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The hubs and I were very active in the lifestyle for several years.  We had a great time, we had lax rules where we were ok with each other playing solo.  I traveled with him on business and had a particular lover I was completely head over heals for.  The sex was like no other, he felt it too.  Fast forward many years, we’re out of the lifestyle. He became an alcoholic and our marriage imploded.  During all of this, we had split briefly. He came back but I let him know that I didn’t have feelings for him anymore.  We could try to coexist, for the family.  We have lived this way for 6/7 years.  Last fall T, reached out to me and I went to see him.  It was electric, as it always is.


Well I was planning to see him again, and I was going to tell the hubs b4 I left, that I was going to see T.  Explosion!  He had suspected since last fall, how can he ever believe me again, oh yeah sure I was going to tell him... yada yada.  Hubs says well if this is the way we are going to spend the rest of our marriage we might as well get a divorce.


He’s the one that drug me kicking and screaming into the lifestyle, we allowed each other freedoms.  I’m heartbroken and mad! 

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Who is your living arrangement benefiting if you have no feelings for him?  Surely not the kids if you have some!  Kids are never better off being in a dysfunctional situation. It sounds like you two have more to loss then gain by living this way.  Divorce is not the end of the world.  It is chance for new beginnings for both of you.

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I'm not sure if I follow everything that's happening, but I agree with the others that this is broken and you both need to address it head-on, alone, without your third. It will very likely end in you parting ways due to the loss of trust, but it sounds like there are children and you should do the best you can to stop the finger-pointing, take mutual responsibility for what's happening, and figure out how to cooperate for them.

 

That does not likely mean pretending to live together in a sham household where you turn to addictions to survive and obviously hate each other.

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9 hours ago, spicylife42 said:

The hubs and I were very active in the lifestyle for several years.  We had a great time, we had lax rules where we were ok with each other playing solo.  I traveled with him on business and had a particular lover I was completely head over heals for.  The sex was like no other, he felt it too.  Fast forward many years, we’re out of the lifestyle. He became an alcoholic and our marriage imploded.  During all of this, we had split briefly. He came back but I let him know that I didn’t have feelings for him anymore.  We could try to coexist, for the family.  We have lived this way for 6/7 years.  Last fall T, reached out to me and I went to see him.  It was electric, as it always is. 
Well I was planning to see him again, and I was going to tell the hubs b4 I left, that I was going to see T.  Explosion!  he had suspected since last fall, how can he ever believe me again, oh yeah sure I was going to tell him... yada yada.  Hubs says well if this is the way we are going to spend the rest of our marriage we might as well get a divorce.  
he’s the one that drug me kicking and screaming into the lifestyle, we allowed each other freedoms.  I’m heartbroken and mad! 

IMO, and I've said it here before, "playing solo" is cheating.  And clearly, by your own admission, you had an emotional connection with "a particular lover."  No sure how you didn't realize that this was a recipe for disaster.

 
To me, swinging/LS activity is sexual exploration that always done together, as a couple -- and if it's not done together, it's something else.  Yes, I agree with @adamgunn - this isn't lifestyle, this is dysfunction.

?

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10 hours ago, spicylife42 said:

he’s the one that drug me kicking and screaming into the lifestyle, we allowed each other freedoms.  I’m heartbroken and mad! 

Your relationship changed. It seems obvious, from an outsiders perspective, that of course the rules changed with it. Your old relationship with your husband is over and, it sounds like, has been so some time. You need to figure out how this new relationship is going to work, if it's going to work at all, in terms of non-monogamy (and everything else). The only way that can happen is open, honest communication between the two of you which will probably be very challenging and might well not end the way you want it to... but you have to have those conversations. You have figure out what your relationship will be going forward, whether it's a non-monogamous marriage, a monogamous one or it really does end in a divorce. The only way forward is to talk it through.

 

Best good fortune to you.

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1 hour ago, Sunday said:

IMO, and I've said it here before, "playing solo" is cheating.  And clearly, by your own admission, you had an emotional connection with "a particular lover."  No sure how you didn't realize that this was a recipe for disaster.

This I have to respectfully disagree with. Different couples have different rules. For some, playing together is an absolute requirement. For others, separate play is acceptable and can be done successfully. Even having an emotional connection with a play partner is not necessarily a recipe for disaster, depending on the rules and the couples involved. As long as there is open, honest communication, respect and a shared understanding of what the rules and expectations are (and those are, of course, followed), such things can and do work for those couples they work for.

