Has swinging evolved?

This topic springs out of something that came up in another topic, mostly from a comment by StrateCouple that they feel that swinging has evolved since they entered the lifestyle.

Most of the people we've met are in a dead run from bed to bed. They don't give a damn about anything except getting laid and getting off. It's all CONQUEST to them, nothing more. Another notch in their belt, a feather in their cap, something to tell everyone in the locker room. It's a systematic thing for many. They try to come on nice and agreeable but grow cold and bitter once they've gotten what they want.

 

Yes, it's evolved. Anyone who will say it hasn't is a liar or else is disillusioned. When you start that thread let us know, we'll be interested in everyone else's takes on it.

 

We are of the old school of swing. We're plenty young enough to have fun but we're too old to change our ways or our values. Those trying to force us to change have soured us on it altogether. But for the 99 and 44/100ths percent of everyone else it should be just fine.

 

So what do you think? I realize many people on this board are new or fairly new to the lifestyle so they may not be able to judge whether or not the lifestyle has evolved, but what do you think of the comments regardless?

I'm not sure if evolved is the correct term (although it may well be), but I can confidently say I understand complaints about finding suitable, HONEST people. So many talk the talk, but won't... well, you get the idea. How many times have you made contact with a couple over the internet, the four of you seem so compatible you're practically quadruplets, and then poof, they vanish without a trace or explanation? How many other couples who you actually do get to meet person, and it's painfully obvious they misrepresented themselves over the net? How many try to exceed agreed upon boundaries once you're all in bed?

I don't mean to discourage the newcomers out there reading this, there are many wonderful people within this lifestyle. But it can be a real chore separating the wheat from the chaff, and a lot of work finding those special people.

Originally posted by JustAskJulie:

I realize many people on this board are new or fairly new to the lifestyle so they may not be able to judge whether or not the lifestyle has evolved, but what do you think of the comments regardless

We have been swinging for five plus years, and we have definitely noticed a change in that time, which is attributable to the growth of the Internet during that period.

Those who have entered the lifestyle within the past couple of years cannot appreciate how difficult it was pre-Internet to find swinging opportunities. There were swingers' clubs, but they were hard to find and much fewer than today. Beyond that, there were those scary contact magazines found in porn stores. No chat rooms, no adult personals sites. To be a swinger you really had to want to swing. It was not a casual pursuit at all. It felt more like a small secret society where everybody knew everybody else. We travelled to clubs in a three-state area and would often run into people who knew friends of ours 150-200 miles away.

I believe that there are literally ten times more people calling themselves swingers today than there were five years ago, and a far greater proportion of people in their twenties.

I think this has resulted in several effects, most of them not so good.

For one thing, swinging has become less friendly than it used to be. Lifestyle socials used to feel like backyard barbecues with bare tits. Now the "hustle factor" is much greater than it used to be. Maybe this is what Stratecouple is referring to.

We fall somewhat into the category of hit-and-run swingers, in that we often end up with different people from month to month (for reasons we have discussed in other posts) but it always used to be within a circle of people whom we saw from month to month, and with whom we always stayed friendly so long as we attended the same parties.

Now the faces seem to change so quickly, it's impossible to get to know people.

The other BIG difference is that there are many more people sort of dabbling in swinging. They really haven't made the commitment in their relationship to become swingers. It's more for the titillation, I think--so that on Monday morning they can go to their friends and say, "Oh yeah, we went to a swingers' party and boy are those people kinky *snicker snicker*."

We find this irritating for a lot of ways. We sometimes get the feeling that half the people we meet at a typical dance are there to stand off to the side and gawk at us as if we were monkeys in the zoo. The dance turns into a risque version of any other dance club. The huge problem that goes along with that is that because they aren't really swingers, they haven't absorbed our relaxed approach to displays of affection, etc. and they haven't really discussed limits or expectations. This leads to bad misunderstandings as one partner gets into the swing of things, so to speak, and the other doesn't like it. We've seen more incidents of jealousy, hard feelings, etc etc in the past six months than in the four and a half years preceding it. In most cases this has involved younger people who didn't seem to understand that they were attending an alternative lifestyle club.

Although it's great in theory to have all those good-looking twenty-somethings hanging around, we sort of miss the old days.

frisson,

Funny you mentioned the internet as a possible cause. I was just about to ask that before I read your post. If people felt that had anything to do with it.

It has definitely contributed to more people knowing about and openly discussing the lifestyle. Unfortunately, it has also made it much easier for just anyone to put themselves out there.

Prior to the rise of the internet, the only ways to meet people were through clubs or print magazines. Both of which cost a bit and while people might be likely to buy a print magazine unless they were serious they were probably less likely to actually try to contact someone (too much trouble even in the cases where it was direct mail content) for someone who wasn't serious.

Great topic, too bad it hasn't gotten more of a response.

We were talking about it again last night and decided that swinging in the last couple of years has turned into a Hedonism (resort) concept--something really intended more for the occasional thrill-seekers and the dabblers rather than those who have made a commitment to change their marriages.

