Married going alone at swinging

[mywildside 23]

I have a difficult situation, I am really interested in swinging, I would prefer a 3 way with another man, I love the idea of my beautiful wife being with a good looking large, thick lover. When we make love she love's the idea but will go no further. I have decided to try to go it alone. I have female friends that would like to join me. My question to the experienced swingers, is how do you feel with married people swinging without their spouse.

[Guest MrsVan]

MrVan and I personally when we see a post come through to us that is a married male wanting to join a MFM with us and he is participating alone, we tend to not get involved. For us it is the issue of whether or not your spouse actually knows that you are living this lifestyle and if the spouse does not know then it can be that your relationship could be rocky and your trying to seek something outside of the marriage.

 

There may be couples out there that are comfortable with you playing alone but for us we prefer the single type. Hope it works out for you but if you decide to play alone and the spouse does not know that your wanting to join this lifestyle, I would suggest in talking this over and letting the spouse know your interests.

[Sweet_Candy 54]

How ironic . . . we spoke with a single male last night and the first question we had for him was "Are you really single?". We're not into the drama that can arise from a married person swinging without their partner's knowledge. We would pass . . .to many out there who are single.

[Spoomonkey 421]

There are far too many threads on this topic to beat the dead horse... Though I am sure it will be brought up over and over...

 

Do a search for "cheater". You'll discover how we feel about it fairly quickly.

 

Try this one and this one to start.

[Greg & Sheryl 368]

Generally, it's frowned upon. It's plausible that you and one of your female friends could attend a local on-premise swing club together and play without incident, but most veteran swingers will want to avoid to drama that usually comes from your situation.

[intuition897 2,179]

Does anybody have :slapsforehead: smiley?

 

WildSide, I have posted at length about this topic, so I won't go into it again. I'll just say three things:

 

1) Don't do it.

2) Search the boards here for "cheating" or "cheater"

3) Talk to your wife and explain your feelings. If you are too ashamed to admit that you are willing to cheat on her to satisfy your sexual curiosity, then I'd say you have a good idea where to start fixing problems.

[JnCC 24]

I love the idea of my beautiful wife being with a good looking large, thick lover. When we make love she loves the idea but will go no further. I have decided to try to go it alone.

I understand your frustration, but I think "brickbatting" you over this cheating thing may be a little premature. You might not realize it, but you're actually pretty lucky to be married to a woman who takes things a little slowly at first. Divorce courts are full of people who have done stupid things on impulse.

 

It sounds like she's open to the idea of including a third. Score one major point in your favor. At least you're both talking about it...and she's smiling.

 

Have you considered that the problem might be not so much what you're proposing, but how you're going to bridge the gap between "fantasy" and "reality?"

 

Some people like to dive headlong into new things. Others like to take their time and "ease" their way into them. Your wife may be one of the latter. If that's the case, you might want to consider taking a number of small, baby steps into this. Don't think about how to make this happen right now...think about what you'll need to do to make this happen somewhere down the road. Break it down into the smallest steps you can think of...then break it down some more. I've known one couple who wrote down what they were going to do...and what their limits were. For example...

 

1) dancing with other men...no slow dancing

 

2) slow dancing...no fondling

 

3) fondling...no kissing

 

You can see where I'm going with this. Take it at her pace...and be there to catch her if she goes a little too far.

 

I don't see any reason to risk tanking your marriage over this. Not yet, at least. Going from "0" to "full-bop swinger" in one step is a scary proposition for any sane, rational person...especially if it involves a single male.

[bluesplyr 15]

I can certainly understand the problems that can arise from a guy swinging alone. This said, if a marriage is kept together merely for convenience sake and lacking any physical contact, then this is the reason I am engaged in the lifestyle. I have met some nice people, but for the most part they have a spouse which helps avoid the possibility of any strong emotional attachment. This is my story and i'm sticking to it.

[VegasLee 1,486]

I can certainly understand the problems that can arise from a guy swinging alone. This said, if a marriage is kept together merely for convenience sake and lacking any physical contact, then this is the reason I am engaged in the lifestyle. I have met some nice people, but for the most part they have a spouse which helps avoid the possibility of any strong emotional attachment. This is my story and i'm sticking to it.

 

Mr. Bluesplyr,

 

You did not join the lifestyle. You joined the "cheaters of America" group. Swinging is about more then just the sex. It is about being honest with all concerned and staying in your marriage for merely the convenience is not being honest with Anyone involved.

 

Don't try to kid us even though your are kidding yourself.

[bluesplyr 15]

I can't remember where the ladies involved were not aware of my situation. As a matter of fact, on numerous occasions they felt more relaxed and safe.

 

This is my story and I'm sticking to it.

[VegasLee 1,486]

bluesplyr said:

I can't remember where the ladies involved were not aware of my situation. As a matter of fact, on numerous occasions they felt more relaxed and safe.

 

This is my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

Does that include your wife knowing?

[Paphian 16]

I can't remember where the ladies involved were not aware of my situation. As a matter of fact, on numerous occasions they felt more relaxed and safe.

 

Does that include your wife, or does she get to remain ignorant of the situation for your 'convenience'?

 

I've been married and divorced. Neither is easy. Frankly, I think those of you claiming to be "married for convenience" and "in a sexless marriage" need to grow some balls, be a real man, and make a decision. Either decide to stay married, quit cheating, and work to fix your marriage; or get the hell out.

 

90% of the cheating men I have ever known stay married for their convenience, not that of their spouse or children. They stay married because it's a way to keep that unpaid maid and sex service that they find so useful and comforting while they're not out fucking around. They stay married because they think it shows them in a good light in their community ("Isn't he a great father?"). Then they're the first to "dump the bitch" if she returns the favor by cheating on them.

