Dealing with Racism when selecting couples to interact with.

[JoCoCpl 99]

Unregistered said:

*snip*

This whole lifestyle is about who and what we find sexy and attractive. This is such taboo subject matter in our society but so is swinging. Although for all (or most) of us this is about finding something that we find sexy, appealing, or a fantasy: if it people select their playmates based on height, weight, age, dick size, tit size, body hair, bald men, facial hair, dental health/hygiene, tattoos, piercings, smoking preferences, etc...

 

Why is it so hard to believe that people base attraction on race as well?!

 

I don't find it hard to believe at all that many in the lifestyle have race preferences. I just think that many people don't want to say that it is part of their preferences for fear of being labeled "racist" or for fear of offending others. Let's be honest, racism is a hot-button topic in our society. In the lifestyle, people tend to understand the thoughts behind most of the preferences you list (whether they are "OK" with such thoughts or not). Race is a whole different story.

 

Some will understand completely that it's just a preference for sexual interaction on the part of your wife - nothing more, nothing less. Others would inevitably generalize it and project a negative image (whether true or not) that the "racism" extends to all aspects of your wife's thought processes. That's human nature.

 

It's a tough subject, to be certain. Good luck to you!

[AskMeOk 148]

Most all of the advice seems to be the same, and very good. Some people wont take no for an answer and dont handle rejection well.

 

We take no for an answer but are often curious when everything on the profile seems to match up.

 

This is why, sometimes, maybe a "Why?" is in order. Yeah, I know I don't answer the question or ask it, but I really think, from time to time, it would be helpful to know....

[WesternSwing 504]

The topic of race and seems to be mostly a hot button for African-Americans. I rarely hear anyone talking of race when it comes to Hispanics or Asians or Native Americans. It's almost like that isn't considered "interracial" for some reason.

 

It does starkly show how deep and cloaked racism still runs in our country, though and some people will not have sex with others of a specific race because they hold some fear or hatred of them.

 

If it's truly just attraction though, and not fear or hatred, there is no reason someone should be offended. For instance, I am attracted to redheads, Latinas and thicker-bodied women (however redheaded Latinas don't do much for me). Does this mean I am not attracted to Asians or African-American or skinny women? No, it just means my first attraction is to redheads and Latinas and women over size 12 - they will snap my head around faster than an Asian or skinny gal.

 

The problem though is conveying that without sounding racist.

[shy_couple 448]

I want to keep an eye on this post. We feel almost the same as the unregistered user. As far as a sexual preference, we don't find African-Americans attractive playmates. It is wholly an attraction and preference.

 

Although we prefer to meet secure, married, Caucasian couples our best playmates have been an interracial couple where the man was Caucasian and his girlfriend (not wife) was Latina. They have since broken up. But we had the conversation one night over drinks that they weren't attracted to African-American men as playmates. They also sort of had a strange revelation that they were indeed an interracial couple.

Also noticed what the last poster said, this seems to only be an issue or touchy subject when it is in regard to African-Americans. Why is that?

[Chicup 38]

My wife is only attracted to white men as well. Am I going to tell her who she should be attracted to? Early in swinging we were rejected by a couple because she was white (they were Hispanic), funny thing is I never really thought of it as OMG RACISM!

 

Why apologize for it or feel the need to mask yourself? Its really a non-issue that becomes one because of the hurt feelings of being rejected for any reasons.

 

My penis is a little bit of a bigot, hes allowed to be because who I have sex with is (unfortunately) about .000001% of the social interaction I engage in. Race does play a part but its sandwiched in between a lot of other factors, many of which are far more important than race.

 

I could get into some evolutionary discussion on sexual preferences and how it relates to race, but I feel thats getting too deep for what really shouldn't be an issue. You shouldn't feel guilty because of who you want to fuck.

[ViSexual 1,006]

It's sad that anyone feels badly because someone they meet just isn't, physically, attracted to them. We all have our preferences and also all have limitations. If they don't turn you on then it ain't going to work, especially for us men! LOL!

 

Would you feel a wife was being homophobic if she said she just wasn't interrested in sex with another wife?

[Tia Vampire 167]

Statistics show that Africa-Americans and other minorities are high risk for most STD's. This is what scare alot of other races of people from getting involved with having sex with an African-American person and other minorities. We don't base STD's on race. We use the medical way of thinking. Look out for your star player, yourself. You just protect yourself from everyone. Simple, easy, and no discriminations.

 

Who you have sex with, is your own business. If it makes you feel bad, don't do it. If someone other than your spouse has a problem with it, they are not your friends and just trying to make you feel bad about your choices in life. Get away from that person or group of people because they are fascist.

[MulderNScully 19]

I'll try to explain this from an IR standpoint. Mulder is the black one; Scully is the Irish, fiery redhead one. We both enjoy the lifestyle, have had good times and bad times with it, and have found those we've made friends with have turned into lifelong friends. I guess what frustrates me with the current thread of race is on line we find most times profiles who have basically made it clear they don't want either black males or IR couples. There are three ways I can feel about this rejection: 1. Not their preference 2. Something much deeper 3. Racist. I try not to go to the last one most times, but for many blacks this is always going to be a part of the psyche.

 

For those who wonder why this is such a big deal with us understand from our point of view: We want a fair share and shake of the pie on every aspect of the plain. Our ancestors didn't have the choice to come to this nation willingly. Now that several generations have gone by, we are here and are trying to enjoy the "pursuit of happiness" just like our neighbors do. It's a struggle in the workplace and elsewhere; for many in the African-American community sex is just another plane to this constant struggle for acceptance.

