Are voyeurs and exhibitionists swingers?

[good times 990]

OK, I replied to another thread where the poster said they were into voyeurism and exhibitionism and said that he thought that made them soft swingers. My definition of swinging is that in order to swing you must have sexual interaction with others outside of your primary relationship, and soft swinging would be sexual interaction up to but not including penetration. So I wouldn't consider people who were into voyeurism and exhibitionism exclusively to actually be swingers.

 

My question is are voyeurs and exhibitionists swingers?

[Guest Mr&Mrs-naughty]

Since none of us "own" the word or definition of "swingers" its one of those things that are open for interpetation.

 

I ,however, agree with you. There has to be some touching to be considered swingers.

 

Having sex in front of others or watching others may be fun but if there is no contact except between the couples themselves then they fall into one of those big words you have in your thread title.

But if they want to consider themselves swingers to, then so be it.

[Spoomonkey 418]

I would say that swinging would encompass voyeurism to the extent that it is mutual play. If two couples wish to stay with their spouses/partners, but would like to be in an open sexual environment and watch, they would be "soft swingers" in my opinion.

 

If - however - they decided that they didn't want to have sex - just wanted to stand against the wall and watch, I would think that they are not swingers... In the same way - people looking at monkeys in the zoo can't really call themselves monkeys - people who just watch can't call themselves swingers... Does that make sense?

 

Our first interest in swinging was "soft" in which we would watch others while they watched us. That didn't last too terribly long, but long enough for us to consider that a real "avenue" so to speak.

[good times 990]

If - however - they decided that they didn't want to have sex - just wanted to stand against the wall and watch, I would think that they are not swingers... In the same way - people looking at monkeys in the zoo can't really call themselves monkeys - people who just watch can't call themselves swingers... Does that make sense?

 

Makes perfect sense to me, this is actually what I am most used to seeing at the clubs when I refer to Voyeurs. It seems like some nights their are a bunch of what we refer to as gawkers who just sit in the corner and watch. More often than not if you aproach them and try to make conversation they beat a hasty retreat (leave).

[Spoomonkey 418]

good times said:

...they beat a hasty retreat (leave).

 

Thanks for subtitling your foreign tongue...

 

 

Yeah - these are just curious folks. There is not harm in them being there, but they are one of the reasons why we tend to do our playing in the rooms with doors closed. One night, Mrs Spoomonkey decided to go down on me on one of the couches. When she started, there was another couple across from us - and two more couples chatting some distance away... When my vision cleared back up, there were about two dozen people crowded around us like we had been in a bike accident...

 

I felt like saying, "okay - now you two do it" to some random couple...

 

We just had to shrug it off and go play upstairs...

 

And damn if a few people didn't actually try to follow...

 

Now I know why my club serves popcorn

[good times 990]

I know what you mean Spoo, we were in the play room one night just getting into it when I opened my eyes long enough to notice that several other couples had followed us in. I still didn't pay much attention figuring they would get with it in due time. But then two of the women started giggling, and of course I thought they found something humorous about Mrs. GT's technique and imediately went from flag pole to wet noodle (lost my woody) in record time. Mrs. GT got a little pissed, especially when one of the women asked us to "please stay, we will watch quieter". As it turns out one of the couples has continued to come to the club regularly and actually asked me to do a whipped cream nipple shot on her a couple of weeks ago, which is the first time anyone other than her partner has touched her that I know of. She later told us that they were currently negotiating going further and would let us know. So you never know, everyone has to start somewhere, I guess.

[lauriern 16]

I guess you could argue that soft swingers are either voyeurs or exhibitionists since part of their fun is watching and being watched.

[fun_pairTX 26]

We went to a Texas Rangers game the other night and it sure didn't make us professional baseball players, nor were we offered their salary. If you are a spectator, then you are just that, a spectator.

[biblonde 22]

My definition of swinging is that in order to swing you must have sexual interaction with others outside of your primary relationship, and soft swinging would be sexual interaction up to but not including penetration.

 

That would be my definition! If you are being voyeuers or exhibitionists then that is what you are, not swingers! swinging to us is playing with someone other than your SO whether it be just kissing and oral to full intercourse. without it you are a spectator!

 

my 2 cents for the day

[xxoticangel 98]

In order to "swing" there has to be some sexual activity with someone other than your SO. How much activity determines where you fall in the spectrum of "soft-hard" (using the bar graph theory again). If your only goal is to watch your are a voyeur. If you only want to be watched you are an exhibitionist. Nothing wrong with that. We enjoy watching and being watched too.

