Does a history of cheating lead to swinging?

[intuition897 2,177]

JnCC - I've read many of your posts. They seem to be well thought out and well organized posts, so maybe I'm just a bit thick-headed. I have to admit that I still don't really know what your point is. How do you feel about cheating? Because although you've stated before that you're not advocating for it, or making excuses for cheaters, many statements in your posts - or even just the general tone of them - say otherwise.

 

Do you feel that cheating is as natural, normal and healthy an alternative to 'extracurricular' sexual interest as swinging? I agree that no one can know why someone will cheat; I think often cheaters don't have a clue themselves as to why they decided to "go left instead of right". Frankly, it doesn't matter one bit to me what their excuse or reason was. Anytime someone throws up their hands after hurting someone else and says, "Not my fault!" it makes me cringe.

 

My stance is that no one can make you cheat. In every affair, it always comes down to the wire where the person in question must make a decision. Rape is not an affair; an affair is consensual...except for a person's spouse of course. So the person must decide which is more important: him/herself or his/her spouse? I would not choose to be in a relationship with someone whose sole purpose in life is "looking out for number 1". My opinion is that that is wrong. One of the defining characteristics of being human is that we can choose to rise above the "survival of the fittest" and "looking out for number 1" and "only the strong survive" bullshit. It is very sad that we, as a species, do not all share this philosophy. Or at least do not share it consistently enough (Christmas holidays it seems to be more in synch).

 

I feel that knowingly engaging in something that you KNOW would hurt your spouse is wrong. Just like getting behind the wheel of a car after you've had a few. It involves a decision. You chose to drink to excess, which impaired your judgment. You then chose to take the keys, tell your friends "Nah! I'm fine! I'll just drive slow.", and drive away. "My judgment was impaired" or "My friends were supposed to not let me drive." or "The dog ate my homework" sound like pretty pathetic excuses to the parents of the 5 year old kid you killed on your way home.

 

If this comparison seems too far off, I dunno, maybe it is. But cheating can kill little pieces of you, too. It's just that the body keeps on living. I think anyone who underestimates the destructive power they wield in a trusting relationship is sitting on a time bomb.

 

But these are my own opinions. I am interested JnCC (no sarcasm here!) in what your opinion is.

[JnCC 24]

How do you feel about cheating?...Do you feel that cheating is as natural, normal and healthy an alternative to 'extracurricular' sexual interest as swinging?

Gee...if I said that after many years, and several times on both sides of the issue, I really didn't have any "feelings" about it one way or another, would you believe me? Allow me to explain...

 

You mentioned "natural, normal, and healthy" as if they were all one and the same. They are not. Even the words themselves can be somewhat nebulous in their meaning. For example, I have a friend who is gay. Is it natural? Yes...homosexuality occurs in a certain percentage of the population as a result of both prenatal biochemical influences and enviornmental factors. One cannot and does not "choose" to be gay. That some people will be gay is "part of the expected order of things." Is it normal? No...his sexual preference is clearly not of a "usual pattern or type," nor is it "regarded as typical for a specific group" (I.E., all homo sapiens) Is it healthy? The answer to that might depend on who's answering the question. If you're in the clergy or work in public health, you might feel one way....if you're happily, gaily "gay," self-assured, and comfortable in your own sexuality, you might answer it quite differently.

 

Now apply the same tests to the concepts of "philandery" and "swinging" and see what you get.

 

Do it again, but this time, substitute the words "living in Canada"

 

My point is, and has always been, that it's really futile to waste our energy having "feelings" and making arguments for or against what other people do, so long as it doesn't involve us. We don't often know why people do what they do, and we should at least be open to the possibility that in circumstances similar to theirs, we'd be doing exactly the same thing they're doing. That rule applies to swinging, cheating, living in Canada, turning left, butt-fucking, and eating at Burger King. Anything can be the "right" thing or the "wrong" thing, it just depends on the circumstances.

I feel that knowingly engaging in something that you KNOW would hurt your spouse is wrong

You could say the same thing about people who are "knowingly speeding." The argument that they'll "hurt their spouses if caught" doesn't hold water with them, because they don't think they're going to be caught. And like "knowingly speeding," it's something that people tend to do with increasing frequency right up to the point that they DO get caught. It happens, eventually. But NEVER the "first" time.

But cheating can kill little pieces of you, too. It's just that the body keeps on living.

I could not agree with you more! But have you ever noticed that most people when confronted about their cheating will tell you that "little pieces of them were already dying?"

 

It's a good reason not to let the "circumstances" of your relationship get to that point.

[intuition897 2,177]

It's a good reason not to let the "circumstances" of your relationship get to that point.

EXACTLY.

 

Ok. So I guess what it comes down to then, is that I say that choosing to cheat on one's partner is wrong. Absolutely wrong, no excuses, no ifs, ands or buts about it. I'm talking about the act of cheating itself being wrong for any reason.