 

There was a study just released this week stating how the pay median between white homes and minorities are in such a huge gulf that black homes may never catch up to where white homes income are today. This rankles people like me because we work hard, try to follow the rules, pay taxes, etc. Why can't we have a break like my white brothers and sisters? We're educated, have feelings, and (yes) like to get our freak on. Is it because of some personal defect on me that keeps me from enjoying an intimate moment with someone white or is it something deeper? This is always part of our psyche.

 

I do think one good thing has helped me come to grips with these feelings and that is patience and a willingness to present a different point of view to my white brothers and sisters can indeed reap benefits. Good friends of ours we met four years ago wanted to get together for some swing time. I freaked out about the male with Scully because of my own insecurities (I was young in the lifestyle and had to learn to deal with my feelings); the female of the foursome couldn't be with me because it was more than just me being black, but I represented something that hurt her deeply. In her past, she was assaulted by a black male. She knew I wasn't that way and knew I was a fair player, it was just I represented a painful part of her life.

 

It took time, many visits outside of the lifestyle, and time before she felt comfortable enough to flirt with me. Eventually we had a wonderful time together enjoying each others bodies and the entire evening. Even though they moved south of where we live we know if we ever meet up again it will be a night we'll soon won't forget.

 

Now this is only an aberration, not the rule, but this is just a positive event which worked out for all of us. Does this mean this is the rule for most couples, not at all. Some of the resistance could be due to perception (i.e. Black males have bigger cocks than whites) which brings insecurity to white males. Some white males may feel they are threatened by the perception that blacks, Latinos, or Asians are better lovers than whites. I think this is foolish on some aspects (Hint: Males in general, for examples, can win a woman's heart if they learned how to dance on the dance floor and woo their lovers/wives to bed) and some truth on others.

 

My point is I think for as much as I feel sometimes of being singled out because of who I choose to fall in love with and the rejection we've been seeing in the past few explorations on line we don't let this get us down. We know not everyone is into us...their loss. We think we are a very unique, thoughtful, and passionate couple.

 

Life is our dance floor. You can either sit back and judge us for what we don't look like. You can judge us by what we wear, what color we are, or whether our choice of musical taste fits yours. Or, you could join us on the dance floor and enjoy the party! Too often we sit back against the wall and criticize but lack the courage to bridge the gap and get to know the crowd dancing on the floor. So whether you think of us as worthy, or not; whether if we fit your preference, or not we're going to dance. We're going to dance until we can't dance anymore. If the floor fills up its going to be a busy night.

 

Mulder

(MulderNScully)

 

P.S.--I think sometimes the joy of coming to a swing event helps us defuse the perception of many who may not have given IR couples a chance. For as good as the Internet is it fails to really give a true perception of the total person as a whole. I won't lie there are knuckleheads in my community that embarrasses us as a whole. But knuckleheads are found in all races and really sets back our respective communities as a whole. To base an entire group of people by the few who are acting ignorant is both a bad way of perceiving one another and a set back in relating to those different from us. I hope my thoughts are not seen as an attack on one group or justifying that our group is "better" than others. Not at all. We are all in need of dealing with our faults as a race, gender or species. I'm just here to say those few bad apples makes us throw the whole pie out and it is a shame because I think we all like pie one way or another.

[Pensacolapair 394]

This is why, sometimes, maybe a "Why?" is in order. Yeah, I know I don't answer the question or ask it, but I really think, from time to time, it would be helpful to know....

 

Um..how?

 

"Why?" -- Their answer: "She is 5' 10" tall and prefers men taller than her". If you are 5'6" tall, are you going to grow another 5 inches or so and hit them back with, "how about now"..?

 

"Why?" -- Their answer: "He likes women with larger breasts". Are you going to get your wife a boob job and hit them back with, "How about now"..?

 

"Why?" -- Their answer: "She likes well-endowed men, and from your nude pics you don't qualify". Do you know of a new procedure that will pump a 6-incher up to a 12 incher that you plan on getting and then hitting them back with, "How about now"...?

 

"Why?" -- Their answer: "We are not attracted to blacks". Are you going to bleach your skin, surgically alter your features and wear a wig, then hit them back with, "How about now"..?

 

I'm seriously not trying to ridicule anyone ... I'm just trying to get some clarification on how asking and getting an answer to 'why' is helpful. The examples I used above are probably the more likely ones that would be encountered..and what they have in common is that changing them would require extraordinary measures which,of course, rational people aren't going to do. What really happens in response to answers such as this is that they invite further dialouge, rebuttal, and/or negotiations.

 

"Why?" -- Their answer: "She is 5' 10" tall and prefers men taller than her". Rebuttal: "When we are prone, height is irrelevant and I have a big dick."

 

"Why?" -- Their answer: "He likes women with larger breasts". Rebuttal: "Anything over a handful is a waste and she can suck-start a Harley."

 

"Why?" -- Their answer: "She likes well-endowed men, and from your nude pics you don't qualify". Rebuttal: "It's not the size of the boat, but the motion of the ocean and I eat pussy like a champ."

 

"Why?" -- Their answer: "We are not attracted to blacks". Rebuttal:" That is racist and once you go black, you won't go back".

 

The responses can go on for quite some time - but I promise you that unless the originators of the 'No thanks' are total pushovers, it's going to come back to 'We aren't interested and we ain't gonna fuck you'.

