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SnowwwWhite

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SnowwwWhite last won the day on June 16 2008

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About SnowwwWhite

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  • Birthday 01/15/1977

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  1. It would be great if it took "200 fucks" to transmit HIV. But that's not the reality. It's worth reading about porn star Darren James' experience and how he contracted the disease from one encounter on set in Brazil and subsequently transmitted the virus to three female actresses during a film a few weeks later. One of the women he infected had only been in the industry for one month when they filmed together. Her next HIV test came up positive. Porn Industry Hit With 16 Confirmed HIV Cases - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com Porn star recalls nightmare of testing HIV positive - Los Angeles Times Maybe this is a reach, but wouldn't it make sense that swingers are at a greater risk than porn stars to be exposed to STDs? Think about it... porn stars are tested every 30 days and cannot perform if they haven't tested negative in the previous 30 days. Swingers, however, are on the honor system and don't have to be accountable to anyone. Both groups are known to have multiple sexual partners in a somewhat closed loop, with the risk supposedly coming from outside the loop. We all know there are risks in swinging but it's frustrating to see people throw out "facts and figures" in an effort to justify unsafe sex or to minimize the significance of infections. And let's be real. Herpes is not "normal" or just like the flu. Just because supposedly 58% of people have it doesn't mean "everyone" has it. This is what scares me about swinging. People who want to play even though they have a disease and make a decision about what they think is an acceptable risk for others. With that kind of thinking, yes, everyone eventually will have Herpes. Thanks. Call me naive, but I always assumed swingers were a safer risk because they realize that bringing an infection into the group compromises the lifestyle and hurts innocent people. But reading comments that say it takes "200 fucks" to get HIV and that Herpes is no big deal makes me wonder if there is an unspoken assumption in the swinging world that we're all going to end up with an STD so why bother protecting yourself or anyone else. Most everyone in the forums claims to not have an STD and "never caught one" but then there's a lot of talk of barebacking and downplaying of Herpes. The only people I can imagine don't think Herpes is a big deal is someone who already has it... and doesn't want uninfected people to care if they get it or not. I guess I always assumed married spouses want to protect each other and their family from the fallout of disease and would play as safe as possible. But some of the comments I've been reading have really made me wonder if there's an unspoken assumption that all swingers probably have some form of Herpes and if not, we're eventually going to get it. Is it just a given that by participating in the swinging world, swingers are accepting that they will eventually get Herpes... and that it's okay to pass it along without much guilt? My partner and I have been taking it slowly, soft swapping several times with other newbies until we get comfortable. It's scary to think there might be an STD "secret code" that long-time swingers know about... and the rest of us will eventually find out by surprise. Sorry if this post is a downer... just looking for the truth from experienced people who would know!
  2. Having a high sex drive does not make someone a "slut." There's more to a "slut" than just liking sex. The English language needs a word to describe a person who loves sex and has it a lot. That word is nymphomaniac. The English language also needs a word to describe a person who selfishly has sex at the expense of their own honesty and integrity, at the expense of their children and relationships, at the expense of the unwitting partners of the people they're having sex with, as well as a disregard for the health of themselves and their partners, for nothing more than quick sexual gratification. It's a high sex drive with a refusal of accountability. The word for that is slut. As a community of people who celebrate honesty and sex, it should be reasonable that we look negatively on behaviors (and people) who have no true respect for sex, but who have only an uncontrolled and irresponsible desire (and intention) to get it any way they can, with anyone they want and at anyone's expense. To answer the original question, a swinger who isn't a slut would be someone who is conscientious of everyone who could be impacted by their sexual actions and makes an effort to respect their partners (and their partners' partners) and generally act responsibly when it comes to finding and having sex. A swinger who is a slut would be someone who thinks nothing of harming relationships, doesn't care about their health or anyone else's, and selfishly seeks sex without consideration for anyone and without any regard for consequences that they or others may pay for their actions. Yes, people misuse the word "slut" and throw it around a lot because they want to denigrate someone they're jealous of or because it's an easy insult. But we just have to remember, there's a reason for the word. There is a such thing as a slut. And yes, sexycouple1, there is a time when it is appropriate.