 

You are saying that there is no absolute wrong when it comes to cheating, because it's just people choosing one road over another. That they are reacting to their circumstances. It's just an individual's way of dealing with their own version of reality. Is this correct? I don't want to put words in your mouth or anything, I'm just seeking clarity.

 

We all have our scars. While my scars are my own business, I will say that they have left me with a lingering pain and very deeply held convictions. This is how I have chosen to react. If you prefer not to react to your experiences the same way that I have to mine, that's entirely up to you. That's the beauty of being human. Our little imperfections and flaws, our strengths and weaknesses cause us to have tendencies to follow one path or another. Our predispositions still do not give us the right to hurt others, simply because doing the right thing was "impossible" (or too difficult or uncomfortable for us to follow through on).

 

And the speeding thing...touche. Really can't take that analogy any further in my favour. That opens up a whole new can of worms, doesn't it?

[curiousagain 326]

I believe cheating is USUALLY a symptom of something else wrong in a person, a couple, or a relationship and at it's core is a violation of trust.

 

Although different people put it on different places on the "wrong scale" it is at it's heart a violation of trust. To me it is like taking you and your spouse's joint retirement account and blowing it on the state lottery without telling them. A cheater has taken something from them and the relationship without their permission. And in cases like that, it's never done in one fell swoop, always a little at a time until it's all gone. I also have come to believe it occurs most often when the cheating partner loses respect for the other or maybe stops caring about their feelings. Almost invariably when you hear of someone caught cheating, you can look back and see signs that the person had long since lost respect for their spouses needs, opinions, and feelings.

 

But, all that is just MHO.

[JnCC 24]

So I guess what it comes down to then, is that I say that choosing to cheat on one's partner is wrong. Absolutely wrong, no excuses, no ifs, ands or buts about it.

YES! If you're YOU! The rest of the cheaters in the world may be the biggest assholes in the universe, but I'll withold judgement on 99.9% of them because I don't know the whole story.

 

You are saying that there is no absolute wrong when it comes to cheating, because it's just people choosing one road over another. That they are reacting to their circumstances.

No, there are good people and bad people out there. I'm just saying that most of the time, I'm not in any position to know which is which. Sure, there are some who I think I have a pretty good idea about, BUT...???

 

To have a really great relationship...to be a "Super Couple" as one of my friends puts it...requires the right 2 people, meeting under the right circumstances, at the right time of their lives. If you're one of those couples, count your blesssings! Many people strive for "Super Coupledom" but never quite achieve it. It's not for me to judge how they fill in the "low spots" in their marriages. I just hope that they don't add to their troubles.

 

And the speeding thing...touche. Really can't take that analogy any further in my favour.

Tell me about it...my last one was $187! And I was lucky...if he'd waited another mile before lighting me up, I would have had breakfast as a guest of the county. That's assuming he could have caught me.

 

BTW, that was $187 in real, AMERICAN dollars, not those "diet-dollars" y'all have up there.

[Spoomonkey 418]

To have a really great relationship...to be a "Super Couple" as one of my friends puts it...requires the right 2 people, meeting under the right circumstances, at the right time of their lives. If you're one of those couples, count your blesssings!

 

I do everyday

 

Spoomonkey

[Chicup 38]

To have a really great relationship...to be a "Super Couple" as one of my friends puts it...requires the right 2 people, meeting under the right circumstances, at the right time of their lives. If you're one of those couples, count your blesssings!

 

Interesting way to put it and I know we qualify.

[beaverz 18]

We can’t really vote on the Poll due to the fact that we both didn't have previous relationships. We were young (she was 18, I was 20), but not virgins. Not to brag, but we are one of those Super Couples that JnCC mentioned, ok I am bragging. We both have been on the same page on every aspect of our relationship from day one. We don’t let the daily problems interfere with our relationship, from raising our kids, to religion, to finances, friends and especially the problems caused by our families (man they can be a pain in the ass ).

 

Our first ten years together we had many family and friends make fun of our relationship, because we both put each other first before anything else. Most of those family and friends have had affairs and are now divorced.

 

We both feel there is not a pussy or dick (in her case) that would be worth destroying our relationship with cheating.

 

We are not swingers at this time, but if or when the situation presented itself we would approach it just like everything else we have done in our relationship.

 

P.S. Hopefully I don’t get served papers today that would suck.

[beaverz 18]

Just an observation, of the family and friend’s relationships that have been affected by an affair 75% were the woman of the relationship that had the affair. I am not sure if this is a trend or just anomaly.

[curiousagain 326]

Just an observation, of the family and friend’s relationships that have been affected by an affair 75% were the woman of the relationship that had the affair. I am not sure if this is a trend or just anomaly.

 

 

I think it is a trend. Years ago, it seemed it was the man who was "out running around" Now it seems I mostly hear of the female doing it. Times change, attitudes change, behaviors change.

