i (the female)decided that it would be prudent to give the TS what he asked for...NOT ADVICE , but a story, Albeit true story. My wonderful patient sweetheart was reluctant at first because he said you would shred us to pieces. As I mentioned...our own spouses are very much Loved and will always be #1. There is Total agreement, regarding that.

 

NO, we do not share an I.P. addy with T.S. NO we are not trolls! And YES we HAVE read the story, BUT we also wanted T.S. to know that these things can happen , did happen, and we are making it work as best we can. Because You just don't will yourself to Fall Out of Love with someone. Surrender Yes our situation is more of a story for a Poly Discussion. Now maybe you good people could somewhat understand...End of soapbox....

[prettylady 221]

usis said:

My wonderful patient sweetheart was reluctant at first because he said you would shred us to pieces.

 

The only reason you got "Shredded" was because you insulted the people in this forum.

 

We have poly couples in this group. We have no problem with poly relationships. If it is what works for you, good for you.

 

If you made your statement with out the Self-riotous comment then we would have said, well it is what they like they are happy, good for them.

Tortured is looking for an excuse to cheat. that is why he was bashed so hard.

 

I too support the fact that he loves another women, I don't however support the cheating. If he wants to carry on with this other women I say good for you. End your marriage and live happily ever after. I know from experience that you can't decide who you love it often just happens.

 

So in closing, don't attack people then wonder why they react the way they did

[Spoomonkey 418]

usis said:

My wonderful patient sweetheart was reluctant at first because he said you would shred us to pieces.

 

Actually - there are plenty of poly folks around here. I don't think they have ever been "shredded" here for their choices or their feelings.

 

But the OP is not talking about anything poly - he is talking about his feelings for another that could destroy his marriage - a fact that even he has admitted. Surely you realize that this is something far different than poly. Poly - as I understand it - respects and considers the feelings of all people involved. Their is no deceit, no dishonesty, no damage done.

 

While I am not poly, I respect poly people.

 

What I don't respect is people who hurt their spouses because they are simply too juvenile to be honest, too weak to do the right thing (which, in some cases means dissolving a marriage that isn't working).

 

Simply falling in love with someone other than your spouse doesn't make you polyamorous any more than having sex with someone other than your spouse necessarily makes you a swinger. There is a LOT more involved.

 

Read around, I think you may learn something about swinging, poly and the attitudes of people on these boards

[intuition897 2,177]

usis, I have to agree with PrettyLady and Spoomonkey. No one here has a problem with the poly lifestyle. I, for one, think it's a great option. Mr. and I have discussed it ourselves, and although we have decided that it's not what would work best for us, it's something that, I'm sure, we will revisit. Most people here share this same respect.

 

What we DO NOT respect, however, is dishonesty. Sure, we keep our lifestyle from those who have no need to know about it - kids, family, "straight/vanilla" friends, co-workers, employers, church friends, neighbours, and anyone else who might be offended by it - but otherwise we are straight up with those who DO need to know. And to tell yourself that a spouse "doesn't need to know" is a gross lie, and an insult of the worst kind. It hurts her, it hurts him (oh, yes it does), it enables this other woman to hurt herself, her husband and her family... Just because the carnage has happened yet does not in any way excuse either him or her from their irresponsible behaviour. The bullshit that TS is talking about makes about as much sense as boiling a pot of gasoline on the stove! One minute you're filling the pot, then putting it on the burner...nothing's happened yet, so what's everyone getting their panties in a knot about, eh?...but just you watch...if he's dishonest about this, fucking this other woman behind his wife's back is just like lighting the burner. He might be lucky and not have it blow up in his face right away...but sooner or later, it will.

 

This has nothing to do with polyamory, and everything to do with being a decent person. The discussion of a possible polyamorous relationship can only happen after he has been honest with his wife about what he needs, and what he merely wants. He wants to take the chickenshit route instead. Pardon us for pointing that out to him.

[MoonLightKiss 28]

Usis. It also burnt me like it did prettylady, that you would call us self righteous when all we did was tell TS the truth. So if you are wondering why you got "shredded" that's why. And it had nothing to do with you being poly. My comment about sharing the same IP addy though, if it ain't true, for that one comment, I will apologize.

 

The truth is, while poly/swinging works for you and countless other wonderful people, what TS is doing has nothing to do with swinging or poly, but being a lying decietful man who is trying to justify cheating one minute, say he is going to stop the next, and then jumping back on the justifying train.