 

I have had others point out that sometimes there are things that turn off others that are easily changed. Examples: Men with facial hair, women wearing sexy clothing, full swap only, soft swap only,shaved below the belt/not shaved below the belt, etc. I'll concede that point...but then ask If you really want to go there. I had this conversation with some lifestyle acquaintances who did want to go there. Both of the guys really enjoyed giving women facials..something my wife and I aren't particularly into (tried it a couple of times between ourselves over the years and found it more humorous than erotic). I knew that both of these guys wives didn't do anal, so I simply asked them, "If G lets you give her a facial, can I fuck your wives in the ass?" Of course, the answer was 'no'. I see... so G is 'spoda do something she isn't into - but your wives aren't? Interesting concept....! (NOT!) Everyone has one or two 'no's...and they are not an abbreviation for 'No, ask me if I might make an exception for you'.

 

Perhaps I've missed something over the years, but isn't one of the great things about swinging is that it's all about finding someone whose thing matches your thing and having fun playing with each other's things? If their thing doesn't match your's -- move on to the next thing and if you need to, take solace in the fact that their thing isn't 'one-size-fits-all' ... they get told 'No thanks' too.

 

M

[AskMeOk 148]

Um..how?

"Why?" -- Their answer: "She is 5' 10" tall and prefers men taller than her". If you are 5'6" tall, are you going to grow another 5 inches or so and hit them back with, "how about now"..?

 

Cute, I was really thinking about things that could be fixed......

 

"Why?" -- Their answer: "Your profile text makes you look dumber than dirt... can't you use a spell checker?"

 

"Why?" -- Their answer: "That picture makes you look like an Ugnaught"

 

"Why?" -- Their answer: "You profile makes it appear that only one of you is interested in swinging."

 

Your examples are a bit "off," too, because those deal breakers should be in the profile.... If she is only turned on by bald smokers that are over 5'-10", there's just no way I'm going to bother to write in the first place: a "Why?" would most certainly never be needed.

 

OTOH, if the profiles look a lot like mirror images and you get a "no interest," then a "this is why" would go a long way in erasing a huge WTF?

 

Wordsmithing a profile is difficult enough; never getting feedback on how the reader perceives the profile makes it nearly impossible. It is a lot like trying to learn to shoot baskets in a totally dark gym......

 

Maybe those mirror image profiles really weren't..... we just thought they were......

[Pensacolapair 394]

AskMeOk said:

Cute, I was really thinking about things that could be fixed......

 

"Why?" -- Their answer: "Your profile text makes you look dumber than dirt... can't you use a spell checker?"

 

"Why?" -- Their answer: "That picture makes you look like an Ugnaught"

 

"Why?" -- Their answer: "You profile makes it appear that only one of you is interested in swinging."

 

Your examples are a bit "off," too, because those deal breakers should be in the profile.... If she is only turned on by bald smokers that are over 5'-10", there's just no way I'm going to bother to write in the first place: a "Why?" would most certainly never be needed.

 

OTOH, if the profiles look a lot like mirror images and you get a "no interest," then a "this is why" would go a long way in erasing a huge WTF?

 

Wordsmithing a profile is difficult enough; never getting feedback on how the reader perceives the profile makes it nearly impossible. It is a lot like trying to learn to shoot baskets in a totally dark gym......

 

Maybe those mirror image profiles really weren't..... we just thought they were......

 

You make some good points, and in a perfect world where everyone checked their egos at the door, I would thank you and STFU. However - in that same perfect world, there would be a standard information set for profiles that everyone would adhere to and let the chips fall where they may. I cited extreme, unchangeable examples on purpose not only to be facetious,but also because the fact of the matter is that people routinely do not include 'deal-breakers' in their profile for any number of reasons they feel justify the omission. Not to pick on the OP, but as a quick example, take a look at their profile (I did) - there is a fair chance that if their profile stated that they were not attracted to blacks, they wouldn't have been contacted by the couple that 'why'd them in the first place!

 

Unfortunately, not everyone interprets what they read the same way - it's the main handicap of the written word. And then there is that ol' ego thing I keep harping on.

 

Go to the forum on Swing Lifestyle or any other ad site and look up any post that has using spellcheck as it's subject. Posters charge out of the woodwork in righteous indignation at the idea that they should actually spell better than a 2nd grader! As I understand it, it's some kinda infringement on their rights. The general consensus from them is that if you expect them to be able to effectively express themselves using the written word, you have a stick up your ass and aren't the kind of person they are looking for.

 

Tell someone their photos make them look bad..? Check out any forum thread about photos - you don't think the pic of her sitting on the can first thing in the morning is sexy? Again, you have a stick up your ass and aren't the kind of person they are looking for.

 

You may take constructive criticism well..but many,many others in the Lifestyle take any criticism as a personal assault by someone who 'thinks they are better than us'. It's one of the reasons that asking 'why' when told 'No thanks' became bad form/manners - because like sooooo many other things, the few knuckleheads gummed it up so bad that the masses decided it just wasn't worth the hassle.

 

At face value, I can understand being frustrated/confused when a 'mirror profile' contacted results in a 'No thanks' - for about 10 seconds. Perhaps I am too shallow, but there have been couples who have contacted us who, on paper, were a perfect match profile-wise... and we said 'No Thanks'. Why..? Looked at their pics, and what she, me, or we saw just didn't float our boat. No, it wasn't always a bad photo, and in some instances were actually people most would consider attractive - But... I think the current phrase is, we 'just wasn't feelin' it'. I'm fairly confident that many here would say "Been there!" How helpful of a response would that be to 'why'? Not very..but that's all there is, and it is what it is.