[AlanCatherine 18]

I think it is a trend. Years ago, it seemed it was the man who was "out running around" Now it seems I mostly hear of the female doing it. Times change, attitudes change, behaviors change.

CuriousAgain? Who was the man out cheating with??? Maybe you are just hearing the woman's side of it more? I mean they don't just go out and cheat do they? They have to be doing it with someone so I imagine there is a reasonably even number of both sexes, now AND then...

 

Or do you mean "out running around"?

[Vespertine 31]

From what I understand "out running around" means to cheat, to be out at bars or such, looking for women/men to pick up. Being out of the house, looking for a piece of ass. Acting single, if you will.

 

I agree with CA. In the past, more men would be screwing their secretarys or single female coworkers, or single females they'd meet when they were "out running around"....while the wife stayed home with the kids.

 

I've see a lot of women out there "running around" while their husband's are home with the kids or wherever. Hell, just watch Oprah... She'll tell you all about it.

 

I think it's because women aren't so dependent on their husbands anymore. Nowadays, we have high paying jobs, nannys, and an equality we didn't have a few decades ago. We're not tied to the house with a bunch of babies on our hips. Some of us even have male secretarys.

[JnCC 24]

I've seen a lot of women out there "running around" while their husband's are home with the kids or wherever... Nowadays, we have high paying jobs, nannys, and an equality we didn't have a few decades ago. We're not tied to the house with a bunch of babies on our hips.

I think the internet has changed dating habits and expectations even more that the pill did. Now that women can "run around" without leaving the house, more than ever are doing it.

 

What suprises me most is how cavalier some women are about having sex with men they've never met other than online. Some of the stories one hears go beyond just having a "little innocent fun" and border on the pathological.

 

(For example...a woman meeting a man late at night in a well-lit coffee shop and chatting for an hour or two before proceeding back to her condo probably isn't placing herself at risk, especially if they've been chatting on the phone as well. But a woman meeting a new chat-room buddy at a Florida rest stop at 3 A.M., then having sex in the back seat of her car is STUPID)

 

About half the divorced people I know admit to some infidelity in their past. In the past, it was often an ex-lover or somebody they knew from work. But increasingly, it's become somebody they met in a chat room. Their reasons for cheating are predictable..."My spouses [alcoholism/cheating/inattention/abuse/frigidity/or whatever] drove me into the arms of the other person" It's not the worst thing I can know about a person, and it's never an automatic deal-breaker for me.

 

It used to be that if we knew where our spouses were, we pretty much knew what they were doing. Even though the sex act itself can be over relatively quickly, the preliminaries...the process of selection, flirting, courtship, etc., can take weeks or months. So if your spouse spent most of their day in their office or home with the kids, there was a pretty good chance they weren't fooling around. But now that people are able to get the preliminaries out of the way via the internet, they don't need to spend vast amounts of time away from their responsibilities. The "date" happens in the chat room, and concludes with sex in the parking lot at the mall.

 

And me? I am SO glad I'm single...

[Vespertine 31]

I think the internet has changed dating habits and expectations even more that the pill did. Now that women can "run around" without leaving the house, more than ever are doing it.

I forgot to include this in my reasons why more women are cheating.

 

This would have to be the #1 reason, I think.

[curiousagain 326]

I am sure there are a lot of reasons but I have to agree the internet is a large part of it. One of the reasons I stopped using vanilla internet dating sites is that I discovered a lot of the "single" women on there are actually married. Now the fact that a lot of the "single" males on there are actually married is old news. But, maybe it's just me, but I thought the fact that so many married women are using it to cheat is relatively new. But, maybe I am behind the times.

[JnCC 24]

One of the reasons I stopped using vanilla internet dating sites is that I discovered a lot of the "single" women on there are actually married.

I haven't run across too many married women on the vanilla sites. Maybe it's because I rarely respond to ads without pics, and they're understandably hesitant to post pics on singles websites.

 

The best one of all time was the woman who contacted me, listing herself as "separated." Meeting over coffee, she seemed friendly, but exceptionally guarded about her living arrangements, and when her kids got to spend time with their dad, etc. I told her that I wasn't trying to pry into her personal affairs, but as a part-time dad myself, it was hard to maintain our conversation without knowing if she's married, divorced, living together, etc. She drew up her breath, and started telling me about how she was, in fact "separated"...courtesy of the state. Her husband was 2 years into a 10-year sentence for molesting the son of a family friend. She blamed it all on his alcoholism.

 

I've been drunk before...REALLY drunk. But I've never been so drunk that putting the penis of a 10 year-old boy into my mouth seemed like a good idea.

 

Waiter! Check please!

[savannah_bi_fem 15]

Cheating seems to be the hot topic of late and some of the comments in the thread "more on cheating" made me wonder... is there some sort of connection between those who have cheated or been cheated on in the past turning to swinging in future relationships? Is it possibly some people's way of preventing cheating. Kind of like the idea that if drugs were legal we wouldn't have a drug problem in the US? Well if the acts that are usually considered cheating in a relationship are ok'ed by the parties in that relationship (thus they agree to swing), then cheating won't be a problem anymore.