  3. This is a fantasy of mine. But being rather hygienic and selective I'd never consider it if it was just some random hole in a public place. (Which is the whole point, right?) That's the excitement of it in my opinion... the randomness, the not knowing who it is, the public place. If a club I trusted started one, it would be a lot more realistic of an option. Could I do it? Not sure. But it sounds like a great idea. And if I couldn't get up the guts to do it, watching would be incredible.
  4. The first time the issue was brought up, I was horrified! "I'm a GOOD GIRL, dammit!" All of these things flashed through my mind... wondering if he wanted to use me as a ticket so he could sleep with other women... wondering if he even cared about me at all if he could be thinking of seeing me with another man, or encouraging me to be promiscuous. But the good news is that despite not wanting to sleep around I'm very open-minded and eventually started researching the lifestyle. At first I researched it because I was confused... my boyfriend had brought up swinging so I thought I meant nothing to him. But he treated me pretty well and I knew he was being sexually faithful. So it puzzled me. So I started looking into swinging to see if maybe I was missing something. Once I did a little research I realized that there's a lot to it and just because someone wants you to swing with them doesn't mean they don't care about you. That was the hardest thing to come to terms with. But once I could accept that, everything changed. Eventually it was ME who orchestrated our first swinging encounter. I didn't even ask him, I just made it happen. I was thrilled to surprise him with my change of heart that had been developing without his knowledge. It turns out I just needed time to evaluate it. (And test things out a bit at strip clubs!) Swinging was so foreign to what I'd ever believed or experienced, but once I allowed myself to look at things rationally I could see the value in it.
  5. This is such a great thread. My experience might be interesting to newbies who are wondering about whether they should go the "friends first" route. Before I'd been in a swinging situation I expected that I would HAVE to get to know the couple and believe they were someone who I could potentially be friends with before even considering playing with them. I was so adamant about that! I couldn't envision myself in a "slutty one-night stand" and I guess I thought that getting to know someone would erase all the fear, guilt, and risk. That's how I've always been with vanilla sex/relationships so I figured that's the way I should keep behaving. But what I found was that I actually preferred no strings attached. We flitted around the whole evening, talking to lots of couples here and there. We didn't spend any time with the couple we ended up playing with... just had a chance to exchange a few sentences with them early in the night. Later on when they saw us playing with each other on a bed in the play area they asked to join in. It was as simple as that. We had a great time, the experience was intense. I don't remember their names and I'm glad we didn't exchange numbers. If I saw them again I'd immediately recognize them and be friendly with them, but I don't have any desire to hear their life story, meet them outside the club, or seek out a relationship. I think ultimately my desire to not have a poly relationship overcame my aversion for one-night stands. I guess I worry that having a protracted friendship opens the door for something more complicated, and that's not what I want.
  6. Maybe this whole tangent needs a clarification. Let's say a single girl seeks out and initiates contact with a couple who lives far away. It would be ridiculous for her to expect the couple to pay for anything. HOWEVER, alluding to my previous posts... yes, if it was me personally I would notice if they didn't offer. Not that I would expect it, but I would notice. But then again, who wouldn't notice? On the other hand, a single girl could easily play locally without much effort, so if a couple from let's say over an hour away initiates contact, I cannot imagine that they would not offer to pay for at least part of the travel or overnight expenses, knowing that the single girl probably has plenty of local options and doesn't need to travel to play. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe that's not how things work in the swinging world, but if they are seeking the single girl out and she's far away, it would seem odd that they wouldn't offer to pay. After all, a single girl doesn't have to search too far to play and would probably never have to leave her own backyard and still be able to find plenty of quality playmates. Ultimately, I do think there probably is an expectation... that the person who initiates contact will be a good host, particularly if they are initiating contact with someone far away. I'm not sure how this devolved into a debate. It was originally just an opinion about what a single female may be expecting when a couple wants to play with her. I feel like some responses were laced with hostility against anyone who would dare to swing and (gasp!) notice if a potential play partner isn't generous. I think I clarified that I was intending my opinion to be more about a single girl who is approached by a couple that lives far away. Not about a single girl who is seeking out partners and initiating long distance situations herself. Maybe I didn't clarify it at first because I thought the whole topic was about a couple seeking out the long-distance female. My response was coming from that perspective. If the question had been from a single female about how she should handle arrangements with a couple she invites to play, my response would have been totally different. Fortunately for me I honestly have no desire to swing that way... ie. to go out and seek casual sex as a single girl with ANYBODY. My interest in swinging is purely for the excitement it adds to a relationship with a husband or boyfriend, and our ability to share in each other's fantasies and maintain open communication. Which as I understand it, is a perfectly legitimate reason for swinging.
