What % of the population swings?

I'm still trying to reconcile...trying to make it okay (in my head) that I do this (swinging)... and that it's somehow normal. Maybe it's first-time jitters...or maybe it's because society has brainwashed me since birth to believe that sex is somehow wrong or bad or dirty? (Hmm...I like that dirty idea hehehehe)

To the point: Does anyone have an idea what percentage of the us population is involved in swinging in any given year?

Meggy, I wondered about the normalcy issue at first too. I always giggled when I said the words "swinger" and "lifestyle". I couldn't believe I could possibly apply them to me and my partner.

For me, I just needed more time. More time to learn who swingers were, and how and why partner sharing became a hobby or pastime.

My first time at our local club, I knew I belonged. We met a lovely couple who had been in the lifestyle for quite a long time. It was obvious that they were deeply connected to each other and in love. They, like us, were in touch with their sexuality and enjoyed exploring it, especially with other couples who were also in love.

Take some more time, and you'll see, because it does seem obvious that you're curious.

Sorry I have no idea what % of the population swings. I personally think it is higher than what the average (non-swingers) person thinks, but I would doubt that swinging would be considered normal by most.

We are not swingers at this time, we are just taking our time getting educated on the lifestyle and what to expect if we ever take the step. We are somewhat in your shoes (pre-swingers), but we are not going to let the main stream dictate what we should or should not do with our sex life or our marriage.

I'm still trying to reconcile...trying to make it okay (in my head) that I do this (swinging)... and that it's somehow normal. Maybe it's first-time jitters...or maybe it's because society has brainwashed me since birth to believe that sex is somehow wrong or bad or dirty? (Hmm...I like that dirty idea hehehehe)

I wouldn't base it on what is normal and what isn't normal. To me it's more normal and acceptable to have an affair behind your spouse's back than to swing. Just look around at your own family and friends, if they are like mine many of them are in miserable relationships, I would prefer to be in an abnormal relationship. I would much rather go against the gain and do what my wife and I feel comfortable with.

Good luck!

To the point: Does anyone have an idea what percentage of the us population is involved in swinging in any given year?

100% of the cool people!

Great answer Mr. Spoo!

Well, I don't know about the national average, but if I do an informal sampling of couples profiles between the ages of 18 and 99 on two swinger's sites I come up with an average of 1413 couples in Utah swing. Now, of course, many of these profiles may be outdated or they were just testing the water, so there is a margin of error in this method.

Take Utah's population in 2005 and subtract the the percentage of the population below 18 years of age (31%) and then take that into the number of swinging couples X 2 (2 people per couple ) I come up with about 0.2% of Utah's population is swingers or profess to be or are thinking of being.

Not a lot of us here.

Now I recall reading in a sex survey a while back that something like 40% of the respondents listed a threesome as their number one fantasy and as many as 20% have actually done it. But, as you can see, very few are actually are actively seeking it or would classify themselves a "swingers" even though what they are doing is "swinging" by any measure of the term. So the percentage is probably much higher then 0.2%.

Damn, why did I do this?

WesternSwing,

I'd suggest you to start a poll here asking "how many of you people are swingers?". I am pretty sure the figures would resemble the ones given by Spoo.

I thought of that... then the margin for error would be 0%.

To the point: Does anyone have an idea what percentage of the us population is involved in swinging in any given year?

The question really is, and I should have said this in my last post: why are you justifying whether or not you should do something based on how many others do it? I wonder what percentage of the population are base jumpers. I'm sure they don't worry that I don't do it.

The point is, don't let others tell you what is right for you. Only you can make that decision for yourself. If it makes you happy and doesn't hurt anyone else... then go for it.

There is no real way to estimate what percentage of the population are swingers as it is a mostly hidden way of interacting. Can't imagine somewhere doing a study and calling random households asking whether or not they swing??!! Even swingers are likely to answer no...

