Want to witness the LS, wife is disgusted by the thought

[Libtard 15]

Hi all, I'm sure you hear this type of problem all the time. But I'm looking for advice wondering if anyone has any ideas how to broach the subject without immediate dismissal.

 

So as you can see by my screen name I'm very liberal minded (lol). Did not grow up religious but my wife did. I have an extremely high libido and think about sex all the time. Our friends group are a mix of fairly liberal to conservative but we rarely discuss sex with our friends.

 

I want to experience hanging out with, watching people in the LS. I want to hang with people who are sexually charged and a sexually charged environment. I'm the jealous type so I'm not sure if I could actually deal with my wife enjoying other men but I still want the experience of the company of people in the lifestyle. Plus my wife does not want it at all. She's the type that covers up walking past the window when the curtains are already drawn.

 

It's become a drive now to the point I feel I need this in my life, I need the experience before I die but I don't want to ruin my marriage. I literally don't need to have sex or touch anyone but simply be there, maybe be naked, or masturbate if the environment was right but I don't need or want other women.

 

I've asked and explained I want to experience it and the response was "Fine do it on your own". We all know what "Fine" means coming from your wife. This is clearly not an approval. Even if I did get a clear approval I assume when i return home it would cause stress and arguments and accusations that she didn't plan for once it happens and retrospect.

 

So can you think of anyway to lighten her drastic response to the idea of it? I suggested we camp at Sandy Bottoms resort for a two days in Ontario but she said no way. I explained we don't need to be naked or do anything but she said ya right I know what you want.

 

(To be fair I would totally love to fuck my wife while others watched and visversa, yes I would do that)

 

But I would never push that on her knowing she wouldn't.

 

I just don't want my life to pass by without doing this, I'm 43, but my marriage is also awesome, we have 3 kids and I don't want to add stress that isn't required. Fuck I'm in such a bind.

 

Any ideas?

 

I may edit this to add more details later.

[cplnuswing 4,711]

Some people (most actually) just aren't cut out for swinging, and your wife may very well be one of them. It sounds like there are many hurdles between where she is now and swinging of any type, even just watching and being watched.

 

The only sort of baby step I can think of that she might be willing to at least talk about would be attending a meet and greet. Everyone full clothed, held at a local bar or restaurant, just a chance to meet people and talk to them. If she is so opposed to the whole concept that she thinks swingers are just a bunch of nasty perverted creeps, then I doubt she will even be interested in that, because who is interested in meeting people that you already know you won't like?

 

But, if she is of the type that is ok with others doing what works for them while she does what works for her, then she might be willing.

 

That's going to take a lot more talk though, because the sense I get is she doesn't really trust you on this one. I suspect she might be seeing it as she is your admittance ticket in the door to get what you want, not something that you both at least have some interest in, even if that interest only goes so far as being a "safe" way to find out what those creepy, perverted swingers are really like in person.

 

One other thing I would add is to work hard on your relationship and your sex life. Good sex begets more good sex, and when a couple has a strong relationship and a strong sex life, some fears often drop to the wayside a bit.

[Libtard 15]

Thanks for the responses folks, both your points are very succinct and true. I really either need to drop it or chance having a difficult marriage attempting the experience on my own.

 

I would like one last ditch effort to take her to a meet and greet. The problem is how do you find them.

 

I've found "munches" on Fetlife that I could contact people about but I don't think Fetish BDSM people are the right mix for my wife at this point.

 

Are there assessible meet and greet lunches promoted to people like me on the outside?

 

I'm an hour from Windsor/Detroit and and hour from London On.

 

I don't know how to find these meet and greets and request attendance.

[Jane1902 476]

You are setting yourself up with the you just have to try this mindset. I don’t think you really want to lose your marriage nor try the cheating route. Do you ever watch porn with your wife? Role play? Find some way to spice it up at home. Read more here, share with her, ask her desires. Maybe one day she will consider going to a club. Maybe not, and sometimes the fantasy is better than the reality.

[Libtard 15]

Thanks done all that fantasy stuff.

 

Also fyi, it's not cheating when you communicate what you want. If I was the type I could say . I'm becoming a swinger, take me or leave me.

 

It's up front and honest and there are no lies.

 

And guess what, it's not cheating.

 

 

I've asked for help to work out all these concepts and ideas.

 

You can decrease your tone.

