Deception As Part Of Her Fun

[Galanga 249]

Ok, here’s moral puzzle for you to ponder involving honesty with anonymous sex partners. At swingers clubs you meet guys all the time that claim to be firemen, Navy seals, surgeons, etc, and you meet men and women that claim to be 35 when they’re clearly over 40. Many couples fib about their experience level, weight, dick size, careers, etc., to try to snag a shag in the backroom. I feel this is ok, and to some degree even expected. But here’s a “misrepresentation” that may raise a moral question for some, and I solicit your opinion.

 

We have a girl-toy who loves the adult theater/dogging/gloryhole/gangbang scene, and that’s why she occasionally hangs out with us on our adventures. She’s drop-dead gorgeous – a natural beauty with thick long blond hair, small but perfectly shaped breasts, long silky legs, and a killer ass. She stands over 6’ tall with her 4” pumps, and knows how to dress to ooze out every morsel of her sexiness – apparel that is so intimately linked with her sexuality that she never takes it off no matter how many guys are in line for her. Her voice is eerily seductive sounding more suited for a fat black Gospel singer rather than an Arian looking girly-girl.

 

Her facial features are stunning in their breadth and depth with giant sparkly blue eyes, a huge smile, and large puffy lips. Under her baby smooth skin is a layer of chubbiness that perfectly fills out her curves and gives her softness to the touch that magnetizes men’s hands. When guys look at her their jaws drop like that of a broken ventriloquist dummy. Whereas most adult theater girls prefer it from behind (no intimacy, highly depersonalized), she fucks face to face at adult theaters, and when she reaches those long legs out to the next guy in line and closes them around him like a Venus Fly Trap his face floods with that “this is too good to be true” look. And all of this beauty is natural with the exception of some cosmetic surgery she had on her neck.

 

She’s in her 40s, but she looks about 25 … and allows everyone to think that. But that’s not the big lie. The big lie is that she’s actually male. She lives as a woman, and there is absolutely no way to tell she’s not genetically female just by looking at her … unless you look at the right spot. The only masculine feature she has is a penis and testicles. She is so convincing that she works as an erotic dancer at a bi-friendly club. At swingers clubs and adult theaters, I watch in amazement as she takes a guy face to face, her legs wrapped around his back like lobster claws, his hands roaming everywhere on her body, and French kissing as he fucks his way to paradise, without the guy ever knowing that he just came in a shemale’s ass rather than a woman’s pussy. And she’ll do this some 20 times in a row at such venues. That’s a big part of her enjoyment – knowing that the guys think she’s a genetic woman.

 

How is this possible, you ask? Well, first of all she’s not gay and not bi. She self-identifies as a female born in a male’s body. She began cross-dressing at around 5 years old because being a girl “felt natural”. She always looked like a girl, and always conducted herself like one. She had her first sexual experience at age 12, giving a blowjob to a handyman working at their home. He thought she was a girl, something that excited her more than the sex itself. It was then that she decided to officially change her gender. Fortunately she had supportive hippie parents who allowed her live as a girl outside of school. Ridicule and bullying forced her to drop out of high school. Then she lived as a girl permanently. When she turned 18 she began hormone treatments, had her Adam’s apple fixed, and legally changed her name to a female name (which I will keep secret, but for this post I’ll call her Sally). 25 years of hormone treatments have shaped her already naturally unmasculine body into that of a super female, yet she still has testicles … and they produce large amounts of testosterone, giving her female sex drive an aggressively male edge.

 

Ok, but what about the cock and balls? How does Sally fuck face to face wrapped around a guy fucking what he thinks is a woman’s vagina? Well that’s done with a brilliant piece of modern technology. By outward appearance it looks like a sexy corset. Like many corsets it has a cloth crotch strap that starts in the back, goes down between the butt cheeks, loops between the legs, runs up the front, and laces just above the tummy. And, like many corsets, the crotch strap has a slit cut in it so that intercourse can be performed without having to undo the strap. But unlike regular corsets, this crotch strap is specially designed to firmly tug the scrotum and penis upwards towards the belly button. Under the corset there is a second strap that secures the scrotum and penis against the belly. The front part of the corset where the crotch strap fastens is lined with thick foam pads that surround the cock and balls, eliminating any bulge. Attaching a feminine napkin to the inside of the crotch strap will prevent an ejaculation from soaking through the corset.