[WesternSwing 504]

We know couples that are definite swingers, but the men in the relationships are also definite voyeurs and the women definite exhibitionists as well. The women show-off all they can in the appropriate situations and love to have people watch them have sex. And the men can be very content just watching their wife getting it on with other people without being physically involved. As one put it to my wife "just hand me the popcorn and don't worry about me!"

 

I think swinging is what you make of it, and there are as many ways to swing as there are swingers. In fact I had one gal tell me that even though she had shared boyfriends (both hers and other women's) in FMF encounters, what she was doing wasn't "swinging"... I think it is. I guess it's just which definition is most comfortable to you.

[VCee3 15]

I thought I'd dig this up after a search because it's something we've been thinking about.

 

Mrs. V gets extremely turned on by the thought of watching other people having sex (not porn, physically in attendance) and has also mentioned that she wants to be watched having sex by other couples (Note couples, not singles looking for a cheap thrill.. well, maybe, I'd have to double check that with her )

 

Clearly we don't class ourselves as swingers because in the great marathon of this lifestyle, we're still deciding what training shoes to buy, however if we went to a club we'd like to think we could watch and be watched without freaking anyone else out. I can imagine if we pissed someone off by just watching it would make us feel that it was clique-y because thats how we would want to 'start out'.

 

As pointed out by good times and Spoomonkey, we'd probably be one of the couples watching and, hopefully if the mood took us when asked 'Now you do it', we'd be happy to return the favour!! facelick ...but would hope that if we didn't and were just watching to get us into the scene, we wouldn't be offending anyone. I guess it's tricky because the concept of voyeur/exhib. is so broad and probably tainted by the trenchcoat brigade.

[LindayRoy 15]

We are also voyers, till this day the extent of our experience is we have been in the same room with other people having sex while the other couple was having sex, we watched each other mansturbated watching them and they mansturbated watching us.

 

We also got in the hot tub and there was some touching involved.

 

We are both in the medical field so we have a fobia to STDs because all the things we see on a daily basis.

 

Furthermore we just dont feel comfortable with the idea of having sex with other people, but we have absolutely no problem doing almost anything on a club with most clothes on.

I get a kick watching her being fundled and felt in almost anyway by other guys and she likes to see me have fun with other girls.

 

Bottom line, we consider ourselves soft and we do consider ourselves swingers but we just dont know If we will ever have full intercourse or even oral sex with others.

 

Mainly is because of STD fear.

 

Maybe someday we will find that magical couple where we both will feel so hot about and so comfortable about that we will go all the way...but we are very happy as we are right now.

 

Another problem.... we are trying to get pregnant so we are not using any birth control. Condoms are by no means birth control so no way Jose.

 

I know many full swap swingers get frustrated when after playing with us they cant go all the way but we dont lie, we tell everything upfront and of course they make a move hopping for more, that is why many full swaps dont like to consider us as swingers...not even soft.

 

Our rule is a very simple one "No exange of any body fluids" and yes, that also means kissing.

The friends we have met that are happy with that go home very satisfied and those who expected more.... well they go unhappy.

[sunrise_sunset 16]

Seems as though the voyeurs and exhibitionists outnumber real swingers at some events we have been to lately.

[des1re06 200]

Since this older post was resurrected, I feel the desire to comment too.

 

We are exhibitionists and full swap swingers. We enjoy watching too.

 

If couples or singles quietly watch or are doing their own thing (oral or full sex) in the same area where we are, it's not a problem.

 

I hate people having a loud conversation or laughing in the room. This has turned us off from doing anything at Menages upstairs recently. The past few times we've been up there, it's been like college frat night, with a bunch of younger people laughing and talking very loud. They don't seem to understand what the rooms are for or respect what's happening.

 

When we first went to Trapeze in Atlanta, there were a bunch of guys (like 20) standing around a bed jerking off while this couple were having sex. Now that bothers me. We found out later that it was "single male" night.

 

No touching! If you are a voyeur watching what we're doing, that doesn't give you the right to touch. I had an issue with this in a voyeur room once. A guy was touching me, and I had to stop my partner mid-stroke to get rid of him.

 

Off soap box now.

 

Mrs. D

[sexcupid 809]

I think swingers are both. There are repeated posts of 'i LOVE watching my partner with someone'...so there is the voyeuristic side of things (i think voyeur has a bad rep for a word...like a peeping tom or someone hiding in a closet and getting their kicks....).

 

Also here you can find posts that entail 'i LOVE to know people are watching me or that hubby is watching and enjoying, etc.' And there is the exhibitionistic POV (not your 'flasher in a trenchcoat' or something).