Gotta agree with Spoo though definately 100% of the cool people

I'll bet that of couples who've been married for more than ten years that at least 90% have at least one of the spouses who've thought about it. Of these, probably 75% of the spouses are the husband and the other 25% the wife.

And, of couples that have been married a long time I'll bet that over 75% have thought about it together.

I'd go so far as to say that almost 50% of these couples would participate in some form of swinging given the perfect situation and other people.

Of these long term married couples I'd guess that at least 25% have experimented with swinging, of some fashion, at least once.

OK, just my opinion. But in reality we humans are not monagomous creatures. We, like eagles, do tend to make life long committments with a partner, but also like eagles we feel the need for sexual adventure with others.

I don't know the stats but here is how I feel about it.

I think 75% of the population thinks about it...

Of those, 50% mention it...

Of those, 50% can talk about it (this is where we fit in as a couple)

25% of the (couples like us) enjoy what we do, and feel pretty normal about it. It is who we are...and we share that with some really cool people

The actual stats would be interesting if there was a foolproof way to get them, but seeing as how it's such an underground activity, and how some people who have sex with others are either cheating on a spouse (which, to me, disqualifies them), or are actually vanilla and have to get drunk at an office party to do it, or do it once out of curiosity...the definition is difficult to put your finger on because it deals with something so close to home for everyone, and how you react to it sways the question. I don't know how to describe it.

I like Spoo's answer. Frankly m'dear, I don't give a shit how many people think I'm abnormal for thinking and feeling the way I do. I think they're all crazy for not being able to grasp how great this is. Then again, I do have one concern...

I've heard the one way to know you're crazy is when you think the rest of the world is insane...and you're the only one left holding all your marbles. Luckily I found this board full of crazy wackos just like me!

I wonder how much money I can get from the government to do research on this very topic.

I can travel the country going from swing club to swing club, party to party, meet great people and have mind blowing sexxx. All full funded

I have heard of worse research projects that got funded.

I once saw a statistic that almost 2% of all Americans consider themselves swingers. Whether this was an accurate poll is anyone's guess.

I think Kinsey had 2% as swingers, but how accurate that is I don't know.

While I don't think the actual numbers are quite as high as Mike and Jan, I do think the number of people who WANT to swing is very high, perhaps even a majority, but other factors keep it from happening. I think the number one fear would be bringing it up with the spouse due to being afraid of their reaction. Somewhere out there, we have couples who both want to swing, and are both afraid to bring it up with each other. We all say communication is key to successful swinging, and it is, but its even more key before you swing.

Swinging is just an extention of our genes that want multiple matings. We are satisfying an urge thats evolved over eons and is part of our survival as a species. The reason sex is what sex is, is to create more and different humans, there is no reason to think the desire to swing is any different. Most cultures do not support this anymore (most not all) but it doesn't mean we can turn off the urges. Some channel this into a negative thing with cheating, we turn the same urges into a possitive thing with swinging.

Really I feel SORRY for non swingers, I think they are missing out of a part of living, the same way I feel sorry for the 40 year old spinster.

Of course you also have the issue of just what "swinging" is. In conducting the research you'd have to carefully define the term and make sure your audience understands that definition......

Not to stir up old arguements... For example, is a threesome with a married couple and a single person really swinging?

"Blumstein and Schwartz (1983, cited in Rubin & Adams, 1986) noted that of 3,574 married couples in their sample, 15-28% had "an understanding that allows nonmonogamy under some circumstances. The percentages are higher among cohabitating couples (28%), lesbian couples (29%) and gay male couples (65%)" (p. 312). "

Can't speak for the sample size and accuracy of the data, it comes from a study paper presented at the 8th Annual Diversity Conference from in 1999. As many know, you can twist and turn number to get what you want.

I think the number might be right in that "under some circumstances", it appears to be ok. I have seen couples where I never figured they would bite at the lifestyle, but did when they were placed in a situation that fostered it; they did!

I believe more than you think swing. Maybe by other names, such as "on the low", "open relationships", or "friends with benefits". Maybe not 100%, but I do believe that about 70% of the population swings.