 

Try this guys – tug your scrotum up towards your belly button and use a mirror to look between your legs. What you will see will amaze you. The skin on the bottom side of your scrotum melds into the bottom of your butt crack and looks very much like vaginal labia. Now if that structure was under a crotch strap with a slit in it, what would appear through the slit would very closely resemble a woman’s vagina. And if you stuck your finger in the slit it would slide right up between the bottom lobes of your butt crack which, with proper lubrication, would feel like a vagina to someone who’s expecting a vagina. The illusion is so convincing that a man might even go down on her without knowing, although she never allows that risk to be taken.

 

Thus, when Sally is about to be fucked, she wraps her legs high up on the man’s back, raising them almost vertically. This puts her anus directly into the penis’s thrust line. So when he pushes in, the penis goes between the bottom butt lobes and travels about 1 inch to penetrate into the rectum. Just to assure a very astute fucker doesn’t notice the subtle differences, especially in tightness, she distracts him with very passionate French kissing throughout. Fucking in this position has the added advantage that the man’s thrusting grinds against her belly to belly, and therefore grinds against her cock, assisting in the induction of her own orgasm.

 

I have watched her ruse work at adult theaters, dogging sites, and at a swingers club that has “gangbang” nights. She always goes to venues with subdued lighting and frantic guys. She goes dogging at night, which even makes me a little uneasy. Never goes to a house party, or anywhere “high risk”. For Sally, “high risk” means high risk of getting “outed”. For her, a huge part of the excitement is being taken as an actual woman.

 

So, what do you think of this misrepresentation? My husband and I never blow her cover. We play along with the ruse. My very non-gay husband even fucks her on occasion to “break the ice” for the group. What do you think of us playing along with her ruse? I noticed in another thread many couples felt compelled to “out” a person with an STD. Does this moral compunction extend to outing a gurl? Should a sense of honesty outweigh loyalty to a friend? And if “body misrepresentation” is a moral issue, does this extend to women with breasts implants? Or men with cock rings?

[SW_PA_Couple 4,019]

Have no concern. Some day, some place, some guy is going to make a discovery and beat him/her to within in inch of his/her life.

[tribbles 490]

When I had on clothes and was just sucking guys, I've had a few reach to check that I really have a pussy. Or they just like to touch clit and finger while getting sucked?? ....I'm impressed she has not had that happen or had a guy decide not to go for it due to wanting that check.

 

Guys who don't know gurls looks like all kinds, from VS model to chubby GILF's might not check and some might not care.

 

I wouldn't out her....guys should do their own checking. Anyone who doesn't know it happens shouldn't be playing in those places.

[rainbowskye 102]

I wouldn't condone it. I wouldn't participate. At so some point in time one of these blokes will make the discovery and if it is someone who doesn't understand transgendered people and he snaps....he is going to hurt her severely. If he is very homophobic it could be worse.

[rainbowskye 102]

It should be about honesty not deception. Clearly you condone this level of deception not my cup of tea.

[slevin 1,374]

To try and equate lying about your gender with lying about your age is laughable.

 

I wouldn't be a party to that. When it comes to issues like this I think it's best to be up front about it. If she was my friend I would tell her that her actions make me uncomfortable. I'd make it clear that while I would not be complicit in her actions. I wouldn't lie or help her along. Not sure if I'd out her in groups that we participated in frequently or not. Having never been put in that kind of a position it's hard to tell what I'd do.

 

In my experience deceit always ends up blowing up for all involved.

[rainbowskye 102]

To try and equate lying about your gender with lying about your age is laughable.