Even the Lifestyles convention is being marketed that way. From their Web site: "And, while many swingers attend, most of the couples do not share partners."

That just about says it all.

 

Prior to the rise of the internet, the only ways to meet people were through clubs or print magazines. Both of which cost a bit and while people might be likely to buy a print magazine unless they were serious they were probably less likely to actually try to contact someone (too much trouble even in the cases where it was direct mail content) for someone who wasn't serious.

Yes, and those print mags were not much. The ones we saw when we started this in 1997 had maybe 150 ads from a three-state area. Today through the Net I could easily contact several hundred people within a 20-minute drive.

Clubs were not easy to find. You couldn't just look up "swinger's clubs" in the Yellow Pages. Very few clubs were on line, and there were 2-3 lists of clubs on the Net, with mostly out-of-date info.

It really took us six months before we finally hooked up with a club. (We never did try the magazines). In retrospect, waiting that long was a good thing. It gave us a chance to talk things over really well and to know what we wanted. Had we jumped into it when we first wanted to jump into it, we would not have been so well prepared.

IMHO, the *social-ness* of swinging has went to the wayside. Ten years ago even fifteen, I can remember going to parties or even the club and there being a LOT of socializing going on before anything happened. I have noticed a huge decline in that within the past 5-7 years. It's like, go in, sit down, what's your name, fine, let's go to a room kind of thing. The flirting has decreased, the seducing has decreased, the socializing aspect of swinging has taken a nose dive. There seems to be no social foreplay or very little of it.

Blame it on the internet, yeah some of it but not all of it. The people entering swinging have to take some responsibility and even us *old timers* who have sit by silently and watched the decline. I do think the internet and the accessibility of information has brought many people to swinging that would not be there otherwise. Just as I believe that the internet and email has destroyed the English language and the art of writing letters, I believe that the internet and the people coming into swinging as a result of it have taken it's toll on the art of the seduction and flirting...which, IMHO, was half the fun of swinging. There's something to be said about building sexual tension between two, three or four or more people. Now, all that's required is being mildly attracted to someone and *BAM* you've had them.

As swingers for 25 years we have noticed a number of changes several of which have been discussed above. In particular we could not agree more with the comments about the decline in the social/friendly side of swinging. When we visit our swing club the atmosphere is just how soon can I find someone to fuck, quite different from the flirting and "courtship" which used to prevail. This is one of the reasons we now do most of our swinging with our regular group of eight couples.

There are two other ways in which we find swinging has evolved over the years. One is the emphasis on safe sex which has developed over the last decade and rightly so. When we started swinging condoms were rarely used. Now when we meet a new couple at the club or on vacation under no circumstances would we have unprotected sex with them.

The other change we have noticed is that bisexuality has become much more common at least among the couples we play with. When we first got into the lifestyle, swinging was really wife swapping by another name. You played with another couple and full swap was the name of the game. Soft swinging was not on the cards. More recently we have seen a trend towards different combinations of sexual partners, especially FF when two or more couples get together. In our regular group most of the women play together as couples or in FMF threesomes. Also during MFMs there is sometimes contact between the two men. It took some time before Jo and I branched out and added bisexual contacts to our list of sexual experiences but we have both found that these contacts have enriched the enjoyment we derive from the sex life we share with our friends.

We are still pretty new to this lifestyle...been "trying" to do it for about a year and a half. I say trying because we haven't had many experiences and have had a very difficult time finding couples who do have some integrity and that want to establish a relationship rather than a quick one night stand. I thought it would be a great enhancement to our marriage but sometimes it can be more of a pain than anything . It is certainly frustrating for a couple who is looking to get started but can't find the right people. We are not Ken and Barbie and so are not looking for that, just some people who we can get to know and have some fun with if there is an attraction there. And it is true that you seem to get to know people and then they just disappear without a trace. I am not giving up on the lifestyle and the fun and friendship sure to be found here somewhere but it definitely isn't all that I thought it would be.

It took us 2 years to find a really awesome couple we swing with. Some that seemed good just disappeared, others had wives that couldn't come to the phone etc.

If you are picky about what kind of people you swing with (not just looks) then you should expect it to take a while.

Even the Lifestyles convention is being marketed that way. From their Web site: "And, while many swingers attend, most of the couples do not share partners."

 

That just about says it all.

Unfortunately, it does

Clubs were not easy to find. You couldn't just look up "swinger's clubs" in the Yellow Pages.

It's funny that you mention that. When I was in Phoenix last year I was looking in the phone book for strip clubs and saw a couple of the better known swinger clubs listed in the Yellow pages. And this is a city where supposedly swinger clubs are illegal!