 

In the original posters case, I will agree that is hasn't gone well but it strikes me that is because their communication broke down and their rules changed, in an unspoken way.

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My question is how old are all of the players involved?  And especially the children.  Are they still at home?  Is the other man married?  Does he want to be your SO?  Is that what you want?  Who stands to lose the most if you were to divorce?

 

Even so, you seem to be over it.  Life's too short to be miserable.

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What he is doing has nothing to do with your previous swinging or you wanting to spend time with another guy (and this would be true of ANY guy, even one you just met) or your current situation.

 

This is about BLAME.

 

Now it's YOUR fault that the relationship imploded, not his drinking. He's now the good guy and you are the bad one. Start knowing this and everything else should be easier to understand. While divorce is usually looked at as an end, it is also a new beginning. The kids already know that things are not right, just ask them. Sometimes the best fix for something is a new start. Good luck

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13 minutes ago, GoldCoCouple said:

Now it's YOUR fault that the relationship imploded, not his drinking.

Somehow, I've got to think it's a little bit more complicated than that . . .

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13 hours ago, enhancer said:

Who is your living arrangement benefiting if you have no feelings for him?  Surely not the kids if you have some!  Kids are never better off being in a dysfunctional situation. It sounds like you two have more to loss then gain by living this way.  Divorce is not the end of the world.  It is chance for new beginnings for both of you.

We are 60/65. Our kids and grand live across the street.  Our kids are grown and they know I have not loved him in years.  

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11 hours ago, Sunday said:

IMO, and I've said it here before, "playing solo" is cheating.  And clearly, by your own admission, you had an emotional connection with "a particular lover."  No sure how you didn't realize that this was a recipe for disaster.

 
To me, swinging/LS activity is sexual exploration that always done together, as a couple -- and if it's not done together, it's something else.  Yes, I agree with @adamgunn - this isn't lifestyle, this is dysfunction.

?

Our rules were different than yours, we were a part of a large group of people that regularly had house party, Taladega, Hedo., this was for years,  no we didn’t call it cheating. 

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10 hours ago, Baconheads said:

My question is how old are all of the players involved?  And especially the children.  Are they still at home?  Is the other man married?  Does he want to be your SO?  Is that what you want?  Who stands to lose the most if you were to divorce?

 

Even so, you seem to be over it.  Life's too short to be miserable.

60 & 65 our kids & grand live across from us.  The kids have know for years we don’t like each other.  We are not miserable all the time, we try to get along. We haven’t had sex in over 7 years...

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The kids are gone, you don't and haven't loved each other in years...it's time to start something new. My divorce was the most frightening thing I have undertaken...and the best thing I have ever done. I'm in a loving relationship with a great woman...it was worth the price I paid.

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On 5/27/2021 at 5:10 AM, adamgunn said:

Sorry, this isn't the LifeStyle, this is dysfunction.

 

I'm sorry about the situation, but the LifeStyle is based on respect for primary partners and great communication.

We had an amazing run in the lifestyle for years. We had regular house/pool parties.  Went to Hedo. Had an orgy on the 19th green New Year’s Eve.  So yes I understand the lifestyle.   And I do know my situation is dysfunctional.  I had to explain our freedom in the lifestyle as a background for my story. 

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On 5/27/2021 at 10:43 AM, GoldCoCouple said:

What he is doing has nothing to do with your previous swinging or you wanting to spend time with another guy (and this would be true of ANY guy, even one you just met) or your current situation.

 

This is about BLAME.

 

Now it's YOUR fault that the relationship imploded, not his drinking. He's now the good guy and you are the bad one. Start knowing this and everything else should be easier to understand. While divorce is usually looked at as an end, it is also a new beginning. The kids already know that things are not right, just ask them. Sometimes the best fix for something is a new start. Good luck

We are 60/65. Kids know our marriage imploded years ago. He’s clean and sober for 4 year, ptl.  But yes I am to blame for this situation.  

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Yeah, it would have been better if everything were up front and on the table from the initial contact onward.

But from what you tell us , regardless of your past history with your husband, you two are little more than roommates now.

I can see where putting your  renewed contact with T and plans for a subsequent meeting might have been kept on the back burner.

It is not exactly cheating . It certainly is complicated.

 

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1 hour ago, spicylife42 said:

We are 60/65. Kids know our marriage imploded years ago. He’s clean and sober for 4 year, ptl.  But yes I am to blame for this situation.  

Blame is irrelevant. What is important is how you both address the need to move forward from where you are.

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But yes I am to blame for this situation.

