Emotional & logistical problems of an open marriage

[CallMeLoki 32]

Btw, I saw the friends last night where I had asked the wife if she wanted to be a playmate. They seem to have pulled themselves out of the downward spiral that they apparently were in, and I'm very happy for them. I know she's trying hard to make things work (her main reason for saying no to me was "I don't want to damage my marriage"...quite a respectable reason). He seems to be putting considerable effort into doing the right things too, so I'm quite proud of him as well (and I suppose I need to tell him that). Ya know, I have to admit that I may have been wrong about him being a potential cheater...he and I ended up at a strip bar a month or so ago, and he wouldn't even buy a lap dance or let a stripper sit in his lap and talk to him. (Now, that may have been because he was with me and was afraid that his wife might ask me how he behaved, but regardless of the reasons he was very much a "good boy" rather than being even remotely naughty that night...I actually was quite surprised. He and I both talk a lot of junk and make jokes about many things that we'd never actually do in reality. We're all human and all a combination of many good and bad things. I think I probably made some misjudgements about him.) Anyway, I'm really happy for them, and I hope they continue to improve. Maybe some of their good kharma will rub off on us...I definitely have tried to help them both over the years, so maybe there's some kind of blessing in that for me and/or us.

 

The point of my post though...after seeing all of this mess, boy am I glad she said "no" to me. I'm really, really glad. If the situation could have been such that it was completely fair to him, I can certainly see now that it's not somewhere I should have even considered going. I'm pretty sure that I could manage my emotions just fine, I'm pretty sure that she could have managed hers, and I'm pretty sure that he could have managed his...but, what if we didn't? It could have really damaged those friendships.

 

I can also see that probably my biggest mistake in all this was saying "yes" to Sif's request for the alone time with the boy-toy and the open marriage arrangement. If I had said "no" to that request, then I doubt we would have ever gone down this road in the first place since Sif didn't want to do "normal" swinging. I would have been fine with keeping it all in fantasy-land. Bringing it to reality can certainly destroy the fantasies. I would encourage anyone reading this thread to learn from our mistakes.

 

Loki

[slevin 1,374]

BULLSHIT! I am not running off with anyone. I just need time to myself to recover mainly from the hurt in our marriage cause by ourselves.

 

Glad that you came back on here to check this thread out, but I am disappointed that you, yet again, resorted to an emotional response to posts here. Some of these replies may have seemed harsh against you, but they certainly weren't personal. It is too bad that you feel like you need to attack and defend rather than use this board for what it is really useful for: help, information and understanding. You threw all the good advice that was given to you back in everyones faces; you knew better, we didn't know the situation, we couldn't possibly understand. You've come back on here and done the same thing all over again (though the advice was directed at Loki and not you). Do I want to get in the middle of your drama? No. If you were interested in actually sorting out what was going on and getting insight and understanding, would I be happy to offer my opinion? Of course.

 

None of what you replied on here changed my view of whats going on in the background. I still really only have Lokis perspective on it though. All you have posted on here is stuff to try and be seen as a victim or things you allude to but do not explain (without vitriol attached).

 

Finally, I don't buy into the notion of needing space to work out your marriage. You need space to work out something in your own head. Working out a marriage should be done together and done as a team. It is something that both parties need to be invested in and done with no desire to 'be right' or to 'win'. What the posts over the last few days highlighted to me is that more than anything you guys need to wake up and be completely open and honest with each other. It is obvious that the communication between you is not good, moving out is only going to make that worse. You either need to work out that communication issue, or go your separate ways. Not sure which would be more healthy for the two of you, but at this point I am leaning towards a clean and amicable break. I don't see both sides with a real passion for making this marriage work; I see two sides wanting to be right.

[CallMeLoki 32]

...Perhaps he just does not know how to handle it, but instead of telling me all he did for me he could start with forgetting about what quest we were on and focusing on his wife...

 

I re-read just about this whole friggin' thread. I've been focused on my wife and what she wanted almost the whole time. About 7 of the 28 pages have a focus on me...the rest are focused on Sif.