Originally posted by Sex4Us2:

We are still pretty new to this lifestyle...been "trying" to do it for about a year and a half. I say trying because we haven't had many experiences and have had a very difficult time finding couples who do have some integrity and that want to establish a relationship rather than a quick one night stand. I thought it would be a great enhancement to our marriage but sometimes it can be more of a pain than anything . It is certainly frustrating for a couple who is looking to get started but can't find the right people. We are not Ken and Barbie and so are not looking for that, just some people who we can get to know and have some fun with if there is an attraction there. And it is true that you seem to get to know people and then they just disappear without a trace. I am not giving up on the lifestyle and the fun and friendship sure to be found here somewhere but it definitely isn't all that I thought it would be.

I wouldn't give up either if I were you. Just keep thinking that good things come to those who wait and you'll probably end up with a couple or two to play with that will not only be great playmates but also great friends!

I believe a book could be written on this excellent subject if one hasn't yet.

My observations are mixed. I see many great advances in the lifestyle recently due to the internet.

It has exposed many more people as has been mentioned that would never buy a swingers magazine at an adult bookstore. This has introduced a new breed of people into the lifestyle. Many of these people are curiosity seekers and I know they are not well received by many old-timers. However; lots of these people are great additions that fill the clubs with fun-loving erotic people that enjoy being on the fringe of society's sexual acceptance.

My perception is that the old-timers are more apt to just hop into the sack with a new person than newbies that quite often get close to the main event then change there mind. Of course it is usually with other old-timers. I btw guess I am an old-timer. I work with geriatrics daily and am 45 so I am called a kid all day and have a real hard time calling myself an old-timer.

I feel the problems mentioned are probably due to growth pains. The community is definitely expanding rapidly due to the internet, and with growth comes many undesirable factors.

These have a way of working themselves out though. My prediction is that the quality of swing clubs will increase as the new people demand better facilities.

The general public has a long way to go understanding that we are not in fact a bunch of hedonistic, self-indulgent, immoral miscreants.

The general public is full of cheaters though. Infidelity is far more common than swinging but who cares, even if its the president, huh?

The press will look for any sexual deviation and the public relies on the press for most of its opinions. Unfortunately until the community has enough exposure both positive and negative the public will remain in the dark.

When enough clubs get going and profits go up to the point that swinging is considered an industry then the busy lawmakers will have their hands full. The day will come when we will need spokespersons to rely on.

We've been in the Lifestyle 22 of our 24 years of marriage, and while we've seen many of the same changes that others have mentioned, we have also seen a continuation of the more social aspects of swinging here in the great Northwest.

We run a Yahoo Club called Portland Real Swingers. We started it primarily because of some of the same issues already mentioned in previous posts. It was our way of creating an alternative place for people to meet online and to get to know one another. About 2 years ago, we started having quarterly socials for the couples in the club to get together and to meet in a social atmosphere. And we chose public venues in which to do this.

These socials have been quite rewarding. The couples that come to them spend time socializing and getting to know one another, and everyone is like a big circle of friends. Do some people hook up during the social and leave early to play? Absolutely, but as far as we know, there has been no pressure from anyone to do so, and the members of the group look out for each other. So maybe, despite all the changes, there is still hope!

I appreciate the discussion going on here. I agree that the internet provides us with a fast, far-reaching tool of contact. With it we find many people that normally we'd never know even exist. I was never into the swinger magazines either. We felt that this wasn't real anyhow, just some means of selling porn at the time, LOL.

Also we find game players galore on the internet, who use the net as a means of picture collecting and a way of possibly boosting egos by getting others interested in a meeting... which never happens. I guess it makes some of them feel really big because they talked someone into something that will never happen. They are in control and they like that feeling. Of course the ones on the OTHER end of this deal feel quite differently.

I often wonder how many COUPLES on these sites are actually a MAN posing as a couple???

We still play with acquaintances we've made, those who are really friends and not just your average garden variety of players.

We still are amazed at so many who click on a profile, look at the female's pictures, and send messages to meet for get-togethers without so much as even reading our profiles. When on every blank it states that we're not swinging at present, yet they write anyhow, you KNOW they haven't read the first damn word. I guess they think they'll be the ones who change our lives for the better or something.

Speaking of those friends we've actually made in the lifestyle, these are true friends. Sometimes we get together without any sex involved. We go to movies and barbecue together, watch TV and many other things. Our children play together while the adults visit. Friends do what friends do, you know. If playing comes up, then we play. For us, it isn't a mandatory thing to have sex in order to get together with someone.

We met one couple that grew rather edgy because we'd been at a party with them for over an hour without sex. He said that if he wanted a DATE he would go back to high school. He is strictly a bedpost-notcher. This was the last couple we tried to swing with.

Swinging these days has become just that, though. Everyone is more interested in the sex and the thrill, but then quickly move on to their next conquest. Never a worry about remaining friends, never a second thought. After all, it's strictly about THEM...

I won't even begin to mention the "B" problem. There was a huge thread concerning it awhile back so our feelings are quite well expressed there.

Yes, swinging has changed. Some good changes, many bad. We will take it as it comes, but we are exhausted at the work involved. We have had many memorable times that will live in our minds forever, and have changed our future thoughts concerning sex. Our lives are much better and we're more committed to each other than we ever were before, thanks to the lifestyle. But we are also more dead-set in our beliefs and ideals.

