Should my husband be seen as a single since I don't play?

[cplnuswing 4,711]

When it comes to these discussions that evolve around trying to sort all people into a few neat little boxes, there will never be agreement. All people are different (and thankfully so), and there will never be unanimous agreement on the exact number of boxes that are needed, what they should be labeled, and who gets to go in what box. But, it really doesn't matter. If someone has issue that you don't perfectly fit in one of their boxes, that's their problem, not yours. No sense worrying about it or analyzing it - it is what it is.

 

As long as you are up front and honest about it, then you are holding up your end of the bargain. How they choose react to that is again their problem, not yours. Swinging rules are funny things - they cut both ways. What may be an absolute deal killer for some may make you just what someone else is looking for if they have similar rules. What should come as no surprise though is the more unique your situation/rules, the more you set yourself apart from the "norm" and thereby reduce the pool of potential playmates. I'm not at all implying anyone should try to be something they are not just to keep the potential playmate list high. That's being dishonest with both yourself and others, and will only lead sooner or later to dissatisfaction and unsatisfying experiences.

 

To throw in on answering the question posed in the thread title, my opinion is your SO should not be seen as a single as generally defined. He's not a single because a single male does not have any limitations other than what he defines for himself, and that is not the case here. Nor are you are a typical full or soft swap swinging couple.

 

You are what you are, you're up front about it, and if someone wants to get heartburn over how your profile is categorized on a website or that you didn't end up fitting their preconceived notion of what you would be when they first spotted you at a club, then that's their problem and let them deal with it.

[DigginIt 1,132]

I think the Swingers Board dictionary needs a lot of work. You had to chose the definition of "soft swing" to prove your point because the various definitions of "swinger," "hard swing, "soft swing," and other words including the word swing or swinger are not in accord and don't necessarily support the definition you picked. (Who mentioned soft swing, anyway?)

 

 

The majority of your argument seems to stem around your definition of swinging proper as an oust towards firefly but soft swinging is a very accepted form of swinging as part of the lifestyle even if you don't like it.

 

You made a strong point that implied that Firefly is just a disinterested party who lets her husband use her to get past the 'no single men' rules at the estate. (paraphrased)

 

Firefly doesn't play but enjoys the voyeuristic aspect, she enjoys it when her husband plays, plays with him afterwards.

 

Your point has been clearly made, I think mine has too. I highly doubt we will agree so we should just agree to disagree. I think we have a lot of common things we did agree on with the exception of this one point.

[AskMeOk 148]

Your point has been clearly made, I think mine has too. I highly doubt we will agree so we should just agree to disagree. I think we have a lot of common things we did agree on with the exception of this one point.

 

I think so, too. Your comment about the woman that won't kiss, but will give a world class blow job actually made me laugh out loud. Meeting such a couple was our first WTF moment in swinging.....

 

One point that we've come across.... and I'd like to see this clarified, is, "what defines a swinger?" Birthright? Certain personal participation or no requirement thereof? Mere association with a certain reference group? What?

 

I really gets odd when you consider acquaintances and decide that "X" is a swinger because "Y," since that sets them apart from non-swingers....

 

It gets even stranger when you consider the question, "Do swinger venues willingly admit non-swingers?"

 

I'd never really considered it all that thoroughly. I have no interest in neatly stacking folks into tidy boxes, but we are hanging out here in the SWINGERSboard.... what *is* that????

[Malachista 170]

I have the feeling that the Email came from the male part of a couple who was interrested in you and now tries to pressure you to play

[ncmd_couple 597]

I have the feeling that the Email came from the male part of a couple who was interested in you and now tries to pressure you to play

 

Good insight... and very, very possible!

[twoforone100 45]

I have the feeling that the Email came from the male part of a couple who was interested in you and now tries to pressure you to play

 

It just as easily come from the female half who thought he was breaking the single guy limit rule?

 

It could have come from both as they think they are the swinger police or something.

 

No proof either way...and in the end it does not matter.

[Newpants 21]

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate a little bit here and address the nasty email you received that set off this whole debate. There is an ugly dark side to the lifestyle and as an earlier poster mentioned there IS a lot of judgementalism and intolerance that takes place.

 

(As a little personal background we have experienced similar snide remarks and nasty emails not because our female half doesn't play but because she is very picky and only plays infrequently with a very select few people)

 

First off my personal view is that if both you and your SO enjoy going to the club, pay your dues, follow the rules of the club and come away with a smile then you have a right to be there and a right to pursue your interests just like anyone else.

 

 

HOWEVER a lot of people do not share my personal opinions. Swingers clubs serve a very small niche segment of the population and many swingers have a pretty narrow and specific view of what a swinger is. And some unfortunately do not have much tolerance for people that they do not believe meets their definitions of a swinger.