 

For me, the biggest issue isn't even about getting laid or living out a fantasy...it's about commitments being broken. And that is a definite pattern in our marriage.

 

Loki

[ANGEDKY(mr) 100]

STOP !!!

 

A husband and wife arguing over the internet??? Really?

 

Cutting?? Seriously???

 

Lawyers, suits and undertones of abuse???

 

Come on, turn off the fucking computer, cancel the cell phones and FOCUS. You drug a child in the middle of this, she is seeing your bullshit first hand, she should be soooo proud The longer this crap occurs, the more damage is done to her !!

 

Got problems?? I'm sorry, get help. FOCUS on that help, the methods, the processes, ect... and be serious about applying it !!!

 

You are not the only victim on this board.

 

 

 

 

I can't believe I'm reading this..........

 

And by "You" I mean both!

[MrkLin 393]

I re-read just about this whole friggin' thread. I've been focused on my wife and what she wanted almost the whole time. About 7 of the 28 pages have a focus on me...the rest are focused on Sif.

 

That's what's really eating you, isn't it?

 

I read this whole train wreck of a thread just recently, and feel qualified to say: Loki - you're stupid.

 

You came in here full of piss and vinegar - but to what end? I can't help but think that Loki is a troll or someone doing his research thesis on how long people will listen to his bullshit stories before he finally just fades away into the dust.

 

Ok, I'll say it - shut the fuck up or seek professional help. Loki.

 

You came here seeking advice, then discarded that advice because you knew better. Well, we've all seen how far that's gotten you. You've done such a wonderful job so far, why do you need us?

 

I won't give you any advice, Loki - you haven't taken any so far. All I'll tell you is that you need to get professional help. It may be already too late for that, but you should try.

[knb2004 364]

Wow.

 

Somehow I had avoided this thread until today, when I read the whole thing start to finish. The funny thing is, I knew on the first few pages what I would find on the later ones, I just didn't know if the drama-bomb had yet gone off. Given there were 27 pages when I started reading (28 now) and they began in the summer, I correctly assumed it had.

 

I can't give any advice or make any observations that haven't been made a couple dozen times already. I think you both realize that the events of the last 6 months were the stimulus that brought other issues crashing to the surface... the last straw so to speak. Whether or not you can survive all of this depends in what your true hopes and motives are. Not what you write here or say to each other, but the thoughts you only share with yourselves.

 

I don't wish you a break-up, nor do I wish you a continued relationship. I wish you whatever is the right road to create the maximum love and happiness in your lives.

 

Whatever happens, please do us happy swingers the favor of NOT blaming swinging for any of your troubles. Swinging is a couples sport, to be engaged in for the enjoyment, benefit, and bonding it creates for a couple, and what you participated in is so far removed from healthy swinging that it doesn't deserve the use of the name. We face enough prejudices from vanilla society as it is, for someone to point to you guys and say, "See, that's what happens when you swing" just isn't right.

 

I wish you luck, now that I've read this whole sordid mess, I suppose I'll keep abreast of whatever updates you wish to share.

 

One final note: The very last thing your relationship needs at this point is even the idea of including other people in your sexuality. If it ever gets to that point that you feel that would be healthy for you, and IMO that's a very, very big if, forget the idea of having a little side-thing. As a couple, go to a swing club (and I'd recommend the first time with the rule that you are only there to observe.) 22 year old males do nothing but think with their cocks, and most 22 year olds are so happy to be getting any pussy from anyone under any terms they'll way too easily let themselves slip into relationship thinking. I would be very wary even of a married couple of that age for precisely that reason.

[WannabeSif 34]

Ok, I am going to stick to my therapist because she actually knows what she is talking about, as echoed by a couple on here I spoke to by phone who actually see that I have control of my life.....Whatever else you have to say here does not matter.....