You have made so many salient points in this morning's post, it's nearly impossible for me to add anything new. However, I wanted to reiterate one issue you raised -- and that's "couples" who are anything but. Specifically, single guys posing as such, or married men visiting swing sites without their spouse's knowledge.

For this reason, we always insist on speaking with both parties over the phone prior to any meeting being arranged, and it's amazing how quickly this ends many communications. We always offer to pay long distance expenses when searching for swing partners, but still the silence on the other end is deafening. One can prolong a lie for only so long before the truth becomes obvious.

I've said it often that the internet has made swinging more accessible to everyone. However, since men tend to use the internet more than women, there are more men experimenting with swinging as a substitute for prostitution and phone sex. Not good for anyone.

Also, there is very little that can be done to keep teenagers from discovering swing sites and using them for a cheap thrill. Many so called "single men posing as women" I've actually discovered to be teenage girls. Scary considering the FBI can and will arrest you for making a date with an underage girl over the internet for sex, especially if one of you has to leave your home county. Then there are the young boys who sit around and joke about "what this freak is writing. what if that was your mom and dad?"

Once you get rid of the teenagers, you move into the realm of voyeurs who don't want to admit (or don't know) that they only want to talk and watch. There is a place for that in the lifestyle, but you have to know that is all you want before you can admit that to others. Even picture trading can be seen as a form of soft swinging (if you stretch your imagination). But you have to be honest with yourself and your partners about what you want and how far you will go.

Single men who are really married. This one burns me up. These men try to ease their guilty conscious by saying, "I'm not cheating on my wife. I talked to her about swinging and she said 'Do what you want but I'm not doing it with you'." They don't get it. They really think that the women in the lifestyle are sex maniacs who don't care who they have sex with. There are some (a very small minority) women who do feel like this, but they are usually cheating (or considering cheating) on their husbands as well. They don't care about who they deceive or hurt, and they give actual single men a bad reputation.

Gun-shy couples who are afraid of single men even though they want to party with one. This reminds me of the guys in high school who talk to the homecoming queen once, then decides she's too snooty, stuck up, and insensitive to be given the time of day. Then they call all the popular girls snooty, stuck up, and insensitive and tell all the other guys not to bother with them. yes, the analogy is the same. The problem is that there are enough guys representing one of the first three categories I mentioned to make them say "there aren't any good guys and the ones who are really rare." The good guys aren't rare. They just have better things to do (usually) than hang out on the internet all day (speaking of which, my download just finished ) so it takes a little more effort to meet them and convince them that YOU are serious and not playing games or looking for another notch in your belt.

Single men who don't get it. Why don't they get it? They've never had a chance to do it, so they don't know what is happening in the minds of the couples, single women, and other single men who enjoy this lifestyle. Most people today learned about swinging on the net. Usually from websites that post pictures of swinger parties. Maybe the pictures are real, maybe they are staged. The bottom line is that the people running the site concentrate on talking about the sex, how big some guy's cock is, how tight this woman's pussy was, how many men and women she did in an hour, etc. Nothing about how they met, how many people they turned away, or even if everyone on the site is an actor or real person just posing for pictures to make a little extra cash. Half the guys who see these sights believe its all fake. The other half goes "hey, easy sex with women who can't get enough. All I have to do is tell them I have the same thing the guys on their site has and I'm in." Sad, but they make up the majority of single men who join swing sites. When they learn they have the wrong idea, they leave just to be replaced by a new guy given those same misconceptions.

So its a sad state of affairs for swingers? No. It just means that you have to resort to the attitudes of the eighties and early nineties where magazines were the only way to learn about swinging. Be proactive, read profiles, and don't wait for people to write you (unless you are a single man, then only write to single women first...don't waste your time writing to couples unless they say they are looking for you by name ). Don't flood people with emails if they haven't responded to yours, decide if you can afford the time and money to get into clubs, and just relax and go with the flow.

Everything works out when you learn not to try and force them to happen.

We are still very new to this but have noticed that most of the couples have no intent on swinging. The on-premise club we go to exists mostly of voyeurs and exhibitionists. They usually sit there and just watch. Not much interaction at all among those in attendance. You may see 3-5 couples out of 75 that are actually swapping partners by the end of the night. We even had one couple who the female half would receive but not give anything in return to my SO. After her husband talked to her she said she would make an exception this time. Needless to say we did not bother with them. Some nights the single males are well behaved and others it is a nightmare. Last week it seemed all of them were like a pack of wolves thirsty for the kill. They just kept walking back and forth getting more pissed because no one would put on a show for them. We even had a stalker throughout the night. The regulars are all nice but it is difficult breaking into that crowd. It does seem that most are not there to actually meet others. :rollseyes:

I guess we would fall into the category of people that some are complaining about. Let me give you my own perspective on this.

