I feel the friendship is gone...and the guy used my wife

[Swing*8701 885]

Susan here---Okay. Your wife behaved as she would always behave in that situation. You should not be surprised at what she did.

 

The guy behaved as he would always behave in that situation. You should not be surprised at what he did. Oh, he's probably a real 'piece of work' too.

 

The only surprise is that you expected your wife, or this guy, to behave contrary to who they are. The only thing for you to do is accept it, move past it and realize that if your wife goes solo to a swing party she is going to fuck. She is going to fuck without much thought as to how you feel about it, because how you feel about it will never enter her mind. And just so we're clear here, as far as the sex goes: She loved it, he loved it and there is no way you'll recover parity from this moment, and if you are smart, you will not try to. It will only make things worse and escalate matters.

[Newpants 21]

This is not directed towards anything specific in this situation, this is just a little soapbox sermon from my own twisted mind and is intended to simply be some food for thought for Jason or anyone else that is bored enough to read this.

 

A fun night or two of casual, safe, consensual sex never hurt anyone. Where pain, frustration, drama, hurt feelings, jealousy etc etc comes from is relationships and the pursuit of relationships. As humans we innately seek connections but in the swinging realm, people are rarely hurt by meeting someone and having a sexual encounter and then walking away.

 

The hurt comes from trying to establish an ongoing relationship and then "investing" a lot of emotional time and energy into that relationship and then having that investment not be returned.

 

In my personal opinion you were not hurt by your wife and this guy banging one out, people have sex all the time in the lifestyle. You were hurt because you had placed a very high degree of emotional investment into this relationship and in the end your investment was not returned. You felt like you adhered to your end of the bargain and were sincere in your obligations but felt betrayed by others that you felt did not invest into the relationship to your standards and expectations.

 

You felt your level of commitment was not returned. Everyone agreed to the rules and while you continued to be committed to them, everyone else wandered off into other greener pastures once it wasn't fun for them anymore.

 

I've read a few people's accounts on this website that they have had successfull exclusive or near-exclusive relationships for a year or more but I believe those to be a tiny minority. Of all the people that I have known in person that either had an exclusive relationship or at least a relationship with a lot of emotional investment ALL of them have ended with drama and hurt feelings and a few have even ended up with some significant damage to their marriages. Most of them have also either left the lifestyle completely or at least were quite soured on the lifestyle and completely off the market for an extended period of time.

 

I am not knocking anyone's preferences or practices. I am just sharing what I have seen with my own eyes several times in a row without exception.

 

IMHO opinion people think they can avoid the dangers and pitfalls of sexuality if they enter into significant quasi-mongamous relationships with other couples, but the reality is that in swinging the dangers and pitfalls are not the sex but the relationships.

 

Again, this is just my personal opinion and you can do with it what you want but it may be something to consider.

[NH603 38]

Susan here---Okay. Your wife behaved as she would always behave in that situation. You should not be surprised at what she did.

 

The guy behaved as he would always behave in that situation. You should not be surprised at what he did. Oh, he's probably a real 'piece of work' too.

 

The only surprise is that you expected your wife, or this guy, to behave contrary to who they are. The only thing for you to do is accept it, move past it and realize that if your wife goes solo to a swing party she is going to fuck. She is going to fuck without much thought as to how you feel about it, because how you feel about it will never enter her mind. And just so we're clear here, as far as the sex goes: She loved it, he loved it and there is no way you'll recover parity from this moment, and if you are smart, you will not try to. It will only make things worse and escalate matters.

 

Susan...

First, how do you know my name?

Second, it wasnt a swing party.

Third, I had told her the friendship was over, I didnt like how they treated us. I didnt like how they ignored us... wrong for me to assume the sex would be out too?

 

I actually now recall telling her a few months back that I didnt want to swing with them any more. But promises and commitments just seemed to vanish.

[sexcupid 809]

Susan...First, how do you know my name?

 

Probably from this post that you made a few hours before she posted:

 

I appreciate all the help here. I think we can all just agree it is a crappy situation. Lesson learned, life will go on.

 

Thanks!

Jason

 

Also...not to keep beating the dead horse:

Being the martyr in the situation (I followed the rules to a T/I am perfect/I always knew something was wrong with everyone else/so on/so forth) is going to make it hard for your wife to empathize with you after a time...right now she knows she's hurt you and is probably willing to be demonized for a bit because she feels you deserve to do it...but like all parties who have done "wrong", there will come a time when she will probably tell you to get the hell over it. It happened, everyone fucked up in their own way with this situation, time to move on. Being the martyr is emotionally draining...it is hard to maintain perfection after all.

 

You stated earlier that they never called...never wanted to hang out and do friend things (dinner/movie/whatever)...did you ever call them to make plans or was the ball always in their court. Friendship is a two way street...but there are levels of friendship...I have people that I call friends that *gasp* I only talk to a handful of times a year. Some friendships are more superficial than others, but they are all still friends. And if this was your wife's and the other couple's view point on the friendship between you and not your's...why didn't you A. try to rectify the situation much earlier in the game or B. not try to see the friendship as the other 3 people did?