[slevin 1,374]

Ok, I am going to stick to my therapist because she actually knows what she is talking about, as echoed by a couple on here I spoke to by phone who actually see that I have control of my life.....Whatever else you have to say here does not matter.....

 

Burning need to win and prove us all wrong, yet again? I am glad you're going to keep going to your therapist. I hope that she helps you and that both you and Loki come out of this happy (with whatever the outcome is).

[CallMeLoki 32]

Last night, I sat down and read Sif's entire chat log. All 73 pages of it from Oct 20 to Dec 2. I'll never trust this woman again. Plans to get me out of the way, begs for another hook-up, slams on me on almost every page, pathetic begging to have a real relationship with the boy-toy after she's gotten me out of the way, statements of love between them, threats to have lawyers screw me over, threats to disappear with my daughter...I don't even know what to say. If we didn't have a 6 yr old daughter, all of Sif's belongings would be sitting on the front lawn right now.

 

I will credit him with one thing: he made quite a few slams on me, encouraged Sif to leave, etc.,...but at least he had the common sense to realize he was too emotionally attached in a situation that wasn't good for any of us, and attempted to remove himself from it.

 

We are going to seperate after Christmas...I want to hold things together for the sake of our daughter until at least then. After that, Sif is welcome to go enjoy her boy-toy until her little heart is fulfilled.

 

Loki

[CallMeLoki 32]

I hope that she helps you and that both you and Loki come out of this happy (with whatever the outcome is).

 

Loki will definitely come out of this happy.

[CallMeLoki 32]

I'm reading back to chat logs from May 2008, before Sif's trip to his home town the first time. I see that Sif's intentions were totally good for us at that point. I'm trying to understand what went horribly wrong and why. At that point, Sif was telling the boy-toy that she wouldn't do anything that would endanger her marriage. I'm trying to understand how that turned into "I'll get rid of the husband".

 

Loki

[slevin 1,374]

I wouldn't waste a lot of time trying to logically sort out the process of something like that. It was something that occurred due to emotional thinking, logical thinking will never be able to follow it.

[knb2004 364]

Both slevin and chicup are right, as they have been throughout most of this thread dating back to it's beginning.

 

My take:

Ya'll fucked up, big time.

 

You were told the dangers of what you were proposing long before you did it, by people who have years of experience successfully inviting outsiders into their marital bed, and you blew it off. Both of you. I wasn't a participant in this thread in the early days, in fact as I noted until a few days ago I hadn't even read so much as the first post, had I been my advice would have been similar to that which you received. My personal opinion is that the best way to introduce newbies to the swinging world is for them to go to a club as observers and see where life takes them from there. What you guys did is so far off the mark that this outcome is, frankly, almost inevitable.

 

If I go to a racing forum and say "I'm planning to do X-Y-and Z what do you all think?" and people who have been racing for many, many years tell me I'm nuts and I'm going to end up killing myself I'm probably going to listen to them. Granted the situation here isn't as bad as death, but I bet it sure feels like it from time to time.

 

This is going to be repetitive, but it needs to be said. 22-year-old human males are pumped so full of testosterone that no matter where they are or what they are doing their primary motivation is to take action to get some pussy. Any pussy. At any price.

 

When they finally find someone who is willing to have sex with them, they will do, say, or give anything to not have to give that up.

 

But she's twice your age...

I don't care, I'm getting laid!

 

But she's married...

I don't care, I'm getting laid!

 

But you guys really aren't compatible outside the bedroom...

I don't care, I'm getting laid!

 

To a certain extent, this is actually a good thing, as ultimately it results in the propagation of the species and the continued existence of human beings. It also explains why so many marriages by men in that age range ultimately go south, as they really are thinking with the little head and not the big one. By the time they reach an age where the big one has asserted it's dominance, they realize they're married to a person they shouldn't be married to, and if push comes to shove I think most would admit they knew it all along and ignored it. That certainly describes my first failed marriage to a T.

 

But that's only half the story, for boy-toy's desires are really only relevant if they are reciprocated, which unfortunately for you, they seem to be. Why?