Everyone has different interests, I don't have the need for more friends to BBQ with. If we go to a club it is for one thing only. To have sex that is outside of what most people (including our circle of friends) would call normal. I'm not a jackass about it, but really, I'm not looking for friends. If you are, then great, I have no problem with that. We're not gonna give you our E-mail or phone number and we're not even gonna tell you our real names. If that's what you're looking for than we can go our separate ways and we've only wasted a few minutes of our lives. I'm there to have sex with my wife and possibly someday when/if we are both comfortable to play around a little with others. I'm not gonna give you a hard time, we just have different things in mind. There's a "good old days" story to everything, that's what makes having a memory better than a goldfish fun.

RW1F,

I just don't get it. Help me to understand this as it is becoming more common and I am one of those that has complained on this board about voyeurs and exhibitionists.

Perhaps you can explain to us why you like going to a swingers club for sex with your own partner. Is it the excitement of live sex or performing for an audience? Is it because you really want to swap and are working up to it? Help me out here so maybe I can be more tolerant of those I encounter.

mrs good times said:

Perhaps you can explain to us why you like going to a swingers club for sex with your own partner. Is it the excitement of live sex or performing for an audience? Is it because you really want to swap and are working up to it? Help me out here so maybe I can be more tolerant of those I encounter.

Can I pick "all of the above"?

I wouldn't say we "really want to swap". At this point I'd say we probably won't end up doing so, but never say never. To answer your question, we are there for naughty sexual fun.

None of the clubs we have been to state that they are for "swingers only". In fact, quite the opposite, they all say that they welcome people just like us. Maybe some people that attend these clubs don't like it, but then again they aren't the owners and don't get to make up the rules. In our area there are plenty of clubs that tailor to "true swingers". We don't go to those.

Believe me, I understand the frustration with some (or even a lot) of the voyeur crowd. Some of em are outright rude and obnoxious. Then again, some of the swingers are also rude and obnoxious.

I just don't consider those who are there for a show to be swingers. Granted you can't be as free as you want at a normal club, such as having sex on a couch. It is a shame though that most people are not there to do anything with anyone else. These people are not new either, they sit on the opposite side of the room and ignore everyone. They then go to the other side and have sex with one another. One couple even moves away from people if they sit nearby, at the next table. Don't know if they are simply stuck up or not. I'm sorry, but what makes some so great that they won't associate with anyone at the club? I am speaking about these 2 couples at the club we go to, not anyone on the board. We haven't tried talking to them because they will literally move if anyone sits too close to them. I guess speaking to people is not part of the lifestyle. Hope no one actually should ask them to swap.

Thanks for the verification. I guess we all have our own kinks.

The best analogy I can come up with is when the waitress brings the dessert tray to your table with cheesecake, pie, chocolate cake etc. and when you choose the cheesecake she says, "Oh you can't have that one it's just for show".

Mrs. Goodtimes

It still looks good don't it?

As far as evolving, we really haven't noticed it much, we have been swingers now for 3 years, and if there has been any evolving that we have noticed, it's been with us, mainly when we got started we would meet anyone who wanted to, maybe go out for coffee, then go back to our place or theirs and then we would swap, but then afterwards they wouldn't want to get together after we had our fun. And we ended up feeling used. Almost quit swinging all together.

But we took a break, mainly because of our daughter being born. lol And when we got back into swinging, we took a different approach at it, we looked for people we could swing with who we could also be friends with and hang out with, and there not be the expectation that we would have to do anything sexual every time we got together. We have found that with a couple who we consider our best friends right now. They are expecting their first child also right now and they were new to swinging when we met them.

But we have grown to be very close friends with them and we enjoy the sex when we do swap, but most importantly in our relationship/friendship with them, we enjoy each others company, even without sex involved.

We have been looking for other couples like them that we could possibly swing with, but at this time, since with Tazzie being near the time to have the baby, we have put ourselves on the shelf for the time being, and mostly we are happy swinging with our friends for now, and haven't really felt the need to look for anyone outside of them. But that could also change too.

So for us things have evolved, we have become more selective, and looking for other qualities.

In this thread, VegasLee and MidnightPassion make reference to how different swinging was years ago.

Being brand new at this, I don't have a clue what it was like in the old days. VegasLee stated in the above thread, "Many years ago swinging was just about the sex."

I think many swingers are still looking for no-strings-attached sex, they don't care if they see you again - or even like you - "just sex please."

There are others looking for friendship with the benefits of sex, and for them this is their preferred way to swing.

Those who are "old-timers" (another term from VegasLee) how do you see swinging has changed? Are you pleased or bothered by the changes the years have brought?

Has swinging become too complicated, too sweet and personal? Are 21st century swingers touchy-feely types who are searching for the deeper meaning of sexual intimacy with strangers they hope to befriend?

You Rang?

I feel the "Lifestyle" has grown but I am not sure that swinging has.

There are many more people than in the "ole times" in the Lifestyle now, but the percentage of people that are in it for sex seems to be less then it used to be. I have seen this even in the last five years.

We host at a very large club here in Vegas that we have been going to about ten years. There is twice the number of people at the club now than there was five years ago, but only about 20% of the "action" that there was in that same time period.