 

I totally agree that it's difficult to craft one's profile without some sort of feedback. There are good sources of feedback on one's profile. A long time ago, we learned to ask those that we had gotten to know in the Lifestyle to critique ours...and they in turn asked us to do theirs. IMO, there is less inclination to get defensive. For newbies who have not met folks they are that comfortable with yet - this board as well as forums on other sites have 'Profile review' threads that, from what I have seen, are very good at giving outside perspective on profiles. I've been impressed at how many times others saw the same good and bad points I did - but put it in a much more tactful manner than I could.

[tnt69couple 64]

I don't think there was anything wrong with your response. But I would have chosen to use a different reason. I would have said it is just something we picked up on like your inability to let things go.

[mixtupcpl 169]

Hot button topic, but what it comes down to ultimately is that people shouldn't have to apologize for what they find sexually attractive and this is such a deeply personal thing (the most personal thing), I feel it trumps someone elses comfort level by a wide margin.

 

As for the OP, I would say that you definitely were baited, but we're all human; it happens. Better bet is to just be final in your "no thank you, but thanks for your interest" and not reply again.

[djjwp 129]

This is not taking NO for an answer. First, they do not belong in swinging if they can't at least do that. Second, to play the race card is part of their game to get what they want so do not feel bad for using your discretion and making the choices you want and they what to change.

 

I had two black room mates in collage my freshman year and they were the most racist people I have yet to meet in life. The one did his white girlfriend and never locked the door. I would walk in and he would be smacking her around as he played and never cared if I was there or not, he had no respect for either of us. When she left he just laughed and said its his place in life, breed them and leave them. No wonder 80% of black homes are single moms.

 

Don't fall for the game and do not judge by color. It was his character that ticked me off, not his race. That was his issue, not mine. There are plenty of decent black people, the one that contacted you was not one of them.

[twoforone100 45]

Nevers answers the " why" question....

 

As for the rest... shakes head.... It is a choice who you play with. Might some do it for " wrong " reasons? YES.... but Unless they say that they are racists you can't know for sure... you should never assume.. it'll get you in to trouble.

[AskMeOk 148]

Nevers answers the " why" question....

 

As for the rest... shakes head.... It is a choice who you play with. Might some do it for " wrong " reasons? YES.... but Unless they say that they are racists you can't know for sure... you should never assume.. it'll get you in to trouble.

 

Your position is well placed and logical. I think Chicup, however, asked (or, at least implied) *the* salient question(s):

 

They want to fuck you because you are black = not racist.

They don't want to fuck you because you are black = racist.

 

Now, let me underscore this with demographics:

 

How many single black females do you find as swingers?

How many black females do you find posting looking for Big White Cock?

 

Yep, that's racism....racism doesn't have to be about supremacy, it has to be about prejudice due solely to race. And it isn't all about white folks, either.... some of the most racist folks I have ever known hated white folks for the color of their skin.

 

Let me point out the obvious... if you owned slaves or thought that was OK, and your church supported you.... you have been dead for over 100 years... please leave.... If your great-great-great grandparents were in the preceding group..... at what point do those folks have to stop paying for shit that happened 125 years before they were born?

 

Yes, I *AM* oversimplifying things, but I'm trying to make a point. Do you have a right to bed or wed whoever you chose? Sure, but don't use that to hide your feelings of prejudice.

 

I guess only the other oldsters here will get it, but, like Jiminy Cricket, let your conscience be your guide......

[mixtupcpl 169]

Let me point out the obvious... if you owned slaves or thought that was OK, and your church supported you.... you have been dead for over 100 years... please leave.... If your great-great-great grandparents were in the preceding group..... at what point do those folks have to stop paying for shit that happened 125 years before they were born?

 

Yes, I *AM* oversimplifying things, but I'm trying to make a point. Do you have a right to bed or wed whoever you chose? Sure, but don't use that to hide your feelings of prejudice.

 

I guess only the other oldsters here will get it, but, like Jiminy Cricket, let your conscience be your guide......

 

If someone has been dead for over 100 years and is posting, thats a pretty seriously powerful undead... Might be better to just ignore them rather than risk pissing them off

 

Couldnt resist!

 

On topic... I've been told "I don't date white guys..." by a black chick waaaay back in my youth and I was told "I only date XXXX guys" by a chick who actually thought I was XXXX until we had our first date.

 

In neither case was I offended in any way and I remained friends with both gals. There are a lot of reasons why people choose who they choose to either date, fuck, marry, cohabitate with, what have you. Could be pure physical attraction... Could be fear of cultural incompatibility... Could be fear of judgement... Could just be lack of interest. I don't feel its something anyone should have to defend...

 

I also tend to agree with the general sentiment that it seems there are a lot of white girls going out of their way to find black guys. It seems easily as many as there are white girls who are looking to avoid black guys, so not sure why it should be an issue for a black guy that any *individual* girl says "not my thing".

 

Take black and white out of it... Mrs Mix is Asian... She's had a TON of guys proposition her *purely* because she's Asian. If she is interested in the guy, she doesn't really read much into their motivation. On the other hand... once or twice in her life she's run across guys for whom Asian girls "weren't their thing" and it didn't bother her in the slightest.

 

Everyone is different and is going to react differently of course, but I think its healthier for someone to try to adopt this kind of attitude when it comes to love, dating and sex.

[shy_couple 448]

Was thinking about this thread at work today. My workplace is VERY diverse.I work with asians (from several differnt countries), African Americans, Indians, German, Jewish, Latino, Persians, Armenians, and whiteys like us. I consider many of them friends. We get together after work for drinks, have play dates for our kids, BBQ on weekends. A very nice bunch of vanilla friends who can count on eachother in a pinch, enjoy each others company, and get along fabulously.