 

Any thoughts?

 

What a fascinating topic. I voted "my spouse was cheated on in a past relationship". I've never cheated on anyone, or been cheated on (that I know of). My husband has never cheated on anyone, but was cheated on (an affair) by his ex-wife. He caught her at it, then she filed for divorce. We both had VERY vanilla marriages before each other. In my case: my ex-husband was very straight-laced and low-libido. I was quite a bit younger than him and somewhat naive when I married the first time (figured that things get better with marriage & time). Nope, they got worse, of course! Sex went from about 2-3 times a month as newlyweds, down to about 3-4 times a YEAR in the later years, and I always had to initiate. I have a high libido - but I stayed married to him for 15 years and didn't cheat. It was HARD! But, I chose to end the marriage and then move on with my life, later finding my match.

 

I think that some people are hardwired to not cheat on a spouse. I believe that I'm one of those people. I know that anybody can be tempted given the right circumstances, but I think that some people are far more resistant to actually giving in, no matter how bad it gets. I don't pretend to know why, but I definitely believe this. I think my husband is hardwired to not cheat, too.

 

Yet, we are swingers. Why? Not for the variety, exactly. Not for the feeling of "cheating, but with permission" as some people feel. We might be odd in this way in the swing community. But, we both agree (and I know we both believe this) that it's not about the variety, about getting some strange and being with other people. It's really about the two of us sharing a provocative sexual adventure, together. The reason the others are there is because they're part of OUR fantasy scenario. In other words, we are there for each other far more than we are there to experience the other(s). We enjoy watching each other have sex. We feel close without it, and we feel close when we share swinging. We both often say that we could stop swinging today and it wouldn't affect our relationship negatively with each other. Swinging isn't something we need. It's certainly not something we feel we need in order to manage our high libidos or our curiosity (or to keep us from cheating with others). It's just something we enjoy together occasionally, with the right people. In fact, we can't even enjoy it unless we know our mate is really enjoying it, too. Watching each other enjoying sex is our primary turn-on. As you can probably guess, we are same-room swingers. In fact, our sex with each other afterward is more intense than the experience with the other people was.

 

I don't believe that our not cheating or his past experience of being cheated on has anything to do with why we swing (answering the original question). We started with the pursuit of FMF/FFM threesome, because (1) I had bi fantasies and (2) he needed time to think about how he'd feel seeing me with another man, due to his past. I totally understood this and I'm sure I would have felt the same way if I'd been cheated on. In time and going slow, he found it to be a turn-on seeing me with a man, and he's very comfortable with it now.

 

We never discussed or seriously considered swinging until some time after we were married to each other. It's because we have learned how to open ourselves up to each other and really share deep things (which we never could do with our exes), we ventured there in our fantasy life together and then in reality.

 

Personally, I don't think that "super-couples" are a by-product of luck, right place, right time. I think it's mostly a matter of making the marriage and each other a very top priority, and working at breaking down communication barriers between each other. Two people are only as close as each person allows him or herself to be to another. People who are guarded or who hold secrets from their mate just aren't going to be open or comfortable with genuine disclosure. Openness leads to complete trust. Trust is broken by withholding and by deception.

 

In the current/new issue (Dec) of Marie Claire magazine, there's a huge article on cheating, what it is, emotional affairs, the affect of the Internet on cheating, etc. Great article! They report that in a study conducted with both men and women, the question being which is the worst part of being cheated on for you - the fact that your mate had sex with somebody else, or the deception? Around 75% of both men and women felt that the deception was the hardest part to get over, and the most destructive.

 

It's very hard to rebuild trust in somebody who shows themself to be adept at lies and cover-ups (which are a necessary part of cheating and/or affairs). That's very telling. For most people it's not so much about the sex as it is the secrets and lies. I feel the same way about it. If my mate can lie to me, and then tell another lie to cover up that one, and then another -- what have we got? Nothing.

 

I can't imagine getting into swinging with a partner that has cheated on me.

 

Also, I wouldn't touch a cheater with a 10-foot pole, as far as swing partners. So many of the "single men" we've been contacted by are really cheating husbands looking for a hook-up on their next business trip, etc. I include in the definition of "cheating" those who have secret email accounts for their secret profiles and personal ads, secret online cybersex friends, etc. I'm sure that many other people define these things as cheating, too.

[michelle101 15]

An interesting subject, one that the Mr.and I have touched on before.

 

If Mr.101 had cheated on my in the past, there is no way I would have considered the swinging lifestyle with him. My comfort level in this lifestyle, comes in part, by knowing he would never do that. It comes from my trust in him. Had he ever done anything to break that trust, then I don't think there would have been a solid enough foundation of trust to work from. Which I believe is key.