We also see MUCH MORE DRAMA then we used to. We see more divorces in the Lifestyle then we used to, more people arguing and more tension overall.

The NEW Lifestyle has been great for business but I am not sure it has been good for the lifestyle in general.

Seems now that many people are seeking relationships. Bringing more into their core relationship then sex. Emotions, feelings and over all thinking way to hard about what this is all about.

We have seen many, if not most of our trued hard core swinger friends drift off to other things because most of the clubs have become social/dance clubs. Even the conventions started getting that way. Just this last year I saw the Conventions starting to put more importance back into Play Parties and back off spending so much time, energy and money on the dances and other things. The Reviews afterwards where the best we had seen about the conventions in about four years because of it.

I am not saying that the new Lifestyle is bad overall. I am just saying that it has changed in many many ways and when I sit back and see what is happening I am not positive that it is a good thing. I see way to many negative side effects from many of the "new" ways of this lifestyle these days.

The Old Days by us "Old Timers". Go to a party, get naked, have sex, have more sex, and if possible more sex. If we learned your name, cool, if we became friends outside with clothes on, that was cool too. If not, no biggie, there was more good sex to be had at the next party.

There is nothing wrong with making new friends in any part of our lives. When we spend so much time, energy and emotions on those friends that is starts to create drama and the breaking up of relationships then it is not something that I personally want to be involved in.

I like a simple life. I have a great relationship and the Love of my life for LIFE already. That is Laura. We have great sex, with each other and many others. We also make friends with some of the people that we have sex with.

I had someone many years ago tell me: "Have sex with them first and find out later if you like them; that way you don't miss out on lots of great sex."

I do not feel what others are doing now days is wrong FOR THEM. I just know that what I do works for me so I have to stick with it.

You Rang?

We also see MUCH MORE DRAMA then we used to. We see more divorces in the Lifestyle then we used to, more people arguing and more tension overall.

This may explain why you are seeing more drama, along with the arguing and tension.

I wonder too if people don't attend swinger clubs because they see it as a new form of accepted entertainment. Instead of another Saturday out at the strip club they go to the swingers club. This way it's possible to become physically involved if they decide to...something they can't do at a strip club.

Lee - I think this is the first time I've seen you use a smiley!

 

 

I wonder if a lot of couples aren't trying out swinging because they are in a rocky marriage and the bedroom has become boring for them. They look to swinging as a remedy. Then, when they find swinging will not solve their problem, they divorce.

 

This may explain why you are seeing more drama, along with the arguing and tension.

 

I wonder too if people don't attend swinger clubs because they see it as a new form of accepted entertainment. Instead of another Saturday out at the strip club they go to the swingers club. This way it's possible to become physically involved if they decide to...something they can't do at a strip club.

Yes, I agree with you. This may be the new accepted "fad" to go watch people have live sex.

As far at more relationship problems these days I think you may have hit on part of it, but I think a big part of it is that people feel they need so much more than just the SEX these days. They let other things become important to them. Making of friends, what you do for a living, where you live, what you drive, how many others have you partied with. All that.

I don't look to add much more to my life. My relationship is solid and very gratifying to me. We enjoy sex for the sake of sex. Some people bowl, play pool or watch movies. We like to have sex. I don't want to get "involved" with others though to distract from the greatest relationship I have had in my life with Laura. I am not looking to marry anyone else, I just want so spend some good quality naked time with them.

Veronica and I see more and more people wanting love from the one they swing with. Friendships are fine, don't get us wrong. We have made some dear and close friends, and will keep doing so, but when we are swinging, we don't need to be friends. It just used to feel more free to us. That's not to say that the new swinging is right or wrong. We just feel more pressure in it now.

Yes, I agree with you. This may be the new accepted "fad" to go watch people have live sex.

Just figured we'd stick our noses in.

We started 7 years ago (god has it been that long?) because we were a bit bored. We both had quite active social/sexual lives when we were single and to be honest, just each other after a few years did get a bit monotonous.

As far as a fad, with some it could be. So many out there not really into things and actually doing things. Maybe were just old school, as we do go to clubs with the intent of just getting it on. Friendships are cool, and yes we have close friends we swing with, but what's wrong with just going out and having a good thing?

Dave deals with a lot of soldiers who claim to be swingers. They don't know about him and he wouldn't tell them. For one thing, they are the types hitting the boards as single male swingers. For them it's a way to be a "Playa" and find ways to "hit" someone's wife (like the soldiers aren't gone too much as it is).

We are not old timers but I miss the old times anyway. I think you guys might be on to something about the fad thing. The club we regularly attend has been having record attendance lately; in fact, last weekend was the first time in their history they had to turn people away because the club was too full. But as little as a year ago, by ten in the evening the play room would be packed, and you would have to often wait a while to get in to play. Friday they were turning people away at the door and we went in the play room and there were only two couples in there. It was never full all night.

