The Journey has been awesome, but now she said she doesn't want to swing

[JustAskJulie 2,588]

Swinging is supposed to enhance your marriage by its presence, not destroy it in its absence. --Susan

 

Quotable Quotes

[Swing*8701 885]

Okay sportsfans, I got an email from the poster, or imposter, if you will. He explained he wrote a more intense version of the facts. He thought this would get him more honest replies. So, all I can say is,"what a jerk". See, luvyourrodsteel, being disengenuous never gets you to a better solution. Being genuine does. If I could slap you silly I would, if only to have you say you got beaten up by a girl.

[sunbuckus 3,565]

Okay sportsfans, I got an email from the poster, or imposter, if you will. He explained he wrote a more intense version of the facts. He thought this would get him more honest replies. So, all I can say is,"what a jerk". See, luvyourrodsteel, being disengenuous never gets you to a better solution. Being genuine does. If I could slap you silly I would, if only to have you say you got beaten up by a girl.

 

How does presenting a non-honest story equal into honest advice? Someone has some screwy logic. No wonder I had a hard time reading through his posts and, as someone else pointed out, they seemed to run around in circles. It's hard enough giving advice when we're presented with only one side of the story (rarely do we hear from both partners on the forum) but distorting the truth helps no one...especially the OP.

[iluvurodsteel 2]

Gees Louise, you guys now are acting very aggressively, and now I"m beginning to wonder about the value of such advice.

 

I specifically try and explain where I am at. Yes, its not a nice place to be. Yes, my "addiction" to LS is apparent. Yes, I wanted your honest opinions, and yes, I could have surgar coated my comments, to make me sound like some saint, but instead, I believe I gave a very raw, selfish, and direct explanation of where I am at.

 

I love my girl. I love where we have been, and sadly, I've enjoyed what I thought we both were enjoying. Did I deliberately decieve any of you, absolutely not, but its nice to know your opinions are based upon what you want to believe, rather than what I have said.

 

So, thanks, but other than two or three of you who have shared your own struggles with this problem, --which did give me pause to reflect, the rest were just very persnicity. (sic). Unlike Monty Python's "I came here for an argument", I came here to openly discuss my foibles, my weaknesses and my obvious struggle with this lifestyle, and forgive me, but isn't this one of the reasons that you have this forum? To discuss openly this lifestyle and its effects on our lives?

 

So, thank you for those that challenged me to think long and hard about my decision. Who challenged me to look at these matters in a different perspective, who tried to help me find an epiphany, such as to bring balance back into my relationship, that also did not diminish my love and affection for this woman.

 

Many of you just want to slam me for being direct and honest. How is that profitable? It may make you feel like a junior PhD, because you've diagnosed my issues with immediate and absolute assurance that you have clearly gleened all that you need to know from these many posts I"ve written over the last few years. I only wish that I was an intelligent, bright and smart as those that can summarily tell me without hesitation how wrong I am.

 

I want to live in your world, where you have all of your lives perfectly situated in the LIFESTYLE. Many of you have castigated me in putting sex above my relationship at the same time you are enjoying that very Lifestyle that I would love to enjoy as well. I get it, I can't have what you have because my partner has absolute veto rights. Her highest common denominator becomes my lowest common denominator. And thats okay, but gees louise people, you love the lifestyle such that you frequent forums that discuss it, and then you so readily and easily can be so very caustic and arrogant in pining away as to how awful I am.

 

If not for people like you, people like me would never know that this lifestyle existed, or even how to find a way to participate, and yet, you can so summarily step on my own desires, as if they are ridiculous and petty.

 

Thanks to those that shared, I know who you are and I've enjoyed some private messages with you.

For those that are having a field day, by slamming me for privately messenging them and ridiculing my private comments, well, thanks. You're a gem. Thats the last time I'll privately send anything to anyone on this forum.

 

I do happen to think this forum is a wonderful means to communicate and share. I just hope my experience isn't necessarily a common one.

[two4youinswva 3,067]

So, you are denying that you "wrote a more intense version of the facts"?