 

Butterflies.

 

You remember those, don't you? That flittering feeling you get in your gut when you think about your new love, that overwhelming urge to move heaven and earth to be with them. They're a natural part of human relationships, but they go away, even in the best of relationships. So someone has come along that makes your bride feel that way again, the way she used to feel about you, and it's damn disconcerting. "Holy shit, what do I do, I'm in love with him, not my husband!"

 

Only she's probably not. Even were she to leave you for him, even were she to marry him, it will eventually go away. And when it does, the real world will be staring her in the face.

 

You see, as I said before swinging is a couples sport. I do not mean to imply that bona-fide singles are not welcome or should not participate, what I mean is that if you are in fact part of a couple, it is something that should be partaken together, for the sake of both people. And even then, swinging is not for everyone, for you must be able to separate sex from love in order to be a successful swinger, and based solely on Sif's emotional reaction when returning from her first encounter with boy-toy I'd seriously question if she is capable of doing so.

 

But that's largely irrelevant, as you guys did not participate in anything even remotely resembling swinging. You sent her off to have an affair, Sport, and the only difference between her affair and a "normal" one is that you knew about it and encouraged it. That is ended (or rather, appears to be headed toward such an ending) the way many affairs do should not come as a that much of a shock.

 

Where do you go from here? What advice do I have? I don't know and none. Until and unless Sif decides that her goal is to fix your relationship there really is nothing more for you to do. If she does decide that, and you want it to, it will be hard but you may be able to pull it off. If splitting up is the right thing, so be it.

[WannabeSif 34]

Last night, I sat down and read Sif's entire chat log. All 73 pages of it from Oct 20 to Dec 2. I'll never trust this woman again. Plans to get me out of the way, begs for another hook-up, slams on me on almost every page, pathetic begging to have a real relationship with the boy-toy after she's gotten me out of the way, statements of love between them, threats to have lawyers screw me over, threats to disappear with my daughter...I don't even know what to say. If we didn't have a 6 yr old daughter, all of Sif's belongings would be sitting on the front lawn right now.

 

I will credit him with one thing: he made quite a few slams on me, encouraged Sif to leave, etc.,...but at least he had the common sense to realize he was too emotionally attached in a situation that wasn't good for any of us, and attempted to remove himself from it.

 

We are going to seperate after Christmas...I want to hold things together for the sake of our daughter until at least then. After that, Sif is welcome to go enjoy her boy-toy until her little heart is fulfilled.

 

Loki

 

Nope. I will be alone, sorting out the last twenty or so years of my life and also the last 15, along with the last 6months. I don't need a 22 year old to get laid, that was part of the "game" you wanted to play. I plan to focus on our daughter, my career, getting myself straightened out, and getting on with my life and putting this far behind me. You can watch me while I prove you wrong.

[CallMeLoki 32]

Nope. I will be alone, sorting out the last twenty or so years of my life and also the last 15, along with the last 6months. I don't need a 22 year old to get laid, that was part of the "game" you wanted to play. I plan to focus on our daughter, my career, getting myself straightened out, and getting on with my life and putting this far behind me. You can watch me while I prove you wrong.

 

I read a few recent pages in Sif's journal Monday also. I've asked her to let me read it again. Her journal leads me to believe what she's saying is the truth, and it gives me a little bit of hope. We had a marriage counseling session yesterday, which I feel like really helped me. My heart wants to believe what my wife is telling me rather than the conservation in her chat log. My mind is still struggling with it.

 

Loki

[slevin 1,374]

Have you considered that what she has written in her diary, what she says to your privately, what she says on here, what she says in marriage counselling and what she says to her boyfriend in chats are all true? I see no reason why one has to be true and the others false. Especially if you take into account the fact that Sif reacts to everything emotionally and not logically. It's true at the moment she says it, but that doesn't mean that it will be true in 10 minutes.