[sweet_tna 680]

Newpants hit the nail on the head. You were exclusive sexually with the other couple and your hurt is coming from the diminished returns of the investment you made in that relationship.

 

Like Maria stated, I too, have different levels of friendship. There are the friends that I call/chat with on an almost daily basis and see frequently on a vanilla basis, and then there are the friends with whom we just hook up occasionally. We don't get involved in each others' daily lives overmuch.

 

If you need that exclusivity/committed friendship to feel comfortable swinging, you're going to have a much tougher time finding another couple to fill that need. If you are able to let go of that and just enjoy a night of hot sex here and there without a major commitment, then you'll probably have a lot more fun. Probably.

[NH603 38]

Probably from this post that you made a few hours before she posted:

 

 

 

Also...not to keep beating the dead horse:

Being the martyr in the situation (I followed the rules to a T/I am perfect/I always knew something was wrong with everyone else/so on/so forth) is going to make it hard for your wife to empathize with you after a time...right now she knows she's hurt you and is probably willing to be demonized for a bit because she feels you deserve to do it...but like all parties who have done "wrong", there will come a time when she will probably tell you to get the hell over it. It happened, everyone fucked up in their own way with this situation, time to move on. Being the martyr is emotionally draining...it is hard to maintain perfection after all.

 

You stated earlier that they never called...never wanted to hang out and do friend things (dinner/movie/whatever)...did you ever call them to make plans or was the ball always in their court. Friendship is a two way street...but there are levels of friendship...I have people that I call friends that *gasp* I only talk to a handful of times a year. Some friendships are more superficial than others, but they are all still friends. And if this was your wife's and the other couple's view point on the friendship between you and not your's...why didn't you A. try to rectify the situation much earlier in the game or B. not try to see the friendship as the other 3 people did?

 

Yea, it is a bit of a dead horse me explaining over and over here. It just seems like anyone who make a different point has a reason founded in the original problem.

 

Call them? At least twice a month, especially early on. Over the past few months, not so much. We got the hint.

 

The wife and I have very few local friends due to having to move so many times over the past 2 years. She clings to anyone that says hello. It isnt a matter of her thinking different about them, it is a matter of her wanting friends and being a bit desperate.

[NH603 38]

Newpants hit the nail on the head. You were exclusive sexually with the other couple and your hurt is coming from the diminished returns of the investment you made in that relationship.

 

Like Maria stated, I too, have different levels of friendship. There are the friends that I call/chat with on an almost daily basis and see frequently on a vanilla basis, and then there are the friends with whom we just hook up occasionally. We don't get involved in each others' daily lives overmuch.

 

If you need that exclusivity/committed friendship to feel comfortable swinging, you're going to have a much tougher time finding another couple to fill that need. If you are able to let go of that and just enjoy a night of hot sex here and there without a major commitment, then you'll probably have a lot more fun. Probably.

 

Hey to each there own. If there is a exclusive situation and it goes astray after a while, so be it. But I would be again a dead horse if I explain why I felt hurt. I do feel hurt after not getting the emotions returned, especially where I see his POV. My suspicions all along were correct about him and how he viewed things.

 

I just cant hook up with someone who doesnt even want to see us for almost a year.

[sweet_tna 680]

Hey to each there own. If there is a exclusive situation and it goes astray after a while, so be it. But I would be again a dead horse if I explain why I felt hurt. I do feel hurt after not getting the emotions returned, especially where I see his POV. My suspicions all along were correct about him and how he viewed things.

 

I just cant hook up with someone who doesnt even want to see us for almost a year.

 

No, I get WHY you're hurt. You were close friends and sexually exclusive with this couple. They dropped you like a hot potato and started seeing other folks. You feel rejected by that, and cannot overcome the hurt enough to trust them/want to play all of a sudden. They obviously felt differently, as did your wife. Whether she was desperate for friendship,or just sees things more like they did, she played with him.

 

But here's the thing. Most folks in the lifestyle do not take friendships with playmates that seriously. I say, "most," because I have some very close friends in the lifestyle, some of whom I'd consider best friends. And yes, I've even been deeply hurt by one of them. Obviously, I wasn't that keen on playing with that person until that situation got resolved.

 

Would I have been upset if my hubby played with the wife before things were patched up? No. There are a few reasons that don't apply to this thread. But the one that does apply is that unless I told my honey I had any specific objections, he'd be free to do as he wished. And he wouldn't attend any party solo without my blessing. I would not have any expectations for former playmates/friends to do anything but respect my honey's wishes/objections. (Which applies to all playmates)

[NH603 38]

No, I get WHY you're hurt. You were close friends and sexually exclusive with this couple. They dropped you like a hot potato and started seeing other folks. You feel rejected by that, and cannot overcome the hurt enough to trust them/want to play all of a sudden. They obviously felt differently, as did your wife. Whether she was desperate for friendship,or just sees things more like they did, she played with him.

 

But here's the thing. Most folks in the lifestyle do not take friendships with playmates that seriously. I say, "most," because I have some very close friends in the lifestyle, some of whom I'd consider best friends. And yes, I've even been deeply hurt by one of them. Obviously, I wasn't that keen on playing with that person until that situation got resolved.