 

But there are few that would make the cut in the swinging world. Maybe we are to choosy but still dont think its a racism issue. Maybe we are more prejudiced when it comes to our playmates. But we feel that it is a comfort and a level of attraction for a particular "type" that turns us on. For this we make no excuses.

 

Check out our screen name, shy_couple. We are shy and grew up in white suburban America. Sex was always a taboo subject. Not to mention interracial dating. Its taken a long time for us to open up and explore our sexuality and begin to explore outside of our, and sociatal, "norms". Is it really too much of a stretch to understand that this is a slow process? We dont like or want to hurt anyone for any reason as we get a big reward from the social aspects of the lifestyle. We feel that we tend to have more in common with people of similar backgrounds therefor are more comfortable. Comfort (and alcohol) always makes for an easier transition to play-time. At least in our case.

[ktown 15]

I am Black married to a white woman. The its like hair color or height and weight is BS because you can just go change those unlike skin color which I would not change.In the southern part of the USA it was the choice of the people that JIM crow was the rule of the day so was that right?

 

I have also said the same thing to black people looking for other black people and couples,there is a mixed race couple on here that will only go with black men and I have went against their post also,because to live the dream the inside of the person is what you should be looking at.

 

The race card has history and if that history was not there you would not have the race card to keep talking about.

[Coupleerotic22 1,417]

The problem is comparing personal preference to institutional racism, which is what Jim Crow laws were about.

 

In swinging, just as in dating, physical attraction is almost always the first in a series of elements that lead to a relationship.

 

There are physical elements within my race that I find attractive and others I don't. The same is true of woman of color. Some I find attractive others I don't.

 

Honestly, I find a larger portion woman of my race attractive than the percentage of black women I find attractive. I have never had sex with a black women, but it is not out of the question. If we click then it could happen. Maybe I am wrong, but I would think I would not be interested in black women at all if it were racism. Is it racist that I find some black women attractive and others not? What makes it more difficult is that all 4 within a couple must click, lowers the odds.

 

So in the end it is about preferences. To be sure there are racist and racism. There are far more important issues impacted by racism than who someone chooses to have sex. And it is particularly difficult and look at someones preferences and say that is racism, even if they say their preference is to have sex only within their race.

 

Some people see racism in everything, the possibility that someone just finds them unattractive never occurs to them. They blame the lack of connection on the other persons racism, regardless of anything else. Ironically, that seems like racism.

[lustylearning 705]

It's funny. I finally read most of this thread today. When I first read the thread title, however, a very different thought came to mind. We met a couple once. They wowed us. Perfect energy, attractive. Had to have 'em, lol. And we did, and it was good. They invited us to spend more time with them. Over the course of the next couple of meetings, we learned they were racist. This understanding of them spoiled my desire. They'd make comments; I'd point out the silliness of them; and the verbal sparring over their attempts at justifying their prejudices was a definite mood killer.

 

Some thoughts to share with DE_BBC. By definition, a sexual fetish is, per Merriam Webster: an object or bodily part whose real or fantasied presence is psychologically necessary for sexual gratification and that is an object of fixation to the extent that it may interfere with complete sexual expression. I suspect the women you encounter in fantasy fulfillment, either single or in couples, have a curiosity, not a fetish. My husband would like to bang a little Asian chickie. It's a fantasy born of curiosity, a desire for "different." But not everyone seeks "different." Entering the lifestyle is like going to a buffet. The fact that someone chooses to not eat an item doesn't mean there is something wrong with them. Racism is determined by something that goes far deeper than the selection of sexual partners.

[The Fuse 1,012]

It's funny. I finally read most of this thread today. When I first read the thread title, however, a very different thought came to mind. We met a couple once. They wowed us. Perfect energy, attractive. Had to have 'em, lol. And we did, and it was good. They invited us to spend more time with them. Over the course of the next couple of meetings, we learned they were racist. This understanding of them spoiled my desire. They'd make comments; I'd point out the silliness of them; and the verbal sparring over their attempts at justifying their prejudices was a definite mood killer.

 

Some thoughts to share with DE_BBC. By definition, a sexual fetish is, per Merriam Webster: an object or bodily part whose real or fantasied presence is psychologically necessary for sexual gratification and that is an object of fixation to the extent that it may interfere with complete sexual expression. I suspect the women you encounter in fantasy fulfillment, either single or in couples, have a curiosity, not a fetish. My husband would like to bang a little Asian chickie. It's a fantasy born of curiosity, a desire for "different." But not everyone seeks "different." Entering the lifestyle is like going to a buffet. The fact that someone chooses to not eat an item doesn't mean there is something wrong with them. Racism is determined by something that goes far deeper than the selection of sexual partners.

 

Brava, LustyLearning! I definitely believe that people can both be racist and desire those they believe are inferior as sexual partners... maybe as sexual toys as much or more than as partners.

 

We had a similar experience with a couple we discovered were racist. We were flirting heavily at a party and wanting to play, when I found out the guy has a bad attitude toward blacks. It was a real mood-killer. They ended up getting drunk and making a scene, not about us, but about a situation that definitely had racial undertones. I'm glad they did that before we played. We don't have to agree with all of our friends and play partners' opinions, but this was intense enough that I wouldn't want to be associated with them. Too bad... they are a very hot couple.

[mixtupcpl 169]

I am Black married to a white woman. The its like hair color or height and weight is BS because you can just go change those unlike skin color which I would not change.In the southern part of the USA it was the choice of the people that JIM crow was the rule of the day so was that right?

 

I have also said the same thing to black people looking for other black people and couples,there is a mixed race couple on here that will only go with black men and I have went against their post also,because to live the dream the inside of the person is what you should be looking at.