 

For myself, I think he needs buck up and be honest with his wife and this other woman, whether its saying to his wife, "Hey, I don't love you, I have been cheating, I am leaving you for ...." or he needs to say "Hey I have been cheating, and I want to work things out, I was with (insert name) and have decided to call it quits." Its not fair to either woman that he keeps them both on strings.

 

If he wants to work things out with the wife, then be prepared for her to say no way. And accept it. It was the honesty, not the falling in love I had a problem with. Like some have said here, you can't help who you love, BUT you can help it on who you treat with honesty, kindness and decency. That was my opinion.

[Tybee Swing 286]

And yes we have read and yes we are lurkers on these boards and i (the female) decided that it would be prudent to give the TS what he asked for...NOT ADVICE , but a story, Albeit true story.

 

Yes, Tortured Soul was looking for stories. However, he also seemed to be seeking advice. In his very first post on this thread, he summed it up: "Help me get out of this haze I am in." That appears to be an invitation to give advice. He sounded confused and sort of dazed by it all. He seemed to be asking for clarity. That's basically the type of advice that people here were trying to give him. In other posts throughout this long thread, he asked numerous questions, appearing to be open to what answers people may give. He even mentioned the fact that he came to a swinger's board seeking advice.

 

First, we are the Poly half of a Dear 4 way friendship that started out as swinging.

 

As I mentioned...our own spouses are very much Loved and will always be #1. There is Total agreement, regarding that.

 

Now maybe you good people could somewhat understand...End of soapbox....

Usis

 

The situation you describe is very different from Tortured Soul's. He's had numerous affairs behind his wife's back, including long before they tried swinging. Sometimes, he was even running 2 different affairs behind her back at the same time. She'd suspect, ask him questions, he'd deny. "Classic" type of affairs/lying.

 

Then, in this current situation with this other woman, the wife is very much not happy with it, doesn't know that her best friend is going behind her back, and doesn't know her husband is going behind her back. She doesn't know half of what her husband is contemplating. The other woman is "perfect" to him. His wife is very far from #1.

 

See the huge differences?

[slolrner 15]

Funny that I should read this today for the 1st time.

 

We were at a gathering this weekend and one of the couples there is going through this right now.

 

The dad falls for his wife's best friend, divorces his wife and marries the friend. Now both of the family's are torn up, the mother of the kids is in a million pieces and her best friend walks into the party like nothing is happening. The kids are heart broken and have lost all respect for the dad, and never will have any for the friend, and of course he was a no show. The couple we were visiting was leaving for another state - they didn't say it but it was apparent they had enough trouble trying to raise their kids, without having to start raising their parents.

 

Have some class and think of others, walk away. Believe me your kids will never know how much you gave up for them but at least you will still be in their lives and the lives of your grandkids. Shit this man and woman have let their desire tear the lives of at least 20 people up side down and inside out.

 

On the way home my wife told me that if I had to have an affair she thought she could live through that but if I pulled that kind of stunt with one of her friends I wouldn't make it to divorce court. I can understand that.

[Tortured_Soul 15]

So, you guys are still at it. Who gets the money in this pot? It's up to what? 100-150 $? That shows me how much you guys think you know..... I have no idea who the other poster is, apparently it's just someone to show support. And I thank them. I didn't come on here to fuck with people, to win some kind of e-battle. Seriously, grow-up.

 

Update (if anyone cares):

 

No sex. Limited talking (she's on vacation). I miss her. And I love her.

 

End of update.

 

PS I NEVER CAME ON HERE LOOKING FOR AN EXCUSE/REASON TO CHEAT. I am not currently cheating and if I was i wouldn't come here looking for permission to do so. The cheating was just a bit of hx, which basically fucked me cause as soon as I mentioned it, people got their panties in a bunch.

 

PPS... thanks again for the continued behind the scenes PMs I have received, you people have told me interesting stories ( non-sexual at that ) and I appreciate it.

[EvilMJ 65]

Tortured_Soul,

 

You are right, you have not cheated on your wife with this woman. At least not physically. You did mention you have cheated in the past and I think that tends to get people upset.

 

I guess the problem is the number of the people coming to the board becuase they think swingers are so open minded that they would accept any perversion or immoral action. We are unfarily painted as cheaters, deviants, immoral..you get the point. We just happen to believe in our marriages and our spouces come first.