 

If I didn't have scruples, I could get all the sex I wanted by helpin' your cheated-on-wives to return the favor--and trust me, there are plenty of guys out there who will and are.

[JnCC 24]

It's pointless to try and filter our own values through somebody else's life experience. Every time I see somebody offering a critical perspective on this subject, I wonder how this would be playing out if Mr. "I'm no cheater!" had married Mr. "Well, I AM a cheater's" wife, and vice-versa. Would they still be so sanctimonious about cheating?

 

It's like listening to guys who have never been in combat talk about what they would do if somebody were shooting at them. It's all piss-and-wind, not worth listening to. They're writing a story of their lives in which they are the "The Hero," and anybody who doesn't subscribe to their code-of-conduct is somehow a "child of some lesser God."

 

Well, I don't buy it.

 

Some people are fortunate to marry a spouse whose sexual needs and values are identical to their own. A few are able to bring those needs into alignment. The rest do the best they can to keep their families whole, while getting their own physical or emotional needs met. I'm reminded of a guy who's wearing a colostomy bag...it ain't pretty, but it's what he needs to get through the day. The last thing he needs is me or anybody else telling him how repulsive he is.

 

As for whether or not you've "joined the lifestyle," or joined "cheaters of America," that's easy. Go to the guys website, click on one of the lifestyle clubs who advertise there, and tell them that you're married, planning a visit to Las Vegas, and would like to visit their club without your wife present. It doesn't matter what he says...if they take your money (and I've never known a club that wouldn't) you're "joining the lifestyle."

[VegasLee 1,486]

I'm reminded of a guy who's wearing a colostomy bag...it ain't pretty, but it's what he needs to get through the day. The last thing he needs is me or anybody else telling him how repulsive he is.

 

As for whether or not you've "joined the lifestyle," or joined "cheaters of America," that's easy. Go to the guys website, click on one of the lifestyle clubs who advertise there, and tell them that you're married, planning a visit to Las Vegas, and would like to visit their club without your wife present. It doesn't matter what he says...if they take your money (and I've never known a club that wouldn't) you're "joining the lifestyle."

 

your comparison does not hold water at all. One is a "requirment" and one is a choice. Apples and oranges here.

 

Yep, all clubs will take their money. Let him tell people he is there without his wife and he finds that the club becomes a spectator sport for him. I see it many times each week.

 

Finding someone that works for you in your married life means working at it. Not just marrying for the sake of getting married. Honesty up front helps alot also but seems that most of the "regular" folks don't seem to think honesty is as important as the ones of us that have found great relationships.

 

Our lifestyle would go a long way to lowering the divorce rate even if they did not have sex with others. Trust, honesty seems to fix many things in life but most of the people in the world can not deal on that level.

 

Even the ones that are kidding theirself they are doing the right thing for the "sake of their family".

[intuition897 2,179]

It's pointless to try and filter our own values through somebody else's life experience. Every time I see somebody offering a critical perspective on this subject, I wonder how this would be playing out if Mr. "I'm no cheater!" had married Mr. "Well, I AM a cheater's" wife, and vice-versa. Would they still be so sanctimonious about cheating?

...

Some people are fortunate to marry a spouse whose sexual needs and values are identical to their own. A few are able to bring those needs into alignment. The rest do the best they can to keep their families whole, while getting their own physical or emotional needs met. I'm reminded of a guy who's wearing a colostomy bag...it ain't pretty, but it's what he needs to get through the day. The last thing he needs is me or anybody else telling him how repulsive he is.

 

I happen to believe that there are more people married than should be. Being single is not a tragedy. I don't know what the legal definition of it is, but the kind of dysynchronous sexual relationship you refer to is what I woud call an "irreconcilable difference". If they still choose to remain married, even though their sex life is dead and buried, the fact still remains that there IS NO EXCUSE FOR DISHONESTY. There are always other, more honest, options. Even if they're not the easiest ones to take. Marriage is supposed to be an equal relationship, where both people give and get equal respect and treatment. If you liken it to a company owned by two people, stepping out on your spouse without telling her because she "just wouldn't understand" or becacuse you "don't want to hurt her feelings", is a bit like selling your partner's stock in the company from under her nose...for her own good. Except she's not seeing a thin dime of the profit.

 

Comparing an affair to a colostomy bag is probably a pretty close match. You can hide it under your everyday clothes, but it's still full of shit.

 

It's like listening to guys who have never been in combat talk about what they would do if somebody were shooting at them. It's all piss-and-wind, not worth listening to. They're writing a story of their lives in which they are the "The Hero," and anybody who doesn't subscribe to their code-of-conduct is somehow a "child of some lesser God."

 

Well, I don't buy it.

 

I'm quite sure you can't say you know everything about everyone. Are you certain that they don't know what they're talking about??

[mrs good times 73]

Comparing an affair to a colostomy bag is probably a pretty close match. You can hide it under your everyday clothes, but it's still full of shit.

 

Well said Intuition!

[sereneiders 263]

VegasLee said:

Mr. Bluesplyr,

 

You did not join the lifestyle. You joined the "cheaters of America" group. Swinging is about more then just the sex. It is about being honest with all concerned and staying in your marriage for merely the convenience is not being honest with Anyone involved.

 

Don't try to kid us even though your are kidding yourself.

 

It's interesting to find out the side effects of this misconception of swinging as having sex without any moral concern, that usually bring up non swingers with this questions.

 

Spoomonkey referred to a couple of discussions about cheating, one of them from Uomo, and at the #70 post in Uomo's Blowjob Hypothetical topic, Ginger Meadows gave us an example of the way this misconception is affecting her children's custody in a court.