 

Now, we have been to the club a few times and left the door open (to the dungeon room) and in the main play area we have been watched too. But we have never started doing something and then all of a sudden looked up after a while and had a huge audience or people standing right over us. And I have never had someone touch without asking first.

 

So...to sum it up...I like to be watched and Jeff normally likes to do the watching....I just think that there are so many negative connotations to the terms voyeur and exhibishionist that some are loathe to use the terms.

 

Just my .02

 

Maria

[bdrcc1 15]

Des1 WE agree 100%, same thing happened at our club.

[good times 990]

Funny that this thread got resurrected today, I completely forgot about it, but this is something we have been discussing a lot lately. So much so, that I have been planning on starting a new thread about it.

 

Our local clubs have all but been totally taken over by voyeurs and exhibitionists. As an example, last night we went to one of the local clubs and of the 20 or so couples there, less than five of them were actually swingers. This has become such a problem that many of the regular swingers we have talked to have quit going to the clubs because of this. We have even been discussing with a few former regular club goers we know starting a once a month house party or meet and greet that you have to be pre-qualified to attend. The only pre-qualification required would be that you have to actually be a swinger to attend, no voyeurs/exhibitionists allowed. I don't know if this idea will ever go anywhere, but the voyeur/exhibitionist problem is getting totally out of control, at least in our area. The bottom line is, we go to swingers club to find like minded people who want to have sex, not to hang out with people hoping to see some skin.

[des1re06 200]

Almost makes you feel like an animal in a cage, huh? Now, if some of those folks watching wanted to chat and learn more about the lifestyle and they were interested in joining in instead of only wanting to watch, it would be different. IMO

 

Ya know, if you start up a good house party, more swingers will gravitate to it instead. We would, simply because we love house parties. Ask every couple to bring a simple finger food, and ta da, you've got a fun party!

 

I can't wait til this darn leg heels and we can have another house party.

 

Good luck with your new adventure!

 

Mrs. D

[WesternSwing 504]

good times said:

Our local clubs have all but been totally taken over by voyeurs and exhibitionists. As an example, last night we went to one of the local clubs and of the 20 or so couples there, less than five of them were actually swingers. This has become such a problem that many of the regular swingers we have talked to have quit going to the clubs because of this. We have even been discussing with a few former regular club goers we know starting a once a month house party or meet and greet that you have to be pre-qualified to attend. The only pre-qualification required would be that you have to actually be a swinger to attend, no voyeurs/exhibitionists allowed. I don't know if this idea will ever go anywhere, but the voyeur/exhibitionist problem is getting totally out of control, at least in our area. The bottom line is, we go to swingers club to find like minded people who want to have sex, not to hang out with people hoping to see some skin.

 

We've seen the same in our area. We only have one on-premise club and it just opened, so that hasn't been a problem there. But several night clubs in the area close to the public one night a month or so to host off-premise, exclusive "couple's nights".

 

We've seen allot of wannabes starting to come and party because it's a funner crowd than at non-swinger night clubs, and they can see lots of skin and sexy stuff. Most of these seem to be 20-something couples testing the waters and playing "swinger" on the weekends.

 

The problems come in when you don't know who is who and thus who is safe to approach and who isn't, or who is a real prospect for hooking-up with and who you're wasting your time on that night. Or in extreme cases, like happened at a Halloween party thrown at one of these clubs a couple of weeks ago, a drunk non-swinger 20-something guy got jealous and took a swing at one of the swingers. He and his wife/girlfriend were immediately escorted from the club.

 

That's the kind of crap that goes on at non-swinger night clubs where the college crowd hangs-out and all the alpha male gorilla chest beating goes on. Not our gig. Too much drama.

[good times 990]

WesternSwing said:

Or in extreme cases, like happened at a Halloween party thrown at one of these clubs a couple of weeks ago, a drunk non-swinger 20-something guy got jealous and took a swing at one of the swingers. He and his wife/girlfriend were immediately escorted from the club

 

I have actually almost had that happen to me, I didn't actually see it happen as my back was turned to the guy. But apparently the guy took offense when I placed my hand on his girlfriends back to keep her from tripping on a step (I was giving them a club tour at the time) and he started to take a swing at me. Fortunately, a friend of mine was standing next to him and grabbed him before he connected. Needless to say, while they didn't get tossed out, they did get the benefit of a pointed discussion about the lack of judgment of someone so jealous coming to a swingers club.