[CallMeLoki 32]

Have you considered that what she has written in her diary, what she says to your privately, what she says on here, what she says in marriage counselling and what she says to her boyfriend in chats are all true? I see no reason why one has to be true and the others false. Especially if you take into account the fact that Sif reacts to everything emotionally and not logically. It's true at the moment she says it, but that doesn't mean that it will be true in 10 minutes.

 

Yes, I am considering that. The chat log doesn't match anything else that she's said to me, said to any of our friends, to our marriage counselor, written in her own private journal that she never expected me to read, etc. Sif told our marriage counselor yesterday that she was in a state where she'd say anything to keep his attention. I'm in the process of making that leap of faith to believe her in this...that the chat log was "fantasy" moreso than reality. (She also told our MC that she had been depending on me to rescue her from this, and that I did not...I realize and accept that I share the responsibility in letting this get out of hand...I ignored red flags when I should not have.)

 

That said, I *think* I agree with her that we still need to seperate to give each of us some time to heal. If that's what she needs, I'm certainly going to give it to her. I don't think either one of us is in a state where we can make good decisions about our marriage, and I don't think we can talk rationally about where to go from here at this point. I do know that neither one of us should be making any irreversible decisions at this point. I think I finally have my wits about me again.

 

Loki

[CallMeLoki 32]

See folks, 14 years ago when we were first seeing each other and Sif was still essentially trapped with an abusive live-in boyfriend, she confessed something to me that she didn't have to...I would have never even known if she hadn't told me...she told me anyway at the risk of losing me entirely because it was that important to her to be honest with me and to have a clear conscience. That's the kind of human being that Sif is. Ever since that day 14 years ago, I have completely, absolutely, entirely trusted this woman.

 

And that's why that chat log was such a devastating shock to me. I have to remind myself that when she's in a highly emotional state that she will say things that she truly doesn't mean or never would actually do (we all do...I sometimes say things that I really don't mean when I'm angry...like the statement above about never trusting her again). That's one of the things I've struggled with over the years, sorting out what she truly means from things that she says while she's angry, hurt, or in an emotional state. Something she's struggled with over the years is not saying things she doesn't actually mean.

 

Loki

[slevin 1,374]

Stop looking at what she says and look at what she does. Actions tell the truth, words don't.

[Alura 2,766]

Nope. I will be alone, sorting out the last twenty or so years of my life and also the last 15, along with the last 6months. I don't need a 22 year old to get laid, that was part of the "game" you wanted to play. I plan to focus on our daughter, my career, getting myself straightened out, and getting on with my life and putting this far behind me. You can watch me while I prove you wrong.

 

Do you plan to prove Loki wrong in the same way you've proved everyone in this forum wrong, Sif? If so, it looks like your marriage is doomed.

 

The people on this board have told you that you do not need a separation. You need to come closer together. You need to stop "proving" each other wrong and focus on proving that both y'all are wise enough and committed enough to sort out the problems and make your marriage work. Unless and until that happens, both y'all can probably look forward to a sorry life for a long time, maybe the rest of it. The saddest part is that y'all will start your daughter down the road to a similar existence.

 

It's better to be wise than to always be right.

 

Mr. Alura

[WannabeSif 34]

Have you considered that what she has written in her diary, what she says to your privately, what she says on here, what she says in marriage counselling and what she says to her boyfriend in chats are all true? I see no reason why one has to be true and the others false. Especially if you take into account the fact that Sif reacts to everything emotionally and not logically. It's true at the moment she says it, but that doesn't mean that it will be true in 10 minutes.

 

 

Ban me if you must, but SCREW YOU slevin. You are a dispicable person.

[WannabeSif 34]

I am wise. Our marriage is in shambles and I don't need to be right. Everyone who knows me, including my counselor, thinks this is a wise choise. It will improve our chances for reconciliation to give ourselves a break, and it will protect our daughter from the sad stalemate that is our marriage. I am not the one who said what we were doing was a good idea, but I said I trusted the person I was doing it with. I still do. I was given a gift and I took it. Again, I dont need to be right, I just want time to be myself for the first time in my life. Let she/he who is without sin/mistakes cast the LAST STONE!