 

Besides the drama that may bring to others swingers to play with cheaters, this misconception have broad consequences in the way the lifestyle is perceived from the rest of the society on the grounds of a fixed morality, because of a supposedly lack of morality we swingers have.

 

In JustAskJulie's What's swinging to you? several board members tried to state a definition for swinging (including the question of why is so important to define that), and again the cheating issue brings up as to point out what swinging is not.

 

One of the things that most called my attention in our beginnings, when meeting the first swingers we ever saw, and having ourselves the same sort of prejudices, is the extremely high moral standards most swingers have for themselves and for other people, and as for me, those moral standards are way more strict than the fixed one our society impose to married couples.

 

When we "ignore" the "sexual faithful" standard conception to share our sexuality with other people, we know we face certain risks, ones that usually would jeopardize a marriage, thus we need to reinforce our marital contracts with other rules that engage us to pay attention to several aspects of your relationship, some so subtle that aren't even mentioned in the social standard contract.

 

This means an extra effort we have make, and not as the price for being able to include third ones in our beds, instead that use to be a consequence of being used to make such an effort before becoming swingers.

 

But this is, at last, an extra effort, we need to focus on it, we may need from time to time help to keep focused, we know that, so we also use to provide that help if requested or needed by others (for example, avoiding adding emotional stress in a sexual encounter with another marriage party), so we end up paying attention and taking care of everyone involved, and this leads to the needing of being honest, and for our honesty to be respected.

 

Swinging is a way to enhance our marriages, while cheating is a way that may lead to degrade it, and because of that we're so against the cheating whole idea. And by "our" marriages, I mean not only "my" marriage, also the couple sharing our bed's marriage.

 

The drama of being with cheaters doesn't come just from the eventual problem coming from the cheated one who may bring up, the drama may be private, and come just from endorsing something against the private extra rules we enforce for ourselves, because if we endorse them, why we wouldn't break them? Being with a cheater could lead to a drama inside our marriage, one the cheater won't even be aware of, and one a proper swinger will (or is supposed to) avoid to start.

 

If there is something that bring to surface here, is that "having sex with anyone without any moral concept" is something that use to happen but lacks a name on it own, and because of that it seems so hard for the lifestylers to point out this huge difference.

 

PS: Why not "cheaters of the world"? I am pretty sure that most swingers around the world share the same moral standards than the American ones (joke, don't answer this one, please)

[poster_guy03 15]

....90% of the cheating men I have ever known stay married for their convenience, not that of their spouse or children. They stay married because it's a way to keep that unpaid maid and sex service that they find so useful and comforting while they're not out fucking around......

 

I wonder what % of non-cheating men stay in their marriages just for the same thing (as opposed to being there for a warm, loving relationship). Just because you're not cheating doesn't mean your motives are pure.

[JnCC 24]

I'm quite sure you can't say you know everything about everyone. Are you certain that they don't know what they're talking about??

No, I don't. But to be honest, I don't think that swingers are any more or any less honest with their spouses than anybody else. They're more honest about their sexual needs, to be sure. But in other areas, they're about the same as non-swingers, as far as I can tell. If they were totally honest, there'd be a lot more divorces among them.

 

I don't know what's going on with these guys who cheat. Maybe they're really good, caring husbands and fathers. Maybe they've searched heaven and earth, trying to get their wives interested in sex again. Maybe they're hard workers and good providers, totally honest with their wives about everything except where they're really at when they're supposed to be working late at the office.

 

Or maybe their wives are the glue that's holding their families together, and the guys are nothing but selfish, lower-than-whale-shit jerks and opportunists, risking it all for some cheap thrills.

 

I've known both kinds. I've also been in a stable, happy, "mostly" honest, non-cheating marriage. I know how much work it takes...and I know what the rewards are. I'm not insensitive to the issue. But when it comes to other peoples marriages, and why they do what they do, the only thing I know, is that I don't know.

 

I DO understand why cheating is such an anathema to swinging couples. As I stated in a previous post, when we did this as a couple, we avoided cheaters at all costs (unfortunately, one of the worst would-be offenders was the husband of a couple that was quite close to us). What I don't understand, is why people seem to go out of their way to insult and degrade them. If you don't want to play with them, just say so. You don't need to lecture them on their evil ways. They have "Dr. Phil" and "Dr. Laura" for that...

 

I think a little dishonesty in a marriage is a good thing. It's kind of like the oil in an engine that allows the moving parts to slide past one another, without actually touching. Maybe having an affair is like adding some sort of "relationship STP" to your engine...it gums up a healthy one, but lets you squeeze a few more miles out of one that's about to expire anyway.

[Spoomonkey 421]

sereneiders said:

Swinging is a way to enhance our marriages, while cheating is a way that may lead to degrade it

 

This is the very simple point that a few folks are just too mentally numb, emotionally narrow or irreparably bitter to get...

 

Everyone goes through bad experiences - either in marriage or some other very close relationship. The logic error that I am seeing is that somehow cynicism is a sign of wisdom Maybe it is just some pathetic badge of courage...

 

I know what a bad marriage is - and I know what a good marriage is. If you're a man, you take care of your shit at home. I've always followed that - through the good times and bad - and because of it, I can be honest with my wife in all things (not just sexual). Then again, I tend to think a little honesty in a marriage is a good thing.

[intuition897 2,179]

No, I don't. But to be honest, I don't think that swingers are any more or any less honest with their spouses than anybody else. They're more honest about their sexual needs, to be sure. But in other areas, they're about the same as non-swingers, as far as I can tell. If they were totally honest, there'd be a lot more divorces among them.

 

I disagree.

