BiFriend

J Bunny et al, Well, I don't think *anyone* is suggesting people do things they don't want to do -- we certainly wouldn't have a very good time in swinging if people did THAT! It would also be against the rules. Please note that I've never used the word "repressed" to describe anyone's sexuality... Please also note that I've never stated anyone's sexuality is either "good" or "bad" or "better than" anything... Speaking only from my own experiences around bisexuality, it's almost an anti-climax to say at this point: it's *SO* not a big deal! It's so not the dreaded things I might have feared at one time, nor is it all the hottest and greatest either. I guess you could say this is no different from anything else we might discover in swinging, afterall. Hope this helps, -- P.T.

MichiganCouple, et. al, Well said.... We Men have been so oppressed by a society that makes us believe that the only way to relate to each other is through competition, fighting, war, and to focus on material and financial gain alone. While competition and material things have their merits, I'm afraid they will NEVER give us the happiness we seek, and eventually we become pretty unhappy if our lives are totally governed by these THINGS, the very things society says we *should* have. Bisexuality is, to me, a rather "advanced" form of sexual expression. It feels neither "gay" nor "straight" and I know people who practice bisexuality can be completely happy identifying with one or the other (and free to choose either way too!). Most of the "bisexuals" I have met identify as "mostly straight." I myself feel quite "straight". I know many women who consider themselves "bisexual" are actually in long-term loving relationships with their husbands or boyfriends. I think the swinging community CAN and SHOULD change to become more allowing of bisexual play among men. Furthermore, I think the swinging community is the PERFECT place of it! Why not?! I personally know a lot of *women* who think it would be wonderful and a lot of fun to see men together! Truth be told, I think there are *already* a lot of bisexual or bisexually-inclusive men who happen to be swingers right now. Naturally, they feel awkward if their environment isn't condusive to something, and especially if there's a HOSTILE environment around sexuality. So, I think swing clubs should have a "Bisexual Couples" night once a month. And, people are mostly curious afterall and I think swing parties are a lot more wholesome and healty a way for men, especially married men, to enjoy this aspect of their sexuality than other forms of "recreational" sex, most of which strike me as pretty un-healthy. What's mostly upsetting on this board is a sense that, even in this day and age, the 21st Century, we live in a global age, we see so much more acceptance than before, so many people with different backgrounds and diversity living side-by-side... Yet, some people are still propping up the same old me-first exclusionary vision. By no means am I scolding people saying this vision is "wrong", it's just something like, "give it a break", when has this vision EVER made people happy in society, how is this ever gonna make YOU happy? Sex and sexuality are meant to be enjoyed afterall, and it's somewhat disturbing to hear people say things that make me believe they aren't very happy. Sadly, I'm afraid that no amount of swinging is gonna help in some extreme cases. Happy Holidays, -- P.T.

Gentlemen, Counsel, Esquire, Judge, and Jury... :-) Ease up! Please, please, please don't feel like you're eating your own shit! No one wants you to eat your own shit! I personally haven't tried it, but I doubt it tastes all that good. My experience of actual SEX (both in and out of swinging) has been really quite friendly, joyous, helpful, relaxing, uplifting, educating, enlightening, fun, silly, giggley, sometimes scary and frightening, usually surprising. All this was way, way beyond what I expected out of the experience, out of life. This "beyond expectation" aspect required me to see what I was actually getting out of the experience, what I was actually experiencing, and what I was unwilling to experience. This required me, nay DEMANDED me, to drop my own biases, prejudices, uptightness, fear, shame, guilt, what have you.... I am personally very grateful, EXTREMELY grateful, especially to some people (women actually) who helped me immensely. I know the fear some people experience because I've been thru it myself... Does this mean I want to "convert" them? Heavens no! It means I can relate, that's all... I genuinely hope you guys have a wonderful time in swinging. If your experience is anything like mine, you will discover that you can and will look around someday and see people, just people, beautiful, splendid, wonderful, sexy, erotic, PEOPLE. And that's when it's hits you: "I'm pretty wonderful, sexy and erotic in my own rite, and I feel really great, and I'm OK afterall, and I don't need to be so hard on myself all the time, and I can give myself and others a break, a big break." Take care, -- P.T.

The whole point of swinging *IS* to be "converted!" The whole point of swinging *is* to venture beyonds society's narrow constraints of sexuality and sexual expression. The whole point of swinging is for couples (male *and* female) to have sexual experiences with other males and females. The last time I attended a swing party it was, of course, couples-only and gender balanced, but there were loads of naked men there. Indeed, half the population was MALE! Hot, sweaty, perspiring, muscular naked men!!! I even saw two guys embrace each other in a hug (I don't know for sure but I think they were good friends). So, is this nauseating?? No, of course not! Is this "bisexual"? Sure! That is if you look at the experience you are having as already including equal parts male and female. I have not done a lot of swinging but what I have experienced is that people end up kind of blending, that there are bodies all over the place, and that you can't help but rub up against some hairy sweaty guy just as easily as you rub bodies with a beautiful blode babe! It's simply part of the scene. One cannot help it. And it's sad to think how some people still feel ashamed of their bodies, even after sharing sexual experience with others. It's sad to realize that other men, my fellow male brothers, are among these individuals who are still ashamed. Good luck. -- P.T.