It is actually discouraging some nights that everyone seems to be there for reasons unknown to me, but it apparently isn't for sex. I have been thinking that since we have seen a lot more mention of swinging on TV and on the internet that we have gotten a lot more people who come to the club, but have no intention of having sex with anybody else. I have also seen a lot more drama lately between couples that should be at a marriage counselor instead of a swingers club. But if it is a fad then it should run its course in due time, we'll just have to wait and see I guess.

You are right. We all just have to wait and see. But to us from what we have seen in the clubs, if it's a fad, it's not going anywhere too soon.

Are swingers - real swingers - going to start feeling like some exotic animal in a zoo being watched by the passing crowds who paid their $45 to get into the "zoo club" that night?

The crowds applauded when, to everyone's delight, the Homo sapiens mated right before their eyes!

LOL Very funny thought, and yes we have had some friends tell us that they feel that way nowadays. We just tell them have fun with it if they can.

You are right. We all just have to wait and see. But to us, from what we have seen in the clubs, if it's a fad, it's not going anywhere too soon.

I hate to agree with you on this but I do. I don't think it will go away anytime soon. Many feel they are swingers when they are voyeurs and exhibitionists that have found swingers clubs as their dream world.

I feel the Internet has had a great deal to do with the changes. It used to be you had to know someone to find out about a club or party or you had to go buy the "dirty papers" at the bookstore to find out. Now you hit the net and in 10 seconds you can find hundreds of parties and clubs to go to. Swinging has gone "mainstream."

Been very good for business but only time will tell what it does to the Lifestyle. Seems that the press normally finds the wannabe swingers or the couples that are breaking up and using swinging to fix something that is not going to be fixed when they do interviews also. That does not help the cause.

are swingers - real swingers - going to start feeling like some exotic animal in a zoo being watched by the passing crowds who paid their $45 to get into the "zoo club" that night?

 

the crowds applauded when, to everyone's delight, the homo sapiens mated right before their eyes!

 

hahahaha.... I just spit water all over my keyboard!

Lee, it's sad to say this, but it's true. You are right: the net has changed it in a lot of ways. Some good, some bad. But you just have to wait and see if the bad fades away, and try to have fun with it.

Lee, it's sad to say this.,but it's true. You are right: the net has changed it in a lot of ways, some good, some bad. But you just have to wait and see if the bad fades away, and try to have fun with it.

We always have fun. That is the ONLY reason we are in this Lifestyle!

How far back in time do you want go? To summarize our baby boomer generation for the past 50+ years or so, we can categorize the time into three major phases that impacted us all with a rolling summarized impact:

1. The PILL in the early 60’s gave women freedom to say “YES’ without the worry…

2. The VHS tape in the 70’s brought XXX action into our homes and bedrooms…

3. The advent of VIAGRA has allowed us to relive our youth again…

We enjoyed the brutal physical aspects… we are just at the tip of the ice berg discovering the emotional aspects and rewards of it……

For those of us with kids past their teens now…. Our three phases of the past 30+ years is just a whatever in their time…

We always have fun. That is the ONLY reason we are in this Lifestyle!

I don't want to give the wrong impression, we always have fun too. The day it ceases to be fun is the day we quit. I just wish they would let me charge the gawkers a reasonable fee for watching. I guess the monkeys and lions don't get paid at the zoo either......but they do get room and board.

I think we need to have little badges you wear, they could have a gawker badge, one for show offs, etc.

Look honey, I finally got my multiple partner humper merit badge tonight.

I have to agree about missing the old days. We are in the lifestyle to have sex with other people, and as Lee put it, if we find out their name at the end, good. Now, though, it seems that people at clubs are looking for a relationship. We already have one with each other. We just want to have sex with other people. Why has that become so hard to do?

The club we were in on Saturday was packed everywhere but in the play rooms. People were actually standing outside the play room narrating the few couples that were playing and then it was only with the person they came with. What happened to the time when it was a room of hot sweaty people rolling around together, without having to know about your feelings or what you do on vacation.

Has anybody else noticed when this thread started in 2002 that the complaint was nobody wanted anything but a quick sex fix and in 2004 the complaints are that nobody wants just a quick sex fix???

One point I've not really seen brought up is about STD's. The AIDS factor, which would certainly make folks tend to be more choosey in who they elect to play with. While no certificate would guarantee that the sexual partner does not have the AIDS virus, it certainly could make others want to know more about them, and/or observe their sexual behavior, before they decide to indulge in sex with them.

Nothing I am going to say here will really make a difference with anyone when it comes to sexual behavior or AIDS.

I personally have had two people in my life die from AIDS. Neither of them were in the lifestyle. They where just common everyday people that hooked up with the wrong person at some point in their life. Since you can carry it for years before being detected you're right, no certificate is worth the paper it is printed on.

Laura and I also are very good friends with a couple in their 70's that have been swingers in the true Old Time sense of it their whole lives. There have been articles written about them. It is printed that the male of the couple has been with over 9,000 women. The lady of the couple I would judge is running a close second to him. Now many would say, NO WAY would I have sex with them since they have been with so many people. Fact is that they are in great health and pass all tests once a year with flying colors. They are healthier then many people I know that is half their age and they are much more active then most also.