70 % of the population of where?

Even if I give the most liberal interpretation of swinging possible and include cheaters, dating singles and FWB singles, their is no way that it is anywhere near 70% in our area. In fact I would be surprised if 70% of the US population even has sex regularly (for this discussion I will define regularly as more than once a year and not include masturbation).

I think, as others have said here, that many may have the occasional threesome or open relationship situation, but never really consider themselves "swingers". The fist couple we ever swung with goes to swinger parties, swaps with couples, has threesomes, but you won't find a profile on any swinger site for them. There are probably many, many more like them out there.

Well, I think the 15-28% range maybe right or close based on some other data. Line where you live, the general sample size of the population, and it's make up. In more "refined" areas like San Fran you could run into the 28% range...in the good old bible belt...where I current live...until 1100AM today...then it full time Texas...15% might be pushing it.

I think Kinsey had 2% as swingers, but how accurate that is I don't know.

2% sounds extremely high - but possible if you apply the broadest definition of swinging.

Swingers are so discreet by nature, I don't know if anyone would really get a good tally on the percentage.

2% sounds extremely high - but possible if you apply the broadest definition of swinging.

I'm not sure what definition they used, but I think it is possible. A lot of the newbie swingers we talked to seemed to have had some soft swing experiance with close friends which is what made them look for more active swinging.

I do think the desire to swing is very high out there based on comments I hear.

My typical response is 10%. At some point, from some source, I recall hearing that 10% of the population is homosexual. When I look back to certain times in my life, I'd say 5-10% of the people I knew then I suspected or wouldn't be surprised if they were homosexual. Tia's number of 70% seems to include non-swinging behaviour such as cheating, and I'd believe 70% are either swingers or have cheated on their partner, or have had one non-traditional encounter (spontaneous 3some, drunken public sex, party games, etc.).

Let me create a few definitions. Swinging: Sexual relations involving one committed male-female couple and at least one other participant. Swinger: one who has experienced swinging and would willing experience it again. Using my own definitions and absolutely no data, 10% might be somewhat close.

Of course Spoo knows the proper way to solve this Gordian knot.

When In doubt, do some research. I found the following article:

http://www.ejhs.org/volume3/swing/body.htm

The following is an excerpt:

"Estimates of the size of the swinging population vary widely. Research provided by North American Swing Club Association (NASCA) (McGinley, 1995) found that 15% of couples in the U.S. have at some point incorporated swinging into their marriage. More conservative estimates are offered by studies which are unrelated to NASCA. Hunt (1975) and Weiss (1983) estimate that two to four percent of married couples have engaged in swinging at least on an occasional basis. Bartell (1971) found the figure to be one percent and Cole and Spaniard (1974) found, based on a small college community sample, that 1.7 percent had experienced swinging at least once."

When In doubt, do some research. I found the following

The problem isn't that there is no research, but that most of the research is flawed and unreliable.

Well, I feel that the research isn't necessarily flawed, but rather that the respondents in the research are flawed. Admit it, some couples are going to have a hard time admitting to participating in the lifestyle even in an anonymous research program. And again, how do you define a swinger? Is someone that has participated at some point in their life in a non-monogamous sexual encounter a swinger (such as a 3-sum)? Hoiw about a married, but actively bisexual woman? If she has a girlfriend, does that make her a swinger? Or rather, are you going to define it narrowly it someone that participates on a regular basis at lifestyle events. In today's online swinging world, there are a lot of people that would characterize themselves as swingers that I would never call a swinger. A single guy looking for couples online? How about a married guy playing alone? OK, so if you are going to limit it to couples, how about a couple made up of individuals where one or both are married, but not to each other but they swing as a couple. We've met a few of those over the years. See what I mean?