 

I DO understand why cheating is such an anathema to swinging couples. As I stated in a previous post, when we did this as a couple, we avoided cheaters at all costs (unfortunately, one of the worst would-be offenders was the husband of a couple that was quite close to us). What I don't understand, is why people seem to go out of their way to insult and degrade them. If you don't want to play with them, just say so. You don't need to lecture them on their evil ways. They have "Dr. Phil" and "Dr. Laura" for that...

 

Out of concern for them. It sucks to be told flat out that you're making a really big and stooopid mistake. Makes a person feel anything but warm and fuzzy. But we don't do it to be mean to them. We just have no qualms about letting them know that we can't respect such weakness of character. But it's pretty rare that we'll dish out something as harsh as that without also offering them some suggestions for turning their situation around. If it's too difficult for them to stand up and take responsibility for their actions and decisions, well whose the hell fault is that?? We just can't, in good conscience, bite our tongues and smile pretty at them. It feels irresponsible to to not correct someone when they're doing something - or about to do something - that is going to eventually hurt somebody. It's not about being holier-than-thou; we have high standards for ourselves, it's true, but we wholeheartedly invite others to raise their own standards for themselves. Low expectations and low standards are what stirs the divorce pot.

 

I think a little dishonesty in a marriage is a good thing. It's kind of like the oil in an engine that allows the moving parts to slide past one another, without actually touching. Maybe having an affair is like adding some sort of "relationship STP" to your engine...it gums up a healthy one, but lets you squeeze a few more miles out of one that's about to expire anyway.

 

Yikes. I really disagree with this. Start out honest, and stay honest, and you never need to lose sleep at night. Don't start nothin', won't be nothin'.

[Mr&MrsSwing 16]

I would just have to tell you that if you truly love your wife, you will tell her about your feelings. Don't go and do this without her knowing no matter how curious you are, because it is true, you will be a cheater not a swinger.

[JnCC 24]

Jeezus girl, where do you find time for a life?

 

If I took on the responsibility for telling everybody in the whole world what I thought they were doing wrong, and what I thought they needed to do to correct it, I wouldn't have time to sit here and respond to these inane posts.

 

Besides which, I'd probably be spending more time on the floor than I would standing up.

 

If there's a possibility it could cause physical injury or harm anybody outside the immediate family (domestic violence or drunk drivers, for example) I'll speak up. Otherwise, I have neither the time nor inclination to get involved in other peoples family affairs. I will help where help is asked for, but I don't butt into other peoples business, and I'd appreciate it if they'll refrain from butting into mine.

 

If any man ever starts being totally honest, his marriage and/or social life will be OVER. Finis. Kaput.

 

"Dear, let's not buy anything more out of the Frederick's Catalogue until you've had a chance to talk to those Jenny Craig people, mmmm-kay?"

 

"I don't need to take any 'little blue pills' when I'm fantasizing about the babysitter..."

 

"You know dear, there's hardly a day that goes by, that I don't think about my high-school sweetheart."

 

"Those aren't tits. Those are boobs...big, floppy, boobs. Now your little sister...she has some great tits, I tell ya"

 

"That tattoo above your ass looks like it came out of a J.C. Whitney catalogue. Couldn't you afford something original?"

 

"Oh yea...the best blowjob I ever got was from one of your Bridesmaids. What? Did I say something wrong?"

 

"You gots one ugly-ass pussy. Don't you think that thang would look better with some hair on it? Well, I do"

 

"How cute! The 'blue' in the bluebirds tattooed on your breast brings out the blue in the veins running all over them"

 

"No, that dress doesn't 'make your ass look fat.' Your ass IS fat."

 

And the one that a lot of guys would like to say, but don't...

 

"The thing I like most about swinging is that, even though I love you more and more each day, I'm getting really tired of fucking you."

 

"You want the truth? You can't handle the truth..."

[funtwo 15]

Remember it wasn't me that said this, I believe it was the owner of Plato's Repeat "Swingers are composed of guys who are afraid to cheat on their wives". Just goes to show how many different points of view there are. We too, are always in a lot of discomfort when we knowingly are in the company of men or women who are cheating. Is it our own insecurity that creates this discomfort or what? I don't believe that it is some holier than thou attitude, 'cause we aren't. My 2¢.

[just1gurl 15]

"stuff" that comes out of our mouth while by passing our head isn't necessarily "truth".

[intuition897 2,179]

Cain asked, "Am I my brother's keeper?" If you ask me, he was supposed to be.

 

We're obviously in different camps: Keepers and Non-Keepers. Hey, it may not be my business to actually LIVE somebody's life for them, but it doesn't stop me from pulling someone out of traffic when I see they're about to get hit with an emotional tractor-trailer. Just because you don't see the scars doesn't mean they're not there. It's the emotional shit that really screws people up, not just physical damage. And what happens when people get all fucked up? They make life miserable for themselves AND the rest of us.

 

And BTW, there's a big difference between dishonesty and tact. There are a lot of ungenerous comments (AKA "truths") I could make about that last segment of your post, but really...what would it get us but a lot of hard feelings? I will say that those "truths" are irrelevant, and that bringing them up serves no purpose other than to make someone feel like shit. So, as my Momma taught me, if you can't say anything nice, you don't say anything at all. But there are some issues/realities that are important to bring up and deal with, like sexual compatibility, dissatisfaction, intimacy issues, infatuations and emotional attachments outside the relationship and the like... It is unfair to not give your equal partner the dignity of a choice.

[hilltop 16]

mywildside said:

My question to the experienced swingers, is how do you feel with married people swinging without their spouse.

Anyone remember this line?

 

Hey, he posed the question . . . careful what you ask for.

[Paphian 16]

poster_guy03 said:

I wonder what % of non-cheating men stay in their marriages just for the same thing (as opposed to being there for a warm, loving relationship). Just because you're not cheating doesn't mean your motives are pure.

Quite true. And just as dishonest, IMO.