 

The race card has history and if that history was not there you would not have the race card to keep talking about.

 

It's admirable that you apply your standard universally (most dont), but I still think its wrong.

 

Could be the baggage is too hard to get past here in the US, but I stand firm on the idea that sexual preference is a personal thing that no one has a right to question or pressure someone on. I mean what's the point anyway? Would anyone really want to, what, *guilt* some couple into being with them? That seems like a really lousy attitude to have.

[mixtupcpl 169]

The Fuse said:

Brava, LustyLearning! I definitely believe that people can both be racist and desire those they believe are inferior as sexual partners... maybe as sexual toys as much or more than as partners.

 

This is true, but I think it cuts both ways and only one direction generally gets discussed or is considered an issue. It seems it is always white couples or, women in particular (can't say I've seen lots of heated debate over a white guy saying "not into black chicks") justifying their choices, but no one else is expected to. Quite the opposite really. I mean how often do you see anyone accusing single black guys who exclusively want to swing with white couples of racism? I dont think I've ever seen that, yet I have definitely seen first hand where there was a really ugly element of racism involved.

[Chicup 38]

Brava, LustyLearning! I definitely believe that people can both be racist and desire those they believe are inferior as sexual partners... maybe as sexual toys as much or more than as partners.

 

We have had two posts here over the years where the man only wanted his wife to swing with black males since he had no fear of her leaving him for a black male.

[AskMeOk 148]

This is pretty much never going to be resolved here. Some have posted that it is all about preference.... fine, so I own a company and my preference is to only hire whites.... or I have a preference to never use the toilet or water fountain behind blacks.

 

It isn't that I don't defend your right to your own personal preferences.... you SHOULD be able to fuck who you want and ONLY who you want.

 

What I'm having trouble getting past is remembrances of listening to the grownups in the 50's talking about the lost of personal preference. That the government was forcing the N*ggers upon the Whites and taking away personal liberties. This is the same argument I am hearing.

 

I say, again, that if you are making a decision to be with or not be with a certain race, based solely on their ethnicity, you are making a personal decision to be a racist. It isn't body type, personality, etc..... it is out and out racism.

 

As been voiced here, though, if some folks are getting the action they want, anything is ok. Maybe it is, today, but I LIVED through what it used to be like.... it is a slippery slope and a bad scene.....

 

YMMV and, promise.... my last post on the subject....

[slevin 1,374]

As been voiced here, though, if some folks are getting the action they want, anything is ok. Maybe it is, today, but I LIVED through what it used to be like.... it is a slippery slope and a bad scene.....

 

This might be a generational difference. I am sure there is still racism, but I don't know anyone who secretly thinks another race is inferior to them. Now, we do live in one of the most multicultural cities in the world, so maybe we're just spoiled here. I think people of my generation care far less about what race people are and are more focused on other aspects (how they treat people, attraction etc.). Sure there's still going to be the racists, but those are in the minority. The only outright racist people that I've run across are folks my parents and grandparents ages. So there might be a difference in connotation of the words people use. People of a certain generation, like yourselves, historically have seen a racist connotation to terms like "preference", "choice" etc. While people of another generation never encountered those connotations to those terms.

 

For me, I'm not generally attracted to black women. That isn't to say I would never have sex with a black girl though. If I met a black girl who I found attractive and fun then I'd have sex with her. It doesn't happen too often, but it does happen.

 

I definitely agree that this will never be settled here, but it has been an interesting conversation to see and be a part of. It's not too often that people, who aren't good friends, discuss issues of race.

[Chicup 38]

You can be a racist as in feeling your race is superior and still swing with other races.

 

What we are talking about is overt racism, the 'take your hands off the white women' type.

 

Some very nice people can be quite racist, they feel superior and that they should help. Racism itself doesn't need involve hate.

[Guest erotichugs]

Hi guys,

We are a mixed couple.. (she is white and he is of Pakistani Origin).. and in our opinion what you said to this couple was PERFECTLY OK.. in no way it was RACIEST (and belive us we know racism first hand) and NO you did not get an honoray membership in the KKK or the NAZI party!!

 

Swinging is a total extra and is for pleasure and something which is totally out of the relm of racism..

 

I love Coke over Pepsi.. I like women over men.(these women can not be fat! and i am very particular as to what they look like). She likes both.. (Women have to be shaven .. men optional as far as shaving goes and dark hair and older!!)..

 

Oh we both like WHITE Couples .. a black guy would be ok if he has a NICE SIZE DICK and a good body!!

 

Here, we will not interact with Local men / women..(it never works out, we have tried but the mental maturity is not there).

 

There is NO RULE BOOK!! it is a totally personal preference ..IT is what we are attracted to.. plain and simple! we can not change this and we will not change these preferences for other peoples egos.!! neither will be forced into lowering our standards!!

 

Damn! we should be given a spot on the Executive committe of the KKK and the NAZI party!! if this is considered racist!!

 

We know that some people say no to us for the same or similar reasons, it is better to be Open right from the start. It does not bother us one bit. there are unlimited fish in the sea and we move on.

 

This couple has a chip on the shoulder, and not mature enough to be in the LIFESTYLE.

 

Please, do not feel like you have done anything wrong!

Its your RIGHT to be choosy!!

 

Mo and Rose

[sash 15]

This is a hard subject to comment on. After all you were just trying to be honest, however you should have had the common sense just to say thank you for your email but not interested. I have to say i am an Asian myself and understand that people have preferences on looks, age, weight, height, social standing and skin colour thats just life. I What is hard to understand why you just didn't say 'no thank you' and left it at that

[Guest oliandstanley]

I've found the responses to this quite interesting.