 

I reread your posts and I think you may have been unfairly judged in some cases. You have not cheated on your wife, you still feel you love your wife, but you feel you may love this other woman too. There are people who are/have been in this situation. We gave you some advice - mainly because it is clear that if you continue to see this woman like this one of two things is going to happen - you have an affair or you end up leaving your wife. Our hope is that no matter what you chose you at least give your wife the respect she deserves and talk to her about this. You say it would only upset/hurt her, but how is she going to feel down the road when she finds out that she was unaware of the conflict going on all that time, and you didn't let her know.

 

I honestly do hope you can come to a good ending for all of you. Having never been in such a situation I can't tell you what to do. I can only offer that you have to do what is going to make you happy and hopefully you can do it in the least hurtful manner possible.

[MoonLightKiss 28]

So, you guys are still at it. Who gets the money in this pot? It's up to what? 100-150 $? That shows me how much you guys think you know..... I have no idea who the other poster is, apparently it's just someone to show support. And I thank them. I didn't come on here to fuck with people, to win some kind of e-battle. Seriously, grow-up.

 

Update ( if anyone cares ):

 

No sex. Limited talking ( she's on vacation ). I miss her. And I love her.

 

End of update.

 

PS I NEVER CAME ON HERE LOOKING FOR AN EXCUSE/REASON TO CHEAT. I am not currently cheating and if I was i wouldn't come here looking for permission to do so. The cheating was just a bit of hx, which basically fucked me cause as soon as I mentioned it, people got their panties in a bunch.

 

PPS... thanks again for the continued behind the scenes PMs I have received, you people have told me interesting stories ( non-sexual at that ) and I appreciate it.

 

You are right, I did get my panties in a bunch over it. Do not think that I am completely unsympathetic to your situation. I do sympathize with you. However, I will not back down from my opinion which is to be honest with your wife and this other woman. Perhaps my own personal feelings are clouding my opinion, but my ex cheated on me repeatedly and while I suspected and accused him, he denied it. After we broke up I finally got the truth, but it was too late. I was 20 and already a single mother, and he was denying his child. Two sides to the coin of knowing earlier. Had I known, I might not have had to work three jobs to support a child alone, but then again I probably would not have stuck around long enough to become pregnant with my son that I love. So I will not in any way say that it is okay for you to lie to your spouse over a situation like this. At the very least she shared vows and children with you and deserves the respect of knowing the truth.

 

I will say, that yes I was under the impression you were currently cheating due to this post...

That sounds great in theory. I am not a firm believer in the old honesty/best policy idea. Remember it's her best friend ( well second best I guess seeing as I am supposed to be her best friend ). I can't imagine telling her just for the sake of getting it off my chest. Nothing might not even come from this. Why chance hurting her over nothing? This "affair" has been going on for about 6 months now, and me and her are getting closer and closer. We were camping on the weekend and we went for a walk, just the two of us... I didn't look for sex and neither did she... we just talked and laffed. Something me and the Mrs have never ever done. We have had alot of tender moments alone and with our partners present.... it's a really f'ed up situation. Well I am working the next two nights.....

 

 

and the thing is.... I don't know if I want to put a stop to this.

 

So, if you are not having an affair with this woman, then you have my admiration for being strong enough to resist so far. However, you really do need to be honest and decide. You yourself said in another post that you would have no will power if the opportunity presented itself. And you wife needs to know that her best friend is not a friend if she is considering having an affair with you.

[intuition897 2,177]

I guess I am taking the chickenshit route.... I am glad it's already a well-beaten path. SWING on.

 

Whatever works for you, TS. I'm not losing any sleep over it. I still think you're out of your mind for doing this to yourself and everyone around you. The fact that you haven't actually put your penis in this woman yet without your wife's knowledge is just a matter of lack of opportunity. You said so yourself. Sorry MJ, but I find this kind of intent just as inexcusable as the act itself.