 

The difference, in the case you cite, is that one is being dishonest to oneself, rather than to another. Being dishonest to oneself doesn't (as often) screw up the lives of others, nor does it remove the ability for another to consent to a situation.

 

To put it in more graphic (and maybe more understandable, for some) terms:

 

Staying just for the "maid service and sex", while remaining faithful, is like self-flagellation: you only hurt yourself.

 

Staying and cheating is like whipping someone who hasn't explicitly requested you to do so.

[VegasLee 1,486]

JnCC said:

If any man ever starts being totally honest, his marriage and/or social life will be OVER. Finis. Kaput.

I see someone does not know the difference between being Honest/truthful and being an asshole.

 

Some here have met me. Those people know I say what I have to say right out front. Some can deal with it, some can't.

 

Laura knows I say what I have to say weather it be about her weight, blowjobs or the hottie in the casino and yes, she does have things that make her ass look big. I don't like her to wear them but that is her choice.

 

Funny, I still have friends and Laura is still with me after all these years.

 

Truth/Honesty can be 100% all the time. It is about HOW you say it.

[EvilMJ 65]

VegasLee said:

 

Truth/Honesty can be 100% all the time. It is about HOW you say it.

Exactly. You just summed up anything I have to say.

 

How do I feel about married people swinging without their spouse. If the spouse knew about it and approved (yes I would to talk to/meet her) then I would be fine. Otherwise I would not get involved. I don't care what his motives are, I would be devastated if my husband cheated on me, therefore I don't want to be a party to hurting another woman in the same manner. Simple as that. I could not be happy with myself knowing that I hurt someone so much just for sex. Not for me.

[TNT 1,155]

JnCC said:

If any man ever starts being totally honest, his marriage and/or social life will be OVER. Finis. Kaput.

 

"Dear, let's not buy anything more out of the Frederick's Catalogue until you've had a chance to talk to those Jenny Craig people, mmmm-kay?"

Ted lets me know if I'm starting to gain weight...Getting a little chunky there aren't you sugar butts.

 

Quote

"I don't need to take any 'little blue pills' when I'm fantasizing about the babysitter..."

Well...NA as we don't have babysitters, but he does let me know when he's fantasizing about others as I do him.

 

Quote

"You know dear, there's hardly a day that goes by, that I don't think about my high-school sweetheart."

Good grief, I hope there NEVER comes a day that he does not think about his high school sweetheart....I'm his high school sweetheart

 

Quote

"Those aren't tits. Those are boobs...big, floppy, boobs. Now your little sister...she has some great tits, I tell ya"

Ummm, my boobs are not big and are not floppy and they are much, much nicer than my sisters

 

Quote

"That tattoo above your ass looks like it came out of a J.C. Whitney catalogue. Couldn't you afford something original?"

Sorry, but again I have an original tattoo above my ass, custom designed

 

Quote

"Oh yea...the best blowjob I ever got was from one of your Bridesmaids. What? Did I say something wrong?"

Well, it wasn't one of my bridesmaids as I didn't have any, but it was a friend of ours...I'm good, but I will never be able to do what she did to him...I just will never be able to deep throat thim and lick his balls with my tongue at the same time.

 

Quote

"You gots one ugly-ass pussy. Don't you think that thang would look better with some hair on it? Well, I do"

I've seen ugly pussies...mine is pretty and it has no hair on it at all...Ted seems to enjoy it very much.

 

Quote

"How cute! The 'blue' in the bluebirds tattooed on your breast brings out the blue in the veins running all over them"

NA....I don't have veins on my breasts.

 

Quote

"No, that dress doesn't 'make your ass look fat.' Your ass IS fat."

Yep, I've got a fat ass...but obviously Ted likes it as he rarely can keep his hands off of it...and he does tell me when I wear something that makes me look like crap.

 

Quote

"The thing I like most about swinging is that, even though I love you more and more each day, I'm getting really tired of fucking you."

Well, there are numerous times either one of us will ask the other " I feel like a little strange this weekend, do you?".

 

Quote

"You want the truth? You can't handle the truth..."

A funny quote, but yes some of us can handle the truth.

 

Ted and I are brutally honest with each other and because we are it is difficult for us to understand why others are not. Even though we both believe that if you are not happy in your present relationship, then do something about it.

 

However, we have been privy to marriages where we know that either one or both spouses are cheating...some where they know and some where they don't know. In some cases, we understand why they stay and why they are cheating and we cannot fault them for that...it's their life and they have made a conscious decision to stay and do what they are doing.

 

Would we ever play with someone that we knew was cheating on their SO...in some cases yes....most cases no. In some cases you have to look at it as...Is it betrayal if the ones involved don't see it as betrayal ?

[WesternSwing 504]

EvilMJ said:

How do I feel about married people swinging without their spouse. If the spouse knew about it and approved (yes I would to talk to/meet her) then I would be fine. Otherwise I would not get involved. I don't care what his motives are, I would be devastated if my husband cheated on me, therefore I don't want to be a party to hurting another woman in the same manner. Simple as that. I could not be happy with myself knowing that I hurt someone so much just for sex. Not for me.

Same with us. We have met with a guy that is married WITH the approval of his wife. They are swingers from a few hours away and he was in town for business for two days. We had chatted with them on Yahoo! several times and when he came to town she called Mrs. WS and asked if it would be okay if he met us for dinner. But any other situation like that and we'd assume he was cheating, and like you said, we don't want to be the cause of anybody else's drama. We don't need some jilted spouse stalking us or coming at us with a gun.

[WesternSwing 504]

JnCC said:

If any man ever starts being totally honest, his marriage and/or social life will be OVER. Finis. Kaput.