Fact is, no matter how well we get to know someone, we will never know. Each and everyone of us takes that chance each and every time we have sex with ANYONE!

It is all personal decision how we lead our lives. I know many would not have me just because of the way I think and my lifestyle. Then again, there are many out there that I feel the same way about. It is all personal choice and what works for each of us. Just because I have known them for years does not make them safe.

Ah the good old day of swinging.

I caught the tail end of the "sexual revolution" (78-84) and had numerous partners during that time. If I concentrate I have a clear memory of about 70% of the encounters and can recall about 25% of the names. It was all about sex. Angel came of age having sex with members of her clique. It didn't matter who she slept with that night as long as he/she/they were part of the group. She can remember every name but only flashes of the episode.

Once we found each other it took all of 3 months for us to bring swinging into our relationship. We decided early on that swinging was just about sex and fulfilling fantasies. After we started in the lifestyle with friends we expanded to a swing club about 3 hours away. We hooked up with people, had a great time, and even became friendly with some but the main purpose is fulfilling sexual fantasies we can't do alone.

Since our first trip to a club in '99 we noticed that more and more people attended as a curiosity. Towel sharks became more obvious, "We're just here to watch" became the couples' byline, and our trips became less frequent. We could make a fortune having sex in hotel rooms while men watched and jacked off why should we pay the $75 cover to do the same thing? We still visit clubs a few times a year but usually meet couples through ads or and singles at vanilla functions.

Interesting comments by all.

We were last in the lifestyle about 10 years ago, and haven't been to any clubs since, so I can't comment on how things have changed there. The other comments all sound plausible, though. It's for sure it's a LOT easier now to find out about swinging and go check it out. I'm sure that must add to the looky-loos.

On the other hand, in the whole debate between "sex sex" and "friends sex" folks, I think there has always been that split. What's maybe different (and I'm just speculating) is that the rise of the Internet and clubs are bringing these two groups of swingers together more, so the contrast stands out more.

The good side of the Internet, for folks like us, is it makes it a lot easier to find folks that like us, and like what we like. We were never able to fit into the mainstream at the clubs. Just about all the popular folks there are a certain "type", and they have their little groups of friends. That's all entirely natural and understandable, and I'm not complaining. But it did mean that we, who even 10 years ago were looking for more action than talk, often didn't get much because we were too far away from that "type". So for us these new Internet ad engines are great. I just wish they had better search engines so we could do keyword searches into profiles.

Anyway, either way, it seems to me that anyone who puts in the effort can find compatible folks.

I'll finish with one speculation: the rise of the "zoo" club will lead to a return of smaller "real" clubs, and by this I don't just mean night-clubs, for people who want action. It used to be that some parties we went to had kind of a rule. You had to participate with someone not your partner within a certain number of parties. Didn't have to be in the public room, but you had to do *something* that was real swinging, and not just watching. If you couldn't do that within, say, 3 parties you were dis-invited. Harsh, perhaps, but these were fairly small house parties and there simply wasn't room for a lot of spectators. Plus, folks in such a club tend to feel a little "used" by the look-but-don't-touch crowd, as indeed we may have seen a bit in this thread.

So far, I like the net Internet-enabled swing world, but then we haven't been back long. We'll see how it turns out.

OK, well since we've only been in it for over a year, we can't tell you what it was like.

We can tell you that we're still in the "kid in a candy store" phase. We started out trying to meet couples, met some, but never found it to be all that great, somehow it's never a four-way match. We were never in this for friendship in the first place. We want to know your sexual self, not your emotional self. We've met many people that although we didn't click personality wise when the party started we clicked like that. We've come to love the house party/hotel party, where there's a buffet to choose from. hehe...

I'm sure in the past you had to be a little more involved with your swinging partners. I'm sure the amount of people was far fewer than today. Today, we can go to a party and pretty much decide how we want the night to go. She might want girl play, or maybe three guys. He might want two doing oral, or whatever! So we get the pleasure of why we came to do this in the first place, added sexual spice and fantasy's come true.

We've also found that you get out of it what you put into it. we tell it like it is and we make no excuses or false statements. We love sex, we are quite playful and we'll make you smile!! We really could care less about your kids or jobs!! We want to know how many orgasms you'd like and how you like to be touched or stroked? what makes you wet or hard? So for us and many others we are meeting, this is about sex! And the women are driving it much more too these days, sexual diversity is here to stay.

No doubt that social media has been the biggest change in swinging for us. I started swinging with my ex in 1980 and our options to meet people were swinging magazines, newspaper classified ads, or bars. We don't meet people on the internet, we have biggest success at social events or at a resort nude beach. It has been easy for us to swing at nude beaches, you have a resort right there and as soon as you take your clothes off on the beach 3 or 4 couples approach us. So easy, and if you are staying a week or 10 days you can try several couples.