  7. I'm so glad you wrote that... maybe part of the reason I feel the way I do is that I'm from the South... I'm so used to Southern gentlemen that I've gotten spoiled. I know that not all men from the South have that generosity but I'd have to say from my experience many of them have an inherent level of class when dealing with females... whether they're friends or family, married or single, and I'm guessing "vanilla or swinger."
  8. I only have vanilla dating situations to go by, but I've never been on a date where I didn't offer to pay for at least part of it. And with my manners I doubt I would ever offend someone I just met or give the impression I expected any sort of compensation. I don't quite get your point, though. I'm just communicating a different perspective... from a single female point of view, someone who isn't exactly a seasoned swinger. I don't understand the animosity. Is it so anathema to want to treat the singles you meet with generosity? I'm really surprised at the number of people who don't like hearing this point of view. Sorry guys, but not everyone has years and years of swinging experience and has gotten used to meeting for a down-and-dirty rendezvous. If you plan to meet inexperienced single females you may need to consider where they're coming from before judging them. Some of them may be accustomed to being treated very well and will notice when they're not. Who wouldn't? I'm not about to apologize for having been treated well in life or expecting people I meet to have a minimal amount of class. I simply have an opinion. Whether it's popular or not doesn't give license for people to attack it and try to turn it into a single girl who's "expecting" to be paid for services rendered.
  9. I do agree with you, Julie... it's actually quite tasteless to "expect" someone to pay for you. I think maybe my opinion stated above is more based on a single girl who hasn't been in a lot of swinging situations and is just used to having men insist on paying for things. This is just a perspective from an inexperienced female... advice for the couples who will be coming across them. I would think it's possible there are plenty of single girls out there who are new to swinging and may feel the same way I do. It would be helpful for couples who encounter them to understand where they're coming from. It's a conditioned, culturally-natural response from a single girl who has always been treated chivalrously. For me, I would "notice" if a couple wasn't being generous, and based on my past experiences it actually would be a turn-off. I never expect someone to pay and am always prepared to pay for both me and my partner wherever we go if necessary. But I can't HELP but notice if someone doesn't offer because it has happened so rarely (or maybe never). This is the key! It's not about being an escort or a prostitute. It's just how I've always been treated so I would readily notice if someone treated me otherwise. So many past experiences have molded my perception of how people treat you when they value you and when they want to spend time with you. If I had started swinging or seeking casual encounters at an earlier age maybe I would see things differently and understand when a couple or a single guy wants to be with me but isn't naturally generous. We all have different backgrounds and different ways of seeing the world... This is just mine. Not right and not wrong. Just a perception based on experiences. It's not that inexperienced single girls are bad or want to take advantage. We've just had different experiences so we're conditioned to see things differently than an experienced swinger. I think this is one of the great values of these forums. You can have access to the thoughts and feelings of so many different kinds of people with so many varied backgrounds. And no one is necessarily right or wrong. They're just adding to the general knowledge base and the OP can read everything and decide what opinions have value for their specific situation.