 

I would never say to myself, Well, he cheated on me, maybe we should swing so it won't happen again. Swingers can cheat too. And without the trust that he wouldn't cheat, swinging would just be a big weight on my shoulders as opposed to the fun time sharing my husband, that it is now.

 

On the other hand, the Mr. and I have been exclusive since High school, so the thought has crossed my mind that by the time he reaches a certain age, whatever that age may be, that he will get to a point of saying wow, I've only been with one woman my whole life. That sucks. Now, this thought is not why we began swinging, we began because I had fantacies of seeing Mr.101 with other woman as well as others about group activities, but it certainly does wipe out the thought of wow, only one woman my whole life. It makes me feel good that he is having all kinds of new experiences with different people. And I love to see him enjoying himself. Swinging has only enhanced our relationship in a possitive way. So, am I trying to prevent him from cheating by swinging, no, but you gotta think, although I know it happens, why would anyone cheat on their SO if they swing with them? If there is someone the Mr. is interested in, he comes right out and tells me. There is no need to sneak around. And also, he says he loves that I am right there cheering him on!

[pairbond 19]

Cheating had nothing at all to do with our interest in swinging, although we know couples who got started swinging as a result of one or the other of them having cheated.

 

My wife cheated on her 1st husband. I never cheated on my first wife, although as our marriage started deteriorating we tried open marriage and both of us had sex with other people. Open marriage, like swinging, is not a cure for a troubled marriage.

 

My current wife and I have not cheated on each other. We got into swinging due to a combination of curiousity, recognition that we were getting older and it was "now or never," so to speak, and because we had relocated to a new city where we had neither friends nor relatives within 500 miles of us and we hoped that swinging and physical intimacy with others would make it much easier to establish intimate friendships. It worked. Several of the couples who were the first ones we started swinging with are still our closest friends after almost 9 years now.

[havefuninsun 122]

I don’t see a correlation between what kind of “lifestyle” you live now vs. before and cheating. Cheating happens every day between all walks of life – there is a 50% divorce rate, for crying out loud. And a lot of those divorces have to do with someone cheating on someone else.

 

Of my friends who cheated on their spouses, it was clearly an emotional affair, and had nothing really to do with sex per se. If they were interested enough to become emotionally involved in a member of the opposite sex, SOMETHING was missing in their relationship. Their current relationships were not providing what they needed. Pure and simple.

 

From what I have read on these boards and from what I feel, this is why I think cheating/affairs/etc. are less likely to happen to folks who swing: They COMMUNICATE with each other better than any group of people I’ve ever seen. And I feel like that, too – not only am I more open about how I feel about swinging, sex, sex with someone else besides my partner, but I find that I feel less inhibited sharing other things, too, that make a relationship work. We talk a lot about how we FEEL – does this feel right, wrong, etc. … it has helped us be much more open.

 

Can vanilla people achieve this? Certainly. But because they’re not forced to communicate about something so close to them … sex with someone else besides their partner … I think it’s easier for them to hold their emotions in and not talk about the way they FEEL. And it’s easier for the party who is hearing about the “feelings” to dismiss them. If I say to Mr. Fun “I have a bad feeling about X,” he is all ears. He wants me feeling good; he wants me not to worry or be jealous, and he wants to hear all about my desires. Then again, maybe that’s why we’re a strong enough couple to venture into this lifestyle…

 

So, if we cheated or not in our past has nothing to do with who we are today. Most of us seem to be in very close and unbelievably tight relationships. THAT is what makes cheating unappealing; we would never DISRESPECT our partners that way because we are too close to them to do that. Sharing what we share is where it’s at.

[intuition897 2,177]

Well said HavinFun!

[Menage_a_Trois 182]

We have also ran into two couples who were maried but not to each other. We didn't want to play with them but we talked to the second couple enough to find out that evidentely cheaters think of swing clubs as places they can go where they are unlikely to get caught.

 

I have run into this ALOT as well. It's like they think it's their playground. PLEASE get a room......

 

The Other Mrs. Menage

[WesternSwing 504]

Of my friends who cheated on their spouses, it was clearly an emotional affair, and had nothing really to do with sex per se. If they were interested enough to become emotionally involved in a member of the opposite sex, SOMETHING was missing in their relationship. Their current relationships were not providing what they needed. Pure and simple.

Exactly. Usually it's not the sex that sucks, it's the relationship. And if the sex does suck it's because relationship sucks and you don't put too much effort into sex with someone you resent for one reason or another.

 

I've said this exact thing before. Although some do cheat because of sexual problems in the relationship, the majority of affairs happen because of emotional issues in the marriage. And many times the sexual problems are an effect of the emotional problems. But, people don't look past the surface of "I'm not getting any" to see why they aren't getting any.