 

I wouldn't be a party to that. When it comes to issues like this I think it's best to be up front about it. If she was my friend I would tell her that her actions make me uncomfortable. I'd make it clear that while I would not be complicit in her actions. I wouldn't lie or help her along. Not sure if I'd out her in groups that we participated in frequently or not. Having never been put in that kind of a position it's hard to tell what I'd do.

 

In my experience deceit always ends up blowing up for all involved.

 

I couldn't agree more. The comparisons are not on an equal level. regardless of she identifies she is still a he. I do understand the ts in some cases but until she is fully converted to a she...she is still a he. I don't know too many straight men who would enjoy being punked like this.

[tribbles 490]

adult theaters, dogging sites, and at a swingers club that has “gangbang” nights.

 

As long as none of them have a rule against gurls....it's not a house party where people talk first and even set up rules first.

 

It's 'fuck n go'. I admit I've only done gangbangs (and one would not allow a gurl) but I had a guy talk to me about an adult theater and I've read a bit about dogging. It's not like couples swinging at all....heck, if you don't wanna see the guys face, you never do. Just kneel and wait for dick to come over and over doggy style.

 

If a guy really doesn't want a gurl, he has to say so-or do his own check and move on... No reason given....

 

Same as with guys who ever touched another male...you don't wanna play with that guy...you gotta do the serious conversation thingy to make sure he understands. A gangbang or stranger fucking dogging hour is not meant for asking lots of questions....the guys either wanna stick it in a hole or they don't.

 

Galanga, I'm not sure most here will understand how different it is...I have a hint from a couple of the gangbangs I was at.

 

If there had been a gurl at one of them, there would be no way to 'out' that person simply cuz the sex moves so fast from 'he was fucking me, now he is fucking her, I was sucking him, she is sucking him' and damn if I know anyones name!!

 

Standing up and screaming it out and pointing it over and over really would not work...so folks...how the heck you gonna out 'em? Just killing the fuck 'em all mood, could get YOU beat for yelling "it's a BOY"....someone will jump to defend the 'lady'.

 

I will say if my DH figured it out, he would whisper it to me and I'd whisper it to someone else, if I had friends there, so they might check first but no one would stand up and scream it out.

[rainbowskye 102]

As long as none of them have a rule against gurls....it's not a house party where people talk first and even set up rules first.

 

It's 'fuck n go'. I admit I've only done gangbangs (and one would not allow a gurl) but I had a guy talk to me about an adult theater and I've read a bit about dogging. It's not like couples swinging at all....heck, if you don't wanna see the guys face, you never do. Just kneel and wait for dick to come over and over doggy style.

 

If a guy really doesn't want a gurl, he has to say so-or do his own check and move on... No reason given....

 

Same as with guys who ever touched another male...you don't wanna play with that guy...you gotta do the serious conversation thingy to make sure he understands. A gangbang or stranger fucking dogging hour is not meant for asking lots of questions....the guys either wanna stick it in a hole or they don't.

 

Galanga, I'm not sure most here will understand how different it is...I have a hint from a couple of the gangbangs I was at.

 

If there had been a gurl at one of them, there would be no way to 'out' that person simply cuz the sex moves so fast from 'he was fucking me, now he is fucking her, I was sucking him, she is sucking him' and damn if I know anyones name!!

 

Standing up and screaming it out and pointing it over and over really would not work...so folks...how the heck you gonna out 'em? Just killing the fuck 'em all mood, could get YOU beat for yelling "it's a BOY"....someone will jump to defend the 'lady'.

 

I will say if my DH figured it out, he would whisper it to me and I'd whisper it to someone else, if I had friends there, so they might check first but no one would stand up and scream it out.

 

I didn't see one person say they would out them. I saw ppl say the deception is wrong.

 

Did I miss something ? Are you over analyzing what was said?

[angelkin 1,326]

Ok, I am drunk...so if I offend anyone, please forgive this post. Who's to say the guys know the difference or care? I'd like to think that if I had a cock, I could tell if I was f*cking another man. Do they really care or is any hole good enough? Is she/he is as beautiful as described, does it matter to them?