 

Would I have been upset if my hubby played with the wife before things were patched up? No. There are a few reasons that don't apply to this thread. But the one that does apply is that unless I told my honey I had any specific objections, he'd be free to do as he wished. And he wouldn't attend any party solo without my blessing. I would not have any expectations for former playmates/friends to do anything but respect my honey's wishes/objections. (Which applies to all playmates)

 

I hear you... Bottom line I need to move on and I am. Many of my feeling were justified here and reinforced, which helps a lot. Opinions about what should have been said/done at some point are life lessons.

[it'sso 198]

If this is the only couple that you and your wife have swung with, then perhaps you should consider going elsewhere. If it isn't and you experienced similar issues with others, perhaps you would be better off not swinging at all.

The latter was the choice my wife and I made after experiencing similar issues years ago.

The primary difference was that my wife chose to not go without my accompanying her.

Clearly not all of us have what is desirable for swinging.

moo

[Swing*8701 885]

Susan here---Okay. Your wife behaved as she would always behave in that situation. You should not be surprised at what she did.

 

The guy behaved as he would always behave in that situation. You should not be surprised at what he did. Oh, he's probably a real 'piece of work' too.

 

The only surprise is that you expected your wife, or this guy, to behave contrary to who they are. The only thing for you to do is accept it, move past it and realize that if your wife goes solo to a swing party she is going to fuck. She is going to fuck without much thought as to how you feel about it, because how you feel about it will never enter her mind. And just so we're clear here, as far as the sex goes: She loved it, he loved it and there is no way you'll recover parity from this moment, and if you are smart, you will not try to. It will only make things worse and escalate matters.

 

Okay, I fracked up about the party being a swing party, yet the rest holds.

And, on the topic of self delusional, I never mentioned your name. So, I guess we're 'even' with not reading things correctly. If your name is 'parity' or 'elevated' or 'piece of work' or 'she loved it', my apologies.

 

She did exactly what she wanted to do and so did he. Don't blame him, 'sex' was the question and 'yes' was their answer.

 

Yeah, it sucks. Stop crying about it. Sex is really powerful and any time people think it's not, crap like you're going through happens. The best thing to do is forgive her and move on. I do know this, if I did anything like this to my husband, which I never would, after I'd apologized once, the topic would be over. Then again, in four years of Swinging, neither of us has ever had to apologize for our actions. Sheesh. I realize you're looking for help and understanding, but the best thing I can tell you to do is 'man up' , move on or perhaps quit Swinging if the slightest 'bloody nose' from sexual exploration causes this much personal damage for you.

[NH603 38]

Okay, I fracked up about the party being a swing party, yet the rest holds.

And, on the topic of self delusional, I never mentioned your name. So, I guess we're 'even' with not reading things correctly. If your name is 'parity' or 'elevated' or 'piece of work' or 'she loved it', my apologies.

 

She did exactly what she wanted to do and so did he. Don't blame him, 'sex' was the question and 'yes' was their answer.

 

Yeah, it sucks. Stop crying about it. Sex is really powerful and any time people think it's not, crap like you're going through happens. The best thing to do is forgive her and move on. I do know this, if I did anything like this to my husband, which I never would, after I'd apologized once, the topic would be over. Then again, in four years of Swinging, neither of us has ever had to apologize for our actions. Sheesh. I realize you're looking for help and understanding, but the best thing I can tell you to do is 'man up' , move on or perhaps quit Swinging if the slightest 'bloody nose' from sexual exploration causes this much personal damage for you.

 

Agreed. I have mentioned several times that my wife and I are ok and I am moving on. People keep posting questions and follow ups.

 

 

To clarify, I am moving on everyone!

[richdon03 31]

100 % exclusive, and they were the ones to suggest it & we welcomed it. I doubt she went there to talk to them about it. My wife doesnt exactly view the friendship the same way I do. She thinks they are good friends even though they ignore us because they are "cool" when together and very friendly.

 

I'm certainly no expert in this field,but this seems to be the crux of the issue. It seems reasonable to me that, if she still felt that they were still close friends, she immediately felt a sense of comfort and the familiar desire that she remembered from the past. Add a little alcohol to the mix and, poof! This explains why my wife is opposed to FWB, and prefers random hook-ups.

[bi4me2 93]

Well we are a little late to this topic but this would have bothered both of us too. When we first decided to get into the lifestyle it was 'us' as a team. Each of us could do whatever as long as it was 'us' doing it.

 

Now to go off on your own and fuck someone else? That would (hate to say it) be a show stopper.

 

Swinging is about trust but there are also those boundaries that are set up between the couple and to cross those boundaries after so much trust has been given to each other has to hurt.

 

I know I would be besides myself if she went out and fucked some guy behind my back when she knows she can fuck whomever she wants while I'm with her.

 

No brilliant advice for you because I don't know how I would react to her doing this. My only advice would be to talk to her and see why it happened. Now as far as the other couple not wanting to be with you guys as a couple but him wanting to fuck her? I have to question that big time.