 

I have jealousy issues because she never initiates sex. There are other things going on you aren't aware of.

 

Edit (Sorry was responding to multiple people and some of my response was a thanks and some was a kind --dude relax-- response. )

[cplnuswing 4,711]

I would like one last ditch effort to take her to a meet and greet. The problem is how do you find them.

 

I've found "munches" on Fetlife that I could contact people about but I don't think Fetish BDSM people are the right mix for my wife at this point.

 

Are there assessible meet and greet lunches promoted to people like me on the outside?

 

I'm an hour from Windsor/Detroit and and hour from London On.

 

I don't know how to find these meet and greets and request attendance.

Fetlife not really a swingers site, just sorta kinda.

 

Swinglifestyle, aka SLS. Various personals site may have a little bit better representation in different areas, but overall, SLS the biggest coverage. Second choice would be SDC probably. Both have event listings. Sign up for a membership (free options available just to be able to check out the site), and then start looking for an event in your area that you think might be a good fit.

[padoc 1,696]

Your screen name suits you! You don't like the tone? Too bad! Swingers generally don't like cheaters and part of your post sounds as if you're ;looking for an excuse to do so. We also don't like those who try to coerce their wife into doing something she doesn't want to do. What you clearly don't know is that swinging, while often broached by the male, is nearly always the choice of the woman.

 

You asked questions and you got answers, from several people who have vastly more experience than a bored, married guy with a hard on. That you didn't get the answers you were looking for is evidenced by your petulent response. Keep pushing your wife and you will endanger your marriage. Better you watch swinger porn and jerk off. But, what do I know? My wife is a willing participant and we've been successfully swinging since 2003.

[a_d_xxx 663]

Libtard,

 

There is no magic bullet. From what you've written a few things jump out at me:

 

"We all know what 'Fine' means" - No, some of us don't, some of us have honest conversations with our partners where we feel safe to be completely upfront and vulnerable. Where there is no hidden agenda or unspoken subtexts.

 

"I assume when I return home it would cause stress and arguments and accusations that she didn't plan for once it happens and retrospect" - Ugh, see above. In my relationships we try to say what we mean, mean what we say, and take ownership and deal with our own shit if it turns out we were mistaken.

 

Ultimately, it sounds like there is a ton of work to be done individually and together on your relationship before anything as varsity level as sexual openness is something you consider.

 

And even if you undertake all that, there is no guarantee you will get what you want.

 

You can build the communication skills, you can develop empathy towards each other, explore the things that are keeping you from honestly connecting, and a foster sense of curiosity about who each of you are, and what the future can hold... but even with all that you may discover that this is something that you will always be at odds over. But if you do that work, I can assure you, you will have a much better understanding of your partner, and be able to make an informed decision about what you want to do next.

 

D

[adamgunn 1,456]

"Also fyi, it's not cheating when you communicate what you want." So you think. Your wife may have a different opinion.

[Jane1902 476]

Communicating what you want with a take me or not attitude sounds like a bully to me. Add your stated jealousy issues to the mix...Maybe what you are not aware of is why your wife never initiates sex. As you say there is more to the story we are not aware of but you are not likely to find the validation or support you seek to proceed without your wife’s full consent here. I sincerely hope you can see the bigger picture.

[bbarnsworth 2,536]

I really either need to drop it or chance having a difficult marriage attempting the experience on my own.

 

I think what it comes down to is how much do you value your marriage? How much is your kids having a healthy home life worth to you? You already noted she gave you the ever-dangerous "fine", which isn't permission as you know. If you move ahead with this without permission from her you will significantly damage and possibly ruin your marriage.

 

I would like one last ditch effort to take her to a meet and greet. The problem is how do you find them.

 

They are well advertised on various swinger sites. Swinglifestyle.com (SLS) has been noted above. The intent of course is to get lots of swingers together in a non-committal and non-pushy environment, with no expectations. A lot of new couples prefer this approach rather than going to a swinger's club.

 

I'm an hour from Windsor/Detroit and and hour from London On.

 

You're in the heart of it, with easy access to Windsor, London, Toronto, etc. I took a quick look at SLS and found a meet and greet group in Windsor and another in Cambridge.

 

I've asked for help to work out all these concepts and ideas. You can decrease your tone.