 

By your own admission you are not a swinger. For the most part you are a vanilla that supports your SO's participation. The problem is there are a lot of people that do not think that nonswingers should set foot in swinger's clubs. They will see you as an outsider and a fake and as an interloper into a closed and secretive world.

 

There are those that will see you as a "ticket" that your SO has used to gain access into a world that mostly revolves around couples/single females. For every 1 person that confronts you to your face there will be 10 others that will look down their nose at you or talk about you behind your back.

 

There will be those that will look at your SO with complete disdain for bringing a female into a club that no one else can have while he tries to score with other people's partners. YES, he probably would be more accepted and tolerated if he were a completely single guy because for all practical purposes he IS a single male in the lifestyle because he does not have a participating partner in the lifestyle.

 

As Julie mentioned if the roles were reversed and you went to the club to play while your SO sat quietly in the corner and read a book, you'd be one of the most popular couples in the club. But since it is the female sitting out you will be looked at as a vanilla and an outsider and your SO will be looked at as deceptive and manipulative.

 

My point to all of this and my advice is to be aware of this mentality that SOME (probably not most, but at least SOME) of the people have, and be prepared to deal with it on an on-going basis.

 

This will not be the last nastygram that you will get and be prepared for some dickhead to confront you to your face about it some day.

 

Again my personal beliefs are that anyone who pays their dues and follows the rules of the clubs have a right to be there but you should be aware that their are those out there who only want people that fit into their tiny definitions of what a swingers is allowed in.

[AskMeOk 148]

Don't get stuck in the semantics.

 

This is going to sound like your mother, but what would a swing club be like if none of the women played?

 

In truth, you either add to the energy of a swing situation or you feed from it (to do both, simultaneously, is preferable). When there are more consumers than providers, the fun begins to end.....

[Newpants 21]

Don't get stuck in the semantics.

 

This is going to sound like your mother, but what would a swing club be like if none of the women played?

 

 

While I do believe everyone has the right to do what they choose as long as they pay the dues and follow the rules of the club there is some sense to this.

 

So let's play with semantics a bit and take the word swinging out and add in bowling instead. What if all the bowling alleys were to be flooded with nonbowlers who just went along so their bowling partner could bowl? If just one or two trickled in no one would notice or care.

 

As the numbers started to increase some of the bowlers would notice that as they asked someone if they wanted to bowl with them, the other people would say, "no thanks, I don't really bowl, I'm just here to watch Bob bowl.

 

The bowling alleys themselves wouldn't really care too much yet because people would still be paying their dues as well as buying drinks/burgers etc and all the cars in the parking lot would make look like a happening place.

 

As the numbers of nonbowlers increase though eventually the serious bowlers would be getting frustrated and pissed off at all the nonbowlers taking up space and would start saying, "bowling alleys are for bowlers and league nights are for people who want to actually bowl!"

 

(IMHO this is exactly what the nasty email that the OP received was saying)

 

I have read a lot of posts on other sites from long term swingers who claim that this is exactly what is taking place in a lot of clubs today.

[NCfuncouple98 367]

On a personal note/ response - it really annoys me (as half of a couple that plays - despite the fact that I'm bi) the number of couples who show up at clubs for only HER to play. It annoys me that these couples expect my SO to stand on the side and watch, that they assume that because I'm bi that that's ok with us.

 

That said, if you are in the room while he's playing, whether watching or playing with just him, then you are still and should be listed as a couple. If he plays alone (all or some of the time) he should be listed as a single and it should be made clear that he has a female half that is aware, gives permission and occasionally is there to watch and/or play with JUST him. It's much easier to make this info clear in an ad, much more difficult and the situation becomes much more cloudy in a club environment. I think it would be great if we could all wear signs on our foreheads that make our intentions clear at a club, but we can't, so until such a time as everyone shows up at the club with the exact same set of expectations and intentions... we just have to do our best to cut to the chase quickly and make it clear as early as possible as to not waste anyone's time.

 

What she said.

 

I will be honest I haven't read through all the responses, but I do have to say that there are SOOO many, at that same club, that have a couples profile and very clearly state "she's only here to play with the ladies, he does not swing or get involved, but may watch".

 

How is that any different, other than the role reversal here? Mr NC and I have seen many couples where the guy just stands back and she can do whatever she wants, so long as her guy is there. I don't see the difference, and I think you just have to ignore those that are against your personal situation. It's their problem, not yours.

 

If by not reading all of the responses I am off topic here, I do apologize.

[little firefly 64]

What she said.

 

I will be honest I haven't read through all the responses, but I do have to say that there are SOOO many, at that same club, that have a couples profile and very clearly state "she's only here to play with the ladies, he does not swing or get involved, but may watch".

 

How is that any different, other than the role reversal here? Mr NC and I have seen many couples where the guy just stands back and she can do whatever she wants, so long as her guy is there. I don't see the difference, and I think you just have to ignore those that are against your personal situation. It's their problem, not yours.