What I find really interesting is that no one seems to think that excluding someone by the virtue of race is WRONG.

 

Now... before everyone gets their panties in a bunch allow me to explain.

The OP would like you to believe that the basis of their rejection is/was not racist. And I think that in fact it was very racist. As a Black Man I get offended when people try to pass off racism as "a choice" ...comparing being Black to being overweight or older in age. Let's keep it real. These are not the same thing. I realize that this is America and every person has the right to think however they want to think...and I'm cool with that. But I gotta call it like I see it.

 

I think that the comparison was a bit off. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes. I think finding a partner to play with is totally up to the people involved. I believe it could have been more explained with comparing hair color, eye color, age and body type. My husband and I are physically fit, but not muscle bound. We know what attracts us and what doesn't. My husband knows that I do not like blonde haired men, as well as black haired men.

 

As a brunette all my life, we have always been considered, not as sexy as blondes. So if you turned a women down because she was a brunette, verses a blonde, or if they were too thin, too old, too young then there would not be an issue.

 

I believe that it's too easy to use a prejudice accusation. My husband and I don't complain because we are much older than most of the party goers now a days, because we know that there are many people in the lifestyle and we will always find and keep looking for playtime.

 

So I believe everyone has their opinion and if they do not choose someone because of their race, or they do choose you because of race or color then they are not what you want in the first place.

[shy_couple 448]

Hi guys,

This couple has a chip on the shoulder, and not mature enough to be in the LIFESTYLE.

 

Please, do not feel like you have done anything wrong!

Its your RIGHT to be choosy!!

 

Glad to hear this from a mixed race couple. This is a sensitive topic that has kept me checking it for new posts every day or two. Many valid points on both sides. And some high emotions as well.

 

We choose our friends based onn their character. We choose our playmates on what we find attractive (chararacter is important an important part of this but not physical is much higher on the list on the list). We play with who we find attractive and who we feel safe with. For this we make NO apologies.

[sexycouple1 36]

I've been married for 15yrs and we are an interracial couple and I also grew up in a mixed family as well. I have experienced small issues regarding racism and some not so small.

 

In my limited years on this earth (about 40 now) I have seen a gradual positive shift in attitudes towards race as a whole (there are always pockets of discourse everywhere).

 

I feel it is getting better. Slowly. Things like "preference" will be a thing of the past. Its a generational thing that with time will eventually just not be present in peoples mind. For all you nerds out there. Think Star Trek and you'll get what I'm talking about. Beam me up Scotty!

[Coupleerotic22 1,417]

I feel it is getting better. Slowly. Things like "preference" will be a thing of the past.

 

If you could raise a magic wand and eliminate racism today, (and I wish we could) would you think that there would be mo preferences as to who someone chooses to have sex with?

[sexycouple1 36]

If you could raise a magic wand and eliminate racism today, (and I wish we could) would you think that there would be mo preferences as to who someone chooses to have sex with?

 

Thats why I hate writing on Forums things always get lost in translation as to what is actually meant. I put the word Prefrences in quotes, meaning people definitions of what the real term preferences actually means to them in regards to really picking a person for having sex with is not objective but subjective. People can make up all the labels and reasons they want for not picking a particular race/culture but WE as a society still put our preconceived notions of what a person is based on WHATEVER instead of actually getting to the know person first before judging them.

 

Everyone does it. I can't wait to meet that sexy green venusian girl - I hear they give really good blowjobs...but maybe you don't like green pussy.

 

Beam me up again Scotty.

[Coupleerotic22 1,417]

Thats why I hate writing on Forums things always get lost in translation as to what is actually meant. I put the word Prefrences in quotes, meaning people definitions of what the real term preferences actually means to them in regards to really picking a person for having sex with is not objective but subjective. People can make up all the labels and reasons they want for not picking a particular race/culture but WE as a society still put our preconceived notions of what a person is based on WHATEVER instead of actually getting to the know person first before judging them.

 

Everyone does it. I can't wait to meet that sexy green venusian girl - I hear they give really good blowjobs...but maybe you don't like green pussy.

 

Beam me up again Scotty.

 

It was not lost in translation. I understood it, but I was making a point. The point is that preference is NOT ALWAYS analogous to racism. And no, not everyone does it, i.e. judge someone before they know them. People have preferences, short, tall, skinny fat and yes black and white. TO be sure some people use "preference" as code for racism. The problem that I, and many posters to this thread have, is the absolutism by others. And if preference is allowed to be defined as intolerance then we have gone backwards not forwards. It is just as racist to assume that the only reason someone does not have sex with you is because of race, which has been posited in this thread.

 

I assume that if a women does not want to have sex with me it is because I don't fit her desired preference, not that she is intolerant of me in someway. I don't assume that, if in their profile, she mentions a preference that precludes me as a playmate, that it is intolerance. In fact I have made good friends with more than one person whose preference precludes me from their play list, yet we are still good friends. If preference truly meant intolerance then we couldn't be friends.

 

Sometimes "preference" just means "that which is preferred", and nothing more.

[mixtupcpl 169]

I assume that if a women does not want to have sex with me it is because I don't fit her desired preference, not that she is intolerant of me in someway. I don't assume that, if in their profile, she mentions a preference that precludes me as a playmate, that it is intolerance. In fact I have made good friends with more than one person whose preference precludes me from their play list, yet we are still good friends. If preference truly meant intolerance then we couldn't be friends.

 

Sometimes "preference" just means "that which is preferred", and nothing more.