Any research projects begins with defining the scope and definitions to be used for the study. As long as the definition of what is a swinger is so nebulous, you are going to have a pretty wide spread in your results. The other problem with these sorts of studies is the sample used. Ideally, a sample is representative of the population being studied. That's where a lot of problems come in. For example, how may bible tumpers are going to respond to a survey about "kinky" sexual practices? The other problem is time frame used. We all know there is a high drop out rate in swinging. Many couples give it a try and for very reasons don't survive. So, does your definition include on people active in the lifestyle or someone that was simply involved in the lifestyle at one point in their lives. Based on our experience, the 1.5-2% numbers that are usually reported by these studies seem reasonable for active lifestyle participants.

I agree with SA_cpl and others who have said that research in this area is pretty much bound to be flawed, both because of the degree of stigmatization of swinging behaviors, and therefore the reluctance of respondents in even anonymous surveys to self-identify, and because of the lack of clear definition even in the lifestyle of what is swinging. For example, if a couple has a threesome with a married person who is cheating on their spouse, you would probably say the couple is swinging, but would you say the same of the married person, or that they are just cheating in a less conventional way?

I actually tried to do research on this topic while I was still in university doing my sociology degree, as well as some since, and found numbers that varied widely, and none that seemed particularly reliable (these are off the top of my head, mind you, but it is a subject of some interest to me!). Anywhere from

By contrast, studies seem to pretty consistently find the prevalence of extramarital sexual affairs as about 70% of married males at some time while married, and 50%+ of women; and many of the studies suggest the actual number of women is probably higher, but that women are more reluctant to admit infidelity because it is still more stigmatized for women, or they carry more guilt about it. All of which suggests the number of people who could be candidates for swinging is much higher than the actual number

Or as Mrs. gtj-fun said when she strolled by and I told her I was replying to a thread about the percentage of swingers, "Not as many as there damn-well should be!"

It is interesting to think ...what the % of population is. I would have no idea and would be just guessing. But what I always find interesting is how many just you average joe types are swingers. I mean if you really just look around a party or club you see all types, just as if you were in a supermarket shopping.

When you first get into it you wonder how you will look or feel in comparison to everyone and you find out that a large cross section of the population is in the lifestyle. I think we are a pretty diverse group!

It is interesting to think ...what the % of population is. I would have no idea and would be just guessing. But what I always find interesting is how many just you average joe types are swingers. I mean if you really just look around a party or club you see all types, just as if you were in a supermarket shopping.

 

When you first get into it you wonder how you will look or feel in comparison to everyone and you find out that a large cross section of the population is in the lifestyle. I think we are a pretty diverse group!

One of the things that a lot of studies have tended to identify as characteristic of swingers is that they (we!) tend to be middle-to-upper middle class socio-economically. Meaning that besides higher than average income, we typically have college or university education and are likely to be professionals of some sort - doctors, teachers, managers, accountants, police, various self-employed or small business owners, are the some of the ones I recall being specifically cited as common. The higher than average education and incomes sort of corresponds to my own collective impression of the swingers I've met or communicated with over the years. In turn, I think this makes sense, as to make swinging work, better than average communication skills are needed, which would tend to correlate with higher education and/or success levels in life.

And we probably are collectively better looking than average, since I know lots of studies unrelated to swinging have tended to correlate attractiveness with higher education and socio-economic status as well!

I mean if you really just look around a party or club you see all types, just as if you were in a supermarket shopping.

I have seriously looked around at the grocery store and wondered which ones were and which ones weren't.

Glad I'm not the only one Mr & Mrs. I remember after our first encounter, looking around at the grocery store first thinking...."ohhhh do you think they know"....then thinking hmmmm "wonder if they are swingers".

Nor did it say how they got that estimate.

The show that aired last night on WE about swingers estimated that 1.5 million American couples "swing regularly". The did not mention where that number came from or what "swing regularly" means.

That is about 1/2% of the population. I am guessing they are probably a wee bit off...

PS - though, having met many people, I would put about 1/2% of those as being cool... So I guess that does make sense

I don't know the stats but here is how I feel about it.