[pna42 67]

The ''value of advice'' is coming from those who are being ''honest and direct'' with you. However, you seem defiant to the bitter end to stay in the LS whether it costs you your relationship or not. That's selfish and pathetic. You're going to wind up very alone and maybe then you'll realize what you lost by your own immaturity.

[iluvurodsteel 2]

This was my private email to a member, who sent me a private message. Now he/she says I"m an imposter.

 

Very kind of you to write me.

 

My comments online have been very caustic. I've protrayed myself as more of a sex fiend, so as to get a real rise out of people. I do this, so they can cut to the chase and give me their thoughts, without sugar coating.

 

I love her with all of my heart. I could never find someone who loves me like she does, but now it seems like a switch has been turned off/on, and now we are supposed to be this very monogomous couple, but we hate the vanilla life.

She loved going to the nude places, but I was like, why go? Its like going to Baskin Robbins, and instead of one of the 57 varieites, I have to eat the vanilla. So I said I just won't go.

 

So now, I feel restrained. I feel like my sexual needs are not as important as they are supposed to be. So I have to sit back and learn to live my life without something, that for me, and my limited experience, has really opened my eyes to spiritual and self fulfillment? Does that sound crazy? But it really was so much fun. I've been with three women, in my life, one for 29 years, and one other one night stand. I was brought up to treat sex like love. So I played it very carefully, never cheated, never could. But now, I see sex and love a lot differently now. I still can't and won't cheat, but I really miss the open exhibitionism that goes on at these clubs that we've gone to.

 

So thanks for sharing. I love the people on this site. They really seem to care, and damn it, thats the kind of people I want to be around.

 

Now to go home, and mow the lawn, fix some odds and ends, watch our favorite show after dinner, and then prepare for bed. It used to be, have sex, then find time for everything else. I miss those days.

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

__________________________________________________________

 

That was the PRIVATE message that I've written. Its still very true. Unless you think I"m some sort of masochist for wanting you to dump on me, then the only obvious intent of my messages have been consistent.

 

I want to find a balance of the Vanilla Life and the Lifestyle. Although, it appeared we were going down that road, I'm now told no, we need to turn back. Whether the journey was percieved by you all as manipulative, or cohersed, or just a lie, doesn't matter. The fact is that I came to this board, to find some solace. I did not expect to be applauded. I knew what I was discussing was going to be percieved as crass, as selfish, and as immature. I know that. But unlike most of you, I'm just an imperfect man that even though I know something appears to be the very best, in reality, that perspection is not necessarily true.

 

So, thanks again to those that seemed to care, and for the rest of you that merely wanted to slam me, as a means to make you feel like your desire for the lifestyle means little to you, outside of what your spouse wants, well, I applaud you. But for me, I still ong for that fun, and freedom. Whether its really true or just my dream is why I wanted to be critiqued.

[sunbuckus 3,565]

Being the "aggressive" and "persnicity" asshole, I just had to point this out:

 

You said:

 

I've protrayed myself as more of a sex fiend, so as to get a real rise out of people. I do this, so they can cut to the chase and give me their thoughts, without sugar coating.

 

Yet in your very first post in this thread you said:

 

Your comments, please be gentle, are welcome. Talk me out of this. Give me comfort, but dont' chatize me too much.

 

But when you really got what you wanted, which was to "get a real rise out of people" you come back with:

 

 

Gees Louise, you guys now are acting very aggressively, and now I"m beginning to wonder about the value of such advice.

 

So, thanks, but other than two or three of you who have shared your own struggles with this problem, --which did give me pause to reflect, the rest were just very persnicity. (sic).

 

Many of you just want to slam me for being direct and honest.

 

Truly, how direct and honest were you if you had to "portray yourself as more of a sex fiend"? It distorts the situation and it doesn't allow the forum members to give appropriate advice.