 

Personally, live and let live so long as nobody is getting hurt - physically or otherwise. I would NOT out her/him. BUT, I would also not let she/he hang out with us. Not our cup of tea.

[junglecouple 127]

"The only masculine feature she has is a penis and testicles."

 

Pretty funny statement right there!

[lotsoffun201 175]

Galanga....I have loved reading your posts and admire your sexuality and principles. With this situation, I have to disagree. I think this is a potentially dangerous thing to be condoning and would be prepared if it goes wrong. I think most of us would agree that honesty is the best policy, and this is actually dishonest.

 

I realize this is done in the dark, and to date nobody has been wiser, but if someone does things could go VERY bad very quickly.

 

I am sure your friend is very passable and in fact quite beautiful, but that is not the point here now is it? I know of a few male friends who were "surprised" in the past and they didn't take too kindly to it.

[tribbles 490]

Are you over analyzing what was said?

 

Maybe. I'm good at that.

[Galanga 249]

Thank you all for your input. What I’m surprised about is the rather large number of people that think violence is an answer to such deception. Perhaps in the conventional swinger community that may be true. But in the adult theater/dogging community it isn’t. She is actually in no danger of being beat up if exposed (no pun intended), and in fact would probably receive accolades for her female prowess. Let me explain why.

 

At an adult theater no is there to watch the movie. That has always been the case, and is especially true in our modern days of the internet and DVD. Literally everyone in an adult theater (or at a dogging site) is there for sex. At a typical adult theater on any given day there are about 30-40 men and no women. A woman at an adult theater is so rare that the chance of one being there on any arbitrary day is zero. Yet men go there. Why? About 20% of the men are gay or bi. The other 80% are straight men enacting what called “being on the down low”. The “down low” is when a straight man is so desperate for sexual gratification that he’s willing to accept said gratification (usually a blowjob) from a gay man. Adult theaters are great for that because the darkness allows for him to watch the girls on the screen and “forget” about the gender of what’s blowing him.

 

Every once in a while a shemale or transsexual will show up. And, as you could imagine, she will be uber popular with the straight men. These guys clamber for a few minutes with the shemale. In fact, they will even feel they hit that jackpot if approached by a bad cross-dresser. So they will certainly NOT be offended by a shemale who is so feminine, and so sexy, and so over-the-top convincing that they actually thought she was a woman. I’ve been at adult theaters many times when shemales were there and none of them announced to the crowd any disclaimer about not being born female.

 

The swingers club Sally goes to is “bi-friendly” on gangbang nights, and there are other transsexuals there. So again, it is highly unlikely that a guy there will beat up a shemale because she’s too female.

 

That said, Sally did tell me about her past, and how she was the target of bullying and violence … but never by men who wanted sex. These were her high-school days when she was trying to hide her sexual proclivities. She got beat up for being a gay male, not for being a shemale.

 

Sleven … on a finer note – she’s not lying about her gender. Her gender is transsexual. She never says she’s not. I would say If she came right out and said “I was born with female sex organs”, that would be a lie. However, not saying anything and allowing herself to be assumed female is not a lie. On the other hand I know a lot of women that lie about their sexuality at swingers club, pretending to be bisexual when they’re really not. It’s all done for fun.

[slevin 1,374]

A lie by omission is still a lie.

 

Also, I don't think anyone was advocating violence towards her. The posts just seem to be advising that based on their experience it was a likely outcome. As you said, there are different situations at play in the dogging and adult theatre venues that may mean there is less of a chance of violence. I certainly hope no one here would condone violence no matter the situation.

[lotsoffun201 175]

Agreed....nobody is condoning violence, just pointing out that it could potentially occur and we as valued members of this community would fear for her safety as well as yours. Simply, that is all we are stating.

 

I personally know several transexuals who function as a women and attend various sorts of parties and venues. Some transexuals (likely including your friend) are extremely passable and in fact even more attractive than most women.