 

I think 75% of the population thinks about it...

 

Of those, 50% mention it...

 

Of those, 50% can talk about it (this is where we fit in as a couple)

 

25% of the (couples like us) enjoy what we do, and feel pretty normal about it. It is who we are...and we share that with some really cool people

If I did my math right, that comes out to 4.6% of couples are swingers and are happy with it. I suspect that isn't too far off the mark.

Certainly it depends on how you define swinger. For many, it’s about couples. The Kinsie Institute says about 4% of the couples. the Electronic Journal of Human Sexuality from 2000. They said about 4% of couples swing while a NASCA (North American Swing Club Association) report from 1996 stated 15% of couples had experienced swinging. So, there it’s swingers vs those who have had a swinging experience. Add in singles and the percentage goes up, obviously.

You make sense, Chico. I'll only count people who get down and dirty with others, I figure the 4% figure is close to accurate.

If you include the people who go to swing clubs but don't have sex with others, just look, or the guys who wish their wife was a hotwife, the figure goes up. But I don't include them. You don't get to be a golfer by having a set of golf clubs in the closet and never taking them out on the course.

There are couples who are on the fringes. My wife and I have had friends confide in one of us how he/she had an affair with permission and encouragement of the spouse, lasting from weeks to over a year. Only one of the couples where both spouses did it. It seems like people accept what they see as traditional adultery more easily than swinging.

It seems like people accept what they see as traditional adultery more easily than swinging.

I totally agree...and totally don't understand it, but no use denying it, it's a fact.

There's also the "I can live with what he/she does as long as I don't have to know about it" group. When I said my 4.6% number was about right, I wasn't including them, but I guess one could argue they should be included. There is knowledge and at a minimum unspoken consent there, although that's tempered by less than full agreement and active participation with the whole concept too.

I totally agree...and totally don't understand it, but no use denying it, it's a fact.

 

There's also the "I can live with what he/she does as long as I don't have to know about it" group..

"My sister's been married to the same guy for 16 years - and she cheats. Her husband knows she cheats because she "tries" to hide it, but he always finds out about it. It follows a pattern: she finds some guy to whom she is attracted, she sends off signals to him that she is available, they start an affair, her husband "finds out" (she leaves clues), they fight, they fuck, she promises it won't happen again and breaks it off with her lover (fuck buddy or whatever). After a while she gets bored, so rinse and repeat.

My sister's done this around a dozen times, and at first I thought that she was the classic marital cheater. And maybe she was in the beginning, but as time goes on I think this is a mutual game. I've seen them together after he finds out about her getting some on the side and they are more lovey-dovey, go out more, and leave the kids at our parents and go on a short vacations together. As far as my sister knows, and she's sensitive to these things, he has never cheated on her. (My sister's philosophy is to let your husband bang you anytime he wants and then demand more so there's nothing left for anyone else.) The only thing that makes me feel that this isn't the normal hotwife (or whatever you want to call it) situation is that their fights seem to be real. I've seen it get physical and he calls her a "dirty whore" and the like."

And there there is the "I don't approve, but tell me all about it group," like my sister. As posted previously:

"My sister's been married to the same guy for 16 years - and she cheats. Her husband knows she cheats because she "tries" to hide it, but he always finds out about it. It follows a pattern: she finds some guy to whom she is attracted, she sends off signals to him that she is available, they start an affair, her husband "finds out" (she leaves clues), they fight, they fuck, she promises it won't happen again and breaks it off with her lover (fuck buddy or whatever). After a while she gets bored, so rinse and repeat.

 

My sister's done this around a dozen times, and at first I thought that she was the classic marital cheater. And maybe she was in the beginning, but as time goes on I think this is a mutual game. I've seen them together after he finds out about her getting some on the side and they are more lovey-dovey, go out more, and leave the kids at our parents and go on a short vacations together. As far as my sister knows, and she's sensitive to these things, he has never cheated on her. (My sister's philosophy is to let your husband bang you anytime he wants and then demand more so there's nothing left for anyone else.) The only thing that makes me feel that this isn't the normal hotwife (or whatever you want to call it) situation is that their fights seem to be real. I've seen it get physical and he calls her a "dirty whore" and the like."