 

Mr. WS

[cumhungrycouple 15]

Exactly. Usually it's not the sex that sucks, it's the relationship. And if the sex does suck it's because relationship sucks and you don't put too much effort into sex with someone you resent for one reason or another.

 

I've said this exact thing before. Although some do cheat because of sexual problems in the relationship, the majority of affairs happen because of emotional issues in the marriage. And many times the sexual problems are an effect of the emotional problems. But, people don't look past the surface of "I'm not getting any" to see why they aren't getting any.

 

Mr. WS

 

there alwasy sems to be many reasons why people cheat but mostly seems to be

 

Single men with GF: cheat as they want lots of ONS partners - one safe always there girl and plenty of others. its not the sex its the "hey i am a stud" machoness. To me this is insecurity

 

Married men and women: seems to me mostly happens out of "boredom" people want romance and the thrill of a "secret" relationship. Also for men at mid-life or so the "I am still a stud" and for women "I am still attractive" thing

 

Swinging doesnt fill these requirements fully - well a man can prove his "stud like capabilities" but that infers a selfish attitude no good with 3+some - well not for long!

 

I think mostly happy swingers are happy a they have strong relationships and wouldnt cheat on their partners but can have the extra fun and possibilities 3+ can provide. This implies that if stop swinging then no cheating.

 

Thats different to saying swingers are happy as they can "legit cheat". Ok for some maybe thats needed but for most? It does imply that if a couple stop swinging then one or both will eventually cheat for the "variety" so you have to keep on swinging. This by the way is how most non-swingers seem to me see swingers. horny cheaters that say "lets do it in front of wach other". somehow I find that an unromantic thought

 

You can have a lot of sexual variety and excitemnet with one person anyway with some imagination, a camcorder, pvc outfits.........

 

I suppose the wife and I are still old fashioned in that fidelity, committment and trust are still foundations of marriage. If we stop swinging (and will have to when living in her home town) then we know we wont cheat - and I will face 100's of cute yound sexy things after me so I have to be trust worthy. Old fashioned romantics!

 

What do others think?

[WesternSwing 504]

there alwasy sems to be many reasons why people cheat but mostly seems to be

 

Single men with GF: cheat as they want lots of ONS partners - one safe always there girl and plenty of others. its not the sex its the "hey i am a stud" machoness. To me this is insecurity

This seems more like keeping her around while looking for something better.

 

Mr. WS

[mustasher 15]

any one from Johnstown Pa

[Karenandtom4you 15]

We have never strayed from each other without the other's knowledge and consent. For us-with the Lifestyle-there is no need to cheat.

We totally love each other -the Lifestyle has helped us be honest with our feelings toward each other as well as those we meet.

-Karen

[prettylady 221]

My husband cheated on me.

Nothing more needs to be said.

Your friend,

Prettylady

[fun4two 15]

ok i the (female half) have been cheated on in the past and cheated in the past..but i only cheated because i found he was..i understand that doesnt make it right but if one can do it so can the other...hubby has never cheated on anyone but has been cheated on in the past..we as couple have never cheated on each other.. swinging came about to give us that little extra spice and varity in the bedroom...and to see each other with other people...

[BentLie0909 15]

My bf cheated on me for a major part of our relationship and that caused me not to want to swing. When he stopped cheating, I thought swinging was an excuse to cheat with my approval. I was afraid that he would be consumed with getting to be with all these other women that he would treat me like he was treating me when he was cheating. Now, I am starting to think it may have helped us.

[Tia Vampire 167]

I get bored easily. I love sex when you first start out in a relationship, you do all you can to impress the boy/girl and fall in love with this person if everything else is there. New sex is good sex, I love impressing a new person and doing things i would usually do with my boyfriend because he does not like it or feels uneasy about it. Experimenting new people and new positions makes swinging worth getting into.I thought i knew everything about sex and could not be impressed, but there are things and positions i still have to learn and try. not everyone does it the same or can get to that spot the same way. Yes , I've been cheated on in the past and sometimes i feel it was my fault. Swinging to me has solved that problem. I am a one nutter and after that i want to go to sleep. The boyfriend i have now can go on and on, so i may bore him. We spoke about swinging and have done some and to my surprise i like it. I love my man dearly and would'nt change him for another for nothing in the world, by bringing another woman/man into the relationship has made us happier and closer. To tell the truth maybe we bore each other and this has added spice to our lives and we're good with it.

[Guest MrsVan]

MrVan and I had been cheated on in previous marriages and both of us had tried to bring the lifestyle up in those relationships and the other spouse at the time did not agree but instead would rather cheat. But for MrVan and I now in our marriage, we have everything we need and because we have the love for each other that we express often that bond has allowed us to be in the lifestyle knowing that the other will not leave.

 

There are times that my fears come back to haunt me as I at times wonder if I am putting my relationship at risk that MrVan would find another woman he would rather be with. But I know that he will never leave me and because I know that he loves me more than I can imagine I quickly try to overcome those fears yet again and put them away.