 

Many of the forum members who have experienced, witnessed, and learned their lessons from being in the LS do actually give great advice to those who are willing to listen. And many, if not all, realize that they don't get the entire picture when someone comes online to give their side of the story and ask for help. All they do is try combine what they have learned, what they can glean from the limited picture they are given of the situation, and respond in a manner that they feel that they would respond or that would be best. Yes, you do have the choice to listen or not. Yes, you can accept graciously what has been said or dismiss it wholeheartedly. But please, don't play us like chumps and not expect us to get upset...especially when that was what you really wanted--to get a "real rise out of people".

 

And don't worry, I fully expect some bad reputation points for this post but I really felt that this had to be said because I don't take kindly to someone stepping into this great forum and "slamming" on some of the kindest, wisest, and thoughtful people I know.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

I could never find someone who loves me like she does, but now it seems like a switch has been turned off/on, and now we are supposed to be this very monogomous couple, but we hate the vanilla life.

She loved going to the nude places, but I was like, why go?

 

I'm not going to quote the rest of your post, because it makes me want throw dried beans at your head and, really, life is way too short (and there aren't enough beans) to throw them at everyone whose lack of logic makes my eyes roll hard. I'll just say that you have consistently, in your stories to yourself and to the forum, let your id out to play. The wrongness of an id hanging out naked in public is a pretty ugly sight to everyone (except, obviously, the id) and what you call slamming is actually a community of mentally healthy people saying, "Good Lord, man, you aren't supposed to dress like that; please go put on a superego."

 

But that paragraph above? It's pretty much the essence of why you're where you're at. No easy, self-serving (yes, pun) explanations of vanilla vs. 37 flavors disguises that you don't respect your partner or her desires. Instead, you operate only from a place of self. There aren't a lot of defenses against me me me me me me me me me me except a solid, unequivocal, unchanging no.

 

If you ever wrap your head around the idea that you are the cause of the no - and being the cause means you have the power to not be the cause, in case that's not clear - there will be some hope of a different answer.

[Coupleerotic22 1,417]

If you have not figured it out yet, honesty is a corner stone of the lifestyle. As a community, in almost all cases, we frown on dishonesty. That is true between us and our partners, as well as those coming to seek advice. Painting yourself to be one thing when another is true, only complicates things and gives others a negative opinion. That honesty we place so much value in is a significant portion of the glue that allows us to swing and keep our relationships whole. So perhaps you can understand how people become irritated at your post, which was not 100% accurate.

 

As a practical matter, stubbing your toe, spraining your ankle, breaking you leg and losing it in a wheat thresher are very different problems that will illicit very different responses. Squalling about losing you leg in a wheat thresher when you have sprained your ankle destroys trust. The whole boy crying wolf thing, you know how the story goes.

 

But you did come here seeking advice, or at least validation, for a decision you say you must make. The combined knowledge from the posters that have replied probably accounts for decades worth of swinging knowledge. It comes from people who have been-there-done-that, or at least have had ring side seats to such machinations. You have been given advice, good advice, the nature of which almost all here concur.

 

But you are not happy with the edge that many have given that advice. That edge exist, mainly, because you continue to rail against our advice and attempt to justify your desired position. Most are simply trying to reinforce their advice as they see your choice and it outcomes with far more clarity than you. You have added to the sharpness of that edge through your own falsifications. Chastising this board for giving advice you do not like in a tone you cannot abide by, does nothing for you or anyone else. No one to blame but yourself.

 

But it is your decision and yours alone. Your wife/SO has made hers, now it is up to you. There will be no one to blame but yourself.

 

In six days, six months or six years, what ever you decision, it will have no bearing on us. You will likely disappear from posting here and we will know little or nothing of your decision or its eventual outcomes. And frankly it has no impact on us. You will chose to follow the advice or not, with no lingering impact on anyone here.

 

So here it is. Your choice, for good or bad. Make it, live with it. You will have no one to blame but yourself, no matter how hard you try or what justifications you come up with.

[confused12524 201]

The op is going to have to have his own lightbulb go off. I've been there. When I posted my situation, I was half hoping everyone would agree with me and validate my feelings that my wife was the problem.

 

Surely "us swingers" would stick together.....

