Are we swinging?

[jovichick 15]

Snapps - while I certainly would urge caution in this scenario, you made some leaps in your post that, while absolutely possible, are not the certainty that you paint.

 

From what psycdr and jovichick have written it is certainly prudent to draw their attention to potential pitfalls, but we in no way have enough information of direction knowledge of them to make such conclusions. In fact, I have often read psychologist and psychiatrist draw similar conclusion about lifestylers in general, which is ludicrous. No offense to psycdr, but it drives me nuts because they draw such sweeping generalities from little or no direct information. People and life's situations are just not so black and white or cut and dried.

 

Is it swinging? It is certainly not how we swing and not how the vast majority swing from what I can see. But as I think I said initially, what difference does it make what you call it if both parties are on board and having fun. It appears that they are on the same page at this point. And if you think about it, even if 99% of swingers don't swing this way, 99% of society doesn't swing at all. So maybe they are on the fringe of the fringe, but as long as they have a solid relationship, it is up to them how they do it.

 

psycdr and jovichick - with all that said, I would still urge caution. Swinging, or whatever anyone wants to call it, like you two are is full of pitfalls. Look at swinging as an extreme indoor sport, the more extreme you go the more precautions you need to take in order to come out the other end in one piece. Make sure you do your safety checks frequently and completely so that your relationship doesn't end up FUBAR.

 

Thanks for the reply. We check in with each often, at least 2-3 times per week. Psychdr and I agree that we probably don't fit the conventional ( ha that is kind of funny) definition of swinging. More of an open marriage. However, we definitely want to have a shared experience and I am sure that has many levels. Again we came to this site looking for some directions. All of the posts have stirred conversation and allowed us to set new limits/rules. Still exploring, but we enjoy the late talks and great sex.

[snapps 78]

Dear Snapps,

 

This is the wife of psychdr. I have been thinking of how to respond to you. I didn't want to come off as defensive, but I am sure some of this will appear that way. One positive thing I can say about your post is that it did make for ongoing conversation, questions, and review of the rules.

 

I can assure you my husband does not have a self-esteem issue. It is my belief that in order to engage in an alternative life style, one would have to have good self-esteem in themselves and confidence in their marriage. I guess I need to go back to the beginning. My husband joined this forum because it was there and seemed like a good place to start. The idea of us having an "open marriage" started 7 years ago. I was very nervous about the idea. However, through many conversations, my husband felt brave enough to share his fantasy of me being with another man. So we had fun with the internet, and verbal scenarios during sex, and then finally I felt confident enough to try it. Even with that we took baby steps.

 

As for my co-worker, we probably see each at work maybe twice a week. We text occasionally, but usually about work. The times we hook up have become less; we go through spurts.

 

The one comment you made that was disturbing to me was being a possession to him and my husband. That is an archaic mind set. I belong to me. This experience is totally about fulfilling a desire outside the box. I have brought home video, audio, and hot stories to share. He (co-worker) has stayed committed to the rules, never asked me to break them or do anything behind my husbands back. He does not ask for anything outside the scope of the arrangement.

 

We may not fit neatly into the swinging box, but I am not sure why that matters. Anyone on this board is living outside the conventional system of marriage. Not sure how you can sit in judgment of us, when you are doing the same thing.

 

Here is where I get defensive. How dare you accuse me of playing my husband for a fool? Doing things behind his back? You are blatantly calling me a liar. Pardon me, but you have no idea who I am. I am 100% committed to my husband. Yes there have been speed bumps, but it would be hard to imagine that anyone who engages in this wouldn't experience them. I feel those speed bumps only enhance our relationship because it forces conversations.

 

As far as what my husband gets out of this: Well, he already answered that. I try to incorporate him as much as possible. We continue to look for a playmate for my husband, however this has been difficult. We look forward to the next step, whatever that may be.

 

I am completely satisfied with my husband sexually. He gives the best oral ever, as well as great intercourse. Being with my husband is totally different; we have been together for 15 years so there is a commitment there and a connection that no one can replace. You again are accusing me without knowing me.

 

I could go on, but I feel I said my piece. I wish you the best of luck in repairing your marriage. As a family therapist, people usually stray because there is something the other feels is absent or lacking.

 

Hello ma'am,

 

Once again, nothing was meant as a direct insult to either you or your husband, I do not know you guys enough to do such a thing. I am simply going off the posts, and this thread that you guys have made.

 

Nothing I said was meant to be offensive to either of you guys, and was all meant to let/help you guys think and to force conversations on both your parts because I felt you both jumped blindly into what ya'll were doing without putting much thought into it. It’s never a good idea to bring a situation like this into the work place, and as a social worker, and a psychologist, I would think this would go without saying on both of yall’s parts.

 

Again, if it’s working for ya’ll, who am I to say differently? However if I don’t agree with it (and I don’t!), I'm going to share my thoughts and give you my feedback and concerns, and reasons for feeling the way that I do about it. After all, isn’t this why you guys decided to post on this forum, to get agreeable/disagreeable feedback? It’s no reason for any of ya’ll to feel like I am directly attacking you, or insulting you, even though I can see why you would take it like that.