The same could be said if a woman was ever totally honest with her husband/boyfriend. What you are suggesting here is conditional love: "Honey, I love you even though you've gained a few pounds, but I'd love you more if you would lose them." That is such a crock of shit. It's funny how men will hold themselves to a different set of physical standards then they do their wife/girlfriend.

 

I'm going to play Devil's advocate here for just this reason.

 

JnCC said:

"Dear, let's not buy anything more out of the Frederick's Catalogue until you've had a chance to talk to those Jenny Craig people, mmmm-kay?"

"Honey, why don't you join Gold's Gym before you insist that you wear the same size Levis you did in high school. I'm getting tired of your hairy belly hanging over your belt."

 

JnCC said:

"I don't need to take any 'little blue pills' when I'm fantasizing about the babysitter..."

"Yeah, I am really horny tonight, Bob. I get that way when I think about your best friend."

 

JnCC said:

"You know dear, there's hardly a day that goes by, that I don't think about my high-school sweetheart."

"God, I remember Bill in high school... He was such a sweety. I should have married him, he's now a rich doctor you know. So did you call the unemployment office today about your check?"

 

JnCC said:

"Those aren't tits. Those are boobs...big, floppy, boobs. Now your little sister...she has some great tits, I tell ya"

That's not a dick... now your little brother, THAT DUDE IS HUNG!"

 

JnCC said:

"That tattoo above your ass looks like it came out of a J.C. Whitney catalogue. Couldn't you afford something original?"

"Yup, that Harley tattoo is original, just like everybody else's."

 

JnCC said:

"Oh yea...the best blowjob I ever got was from one of your Bridesmaids. What? Did I say something wrong?"

"The best I ever got it was from your best man in the brides room right before I walked down the isle. Man, that guy could pound me into tomorrow. Do you think he'd like to have a threesome with us?"

 

JnCC said:

"You gots one ugly-ass pussy. Don't you think that thang would look better with some hair on it? Well, I do"

God, would you trim your pubic hair, you look like the missing link down there. I mean after all, you make me shave mine."

 

JnCC said:

"How cute! The 'blue' in the bluebirds tattooed on your breast brings out the blue in the veins running all over them"

Does that pin-up girl have a beard??? Why'd you put it on such a hairy part of your body?"

 

JnCC said:

"No, that dress doesn't 'make your ass look fat.' Your ass IS fat."

No, tucking in that Tee shirt doesn't make you look fat... You ARE fat."

 

JnCC said:

And the one that a lot of guys would like to say, but don't...

 

"The thing I like most about swinging is that, even though I love you more and more each day, I'm getting really tired of fucking you."

Ditto.

[TNT 1,155]

WesternSwing said:

 

"Yeah, I am really horny tonight, Bob. I get that way when I think about your best friend."

I actually told Ted this ...a couple of times...the result of it was we had threesomes with both of the men I was referring to.

[JnCC 24]

Paphian said:

90% of the cheating men I have ever known stay married for their convenience, not that of their spouse or children.

Really? The reason I'm asking, is that I was involved with a woman who was a licensed marriage/family counselor, and she said that many couples DO stay married for the sake of their kids. She said that was why there was such a "bubble" in the divorce rate right after the youngest kid left home. I know that in my own marriage, I worked a lot harder, and stayed in it a lot longer, because we had small kids. It had nothing to do with "convenience." In fact, it was terribly Inconvenient to be married to somebody I cared deeply for, but could no longer see a future with.

 

Quote

They stay married because it's a way to keep that unpaid maid and sex service that they find so useful and comforting while they're not out fucking around.

That's also very interesting, because in my experience, about 90% of the people I know who are having affairs (both M/F) claim they aren't having any sex with their spouses. They say that's what they miss...and why they're looking for physical intimacy outside the marriage.

 

Again, I don't know what's really going on...I just know what people tell me. But it was certainly true in my case.

 

BTW - I certainly didn't stay in my marriage as long as I did for the "unpaid maid service," since I WAS paying for a maid service..."Merry Maids," as I recall...and we ate out most evenings.

[bluesplyr 15]

Did I start all this!

[curiousagain 326]

I have to admit in some cases, cheating very well may be the lesser of possible evils for some. But, since all you have to go on is that person's word and they've already in your mind proved themselves dishonest by cheating, what can you do?

 

If somebody wants to cheat as long as they leave me out of it, I'm certainly not going to browbeat them over it. If they ask, I'll tell them I think it's a bad idea and all the reasons why. But, nobody should get pissy if someone is not accepting of their infidelity.

 

Besides, "no cheaters" is not "no cheaters unless you convince us it's the best for you and we'll risk all of the possible problems we could be involved in etc. " If someone says "no cheaters" shouldn't that be accepted and not questioned?

[WesternSwing 504]

It should, but you'd never believe the number of emails we get from cheaters trying to get with us even though our profile says... and I quote: "For single guys, if you are married and looking to cheat, look somewhere else. We don't endorse cheating and we will know." They still think that means every guy... but them. In fact as I looked at our profile to copy and paste this, we have a message from a single guy... you can even see his ring in his photo if you look careful.

[JnCC 24]

TNT said:

...we both believe that if you are not happy in your present relationship, then do something about it.

That...and the fact that you're able to be honest with each other about your occasional desire to play with others...are probably the reasons that you're still married.

 

How many of your other friends are still married to their high school sweethearts or first wives/husbands? In my school, it's maybe 2 dozen...out of a graduating class of almost 800.

 

Quote

...we have been privy to marriages where we know that either one or both spouses are cheating...some where they know and some where they don't know. In some cases, we understand why they stay and why they are cheating and we cannot fault them for that...it's their life and they have made a conscious decision to stay and do what they are doing.