Do you mean you realize that he is blaming you now or that you are somehow the cause of his drinking? As pointed out, you two are only roommates now, and apparently not very good roommates. It's great that he has stopped drinking for the last four years, but if the relationship is dead and everyone knows it, why do you keep this going? Why are you denying yourself a chance at happiness?

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We have an established life in this house.  I know that sounds stupid but we live across the street from our grandson.  I’m just beat down.... I don’t want to imploded the family.  It really sucks tho thinking about being celibate for the rest of my life. 

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2 hours ago, spicylife42 said:

We have an established life in this house.  I know that sounds stupid but we live across the street from our grandson.  I’m just beat down.... I don’t want to imploded the family.  It really sucks tho thinking about being celibate for the rest of my life. 

Who is enforcing the celibate rule?  I get it if you're just not turned on by or feel acrimonious towards him.

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2 hours ago, spicylife42 said:

We have an established life in this house.  I know that sounds stupid but we live across the street from our grandson.  I’m just beat down.... I don’t want to imploded the family.  It really sucks tho thinking about being celibate for the rest of my life. 

 

Everything that you have said screams one thing more loudly than anything else (and it has nothing to do with swinging). If you can't hear what that is, I'm sorry.

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6 hours ago, Baconheads said:

Who is enforcing the celibate rule?  I get it if you're just not turned on by or feel acrimonious towards him.

Well he and I have been broken 6-7 years.  He  impotent.  So yeah I’ve been celibate. I went to NOLA a few years back with a couple we were close with in the lifestyle. He didn’t seem to mind that.  I guess I sound crazy but since I had the freedom to fly solo before, why the hell do I have to stop now. 

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As someone who knows, the hardest thing I even did and the darkest days of my life were when I was trying to make up my mind about getting a divorce or not. Even thinking back now, it's still a bit frightening...but it was the best thing I have ever done for myself. That first night after moving out was the scariest and most exciting night of my life as the pressure was removed and I could breathe again. You won't do it until you are ready...and you may never be ready. Having something consistent, even though it is spoiled and bad, is more comforting than taking on the unknown. You do what you feel is right, but it is and always be your choice.

 

Hardest, darkest, and most frightening thing I have ever done...and knowing what I do now, I would do it again in a second.

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We are about the same age and married 38 years. So I understand what you are going through..... but what I don't understand is why you think you need to stay together for"appearance's" if everyone knows that your marriage is over then you are fooling yourself (s). I am willing to bet that, behind your back family and friends are rolling their eyes and saying they have NO idea why you are still together.Look at the fact that you have a limited number of years left and you want to stay together to fool other people?  Unless your grandkid is a toddler you aren't fooling him either. Fact is that the stress of pretending you still have a marriage is going to shorten your life. 

Stop this farce and separate. Nothing is worth doing this to yourself, he can't change the rules without your consent. And by what you say talking about it has passed. And I doubt that counseling would help at this point. 

Sorry if I come across as harsh. But as previously said swinging is based on communication and you guys no longer have that. Good luck and let us know how it is going.

 

 

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On 6/2/2021 at 3:51 PM, Lionheart72 said:

 

Everything that you have said screams one thing more loudly than anything else (and it has nothing to do with swinging). If you can't hear what that is, I'm sorry.

Please tell me

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13 hours ago, spicylife42 said:

Please tell me

I'm sorry... I was trying not to be the stranger on the internet telling you how to live your life. It's really not my place to do that but now you've asked me...

 

Your marriage is over. It's been over for a long time. Everyone knows this. You know this. Your children know this. Your grandson knows this. Children are wonderfully empathic and if your unhappiness is obvious to me, a stranger who knows you only from a couple of posts on an internet forum, it positively screams to that child. You are teaching that child that relationships are about power, control and being unhappy... and that is not the lessons any child (or adult) should learn.

 

Relationships are not about power. They are not about control and they do not require that you be unhappy "for the sake of the family." Relationships - good, healthy, strong relationships of the kind I believe are strangely encouraged by our "deviant" swinger lifestyle - are about trust, honesty, communication and personal growth, learning and discovery.

 

Your marriage is over. It is time, long past time, for you to accept that and leave. That can mean a lot of different things - you might create a new relationship with your husband, on new terms that are fair to you both, giving you the scope you need to be happy... or, and this is far more likely from my limited knowledge, you might strike out on your own and start a new phase of life.