 

Whatever the case, I've already expressed my concerns on this situation. I still don't agree with it, and still think ya'll are playing with fire. But again who am I to say whether or not this will work for ya’ll? After all, I’m just speaking from my own experience with such a similar situation. Again, I meant no disrespect to any of ya’ll, I just don’t agree with what you guys are doing. I don’t think it’s possible for you to honestly sit here and claim that you have absolutely no feelings for this person after so long…. We are all humans, and as humans we can’t control the heart and emotions, especially when things become blurred. That’s all I’m going to say. So please carry on, and good luck to both of you guys. I think I’ve said enough to help get my point across and to show exactly where I stand on your situation.

[Lascivious L&L 865]

Snapps, you obviously don't understand how you sound to others. If I were jovichick or psycdr I would have been less delicate than they have been replying to you.

 

Snapps, your experiences are yours and unique to your situation. Jovichick and psycdr have a situation all their own and very clearly different from yours. They have demonstrated an excellent level of communication, essential to any strong relationship. They have taken this very slowly, perhaps we might say painfully slowly, but in no way have they jumped into this. Their caution has been exemplary.

 

You insinuated that psycdr's manhood and self esteem were suffering. That's a complete projection on your part from your experiences. From reading both jovichick's and pyscdr's writings I come to the exact opposite conclusion. They both have healthy self esteems and psycdr's manhood is in no way in question.

 

To me it's obvious that jovichick's desire for someone she feels comfortable with trumps concerns about the workplace. Are there risks? Sure. There is risk in stepping outside on a sunny day, or even staying in bed. Living life without taking risks isn't living. Being aware of the risks and how you deal with them is what determines whether risks are acceptable.

 

The is it swinging issue is silly. There are two people in a relationship who are exploring sexually outside the relationship with full knowledge and support of both. What's not swinging about that? Why is the fact that only one has actually had sex outside the relationship so far such a threatening issue? Many times in this forum have members urged baby steps, to go no faster than those involved are comfortable with. This is exactly that.

 

I know well the intense excitement that results from your wife having sex with another man. It's not about whether it's exactly equal sexually. That's not an issue in the thrill, the excitement, the pleasure. If you don't understand that thrill, fine. Plenty of others do. I think it takes great self esteem, confidence in the relationship and real manhood to appreciate this particular thrill.

 

I feel that snapps has leapt to judgments uncalled for and issued warnings that speak more to his own personality than to the postings by psycdr and jovichick.

[Alura 2,766]

... issued warnings that speak more to his own personality than to the postings ...

 

When it comes right down to it, is it possible for any of us to do otherwise? Aren't all our posts based on our own experiences and our interpretation of them?

[Coupleerotic22 1,417]

When it comes right down to it, is it possible for any of us to do otherwise? Aren't all our posts based on our own experiences and our interpretation of them?

 

Alura

 

Alura, I have to agree with Lascivious L&L on this one. SHOCK!!! (Someone hand the devil a winter coat to keep warm).

 

All kidding aside, while our experiences certainly color our view of things, we cannot overlay our experiences on top of other people's situation and draw definitive conclusions, which is what I think snapps was doing. He was certainly questioning psycdr's mental health.

 

I often urge caution in situations that have worked out well for us, but I realize that might not be the case for everyone. In fact, I am often at odds at some of the cautionary advice given based on our experience, but certainly understand that there are pitfalls and that urging caution to other is prudent.

[snapps 78]

no updates huh... hmmmmm

[Just Passing By 140]

Belatedly stumbling in...

 

Human relationships and sexuality are on an endless continuum, and "categories" be fluid, and semantics subjective. That said, in addition to Psychdr's also looking for play partner, a substantial percentage would include "Hot Wife" itself to fall under at least the broad umbrella of Swinging. For that matter the Board has a section to Poly and Open marriage issues.

 

Now the Psychdr & Jovichick situation certainly isn't typical of Board members, and thereby presumably also not typical mainstream swingers generally. And the progression is rather in "alternative sequence" to typical paths, but hey. They certainly discussed, communicate, and report mutual enjoyment.

 

For the record co-workers are indeed a poor choice. Poor choice does not automatically equate to guaranteed disaster, but the potential pitfalls are extensive. They tell us that in their particular situation many of them are mitigated, could be, but in general still to avoided.

 

With each one supporting the activities/attempted activities of the other, and with their posted others activities to eventually pursue, it seems to point to giving active consideration to exploring activities together ALSO, be it couples, FMF, or whatever. Certain settings are appealing, but once again there is an infinite range of possibilities.

[psycdr 64]

no updates huh... hmmmmm

 

Snapps, you seem obsessed about our status and I question why. Are you hoping we fail so you can justify your experiences? Will having us fail make you feel better about what happened with you and your wife? The last post prior to your most recent one was in June 2011, which means you had to go looking for this message and that you must think about what is happening between my wife and I quite frequently. Do you lay in bed and think about our status? I hope not.

 

As for as my wife and I, we are still happily married and she still has her boy toy. It's actually been one year now that she has been fucking him. I have not had the opportunity to hook up with someone, but I also have been extremely busy with work. We both keep saying we want to go to a club (as in a swinger club) but life and kids get in the way of scheduling it.

 

Overall we are BOTH having fun and do NOT regret our decision and most importantly we love each other immensely.

 

Thanks for asking...

[jovichick 15]

Snapps,

 

Well I am here to report that I am still in love with my husband, and actually feel more intense about our relationship when I realize how lucky I am to be able to have the sexual experience with my boy toy. We have our ups and downs, as most people do. But, know my husband is my rock, and have no need to seek that elsewhere. My boy toy serves as an escape from being 39, a mom, etc...