 

And TS, you're entitled to your opinion of swingers and the quality of their morals and ethics; you certainly wouldn't be alone in that opinion. I know where we stand on the cheating issue, and you've pissed a lot of people off with the insinuation that they, themselves, are cheaters who just won't admit it to themselves. And that you, admitting that you would cheat, are more the more honest of us. But admitting a thing does NOT excuse it. We believe that. If we felt this was cheating, we wouldn't be doing it. No lie. We do this for reasons that you apparently can't understand, so I won't bother repeating what I've already often said in hundreds of posts to explain that. You're talking to a bunch of people whose hobby it is to strengthen and deepen the bond they share with their spouse. Then you tell them that they are lying to themselves, and that they are nothing more than common cheaters. By our definition, cheaters have NO value for their marriages. By your definition, it's just someone who fucks someone other than his spouse...whether the spouse knows about it and approves or not. I'm not sure if you can see it or not, but we find this insinuation a tad offensive.

[Tortured_Soul 15]

intuition897 said:

Whatever works for you, TS. I'm not losing any sleep over it. I still think you're out of your mind for doing this to yourself and everyone around you. The fact that you haven't actually put your penis in this woman yet without your wife's knowledge is just a matter of lack of opportunity. You said so yourself. Sorry MJ, but I find this kind of intent just as inexcusable as the act itself.

 

And TS, you're entitled to your opinion of swingers and the quality of their morals and ethics; you certainly wouldn't be alone in that opinion. I know where we stand on the cheating issue, and you've pissed a lot of people off with the insinuation that they, themselves, are cheaters who just won't admit it to themselves. And that you, admitting that you would cheat, are more the more honest of us. But admitting a thing does NOT excuse it. We believe that. If we felt this was cheating, we wouldn't be doing it. No lie. We do this for reasons that you apparently can't understand, so I won't bother repeating what I've already often said in hundreds of posts to explain that. You're talking to a bunch of people whose hobby it is to strengthen and deepen the bond they share with their spouse. Then you tell them that they are lying to themselves, and that they are nothing more than common cheaters. By our definition, cheaters have NO value for their marriages. By your definition, it's just someone who fucks someone other than his spouse...whether the spouse knows about it and approves or not. I'm not sure if you can see it or not, but we find this insinuation a tad offensive.

 

First thing, I never said swingers were cheaters, I was merely making a generalization in that post. I don't think that the swinger's lifestyle is wrong or otherwise. I was merely comparing how someone outside of the loop would react to that type of behaviour to that of the reaction I got on here from coming out with my situation. You get it now?

 

reread the post, read it in Dave Chappelle's honkey voice, and you might just get it. Those weren't my feelings, it was just as I stated.

 

Also, when I said that this affair has been going on for 6 months, I " " affair. It may be semi-emotional at best....... and yes, to be HONEST ( I say this because I lie quite often ), I probably would fuck her when or if the opportunity presents itself even though we have been alone numerous times and nothing has happened, except for one kiss. It's just that, it's not all about sex....... you guys just don't get it, and how could I expect you to? This has never happened to you.

[Spoomonkey 418]

Tortured_Soul said:

It's just that, it's not all about sex.......

 

Precisely...

 

Which is why some of us - myself, for example - see what you are doing as cheating.

 

If Mrs Spoomonkey has sex with someone else - well, she's allowed. That is swinging. We do it all the time.*

 

What would destroy our marriage is the kind of emotional attachment you are talking about - even that one "innocent" stolen kiss, wrapped around the "semi-emotional" affair.

 

I think we "get it" a lot better than you think

 

*Obviously, we play within our own agreed upon limits, but she does have sex with others.

[intuition897 2,177]

It's just that, it's not all about sex....... you guys just don't get it, and how could I expect you to? This has never happened to you.

 

And you know this for a fact, do you?

[Tortured_Soul 15]

intuition897 said:

And you know this for a fact, do you?

 

Well unless you are ALL totally full of shit... seeing as the majority of you said that this has never happened to you.

Go ahead, look back past the fucking idiotic spam posts and you'll see it.

 

Again thanks for the ez out from this ez-board. I will give the few decent people who pm'd me an email addy where I can be reached.

 

To the rest - I can't even be bothered stooping to your level. I guess it's not just me who still needs help.

[DBL D 120]

You've been gonged...

 

All I can hope is that you might suffocate at YOUR LEVEL. You are such an ASS for someone who is soooo open minded. If we weren't open minded we'd never have responded to your post in the 1st place, but that may have been beneath you to notice. I have a feeling you are about to be banned anyway so now you can relish that thought and then live your life in eternal bliss.