 

As others have noted, we've seen this sort of question arise with other husbands before. It's not a question of tone. We are telling you this is a trainwreck waiting to happen. It WILL go off the rails. A wonderful woman is a thing to behold physically and spiritually. Trying to convince them of anything is way, way out of bounds. All you can do is discuss. You've done that. She's said no. She has full right to say no, and anything less than acceptance of that in every respect is very disrespectful of her. This isn't what she signed up for. This isn't what she wanted. It's not what she wants now. Maybe some day in the future it's something she'll want, but it's entirely up to her and she needs to be respected.

 

If I might offer a tiny bit of hope; there was no way in hell my wife would ever, ever, ever consider swinging. She was aware I had been involved with a married woman with the husband's consent and she was repulsed. That was the only dabbling I'd done in swinging, and I hadn't even though of it as swinging. It was something that evolved. I hadn't been to clubs, meet and greets, etc. Anyway, my wife was a million percent dead against it. Then on evening in bed, some seven years into our marriage (seven year itch, anyone?) she postulated 'what would it be like to have two men massaging her at the same time'? I was dumbstruck. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. It was a long road after that before she ever had sex with another man, but now she thoroughly enjoys it, relishes it, and looks forward to it, all while maintaining our very healthy marriage.

 

If this is a thousand step trip, you're on step -10. Be careful. Be very careful. You just might get what you wish for and lose everything.

 

I have jealousy issues because she never initiates sex.

 

I don't understand how one can be jealous because their spouse doesn't initiate sex. Depressed maybe, but jealous?

 

 

There are other things going on you aren't aware of.

 

You're right. Even if you waxed poetic for an hour about your marriage, we'd still only know probably 5% of how your relationship works. What we're telling you is that from our ample experience on this board and in real life, what you are describing, even if we are missing details, is an absolute trainwreck waiting to happen. You wanted advice, and we have given it. This is a very helpful board with a lot of good, caring people who truly want to help. We are helping you.

 

Sometimes the answers you need to hear aren't what you want to hear.

[Numex 2,176]

For now, drop it. However, is she/would she be ok with watching porn with you? That's the simplest start that I can imagine. Unlike discussing fantasies, it doesn't involve you two at all.

[Newandnaughty 3]

I have jealousy issues because she never initiates sex. There are other things going on you aren't aware of.

 

That statement speaks volumes. Maybe she’s worn out from all of the swinging she’s been doing while you’re at work. Maybe she doesn’t want to go to anything swinger related because she doesn’t want you to know that she’s very well known already amongst the crowd. Obviously extremely far fetched, however, so are the chances of your wife coming around. If you love your wife, love your marriage, love your life then just let it go.

[lcmim 1,009]

Before you do anything else, fix what is going on between you.

 

Starting with communication.

Why can you not have an in depth talk about your desires in the LS?

Does she know you want/need her to initiate sometimes? We dealt with that one ourselves.

 

Most think their communication with their spouse is just fine. If there is ANYTHING that the two of you can not or will not talk through to completion, I suggest that there is work to do.

 

Proceed to Jealousy. Jealousy is a killer. Jealousy equates to fear of loss, whether or not that fear is rational.

My 16 year old self still hung on in that area to some extent well into my early sixties. Once I could see it was there, which manifested as we approached the LS, I defined it as the enemy it was and acted proactively to eliminate it.

 

In my case it was giving my bride a unilateral, unlimited , noncancelable GreenLight. In other words took an action to radically separate myself from the emotion of jealousy. This was after a few months of "Do I really want to do this? Is this wise?" internal dialog. For me/us yes it was both, with great results. Wouldn't necessarily work that way for everyone.

 

I would suggest lots of internal self examination, be brutal in the analysis.

I would suggest opening non judgmental, honest , clear and transparent communication with your wife, be gentle in this.

[Alura 2,766]

If a couple can't discuss ANYTHING without fear of evoking anger, communication is the problem. Explore this issue together. It's not just sex; you probably don't communicate well in other matters.

 

If your wife never initiates sex, there is probably something you need to learn.

 

Please change your screen name. This board learned twenty years ago that political discussions (or politically-based screen names) have no place in swinging and are not welcome here.

[GoldCoCouple 4,015]

Let me start by saying that it sounds like you are only going to be able to have one or the other: LS or wife.