 

Instead I did a lot of reading and in my case discovered it wasn't the swinging that my wife didn't like. It was my obsession which changed it into what she felt was an obligation

 

Instead of being something that we did for excitement, she knew that as soon as we were done the clock was ticking. I'd be raring to set up the next one practically before we were dressed from this one. While she did enjoy it, it became an obligation. Instead of having a passion filled night with someone she really had the hots for, it was picking the lesser of evils just to get it done.

 

It was like ice cream. A normal person can eat some and be satisfied for a while. Me...I looked at the fridge in the store, saw 100 different flavors, then 100 different toppings and every one sounded better than the last. So I became obsessed with wanting to try every combination, essentially now.

 

I'd be scooping cookie dough into a bowl while still eating chocolate chip and sprinkles.

 

She just doesn't want a big bowl of ice cream every single night. And doesn't want a freezer full of it. Doesn't want to rush through dinner and have me carry on until I get the ice cream.

 

And especially being a woman, she didn't feel good about herself eating big bowls all the time.

 

When I had that lightbulb go off, everything changed.

That may be the situation here. Or not. But it makes sense and it took me forever to realize it.

 

Not too many people all of a sudden hate ice cream and never want it again. But when their pants don't fit, its logical they may say "no more ice cream"

 

No ice cream? What the hell!! You LOVE ice cream. YOU suggested we get it. NOW that I like it YOU don't want it?

 

Once I chilled out. Stopped counting the minutes till we went to the freezer. Stopped going to the grocery store everyday and pointing out everything in the aisle..... once we went back to enjoying dinner and other things together....

Once I realised there was no rush.

 

There are hundreds of flavors and toppings. And we have the rest of our lives to try them.

 

Now. Instead of it being an anxiety filled topic......we grocery shop together.

 

Many times we don't even go down the ice cream aisle. Sometimes we look at the case and flavors and don't buy any.

 

And sometimes, we're home.....and out of the blue she says "I'm craving ice cream! "

 

So we go to the store, get a couple pints and sit on the couch enjoying the hell out of it. When were done, our pants still fit. And we both say "mmm that hit the spot"

 

With all that said, I still have to be consciously aware that yes, I do have an addiction. It can spin out of control again. But in the months since I had my lightbulb moment, I don't feel that will happen.

 

I had a true change. Not simply sucking it up to make her happy.

 

I feel a huge weight lifted. That I can enjoy my relationship and other things in life that I just let pass by in my tunnel obsession.

 

Sorry to hijack this and tell my story but I think it still applies. Its almost creepy how close the op and I are in our thinking and actions. So its hard not to type 100mph.

[AngelandTiger 362]

"I can't have what you have because my partner has absolute veto rights."

 

Shouldn't that be, "WE can't have what you have...."? If one counts the number of "I"s in the posts from the OP, it's fairly telling....

[GoldCoCouple 4,014]

I have tried (as I'm sure most, if not everyone here) to give you good advice that might help you. I was never rude or condemning or mean...but you were. I was trying to help and for that you just kept coming back unhappy with what others were saying to you. I wish you luck, I wish her luck, but I've said what I would recommend and what I would do in the same circumstance so I'm done with this. I have nothing else to say to you but good luck.

[iluvurodsteel 2]

Confused,

 

Your not confused. To whatever degree my posts inferred something other than what your last post conveys, well then shame on me. I believe I mentioned my addiction, whether right or wrong, in my earlier posts. They symptoms of that addiction can make one myopic. To lose perspective of those things that really matter. The addiction seems to matter more than any other thing in one's life. And I guess my point has been to say, why is the pursuit of happiness trampled by societial mores and traditions.

 

So thank you confused. I'm looking for that "Light" to turn on, that epiphany that makes me realize where true happiness lies.

 

 

In the Movie, Stand By Me, at the end, Richard Dreyfus' character says, I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"

 

I mention that because I'm 53, and I remember those days of my youth. I remember the shear joy of the sun drenching my face as me and my friends played baseball, football, bike riding, etc. God, life was an orgasm of sorts everyday. Those days are gone, and I know that we must move on, but the few moments that I walked naked on the beach at Hedo with her, the moments of open and frequent sex around others, the moments where we shared ourselves with others, . . . were for me precious moments such as I had as a boy. Just pure freedom, no guilty, just hedonistic enjoyment of one's closest friends.