It pains me to say this, because you guys are not known for pulling punches, but that seems like the most reasonable, non-confrontational response I've seen on the subject.

"...it's their life"

 

VegasLee said:

I see someone does not know the difference between being Honest/truthful and being an asshole.

I think "someone" does. Go back and read what I said to Intuition about "a little dishonesty being a good thing" in a marriage. "Truth" and "tact" do not almways make good bedfellows. My point was/is, that there are some things you can't say to a person, especially a person you love, without coming very close to being an asshole. Those things are best left unsaid.

 

WesternSwing said:

The same could be said if a woman was ever totally honest with her husband/boyfriend. What you are suggesting here is conditional love: "Honey, I love you even though you've gained a few pounds, but I'd love you more if you would lose them."

ALL love is "conditional love," it's just a question of degree.

 

I knew somebody would bust my chops over things a man could say to a woman and still be absolutely "truthful." You're right...the door does swing both ways. Men DO hold women to a different standard than we do ourselves. Fortunately, women hold us to a different standard also. Have you noticed all these big, tubby guys who have svelte women hanging all over them? What's with that, anyway?

 

Don't even get me started on "Harley tattoos." I know this woman...I see her around, have spoken with her a few times. She's 40-ish, seemed halfway intelligent at first, and very nice looking. But...she has this big-ass tattoo, about 4 inches tall and about 10 inches wide, right across her shoulder blades, that says "FAT BOY"

 

WTF was she thinking? Here she has this beautiful back...a back God himself couldn't improve upon, and she gets this big, stupid, commercial tattoo on it.

 

She could have just got one that says "LOSER" and probably saved herself a couple bucks.

[sereneiders 263]

Everyone have a recipe that works for him/herself and their marriages. I believe it's pointless to compare recipes since it is a matter of taste, as long as the recipe works for some people, let them use it.

 

Every recipe surely have a balance between honesty and tact, and I don't feel I would be able to set on fire someone else recipe just because it doesn't fit my personal standards or my personal taste. They're doing a dish for themselves and not for me.

 

One of the things we valuate the more is to be respectful with other people, and we like to be respected as well. It is not my business if someone else is cheating, and as someone posted, if it's the way they need to add STP to the marriage engine, and it does work, then be welcome.

 

I compared before swinging with cheating; the former is a way to enhance our marriage, while the later MAY lead to degrade it. This means it also MAY NOT lead to degrade it, and even that it MAY enhance it. I am confident about the enhancing effect swinging have in our marriage, but I am not confident about cheating.

 

And this is not a theoretical question. We're together since 15 years, and have been swinging for the last 2 years. From the very beginning we admitted we were not jealous, so we gave each other permission to eventually have an affair (which would be an open marriage, not swingers, nor cheaters... just another recipe flavor), but also asked each other not to know about these affairs, because "theoretically" if you have such an affair it would be something you do to yourself, if you "manage" to get caught, then it's very likely that you're using the affair to punish your partner. But even having this explicit permission, I didn't dare to have such an affair and let go several chances, just because I had my bit of doubt about the chance of hurting my wife's feelings should she ever find out: a theory is just that, a theory until you proof it, and if the theory is wrong, I wasn't up to (and I am still not up to) hurt my wife in any way, ever... no way. She's the best thing that happened to me, she manage to make me bring up the best from myself, I love her almost as much as I love myself, so this love is way on the top of my list, higher than my love for sex.

 

As for me, having an affair, even with her permission, MAY lead to degrade our relationship, so I didn't. But this is me, my recipe, my values, my standards, which aren't better nor worst than anyone's else recipe, values and standards.

 

Again, I believe there is a lifestyle where people have free sex without any concern for the others involved, but I don't know it's name. As for me, it isn't "swinging" because swingers sex isn't "free", it is regulated by some moral standards. These standards may vary from one to other, because these are also personal recipes, but from what can be seen in this forum, there exist high standards. Some may have a rule that lacks for others and vice versa, but there's always a set of rules to follow.

 

And, in general, it seems that cheating doesn't fit with our set of rules. So I wouldn't dare to deem cheating, I just dare to deem "cheating swingers", and just because it would mean having myself a double standard, one that, again, MAY lead to degrade my own marriage.

 

I am not up to have a double standard to satisfy my lust, so there's no way to make me have a double standard just to satisfy someone's else lust.

 

So, if you want to cheat, feel free to do it, but...

 

Please, don't call it "swinging" because that harms swingers public image.

 

Please, don't look for us to cheat in our bed, because that MAY harm my marriage so I ask you to take care of the consequences for third ones from your behavior.

 

Please, don't ask me for advice on how to be accepted by other swingers, because my advice MAY have to do with something that at last MAY harm other's swingers marriages.

 

And please, if you want to cheat with other swingers, please, let them know you're cheating, for them to evaluate the risk. Please, do not cheat on them too.

[HappyPeople 17]

I didn't see the part where he said his wife didn't know what he was up to, maybe she doesn't have a problem with him going out without her. Granted when he said "I've decided to go it alone", it didn't sound like a mutual choice by maybe it is.

 

How would that change things? Are those who are put off by married cheaters equally put off by a married person who is "allowed" to go outside the marriage?

[Thrax 384]

How would that change things? Are those who are put off by married cheaters equally put off by a married person who is "allowed" to go outside the marriage?

A married person who is "allowed" wouldn't be cheating. Whether he/she can convince potential play partners that he/she has permission is another, although related, issue. Some potential play partners might be too suspicious to consider such a match-up, while others would probably need varying degrees of proof.

[curiousagain 326]

As I have said before. I have had married women tell me they "had permission" from their husband or "he doesn't care, we have an open marriage". I simply ask them if I can call and get permission from him for my comfort. To a one, they are gone as fast as a paycheck.