[Tia Vampire 167]

We voted "no". As others have stated, swinging must involve sex with others. If everyone is just standing around watching each other, what kind of party or swinging is that? Sounds more like a M&G. If there is'nt anyone having sex, what would the voyeurs have to watch? and if there was no one watching, would the exhibitionist perform without an audience? You need others to be there to complete what it is your trying to accomplish. That is why swingers need other swingers to swing with. So all of them getting together is swinging. In our opinion, a M&G should be a better place for voyeurs and exhibitionist to meet than a house party or club. Just our 2 cents.

[Vjklander 136]

We went to a Texas Rangers game the other night and it sure didn't make us professional baseball players, nor were we offered their salary. If you are a spectator, then you are just that, a spectator.

 

Maybe so, but during the World Series I saw several ball players from other teams in the stands. So being a spectator doesn't exclude you from being a ballplayer either.

[Vjklander 136]

I guess the bottom line is they are different things which are neither mutually exclusive nor mutually inclusive.

[havefuninsun 122]

I think swingers can be voyeurs and exhibitionists. I DON'T think voyeurs and exhibitionists are necessarily swingers.

 

I like Vjklander's analogy:

 

Maybe so, but during the World Series I saw several ball players from other teams in the stands. So being a spectator doesn't exclude you from being a ballplayer either.

 

And I think the examples like GoodTimes related are a good example too.

 

I voted no.

[wolfnblu 15]

I don't think the labels are important. If they have sought out a swinger's club to attend, and are enjoying the open sexual play that others are choosing to have right there in a public place, I'm cool with that. If you don't want others standing around watching you have sex, don't do it there.

[good times 990]

wolfnblu said:

I don't think the labels are important. If they have sought out a swinger's club to attend, and are enjoying the open sexual play that others are choosing to have right there in a public place, I'm cool with that. If you don't want others standing around watching you have sex, don't do it there.

 

The only problem is that in real life the swingers are getting tired of being the voyeurs entertainment so they aren't coming any more. At some point the clubs cease being swingers clubs and become voyeur clubs and their is less and less sexual play to see.

[Littlebitsexty 15]

I think most people are, by nature, voyeurs. I think most people, at times, are exhibitionists. I think it takes a very special breed of all three:voyeur; exhibitionist; swinger, to swing.

[CXXC 435]

Understanding that not everyone fits in every spot, would it not be safe to say:

Not all voyeurs/Exhibitionists are swingers but all swingers are Voyeurs/Exhibitionists.

[fun4Ds 1,097]

I say and voted,

 

"No, if they are exclusively voyeurs and exhibitionists and don't play with others they are not swingers."

 

I see three separate identities, with all three having different levels of entitlement and satisfaction.

 

If we are with another couple I can be voyeuristic or an exhibitionist...And we will be swinging!

 

Neither of them can do what I can do (have sex outside my primary),

 

We (swingers) have the best of all three worlds.

[good times 990]

CXXC said:

Understanding that not everyone fits in every spot, would it not be safe to say:

Not all voyeurs/Exhibitionists are swingers but all swingers are Voyeurs/Exhibitionists.

 

I don't think so, at least not for me. I think it is just how I am wired, but a spectator or performer I am not. I am pretty much that way about everything in life though, as I don't enjoy watching others play sports either, for example. I am more of a doer than a watcher. I can't say that watching others have sex is a turn-on for me, nor do I enjoy having people watch me having sex. So, no, I am neither a voyeur nor an exhibitionist, but I am a swinger.

[mikeandjenn2001 77]

This was exactly the way we got started swinging, was just watching and being watched...the voyeurism/exhibitionism part of it. We eventually moved on to soft swap and then full swap. Maybe not all voyeurs are swingers, but I would definately say most exhibitionists are. We were at a party where a single lady played with just about any guy she could get...partly because that's what she was into, but also because she was an exhibitionist. There is no "rule-book" for what qualifies as swinging, what works for some, may not work for all.

[SecretAsianMan 348]

I would say that if the only thing a couple does is watch / play with each other ... then they're not "swingers"

 

However, most swingers do engage in some voyeurism / exhibitionism at some point in their activities.

[losAmantes 318]

It seems that swinging parties have become a vanilla fad now. We've noticed within the last year or two that there seem to be a lot more couples that just stand around fully clothed and watch; hotel parties are the worst, but we've even seen it at house parties. Like a previous poster said, when they're approached for an introduction, they blush and scurry off to safety. Nothing wrong with newbies watching, and we love putting on a show, but at least introduce yourselves. Several years ago I would have probably said that voyeurs and exhibitionists were swingers because that's how we got started. Now that most of them just come to parties for the live sex show and with no intention of swapping, I've changed my mind. Years ago it was "cool" for vanilla couples to go to a strip club together, now they've figured out that they can go to a swinger party and get a much better show for a lot less money.