 

If by not reading all of the responses I am off topic here, I do apologize.

 

No need to apologize, you're right on topic! I too have seen several profiles like that and know a couple of couples personally from the club where the wife plays and the husband watches and then plays with her after she's finished....I don't see him and I as being any different from them except the roles are reversed....Oh well, double standards I guess....We're just going to keep going out there and having fun the way we always have and not worry about the way others feel we should be doing things. Life is too freakin short to lose any sleep over what other people think of us.....I can't say I can blame couples for getting pissed that I won't play though, after all I'm all that AND a bag of chips ....Ok, maybe not but that's what I like to think anyway!

[AskMeOk 148]

While I do believe everyone has the right to do what they choose as long as they pay the dues and follow the rules of the club there is some sense to this.

 

So let's play with semantics a bit and take the word swinging out and add in bowling instead. What if all the bowling alleys were to be flooded with nonbowlers who just went along so their bowling partner could bowl? If just one or two trickled in no one would notice or care.

 

As the numbers started to increase some of the bowlers would notice that as they asked someone if they wanted to bowl with them, the other people would say, "no thanks, I don't really bowl, I'm just here to watch Bob bowl.

 

The bowling alleys themselves wouldn't really care too much yet because people would still be paying their dues as well as buying drinks/burgers etc and all the cars in the parking lot would make look like a happening place.

 

As the numbers of nonbowlers increase though eventually the serious bowlers would be getting frustrated and pissed off at all the nonbowlers taking up space and would start saying, "bowling alleys are for bowlers and league nights are for people who want to actually bowl!"

 

(IMHO this is exactly what the nasty email that the OP received was saying)

 

 

I have read a lot of posts on other sites from long term swingers who claim that this is exactly what is taking place in a lot of clubs today.

 

 

I agree with everything you have written. However, I think the nasty email is just as likely written by a pissed off female that wanted sexc with the OPs male counterpart. The writer and SO could have had a couples only agreement and she couldn't play, if he wasn't allowed. We'll probably never know... but there are a lot of possibilities...

[curiousNWcouple 17]

So let's play with semantics a bit and take the word swinging out and add in bowling instead. What if all the bowling alleys were to be flooded with nonbowlers who just went along so their bowling partner could bowl? If just one or two trickled in noone would notice or care.

 

As the numbers started to increase some of the bowlers would notice that as they asked someone if they wanted to bowl with them, the other people would say, "no thanks, I don't really bowl, I'm just here to watch Bob bowl.

 

The bowling alleys themselves wouldn't really care too much yet because people would still be paying their dues as well as buying drinks/burgers etc and all the cars in the parking lot would make look like a happening place.

 

This is a very interesting way to look at the OP's issue. It's also great information to us since what we've been talking about would be a very similar situation (albeit, with the roles reversed). We haven't made it to a club yet, but this thread will give us plenty to consider if we ever take that step.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

 

....I've decided to keep the profile set as a couple but making sure that it states emphatically with no chance of misunderstanding that I don't play.

 

little firefly ~ It's been a few months since you posted this thread. How are things going at the club, and swinging in general?

 

Do you still have a "couple" profile, and if so, how are people responding to it?

[little firefly 64]

Thank you for asking LikeMinds. Things at the club have been going really good. We did decide to keep the couples profile and it states with no ifs and or buts that I don't play with anyone but him, but that I want to be there to interact with him when he does play. We figured that it would be a lie for him to have a singles profile seeing as how I'll be there when he plays anyway. He only ever plays at The Estate (his own choice), so most everyone knows of our situation to begin with.

 

He's had 3 occasions to play since I first made this post. Once with a couple who wanted him as a 2nd guy to help give the wife her birthday fantasy. The husband said he felt more comfortable having a guy who was part of a committed relationship instead of one who was single. The other 2 were single ladies (well one was totally single and the other was married with permission to play alone). I was present both times, once in a private room and once in the large group play room. I acted as his "fluffer" (I'm the only woman he's found so far who can deepthroat him which gets him more worked up than anything), so I would give him head to get him going then step back and let he and the other female have fun. Neither woman had any type of problem with me being there and knew that I WOULD be before even playing with him.

 

We did have a little bit of a problem last weekend with a wife who had had WAY too much to drink. She wanted badly to play with him but only wanted to do so if I played with her husband (same room). Her husband kept explaining to her that I'm not into playing but that she was more than welcome to go with him and me so that she could play with him. She kept hounding me to just "try it once and I'm sure you'll love it". Her husband finally had to call it a night so he could take her home to sleep it off. I told him I was sorry if I had ruined a chance for him to play but he assured me that he would never have played with her anyway as drunk as she was (that's a big turn-off to him).

 

He may not get to play as often as he might if I was a participant too but he's often told me that even if he only gets to play every few months that's perfectly fine with him. For him it's not that he gets to play often but that he does get to play sometimes.