 

You're soooo open-minded...just where do you draw the line, beyond someone who doesn't see things your way? Are you into incest? How about beastiality? Oh, how closed minded of YOU, Bastard. Wanna go a trash their boards too? You are definitely a wolf in sheep's clothing. Don't bash us because we're only mere sheep.

[Thrax 384]

TS,

So, this is goodbye?

 

I've read this thread -- actually twice -- to make sure I know what the issues are here. Your first post has nothing to do with swinging. You and your wife aren't swingers...you've never been involved with swinging as a couple...but you have fallen in love with a woman, supposedly your wife's best friend, and you want some type of validation for that.

 

It's obvious that type of validation is not available here. At least from the vast majority.

 

Maybe you can't accept the plethora of opinions you have received because you and your wife are not swingers, and as you have mentioned yourself, you have a history of cheating. Whatever the reason, many of us became tired of your responses, especially your refusal to respond rationally to the core issue (cheating). And we're tired of your subtle and overt ad hominem attacks.

 

So, we decided to have fun and re-direct the thread. I don't have children, but in our "threadjack" I noticed the same type of offhand "carry-on" banter parents' who are embarrassed by their offspring's fussing use -- after every attempt to address and appease the toddler, or surly teenager -- the adults intend to get over it. Let's try to ignore the whiner and get on with the conversation...even have fun with it. An analogy, a metaphor? Whatever, it can be a stress reducer.

 

Do we need help? Yes, sometimes we do. And sometimes we ask the questions here. And sometimes the questions we ask are answered in a way which is not the way we expected. There have been many disagreements here, but there has been a lot of information exchanged -- and a lot of fun had (some of it definitely at my expense) -- and we try to be civil about it.

 

Stay on the Board if you want to contribute, but I think this thread is dead. The majority of the answers you have received are not supportive of your cheating, so if you continue to fish on this line for the answer you want, I think you'll just continue to get posts you'll have to throw back.

 

Thrax

[Tortured_Soul 15]

DBL D said:

You've been gonged...

 

All I can hope is that you might suffocate at YOUR LEVEL. You are such an ASS for someone who is soooo open minded. If we weren't open minded we'd never have responded to your post in the 1st place, but that may have been beneath you to notice. I have a feeling you are about to be banned anyway so now you can relish that thought and then live your life in eternal bliss.

 

You're soooo open-minded...just where do you draw the line, beyond someone who doesn't see things your way? Are you into incest? How about beastiality? Oh, how closed minded of YOU, Bastard. Wanna go a trash their boards too? You are definitely a wolf in sheep's clothing. Don't bash us because we're only mere sheep.

 

I didn't trash the site and I never pretended to be a sheep, not unlike some people.

[LFM2 1,481]

TS, I'm a bit confused here.

 

What exactly are you looking for? Advice? Justification of your feelings and actions?

[Tortured_Soul 15]

Hi,

 

I am back. No update, just an apology. I apologize if I came across as an asshole, a pig, or whatever. I am neither of those things. So all I am doing this time is offering an apology for the way I reacted to some of the posts and / or ways I have offended some of the people here, that was never my intention. I'm sorry.

[intuition897 2,177]

I think, in all, the whole thread got a little carried away. Certain topics tend to be real fire hazards on here, and this is one of the big ones. We don't want to be told we're wrong for feeling the way we do any more than the next guy. The topic will come up again inevitably, but as long as we can all avoid sinking to "I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I" arguments, it there doesn't need to be a big stink about it.

 

TS, I think after this many pages, we're all pretty clear where we each stand. I'd rather just bury the hatchet and move on, too, so thank you for the peace offering. We're all on our own journey through life, and while I may still have an opinion, what you choose to do is none of my business.

 

I'll be looking forward to reading your posts on other (less volatile) topics.

[DBL D 120]

I am sorry for what I said too TS. Please accept my apology.

 

I feel that each of us has a right to our opinions and each of has a duty to let people know what we really stand for, if they ask. Others who haven't followed the traditional patterns of swingers have survived here...you should be able to as well.

 

Male D

[Tortured_Soul 15]

Just an update.....

 

We consummated our 'affair'... and it was SPECTACULAR. No, really it was. Thanks for all the support guys, I couldn't have made it this far if I didn't listen to your advice. YOU know who you are. Thanks again.

[Spoomonkey 418]

Tortured_Soul said:

We consummated our 'affair'... and it was SPECTACULAR.

 

Great!

 

I am happy for your kids