 

I would have to agree with Galanga, that a theater venue would be relpeat with gay or bi males who would not care how they got off so in that respect, I stand corrected. I do, however, still disagree with not telling the truth.

[tribbles 490]

Has anyone asked her "are you female"

 

Does she respond with I'm transgendered?

[km34 672]

I agree that I would NOT play along, I would NOT play with her, and I would NOT encourage her to continue lying. She is representing herself as a biological female, which to me is a lie. To others, it may not be since she identifies as female gender-wise.

 

I just don't do "misrepresenting" of anything when it comes to sex. Complete honesty or nothing for me. I don't see myself ever attending anything even closely approaching "fuck and go" type things like the dogging sites and theaters because I just can't do the secretiveness. To me, I would ALWAYS feel like I am helping people cheat if having at least a 2 minute conversation to establish a bit of of history isn't a part of the plan since there is no interaction to see how they act during conversation.

[rainbowskye 102]

I don't see anyone promoting violence. Again something that was over analyzed.

 

That is deception that if someone found out and was homophobic they wouldn't be like oh well they would be full of anger and rage and when someone gets to that point violence does come out.

 

It is something that if you are going to be naive enough to think nobody will ever know then you should have enough common sense to prepare for the worst.

 

Having frequented many gay clubs in Atlanta I've had the pleasure of knowing many Ts men and women. One woman, and I still style her hair to this day, has told me how when men would ask her out and she would be upfront that she was still a he and they would have rage that was out of control. So yes, I see this eventually blowing up in someone's face and not in a good way.

 

Perhaps you too aren't looking at all angles of what could happen because you condone it.

 

This type of deception is much different than someone saying they are 35 instead if 40. This crosses boundaries for men who may not be willing to cross these boundaries If they knew they truth.

 

Condoning this in this manor and participating in the deception is not something id be willing to do.

 

It is out of respect for others and for moral reasons that i would not.

 

I asked my Ts friend about this and she stated that she would not do this nor be a part of it due to the reaction of the victims being unpredictable.

 

Many in the glbt communities have experienced so much violence already in their lifetime to allow the younger generations to simply be who they are openly. This is just a bitch slap in the face to those who endoured the struggles to make it happen.

[rainbowskye 102]

Galanga ....

 

Have you seen the movie Boys don't cry? Perhaps you and your friend should watch this.

[Galanga 249]

Rainbow - I did not see the movie but I'm familiar with the real-life story behind it. In that case it was the opposite (a woman trying to pass herself off as a man). I don't know how the movie followed the story, but in the real life story he (she) dated one of the local teenage girls, who eventually discovered he was a she. The surprising thing about it was that the girl didn't react negatively, and was even willing to carry on a relationship with the transsexual she fell in love with. The violence that killed the TS was perpetrated by two men, one of whom was rejected by the teen girl. But yes, your reference to that story is a fitting one.

 

Doubtless there are folks who would react violently to a gurl. But there are also men who react violently to actual woman who cheat on them, steal from them, or deceive them in other ways. A violent man is going to violent under any of a number of situations.

[rainbowskye 102]

It is the doubt that just bc this is a 'girl' that a mN wouldn't react violently that is naive . There are men every day who beat the living shit out if women. How do you guys know she isn't messing with one of them .

 

Or what if a guy uncovers it and doesn't care but someone else that was with her previously is there when it is uncovered and snaps?

 

I limit my chances at all cost if being in the cross fire. I've lived a colorful life and have seen all types of things go down in various sexual worlds ....and this is something id have no desire to condone as the after math could vicious.

 

You can't assume how others will or won't react to do so only increases the risk.

 

You say she has sex with them face to face....what if they see her at a singers club and it is revealed? There is no way to predict it won't be uncovered nor to predict someone's reaction. I pray when it is uncovered that the victim doesn't have anger issues.

 

Everything in the dark comes to the light ....everything. It is a matter of time.