[NCfuncouple98 367]

I think you are both at a point, Loki and Sif, that this board is not where you need to be seeking advice, approval, criticism, or anything else.

 

This board is an open forum for swinging, both good experiences and bad, advice, input, and sharing of events and emotions.

 

What your marriage is going through no longer involves the concept of swinging. Please do yourself, and all of us, a favor, and focus on your family and your daughter. I recommend you stay off of these boards. Continue your marriage counseling, and come back in a few months and give us an update. Until then, there is nothing else this board can offer you. You have heard and read a lot of advice from a multitude of sources, but in your current situation, nothing here can help further.

 

We wish you both all the luck and hope in the world.

[CallMeLoki 32]

...Please do yourself, and all of us, a favor, and focus on your family and your daughter. I recommend you stay off of these boards. Continue your marriage counseling, and come back in a few months and give us an update. Until then, there is nothing else this board can offer you...

 

I completely agree with what you've said.

 

Loki

[bbarnsworth 2,543]

Ban me if you must, but SCREW YOU slevin. You are a dispicable person.

 

Uh, what Slevin was saying was in SUPPORT of you. Wow.

[bbarnsworth 2,543]

I think you are both at a point, Loki and Sif, that this board is not where you need to be seeking advice, approval, criticism, or anything else.

 

This board is an open forum for swinging, both good experiences and bad, advice, input, and sharing of events and emotions.

 

What your marriage is going through no longer involves the concept of swinging. Please do yourself, and all of us, a favor, and focus on your family and your daughter. I recommend you stay off of these boards. Continue your marriage counseling, and come back in a few months and give us an update. Until then, there is nothing else this board can offer you. You have heard and read a lot of advice from a multitude of sources, but in your current situation, nothing here can help further.

 

We wish you both all the luck and hope in the world.

 

Chicup said it more succinctly, but both this and Chi's post are spot on. I said as much earlier when I said the Sif and Husband were beyond the help of this board. The advice wasn't taken then, probably won't be taken now. Oh well.

[Ruff 105]

This has to have been a fake thread from the beginning, I mean the red flags were so obvious and then the whole "I've just read her chat logs" like it NEVER occurred to him to read at least one BEFORE he lets the college aged hormone machine spooged all over and in his wife? Have to give him/her/them (?) credit though, they did keep many, many people on the hook for 3-4 mths AND then came back for a 2 wk cameo...

[CallMeLoki 32]

This has to have been a fake thread from the beginning, I mean the red flags were so obvious and then the whole "I've just read her chat logs" like it NEVER occurred to him to read at least one BEFORE he lets the college aged hormone machine spooged all over and in his wife? Have to give him/her/them (?) credit though, they did keep many, many people on the hook for 3-4 mths AND then came back for a 2 wk cameo...

 

Uh, dude, believe what you want, but this is real. It DID occur to me to go read her chat logs...she shared them with me several times before she made her 1st trip to his area. I was looking for any alarms that she might not be safe with him. I think I asked to read them once after her trip but before the plan was made for him to come here. From reading the whole picture from a couple weeks before he came to a month and a half after, it seems that my wife's animosity toward me showed up after I started actively looking for my own playmate. If I had read her chat log the week before he came here, I would have called a stop to the whole thing. But I didn't feel like I needed to read them...we had made some very strong promises to each other and I completely trusted her to keep them. Oh how I WISH I'd read those damned chat logs the week before he came here. (Of course, who knows...even if I had, we might still be where we are now...if she's this hurt/angry because the weekend didn't go well, she might be the same hurt/angry that it didn't happen at all?) I think she got sucked in over her head without me realizing it...I acted like a trusting fool and let it happen right under my nose.

 

Believe me, pal, it's all real.