 

I still long for the innocense of my youth, but I know that those days are gone, and that's called life, we grow up, we come into and out of the lives of so many wonderful friends, and then life's responsibilities begin to weigh us done. That's called maturity.

 

But these past couple of years, has been to some degree, a reminder of my youth. A sexual freedom and exhuberance of love and joy, without any guilt, without any inhibitions, without any fear of doing something bad, or wrong.

 

So my perspective, albeit, very selfish and yes childish, is what makes me happy. Its just something I have to deal with. Not being 8 again, and catching crawfish in the creek with my booger eating buddies, isn't going to happen, because we grow up.

 

But to stop this new Lifestyle after so much enjoyment and fun, because your partner now says no, is disheartening and depressing. Which was the reason for my original post.

 

So thanks again Confused. I think I'm going to challenge myself to grab ahold of your example, although unlike you, we won't even be able to dabble in it from time to time, and to find a way to deal with this addiction. Its not easy. I'm not an alcoholic, although I can drink in moderation. I don't smoke, although I did for years, and I don't fool around behind my lover's back, because that's dishonest. But I do love the lifestyle, and unlike drinking, smoking, and unfaithfulness, I just didn't see the negatives.

 

Thanks again, this was what I needed. Someone who at least understands my cravings, but can tell me that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

[Gordo 617]

What a load of drivel. Do you think you could express yourself in under 5000 words when trying to make a point? How about....

 

"I'm 53, and want to do this every day. My wife doesn't. Should I divorce her?"

 

Old post 547 words. New post 16 words. Net saving: Enless aggravation for those poor board members still wasting time on you.

 

PS (subtext: I'm not listening to any of you anyway)

[iluvurodsteel 2]

Gordo,

 

A thousand words could not begin to describe how little your words have meant to me.

 

Confused,

 

Thanks for your words and time. You spent time trying to understand and not to ridicule.

Gordo, I'll ask you a rhetorical question, becasue I don't really want your answer. Why have you endured this endless aggravation for wasting your time, such that you even want to rant and rave at my obvious annoyance to you?

 

I thought this was a free forum.

I thought we were encouraged to talk about these matters.

I thought that my issues might have been shared by others and so I shared.

I thought that my failure to have a succinct and understandable concern over a matter as emotionally charged as this lifestyle, might be understandable.

 

Contrary to many, I did not come here to have my opinion rubber stamped by others in the LS. I came here because unlike other personal issues that you can share with close friends and families, I don't have that relief, that person I can share with. The one that is in the LS that I shared with, whose been doing this for years, told me that his 25 year marriage would be in jeopardy. It was because of his opinion that I became concerned. If he was so addicted to it, as to give up a marriage of that length, then I knew my own addicition should be addressed directly, ergo why I wrote to this board on this issue, as I have over the last several years, while my love and I began this journey.

 

I'll leave this thread now. Several of your posts have been very harsh and direct, but uplifting. I benefited greatly from many. The others, well not so much.

 

So sorry I've wasted so many of the reader's time. I just hope in years to come, when other read this thread, that might share my predicament, that they are not chilled by the tone of complaints. Instead, that they read those several posters who figured out how to balance thier addiction with the reality of their lives.

 

Julia, thanks for having this forum. My apologizes for wasting anyone's time dealing with my issues. I merely thought thats what this forum was for.

[Gordo 617]

Gordo,

 

A thousand words could not begin to describe how little your words have meant to me.

 

 

Well there's your problem.....you WOULD take a thousand words to talk about it. Mine would be 2 "Fuck Off!"

 

Forum: Free yes ( thank you mizz J )

Problems: yes

Talk: yes

Share: Yes

Endless pontification adding something totally unrelated to your problem: Hell no. It's a sign of low self esteem BTW.

[Guest sandraandalex]

iluvurodofsteel brings to mind an comic axiom from Noel Coward," When you have a love affair with yourself, you have a relationship that will last a lifetime." And boy does he have one.