I was just starting to write a post about this in another thread. The traditional stigma against promiscuity is so strong that a lot of people are more outraged by the idea that someone would be open about something they believe is inherently "wrong" than by the act itself, because the opinions of the participants don't actually matter.

"Yes, my wife got drunk and blew my brother, but she's a good person who had the decency to lie about it!"

A lot of successful single guys figure out pretty quickly that their reputation for keeping their mouth shut is a big predictor of women lining up for casual sex, and this is why.

I was beginning to put together a matrix of sexual relationships in my head - rows: monogamous, swinging, cheating..., columns: tells ahead of time, gets permission ahead of time, tells afterwards, gives details..., layers (or aisles): soft, hard, bareback..., fourth dimension: mutual or one-way (cuckolding, cuckqueening), lovers or fuck buddies, one or multiple...

But it became too complicated and I quit. Anyone up to the task of reducing it all to a series of orthogonal check boxes?

I was beginning to put together a matrix of sexual relationships in my head - rows: monogamous, swinging, cheating..., columns: tells ahead of time, gets permission ahead of time, tells afterwards, gives details..., layers (or aisles): soft, hard, bareback..., fourth dimension: mutual or one-way (cuckolding, cuckqueening), lovers or fuck buddies, one or multiple...

 

But it became too complicated and I quit. Anyone up to the task of reducing it all to a series of orthogonal check boxes?

I get where you're going but it's too complicated for my lack-of-sleep-addled-brain.

I've seen it time and time again on this forum, and have first hand experience in real life. People are far, far more upset at the idea that a married person would be playing with encouragement and permission than they are with cheating. It's utterly illogical, but it is what it is.

Petra, it's very sad about your sister. I'm curious, and I hope you don't mind my asking, does your father know about her escapades and what is his acceptance of her?

To bring my earlier answer back to the point of the thread, I think the "not-swinging" that goes on in vanilla couples has grown dramatically and is rarely captured in data.

Women who have approved flings with other women, men who pick up escorts with their wives because "it's Vegas", etc., but those people would never identify themselves as swingers. The list of sexual circumstances that people find reasons to exclude is long.

4.6% might accurately describes the number of regular swingers, but the percentage of people who try concensual non-monogamy is probably several times higher. The remaining stigma of "being a swinger" might keep people out of clubs, but certainly doesn't stop them from arranging group sex on Tinder. We've had sixways and I still don't think Mrs. E would ever tick that box on a questionnaire.

Swing and lifestyle took some getting used to for us. Swinger didn't sit well (it does now) and lifestyle, as a friend LS couple explained isn't accurate about their hobby. Now, about 15 years into our current epoch (we each had some experiences much earlier), the two terms are routine and synonymous for us. In writing, we often abbreviate to LS.

So counting who participates maybe misses people who've tried a house party or messing around with friends - until that day when they're both thinking about that next couple or party or meet and greet. 'Hope that it's really more than about 5% ? That means that 19 out of 20 are missing something really engaging.

Where are people getting the "5% of the population" number?

That puts it at about 34 people in our town -- 32 people who aren't us, or 16 other potential couples… Actually, that sounds about right. Sadly, we've contacted that many nearby on SLS, and most are 'not looking for new couples', or we're outside their age-range, or Something equally frustrating. *argh!*

The population of the Pittsburgh area is 1.233 million. Take away half of them as being too young or old, and you get 611,500. 5% of that is 30,575. That's a lot of swingers!

SJBluebirds and Adamgunn, we've done similar arithmetic, with the same outcomes. Conclusion: there's a whole lot of dalliance out there, along with some great dinner parties and salons, or that data are way off. Guess which explanation we prefer?

Cheers