  10. Just another way of looking at it here: First off to provide some perspective, I'm the kind of girl that has a hard time letting the guy I'm dating pay for too much... so this is where I'm coming from with my response. I don't believe in taking advantage. For some reason I feel like letting a guy pay all the time is showing him that you don't respect his finances (ie. his future) or that you don't value that he has to work hard for what he spends on you. At the same time I've had several boyfriends in the past get offended that I always wanted to donate towards our activities. Some men were brought up to be chivalrous, and part of their showing care and affection is tied up in "taking care of things" whether they have lots of money or not. With my most recent past boyfriend, I let him pay for more than I normally had in the past... but not everything. I was afraid to upset him by rejecting his generosity, and he was wonderfully generous. But it's just not in my nature to let a guy go broke taking us places. A relationship should be a team effort, both emotionally and financially. With that said, I think I'd be offended if I was (hypothetically) the single girl playing with a couple and they didn't offer to be generous. Not that they "owe" the girl they play with, but classy people in general understand the unspoken wealth hierarchy. A couple is higher on the scale than a single girl. Like for an example, in business... it's understood that if you're the supervisor going to lunch with a subordinate you always pay. If you're taking out your team for drinks, you either put it on your own credit card or you put it on the company card. I can't debate this with anyone in logical terms because it's not a logical practice. But there is something to be said for people who kindly and willingly pick up a tab in a social setting even though there's no tangible obligation. It says something about their level of class and their upbringing. As a girl with many positive dating experiences to draw on, I'd much prefer to spend my time with people who are generous and classy vs. those who are tight, petty, and worried about "paying for sex." I've read a dozen times in the forums that swinging isn't a cheap endeavor. So I would naturally assume people looking to swing in personal ads aren't expecting to get to do it on the cheap. In a way, it's almost like they need to assure their potential partners that they're NOT cheap. (Just like a guy going out on a date would.) Put yourself in the single girl's shoes... there are hundreds of couples (and single guys!) wanting you. If you come across a couple that doesn't try to "court" you, it could make you feel that they think you're cheap and undesirable or "below them"... or that you have no other options. But if you went out on a date with a guy who didn't offer to pay for dinner, wouldn't you feel the same way? Like he didn't value the opportunity to spend time with you? How many confident, sexy girls would put up with that? I'm not saying it's fair, but it's the way it is. Couples who make it clear they value the girl and want to make sure she's comfortable are communicating in a subtle way that they appreciate her and value her time. It will only add to her respect for them and ultimately her attraction to them. (ie. These are probably going to be classy people!) This is what confident, desirable, single girls expect from a man so why would it be a different standard for a couple? My only alternate thought is that a couple that realizes they themselves are sexy and may be used to being sought after in club or house party situations may be stuck on themselves and feel they're doing a favor to the girl by letting her play with them. That doesn't sound any better to me than a stuck up guy who thinks he's god's gift to women... and treats them like they should be groveling just to be with him. A couple that doesn't court a single girl with generosity and respect could easily be coming across the same way. At least to the single girls who have been treated well in the past and know what "class" looks like.
  11. You seem to have your head on straight and are trying to deal with the most important part of this: your relationship with your husband. It's great to hear that you're in counseling with him. I wish you the best of luck. It sounds to me that the other woman doesn't want to talk about it because she's ashamed of what she tried to do to you and how she betrayed your trust. She and her husband want you to move past it so they don't have to deal with it. Sorry, but there are consequences and you shouldn't be the only one paying them. Respectfully, I still don't understand how you can see these people and have them in your life (and call them "family") knowing what happened between her and your husband. I know in this world it's politically correct to always have everything be "for the children," but as a former child myself I had best friends come and go in and out of my life due to one or both of our parents moving, divorcing, or whatever. Losing close friends is part of life and while it was sad it wasn't permanently traumatizing. Food for thought. What WOULD have been traumatizing would be to find out my best friend's parent tried to break up my mom and dad's marriage... or to find out my best friend's mom (who I see so often and probably like), is actually a two-faced, dishonest, manipulative bitch who tried to split my parents up. Imagine if your children ever found that out... imagine how impressionable they are and how that would damage their trust in people... and how they would feel betrayed that you allowed them to continue bonding with this woman. At least just consider that perspective, regardless of what you do. Consider for your children's sake that while childhood friendships are meaningful, a stable family and loving father is 100x more valuable... and impossible to replace once lost. You guys have a lot at stake and it's up to you and your husband to do the wisest thing... not to protect everyone's feelings right now, but to protect your family's FUTURE.