 

Being able to be apart of the lifestyle and do the things that you would have never done in a "vanilla" relationship, opens up your relationship more. And because of the lifestyle it has brought MrVan and I closer than anyone thought possible. (Although our relationship was already incredible before the lifestyle).

 

MrsVan

[Rvrtas 15]

Both of us came out of long term monogamous relationships - F would have been amenable to playing but his wife would have none of it. K had never entertained the idea, despite a less than satisfying relationship with her ex-husband of 28+ years.

 

It's amazing what honest and open communiction can accomplish. Understanding how important trust is to any relationship, but esp one involving other partners, we had a huge head start. Both of us knew the other was completely capable of honest behaviour. I think if cheating had been an issue for either of us before, it would have taken a lot longer for us to progress to the possibility of playing.

 

F

[SouthBond 18]

My husband cheated on me.

Nothing more needs to be said.

Your friend,

Prettylady

 

If you, as a couple, have talked about swinging and you say that you cannot stand to see him with another woman, he is still going to move towards finding a piece of strange. He probably isn't interested in finding another spouse or S/O but he has the itch. If you continue to block his desire to seek out a play thing, he will cheat. And then you risk the possibility that the woman that he is cheating with is actually looking to for a mate and would be more than happy to replace you. On the other hand, a swinger fling is about sex. I would bet that 75% of the divorces brought about by cheating could be prevented if the wife would get her head straight and agree to a swing fling. Or at least take him to Mona's Ranch in Elko, Nevada and buy him a piece of muff. Of course for the rest of the time that you are together, you can always through cheating up in his face. And then he may say that he loves you but there is a little part of his brain that says that he hates you.

[richdon03 31]

If I had told my husband of my desires instead of going behind his back, we would have been swinging a long time ago.

 

Interesting. While neither of us has cheated, both of us have considered it at least once or ten times. Our marriage suffered a great deal (you can't even imagine) because we couldn't even discuss sex with other people without the wife throwing a total fit because of a sense of inadequacy. No fantasies, no nothing. Our world changed a few months ago when she was telling me about someone she worked with who was having sex with multiple partners for her husbands pleasure. While that is not my thing, it opened the doors to a discussion about swinging.

 

We both admitted that, throughout our marriage, we had been attracted to other people (some to a greater degree) and that neither of us should be ashamed of it. We began discussing our fantasies and agreed to act some of them out. Interestingly enough, since then, neither of us even considers cheating. No need to. The best part is that the sex in this hous is 1000 times better than before and the tension level (mistrust,etc) has decreased by a mile.

[prettylady 221]

If you, as a couple, have talked about swinging and you say that you cannot stand to see him with another woman, he is still going to move towards finding a piece of strange. He probably isn't interested in finding another spouse or S/O but he has the itch. If you continue to block his desire to seek out a play thing, he will cheat. And then you risk the possibility that the woman that he is cheating with is actually looking to for a mate and would be more than happy to replace you. On the other hand, a swinger fling is about sex. I would bet that 75% of the divorces brought about by cheating could be prevented if the wife would get her head straight and agree to a swing fling. Or at least take him to Mona's Ranch in Elko, Nevada and buy him a piece of muff. Of course for the rest of the time that you are together, you can always through cheating up in his face. And then he may say that he loves you but there is a little part of his brain that says that he hates you.

 

I don't want to be rude, but I am completly lost by what you said. I never said no to anything he wanted. Swinging was never brought up, and to be honest until I met Dog I thought it was the thing if tv shows and movies. I never got jealous of his flirting. He HATED to see me around other men. He acually gave a friend of his a black eye for having his arm around me (nothing even remotely sexual).

What I got from what you said, and please correct me if I am misreading this. Is that it was my fault our marraige ended because I would not swing?

Sorry my friend, but you do not know my story well enough to make that assumption.

Again if I misread your statement let me know.

Your friend,

Prettylady

 

ps just double checked the thread. I never said anything other then "my ex cheated, nothing more needs to be said", I never said I couldn't stand seeing him with another woman.

I am all kinds of confused by your comment back to me.

[M and H 15]

All 3 of the other long-term relationships I've had in my life ended because my partner cheated.

 

The 1st one had a recurring affair with his ex-girlfriend, the 2nd one cheated because I couldn't fuck him as often as he needed (he was built very big and I would tear every time he entered me), and the 3rd one cheated on me because he felt emasculated by being unemployed and supported by me for 9 years (his libido was so bad that at one point, there was no sex in our relationship for 4 years). When he finally got a job, he found it easier to wine and dine a woman he met at work than to rebuild our relationship.

 

My current long-term relationship is with my husband. We have a wonderful relationship, but he has a history of cheating which I'd like to nip in the bud.