 

This is a really good point. I dont see why it is so hard to grasp. I really like the example given by "erotichugs" of the BIG BIG girl. Maybe big big folks will just be the "final frontier" where "prejudice" is just hunky dory, but I dont see anyone questioning folks who say "my preference is HWP" Instead, you get rationalizations like "well they can control their weight! you cant control race" Well ok, lets say that big gal in that pic has a thyroid condition and eats only enough calories per day to provide the carbohydrate levels required for proper brain function, yet is STILL huge. So in that case, would it be wrong to say "even if I get to know her and really like her a lot, I just cant find her attractive enough to want to have sex with her" ?

 

Or how about an underendowed guy? Or an overendowed guy (shockingly, some women do shy away from guys that are "too big") or how about a girl that is an A cup or one that is like a triple F cup or something?

 

Of course "preference" *can* be code for racism, but I think folks are making some really compelling and reasonable arguments for why one should *not* assume that and, more to the point, I think it is clear that in the case of the OP they arent "racists".

 

I also think that it is really not right to draw a link between the brutal history of civil rights in the US and sexual preference. "It is my preference to not hire XXXX" is NOWHERE in the same ballpark as "it is my preference to not *fuck* XXXX". It's really specious to try to make that connection.

 

Just flip it and see if it still bugs you... A black person says "it is my preference to never hire a white person in my business". I think for most people, that would trigger some sort of alarm. Not as badly as the reverse, but as a blanket policy, it would be alarming. But if a black person said "I only date/fuck/marry other black people" can anyone say that this statement would be contraversial to *anyone*? So I just cannot see why the reverse seems to be such a problem.

[Chicup 38]

Hmmmm. I think your dates are off a bit here, Chicup. Columbus came in 1492. You're probably thinking of 1620 when the Pilgrims immigrated illegally at "Plymouth." Yeah, we should have burned the Mayflower, too.

 

Alura

 

Ya I had a horrible brain fart

[Guest erotichugs]

Or how about an underendowed guy? Or an overendowed guy (shockingly, some women do shy away from guys that are "too big") or how about a girl that is an A cup or one that is like a triple F cup or something?

 

Of course "preference" *can* be code for racism, but I think folks are making some really compelling and reasonable arguments for why one should *not* assume that and, more to the point, I think it is clear that in the case of the OP they arent "racists".

exactly our point! and belive me .. (none of you in this forum have been victimized for their race more than us!! when it really is racism where it matters in REAL LIFE).. but we swing but we are very particular with who we swing with!!

This is a definite extra for us and we keep it as that... Both of us have to aprove and there are a variety of criteria that are ALL PERSONAL PREFERENCES, likes and dislikes we take into consideration.

That is one reason we like the concept of "FRIENDS First with Benifits" and we will not "meet and Fuck and ask questions later"..

[sexycouple1 36]

Well my preference is a white woman who stands 5'-4" weighing 126lbs 8 oz. has ocean blue eyes, has strawberry blonde shoulder length hair, with nice hips, 38B Breasts, a Hear shaped ass, soft kissable lips, does not smoke, drinks socially, does not do drugs, gives as good as she gets , and gets and loves my sarcasm and falls for all my charms........ANYBODY exactly like that because that's what I prefer. Thats my preference. If not well then keep looking for someone because I'm not interested in you..........I AM OF COURSE KIDDING HERE!!!..........Variety IS the SPICE of life. I try not to go through life with self imposed blinders , so look a little deeper (whether it is the skin tone or some other physical ailement- (note the sarcasm here)) is all I'm saying.......by the way that preference that I decribed was my wife to the T. cya!

[shy_couple 448]

Sometimes "preference" just means "that which is preferred", and nothing more.

 

I keep thinking that this is finally the last time I will weigh in on this thread but when I read new postings, I think of a new point.

 

I am a straight man. Mrs Shy is bi-friendly. We really have no problemm with gay or bi men. I am not homophobic and I am comfortable being naked around other men. I also realize in the heat of things there is incidental bumping our touching. No worries whatsoever when Mrs Shy or another female playmate wants both guys in her mouth at the same time. Me nor Mrs Shy have no desire to have, see, or be involved with bi male play. It really doesn't turn us on or hold any interest for either of us.

 

So that being said, are we being desciminated against because of our sexual orientation?

 

Alot of people have made the parrallel height, weight, blonde, brunett, big tits, tatoos, piercings, etc to race preference. There are still people who feel that this is just an excuse, justification, or disguise for racism. Does sexual orientation or preference fall into this catagory as well, or is it legitimate? Or are people who feel racism is the underlying reason for the "excuses" feel open to all, even gay and bi-sexual, forms of sexual exploration?

 

Just some food for thought, or possibly fuel for the fire.

[amale2pleaseu 15]

1st off i'm a wm with a beautiful black woman. we've gotten regected i feel at times because of the interacial card but why would we want to force our way ,LOL into a coupling where that exists. several black males on here have gotten their dick out of joint and want to make it a racial issue. are they crying over all the profiles that say BBC's only. any reason is perfectly good reason to not meet, one of them being the color of one's skin . for me that different skin color and ethnic characteristics turn me on but i don't get offended if a black or any other ethnicity doesn't find me arousing. grow up!!....so many couples ,so little time.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,019]

amale2pleaseu said:

. . . so many couples, so little time.

My sentiment exactly.

[Guest winnme]

I think that your response was good enough. When you informed them that you were not interested in meeting them, they should have left it as that. They wanted to know why and you informed them why, so don't worry about it, they will get over it. Like I have read others say, once you decline the offer just leave it at that, if they continue to contact you after that, just block them and go on.