 

That being said, what can you do to try and have the slight chance of joining the two? Same formula as most of us in the LS. Work on the big three: love, trust and communication. Keeping in mind that some (most) people are just not wired for swinging, one of the main reasons is that when the subject is broached, the partner instantly thinks 'why aren't I enough for them' or 'why are they looking for a replacement for me'. This is because there has been an erosion of love, trust, communication or a combination of all three. The place to start is to improve your communication. You need to show your partner that they can tell you ANYTHING and you won't pass judgement or run away screaming because what they said is so shocking. As the communication improves, so does the trust. As the trust improves, so does the love. Our tag line at the bottom really says it all: If you don't have to lie about sex... This is not going to happen over night, but you do have time (the rest of your life) and the WORST thing that can happen is your relationship improves (no matter how good it may or may not already be). So work on that first. Then start talking about your sexual fantasies. Do this outside of a romantic event and start slow (don't just start off with 'I want to sleep with other people' again). Find the ones you both have in common and act them out. Among other things, your wife needs to relearn to be a sexual being again. She has been a 'mom' for a long time and needs to be reminded that she is also a woman. This is something that she probably needs anyway. Start with this and see what happens. She may not ever be interested in the LS, but if you want to take a shot and try, this is the first step, and will only make your relationship better even if she isn't interested.

[Guest]

Perhaps 15 years ago now I began an online friendship with a married women who happened to be a fairly experienced swinger. We never slept together but spent many hours discussing our desires / ideas / sex lives / and we became good friends.

 

She had been introduced to swinging by her husband, HOWEVER when her husband first mentioned the idea she was 100% against the entire idea, in fact the simple thought of her husband touching someone else was nearly enough to make her pack her bags and walk out the marriage. She was totally disgusted by the entire idea, she didn't want to touch another man, she didn't want her husband touching another women, she didn't want anything to do with group sex at all seeing it cause some fairly nasty arguments when it was first mentioned, in fact she was a self confessed sexual prude.

 

However her husband was a well paid man and rather than trying to tackle this problem himself he kindly asked his wife if she would speak with a therapist / sexual therapist so she could confront some of her fears and give her more sexual confidence. Well two years later after expensive and rather intensive therapy (like 2 or 3 sessions per week) this women had revolutionised her life, she had become 100% more sexually confident and had faced a lot of the fears she use to hold.

 

It was still a work in progress however about 3 or 4 years after entering therapy this women was enjoying swinging with her husband every week, they would meet couples, men, and even very attractive single women. On many occasions her husband would come home from work and have his wife and another girl walking around the house in £200 lace underwear sets and spend the entire evening having sex with them both. Later they tried gang bangs / orgies / clubs / parties.

 

I mean sure it probably cost this man a 3 or 4 year wait and a £10'000 therapy bill (if not more) but in the end he had a truly gorgeous swinging wife.

 

Honestly just 5 years before she was screaming at him and wanting to sink a knife into his chest foe even mentioning the word threesome, then after some years of therapy she was laid fully naked in a bed with 2 other women as 5 different guys pounded them all over.

 

Its a LONG SHOT....

 

I mean I'm not saying therapy would work for everyone, but am saying her husband was smart, he knew that he couldn't help his wife overcome these fears and issues because he was TOO CLOSE to the situation. That as a husband he could never truly convince his wife to swing, so he find a therapist who had lots of experience in sexual therapy and let his wife come to the conclusion in her own time.

[firebird09 37]

Hi there. I read your post and can understand your desire for something a little more to spice up your sex life. What it sounds a little like to me is your wife thinks you just want to have sex with other women. She is likely a little put off by feeling inadequate in the bedroom. This is natural to feel this is way. I think you need to first make her feel how much you adore her in and out of the bedroom. Have candid conversations about fantasies but reassure her she is the only one you love.

I can’t say this will be a ticket to the LS but it can’t hurt. Don’t mention swinging and see if she won’t have sex on the beach with just you somewhere a little risky. This all takes time for us ladies of the LS. We are not wired like you are and please consider that in your conversations.

I really liked Jane1902 comment. She was right on the money.

[Libtard 15]

I just wrote a long post response clicked post and it said I wasn't logged in and I lost it. Arrrgg. Will post again later.

[PeterJ 826]

I just wrote a long post response clicked post and it said I wasn't logged in and I lost it. Arrrgg. Will post again later.

 

It was discussed recently in the context of another thread, but if your post or response is longer than a couple of sentences, it’s wise to compose in a word processor or text pad — somewhere you can save your work — and then copy and paste to the Swingers Board forum.