At 40, I'm still not old, but I've lived a fair bit of time... This is what I've learned: My "preferences" tend to be pretty fluid. They have a mysterious, wonderful tendency to change over time. I might "prefer" something like coffee for a long time. Then, one day I try something new, like tea, and I discover I really like it... This is simply the joy of life, the joy of living. This seems to be the basic point, not whether we have preferences for one thing or another and that's it, that's all we know. It's finding out how willing we are, how courageous we are to try different things, especially if new trying things might give us greater happiness and cause others to be happy too. Some of the posts here seem to be coming from a place of absolutes. Something akin to, 'This is such-and-such a way that's the way it's gonna be.' I don't believe the world is at all like this. I believe if you look around at your own life, you will find that things are constantly changing, that old relationships are fading away and new relationships miraculously come into your life. Of course, if we don't want new relationships, that's entirely up to us. But I think we run the risk of becoming very lonely and bitter and unhappy if we go THAT route. I think all of us are well aware of how lonely, bitter and unhappy some people can be because we personally know people who, sadly, are stuck in that unfortunate situation themselves. I would usually agree with those who think that bisexuality, or whatever, is not OK for them. Sex and sexuality is, afterall, a matter of individual taste. However, it seems at least a bit inconsistent to me if such views come from people who claim to be "swingers," not because I have a pre-defined notion of exactly what a "swinger" is, it's just that it doesn't seem a very *real* point of view. All my experiences of "swinging" are quite tolerant and friendly and relaxed. In fact, that's what the swinging world *IS*! I am a bit suspicious of a swinger who thinks female bisexuality is great but male bisexuality is "dirty." This view seems too polorized. Furthermore, I wonder how these same individuals can go into a play room at a swing party house filled with two dozen nude men and women, all in various states of sexual bliss, everyone hot and sweaty, for several hours, and come away from an experience like that and still think that male bisexuality is "dirty." Sorry, but this seems halarious to me! I'm literally laughing as I write this! Sincerely, -- P.T.

It's hard for me to imagine *anyone* -- male or female -- participating in swinging, going to party houses, talking to others about sex, interacting with others sexually/sensually, having actual sex with others, etc., etc... all this without having some sense of one's coservative bubble undergoing a bursting, so to speak... All the sex parties I've ever attended have revealed all kinds of different people to me: short people, tall people, people of all shapes and sizes, all shades of brown and black and gray and white and olive. In fact, NO ONE is exactly like me!! And Everyone is DIFFERENT from me. So how could I possibly have some pre-determined agenda about the sex experiences I seek to have with anyone I happen to meet??? The point is what has already been made by others here: I don't think we can have a very good time sexually in swinging if we're not in an open-minded place in ourselves. And the act of swinging strikes me as very very revealing and the open mind can't be far behind when one is being so challenged to overcome our hang-ups. It's a good thing to be challenged, especially about our hang-ups. That, to me, is what's so positive about swinging. -- P.T.

I'm a bisexual man. I would not have claimed that 10 years ago, or even 5 years ago, having been very "straight" for almost all of my adult life. Recently, however, I have come to a place of greater acceptance in myself for what I enjoy, and especially what I seek in the world. And, in many ways, it was VERY liberating for me to explore this side of myself, of being a male in this mixed-up world, and to overcome my own judgements, biases, fears, and ignorance. In my view, this is no different than someone discovering they enjoy photography or wine tasting or basket weaving -- when it's all said and done, it's no big deal really... As it turns out, I really enjoy being with certain friendly, caring men because it is strikingly similar to my most enjoyable experiences with women. This may be a big surprise to people who claim there are big differences between men and women sexually. I have found that there are indeed some differences, but not SIGNIFICANT differences. To me, being with a man can be equally as loving, tender, sweet, sensual, caring, compassionate, hot, and sexy. I really enjoy kissing women, and it was such a pleasant surprise to discover that I could enjoy kissing with my own gender just as much, that good kissing is good kissing, that someone who's a good kisser is a good kisser, that it really isn't a matter of the gender of that person (in most cases ;-) ). In short, sex with someone doesn't replace something, it arguments it. Being a happy, playful, sexual person isn't an end in itself, it's a means by which we can do other things in our lives. And it's up to us if those things bring us further happiness or if they cause us (and others) further struggle and strife. It's not meant to be a strife. I sincerely hope this helps.

Delighted to find this board, and this great topic! Actual bisexual man here. Hope I can shed some light based on my own experiences. Not married, but I have two very nice intimate girlfirends. Mostly "straight" but decidedly more inclusive of men in sensual play in recent years (I'm 40). I am "out" to both lady-friends as bi, and they're both very supportive, even encouraging. I have discovered bisexual play in twosomes, threesomes and foursomes. Although pretty rare, it can be very nice when all parties are open, honest and there's trust and communication beforehand. In fact, when everyone is comfortable, we've found bi male-inclusive encounters to be some of the best sex ever, with everyone (men *AND* women) really having a wonderful, memorable time. Some personal observations: married men within couples seem to have a tougher time with bisexuality. The times we've enjoyed most are almost always with unmarried couples in some sort of committed pairing. Perhaps it's just a societal thing, but when a couple is married there seems to be more fear of being labelled, judged, ridiculed, shamed -- Sad but true... Bisexual women tend to be more accepting and encouraging of bisexuality in men, I've found. Perhaps because they are more fluid with their own sexuality, they seem more OK, even appreciative, of others' sexuality too. In fact, over the years, bisexual women have been the most help to me in coming to terms with my own bisexuality. I am very grateful to them! The swinging community is, for the most part, a great place for women to explore and express their bisexuality; I feel there's really no reason why men might someday enjoy the same freedoms. I've found that many women are quite turned on by man-to-man interaction, and it can be a truly wonderful expression for couples to share in this way. I find no shortage of men who fantasize and are interested in bisexuality. But it does take some level of maturity to really enjoy it, IMHO. I feel many men want to explore with their own gender but are pretty unsure how to actually proceed. It would be nice if the swinging communinty could give more permission for this, as I think that's what's missing at a lot of swing clubs. Hopefully, it's just a matter of time. Yours truly, -- Bi Friend