 

I acknowledge that this is a terrifying transition to make. We are an adaptable species. We get comfortable in almost any incredibly toxic environment provided the bare minimum necessitates of life are available (and we can survive on surprisingly little). Any change threatens the stability we know... that those minimum necessitates of life will continue... and any change as massive as the one I am proposing is terrifying to our very core.

 

Your marriage is over. You must accept that. What you do with that acceptance is up to you, but I hope it brings you joy in the end.

 

My $.02, offered because I truly and sincerely care about your happiness and well-being even though we are strangers who will never meet... and because you asked.

Take it for what it is worth.

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2 hours ago, Lionheart72 said:

I'm sorry... I was trying not to be the stranger on the internet telling you how to live your life. It's really not my place to do that but now you've asked me...

 

Your marriage is over. It's been over for a long time. Everyone knows this. You know this. Your children know this. Your grandson knows this. Children are wonderfully empathic and if your unhappiness is obvious to me, a stranger who knows you only from a couple of posts on an internet forum, it positively screams to that child. You are teaching that child that relationships are about power, control and being unhappy... and that is not the lessons any child (or adult) should learn.

 

Relationships are not about power. They are not about control and they do not require that you be unhappy "for the sake of the family." Relationships - good, healthy, strong relationships of the kind I believe are strangely encouraged by our "deviant" swinger lifestyle - are about trust, honesty, communication and personal growth, learning and discovery.

 

Your marriage is over. It is time, long past time, for you to accept that and leave. That can mean a lot of different things - you might create a new relationship with your husband, on new terms that are fair to you both, giving you the scope you need to be happy... or, and this is far more likely from my limited knowledge, you might strike out on your own and start a new phase of life.

 

I acknowledge that this is a terrifying transition to make. We are an adaptable species. We get comfortable in almost any incredibly toxic environment provided the bare minimum necessitates of life are available (and we can survive on surprisingly little). Any change threatens the stability we know... that those minimum necessitates of life will continue... and any change as massive as the one I am proposing is terrifying to our very core.

 

Your marriage is over. You must accept that. What you do with that acceptance is up to you, but I hope it brings you joy in the end.

 

My $.02, offered because I truly and sincerely care about your happiness and well-being even though we are strangers who will never meet... and because you asked.

Take it for what it is worth.

Thank you, I appreciate it.  Yes our marriage is over, and I told him that years ago.  That I no longer had feelings for him.  He does like control.  I have to remind him that I’m not his to control anymore.  I’ve got a lot of thinking to do. 

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You keep referring to him as "hubs". I am curious has the legal knot been undone?

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7 minutes ago, lcmim said:

You keep referring to him as "hubs". I am curious has the legal knot been undone?

No we are still married - 40 years 

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There must be something in it for you other than just trying to fool everybody. What is keeping you from pulling the plug? That is the question you should be asking yourself.

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You can’t imagine how liberating and how much of a positive mental health change it can be to free yourself from an unhappy bond with someone!  It is never too late to start your life over and end it in a happy place.  

 

I know you must feel like you have been attacked in this thread OP,  but I am guessing you are probably hearing from a lot of people that have been in the same kind of unhappy relationship and have moved past it with great results.  Myself included.  I never realized how amazing my life would be without living a lie.  If I died tomorrow I would die happy.

 

All the luck to you whatever you decide to do moving forward!  Do what is best for you, not everybody else.  You deserve that and have done your duties to your family and your husband.  Good people get divorced too.

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After thinking about this some, it's looking like the rules, at least for you, haven't changed at all. The most secure prison is the one we make for ourselves. Been here, done that.

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      So we took in a very good friend about six weeks ago following a very ugly split with her ex. We have know both of them for about ten years and started playing together about three years ago. I actually have known her much longer and before we started hanging out as couples.
       
      Anyway, things have evolved to a point where we are sharing our bed 4-5 nights per week. We are playing together and separately. For example, in the morning it’s not unusual for me to come out of the shower and find her and my husband snuggling, touching and even fucking. I actually love seeing them together and have no feelings of jealousy. She and I are doing the same and actually took the day off Wednesday and simply spent the day in bed alone while he was at work. It’s not all about sex, but it’s clear that she really loves him and I think he feels the same about her. I know that I care deeply for her and may actually be in love as well.
       
      We prepare meals together, hang out in the evenings together, play together and still swing separately, but it is definitely decreasing. Everything feels very natural and relaxed and we are all content - have we found ourselves slipping into a true polyamorous relationship? I never really thought about it and we were talking about it last night.
       
      Thoughts? Warnings? This is uncharted territory.
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