 

So having myself been a swinger for a year or so a few years ago (after my 3rd monogamous relationship disaster), and believing not only that swinging can be a wonderful way to strengthen a relationship through the open communication it necessitates and the amazing FUN a couple can have together as swingers, but also that swinging can provide a safe outlet for sexual needs that one or the other of us might not be able to provide at some point in time, I've asked my husband to consider swinging.

 

He's willing, but shy, never having done anything like swinging before, but we're talking about it every day and we're certainly enjoying the process

 

M (of M&H)

[farmer 15]

A missing category in this poll is "Been cheated upon earlier in current relationship."

 

The wife did so very early in the marriage and for quite a while, and lied about it even though we had then and since talked about what we now know is called swinging and swapping. This recent revelation by her, coupled with other apparently unrelated problems she has created over the years since, have made repairing the relationship pretty tough. Not sure how it's going to turn out. She seems to be gradually but finally loosening up to swinging and swapping, so then good, I'd say, because it will likely the the only we'll stay together.

[Lovers4U 15]

My wife and I have never cheated on each other, though on a visit to see a former friend they ended up in bed. We had discussed a relationship such as this many times and when she returned she told about what happened and I never considered it "cheating". Later we spent time occasionally with him and never thought of the cheating angle. We believe that cheating comes only from not telling a partner or trying to lie to avoid any consequences. My wife visits a man occasionally, who married after they had they had not been having sex together for awhile. His new wife knows he is with another person occasionally but not whom. She has just told him she doesn't want to know about it, period. A stretch might call this cheating but I'm not sure as his wife is aware just doesn't want to know about it. I am fully aware and even help her get ready to visit him. We have communicated to each other that when either plans to be apart for sexual activity the other will know. When we swing there isn't a problem at all. That's our philosophy but others might vary.

[WonderWhat 166]

My ex-wife cheated on me, looking for sex in chatrooms.

 

I was always completely faithful. She always had been extremely jealous. She hit her pre-mid-life crisis, flipped a lid, went completely bonkers and decided to cheat on me in an obvious, hurtful manner.

 

I was devastated. I tried to stop it: showered her with attentions, which she rebuffed, forgave her several times, and she promised to stop. This went on for six months. The day after the last time she promised, I overheard her phoning her current lover to "wait it out until he lets his guard down."

 

I decided then and there that I had had enough. We separated and eventually divorced.

 

The problem with cheating, as someone already said here, is not the sex, it's the lying, the disloyalty, the aggression.

 

My current wife was a hair's breath away from cheating on me almost four years ago, before our marriage. She had started to tease her ex and was planning to fuck him and dump him: it was a power game, a revenge.

 

Fortunately, I found out and confronted her. After several days of not seeing each other we got together for what was most probably going to be a goodbye. She fully understood how hurtful the whole situation was for me after my previous experience, and when I told her our relationship was over she broke down and didn't even try to defend herself, just saying that she understood my pain and was sorry that she even thought about doing it.

 

That's when I understood she would never, ever do it to me again. I changed my mind on the spot and asked her if she really wanted it to work out between us, if she wanted another chance. I'm glad she took it.

 

We've now been together for almost six years, passionately in love, with two years in the lifestyle.

 

In a weird sense, I think that the episode with my (current) wife helped me get over the fear of being cheated upon. If that had not happened, I would have always had a niggling fear of being cheated upon, probably to the degree of not even remarrying. Now I know she would never do it. I don't know if it makes sense to all of you.

 

What I'd like to point out is that cheating or not cheating really has nothing much to do with our joining the lifestyle. Yes, we have high libidos, but that doesn't make us lust for other people. In our case, swinging is something to share between us, a shared sexual adventure.

 

Well, just my $0.02.

[SirDavidandhalo 15]

Both Dave and I have been cheated on in previous relationships. Those relationships were not strong to begin with. But the cheating bothered us because it was done behind our backs. In fact in both cases we were already swinging so we thought...what the heck? So as Dragonslair stated swinging will not fix what is wrong with your marriage. Dave and I have a strong relationship so swining just adds to it. We are strong believers that humans are not sexually monogomous. We feel that SOMETIMES that is what leads to cheating. We have talked at length about this and there is no reason for either of us to cheat as we have the other partners permission to have sex with whomever we choose as long as the other knows of it and is getting their emotional needs met at home.

[Jim&Shelley 17]

She and I both cheated, that is how we came to be together;-) I had cheated once and she was the second affair of my ten year marriage. She had cheated twice and I was the third affair of her six year marriage.

[NCfuncouple98 367]

Interesting question.

 

I cheated on Mr. NC back when we dated in high school, causing our break-up. He's 98% sure is ex-wife cheated on him, but when we married there was no hint of infidelity whatsoever between the two of us.

 

I'll have to ask him his thoughts - he is the one first brought up the subject of swinging.

[bbarnsworth 2,536]

Cheating's had no connection either to our relationship or to our swinging lives. Cheating has had an impact on my view and management of relationships (oddly, in a positive way). But, there's no apparent connection in any of it to swinging.