[slevin 1,374]

This is also a very odd version of an old philosophical discussion:

 

If you went to the Louvre, looked at the Mona Lisa and had an amazing experience. Would it change your experience if you found out later the Mona Lisa you saw was fake? Was the experience you had real even though the painting was fake? Does knowing it was fake later change the meaning of that experience?

[justifiedcouple 15]

I personally do not think that what your friend is doing is ok, but the situation does raise interesting questions, as slevin recognizes. Slevin's post reminds me of the movie quote "everything in this world, including money, operates not on reality...but the perception of reality."

 

Still, there are many men in this world that would have a SERIOUS problem knowing they had sex with a man.

[two4youinswva 3,067]

Since we don't go to adult theaters, and honestly we thought they all disappeared back in the early 1980's, I guess we'll never have to face this conundrum. Since we've never been to this type of venue, we can't comment on what the protocol and expectations of others are. It sounds very free for all though, so I would say it's a case of "Don't be surprised by anything that happens".

 

As for the term "Shemale": Our gay friends that are in the know have told us that "Shemale" is considered a derogatory term by the transgendered, and that generally they prefer the term "T Girl".

[Galanga 249]

Slevin - I remember watching an interview with one of the members of the rock band the Moody Blues (like 30 years ago) and he was talking about how people listen to the lyrics of his songs and read into them meanings that they need in their own lives. He was saying that people write to him and thank him for his "guidance" through difficult problems. He went on to say that none of his songs have any real meaning, but the words are chosen only because they sound good with the melody and rhyme with each other. He said that's why he wrote the song "I'm Just a Singer in a Rock and Roll Band", his way of disclaiming "depth" in the lyrics. Does that nullify all the "guidance" people took from the lyrics?

 

Two4You - thank you for the correction on terminology. She doesn't seem to mind "shemale", but I'd rather use the proper word anyway.

[Chicup 38]

Note to self, always check for a clit.

[rainbowskye 102]

I've not seen any adult theatres in ages. The last in I knew of was in Santiago Chile. That was the last one I saw and that was in 96.

 

Here in Atlanta I know we have jerk bars but that's about it. at least that I know of.

 

We do have a gay bar that was involved in a raid due to on premise sex happening inside and outside of the club and the hipsters in the area made a big fuss to the mayor thus leading into a raid followed by a lawsuit followed by city employees losing their jobs for following the directive of the then police chief.

[rainbowskye 102]

I meant to add...the gay bar serves its purpose as an adult theater or it did prior to the raid.

[Chicup 38]

 

We do have a gay bar that was involved in a raid due to on premise sex happening inside and outside of the club and the hipsters in the area made a big fuss to the mayor thus leading into a raid followed by a lawsuit followed by city employees losing their jobs for following the directive of the then police chief.

 

Let me guess, the hipsters went to the gay bar for the ironic factor and complained about the sexual nature of the place?

[rainbowskye 102]

Not exactly ....they complained that you could see them in the back of the building outside having g sex ruining the view from their over priced apartments. And they complained that you could see them doing the same from the krispy kreme across the street.

 

Where this place is at is in our midtown area and this end of the street is where all the dealers and workers are. Yet they did not complain about that.

[MN Tom 251]

Hmm.

 

I'd be with most of the other posters here. If she wants to continue doing this, fine. If she feels safe, go for it.

 

I wouldn't want to support it though, mainly because I would feel really bad if something did go wrong. That can be said about anything in life though, although this is a bit riskier than "regular life" so to speak.

 

Maybe she will never have violence happen, maybe not. I sure hope not.

 

But again, my viewpoint is probably slanted because I've never seen one of these types of locations, I'm not interested in sex of that sort, and I don't know many people who are. So it's not my crowd, and thus I'm unfamiliar with how the scene works.

[latin2012 22]

I am not here to preach since i like the swing life BUT this type of deception can be very dangerous not only to HIM but you and your wife as well. There are many guys out there that when they find out will be very angry. I find nothing amusing about this story but a tragedy waiting to happen.