  12. Betrayal is just a really sensitive issue for me. I would take a bullet for the people I love. So when they betray it brings on a whole range of pain, mistrust, regret, and self-reprisal. It hurts immensely to realize someone you care for would sooner stab you in the back than have to cross the street. Seeing them over and over would bring the pain on again and again. I just know for myself that it's not so much "running away from a problem," as much as it is cutting off the source of potential drama. Obviously it would be ludicrous to run away over something benign, or when it's possible to avoid the source of betrayal with minor adjustments.
  13. Admittedly moving away may be a bit extreme. I guess if it was me in that situation, I personally wouldn't want to ever have to see a woman again who seduced my husband. If I was forced to be in the same circles and see her at the same grocery store or whatever, I'd be horrified. It would be crippling to me. This was just my personal take on that situation. I don't have a husband or kids but it's how I imagined I'd feel. Maybe the OP doesn't feel as strongly against this woman (as I imagine it) and it's all manageable without putting distance between you. But for me, I would have had a really hard time knowing I could see this person at any time. It would be paralyzing to me... and I would be better off knowing I never had to see her again and there would be no chance of accidental meetings.
  14. You can do whatever you choose, so take my advice as such. But I'm a protective and possessive person and I believe in the primary relationship as the center of all activities. Get out. Get out. Get out. (Of this swinging scenario) If it was me, I'd go so far as to relocate and never have contact with these people again. This woman cannot be trusted, and as another poster mentioned you need to question how your husband could let this sort of thing happen. The good news is that by confessing to you and exhibiting guilt and honesty, he does love you and wants to protect what you have. I'd be appalled that she felt he "betrayed" her... no doubt she was trying to build a little secret fortress of love between her and him. Sounds like she seduced and manipulated him... and once he had a chance to recover from the "spell" he came right back to you. Don't risk it again! His admission is a cry for help of sorts... letting you know that he is weak and will succumb to a woman who uses her powers to persuade him. I don't agree with people who say to stay away from that couple for "awhile." DO NOT TRUST THIS WOMAN WITH ANYTHING. Here's my suggestions: 1) Move away. Use this as an impetus for you and your husband to better your life in a new city. It will be exciting and intensify your bond with him. 2) If you just cannot move, find a way to remove yourself from this couple's life... move across town, relocate your kids to another school, join a different church, don't go to the same clubs, restaurants, malls, etc. Stay away from this toxic woman. And certainly rescind their "godparent" status. I know I'm being harsh, but nothing good can come from this relationship. She wanted your husband and seduced you guys into a situation where she could test her desirability against you. I'm curious to know what your decision is.
  15. I was very interested in sex and had tons of boyfriends throughout jr. high and high school, but I never had sex (even oral sex) with anyone until I was in college. We were engaged and living together before I finally gave in. I was 20. A very late start for someone who was as highly sexualized and acutely aware of sexual behavior as I was. I guess I more or less lived vicariously through my friends, who were always the "wild" girls. My best friend in 7th grade got caught having sex in her bedroom by her Dad (her first time, no less), and my best friend in 8th grade got married to a 24 year-old when she was 14. Yes, with her parents' permission. (Hey it was the South!) My best friend from 9th grade had three kids from different men by the time she was 23. Oh yeah, I almost forgot... my best friend from 6th grade was murdered when she was in her 20's as a result of a lesbian love triangle. (There's actually a book about it). I guess you could say I know how to pick them. But life has always been interesting. I should have realized when I was in my teens and had all the bad girls as best friends that there was something going on there. Maybe a little bit of repression??? Being a preacher's kid will do that to you I guess. I just THOUGHT I was the good girl.
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