 

Anybody that tells me they are cheating and it is OK with their partner or that it's because they aren't "getting any at home", I just tend to not believe them. But, maybe that's just me. I'm a little cynical at this point.

[hilltop 16]

bluesplyr said:

Did I start all this!

 You were the fuse . . . .

 

It's amazing how often this same powder keg goes off around here . . .

[Swing*8701 887]

The bottom line, this guy is a sexually immature asshole.

[Spoomonkey 421]

JnCC said:

"Dear, let's not buy anything more out of the Frederick's Catalogue... I'm getting really tired of fucking you."... "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth..."

Well - yeah...

 

If you have a wife you'd have to say these things too, I guess it would be best to keep your mouth shut...

 

Fortunately, not a single one of these resonates with me. I guess I just have a good marriage, an incredible woman and every reason in the world to be happy...

 

Sorry life gave you so many damn lemons...

[JnCC 24]

Spoomonkey said:

not a single one of these resonates with me. I guess I just have a good marriage, an incredible woman and every reason in the world to be happy...

OK, I'm going to be the "Devil's advocate" here. I'm going to ask you the questions that I've been asked...questions that a typical non-swinger would ask, given the chance.

 

"If you're so happy in your marriage, why do you spend a considerable portion of your free time seeking others? Who are you trying to convince...me, or yourself?"

 

Spoomonkey said:

Sorry life gave you so many damn lemons...

Why do you assume that "life gave me so many damn lemons?" My kids are healthy, I make a comfortable living doing a job I absolutely love, and my "personal relationships" are functioning at exactly the level of intensity and commitment I want them to. I've been in 2 marriages that lasted over 10 years each, and I'm still on good terms (some might even say "too good of terms") with my first and third wives. I'm as happy now as I was during the best years of marriage, which is to say, very happy.

 

I'm not "bitter." I prefer to think of myself as "skeptical." I have friends that have been married, in some cases, for going on 4 decades, and they seem happier with every passing year. Unfortunately, they're in the minority, but that doesn't diminish their happiness with each other one iota. I'm glad for them.

 

(BTW, as far as I know, neither of them has ever been compelled to go outside their marriage for sex, mutually-consensual or otherwise. Just thought you'd like to know...)

 

I'm sure that Mrs Spoomonkey is everything you've described, and more. But don't assume that everybody who isn't married to her, or someone like her, is unhappy.

[intuition897 2,179]

JnCC said:

 

"If you're so happy in your marriage, why do you spend a considerable portion of your free time seeking others? Who are you trying to convince...me, or yourself?"

 

Even though you are playing devil's advocate, the fact that you asked this at all indicates that you think this is a valid point (to some degree), does it not?

 

DO you believe that this is the swinger's underlying motivation, and that we are all just rationalizing that we do it out of love for one another? Do you believe that doing it for anything other than sex is a fairy tale? I really am curious...

[VegasLee 1,486]

JnCC said:

"If you're so happy in your marriage, why do you spend a considerable portion of your free time seeking others? Who are you trying to convince...me, or yourself?"

There are millions of people in the world that are not swingers. Most people can NOT be swingers by the true sense of the word. "Recreational Sex".

 

Those millions bowl, fish, hunt, play cards, watch movies, camp, hike and hundreds of other things. Hell, I even do some of those.

 

Recreational Sex is what I do and is my lifestyle. It is NOT for everyone and I would never pretend to think it was. Honestly, there is many on this board that it is not for but they wish to either give it a try or are looking to fix something that is broken by swinging. That NEVER works. I am not the all knowing but after Thirty years of LIVING a certain lifestyle I do have a clue. Seeing 800 to 1000 people a week at a club, speaking and going to conventions has also given me some insight into this Lifestyle.

 

I don't have to convince anyone about what I do. It is my life and as long as what I am doing is not hurting anyone else then I shall live it the way I have all my life and have a great life because of it. The people that Matter in MY LIFE are happy with me as I am. That is ALL that counts.

 

What I do is not very everyone and I don't expect anyone else to live the life I do. It works for Us/Me.

 

Why do people spend 1000's of dollars and 1000's of hours playing Golf when most of them really are not that good at it? Many that play golf also let it get in the way of their families and relationships!

[Spoomonkey 421]

JnCC said:

"If you're so happy in your marriage, why do you spend a considerable portion of your free time seeking others? Who are you trying to convince...me, or yourself?"

The short answer is simple - this question reflects a sad understanding of the lifestyle and zero conception of the best it has to offer... Trying to explain why my marriage is the way it is to you would be like trying to explain color to a blind man...

 

JnCC said:

Why do you assume that "life gave me so many damn lemons?"

Easy assumption based on the tone of your "honest" statements. I agree with you 100% - if those are the statements you'd have to make, your in a dysfunctional relationship and lying may be a great idea at that point. Heck, why not? After all, a person who has allowed his marriage to get to the point where their only "honest" opinions are negative and mean-spirited probably lost the plot a long time ago...

 

JnCC said:

I'm not "bitter." I prefer to think of myself as "skeptical."

I prefer to think of myself as blue, but - like you - my true colors are pretty obvious, are they not?

 

JnCC said:

I'm sure that Mrs Spoomonkey is everything you've described, and more. But don't assume that everybody who isn't married to her, or someone like her, is unhappy.

I would never assume that people needed to be married to Mrs Spoo or a woman like her to be happy. In fact, I could point to two marriages on this board (if we knew more people, I'm sure I'd have more examples) that I know personally are every bit as deep and incredible as the one I have. The women are not one bit like Mrs Spoo.

 

What I DO see in common is many of the same basic philosophies about respect, communication, trust, etc.

 

I will say, however, that having a woman like Mrs Spoo sure doesn't hurt any