 

Loki

[Ruff 105]

In this scenario, whether real or imagined:rolleyes:, it is more than obvious to everyone reading that there were problems with it. What the supposed "incident" was in fact, was a cuckholding in progress rather than a "swing experience". (and not a swing-related cuckholding for those who want to say that is part of the LS) The wife in this drama has taken advantage of the opportunity to cheat on her husband in private and then in his face with him being "forced" off to the side at her whim. Now I know he had the "carrot" of his own FMF 3sum to make him willing to swallow this load but still she fucks Doogie Howser as soon as you leave with the kids? C'mon that's just disrespect with a capital "Fuck Him".

Also from the supposed reactions of the 2 of them it sounds like either you were hounding them for "action" or.... THEY JUST WANTED TO FUCK LIKE RABBITS AND BE LEFT ALONE! Screw your plans for the LS and 3sums...

She/It/They admitted she's not a swinger and never will be that doesn't mean she wouldn't fuck a guy behind your back or in front of your face... it just means you won't like it.

 

 

Another point to be made, anyone else notice in the story that the wife and paperboy, I mean "boyfriend" were in engaged in cybering for mths on end and then we get this elaborate online tale of woe, sex gone wrong and chat logs aplenty?

 

 

 

 

Uh, dude, believe what you want, but this is real. It DID occur to me to go read her chat logs...she shared them with me several times before she made her 1st trip to his area. I was looking for any alarms that she might not be safe with him. I think I asked to read them once after her trip but before the plan was made for him to come here. From reading the whole picture from a couple weeks before he came to a month and a half after, it seems that my wife's animosity toward me showed up after I started actively looking for my own playmate. If I had read her chat log the week before he came here, I would have called a stop to the whole thing. But I didn't feel like I needed to read them...we had made some very strong promises to each other and I completely trusted her to keep them. Oh how I WISH I'd read those damned chat logs the week before he came here. (Of course, who knows...even if I had, we might still be where we are now...if she's this hurt/angry because the weekend didn't go well, she might be the same hurt/angry that it didn't happen at all?) I think she got sucked in over her head without me realizing it...I acted like a trusting fool and let it happen right under my nose.

 

Believe me, pal, it's all real.

 

Loki

[ItchyNScratchy 15]

Irresponsibility. No single raindrop believes it is to blame for the flood.

[Chicup 38]

Ruff I've been on and around internet chat boards since they first started having them, and while anything is possible it is not probable that loki made up an elaborate troll post.

 

I had the same feelings at first, just because of the insanity of it, but trolls very quickly tire of their work, and don't go off on so many odd tangents.

 

No, I'm afraid this one is real. I'd prefer it to be a troll post, I understand trolls better than what happened here

[bbarnsworth 2,543]

I don't particularly care if we were trolled or not. To me, the effect is the same. I'm not going to exert any more energy on these people. They've routinely ignored advice and are responsible for getting themselves in the situation they are in. To cap it off, they are now in a place in their relationship where they need professional help. The advice and aid of even the best intentioned posters here can not match that of a professional in this case.

 

The only thing I hope to see from this thread is that it either dies or we hear some long distance down the road that they reconciled or divorced.

[NCfuncouple98 367]

The only thing I have left to say on this:

 

This is the perfect post to send all newbies to. Anyone considering swinging that is still "curious", "trying to convince a partner", etc. Because this will absolutely enlighten a lot of folks that are considering similar situations.

 

I hope many can learn from this catastrophe, and realize that this is NOT swinging.

[mfmyeahbaby 19]

my friend you sound exactly like us. you have absolutely all the ingredients to have a very explosive sexually charged great time. you have a great history between you guys (sex, love, friendship) and you are turned on by her charged nature for this guy (who is harmless to you as a couple as long as you respect your boundaries) which for me is the main reason why mfm play is my preferred play. I suspect that he will (if he hasn't already) show you guys much respect for your relationship (mainly because of the upfront nature especially from her) since it's nothing left for deceit, why not play by the rules and enjoy. I've been lucky to have enjoyed many mfm sessions where my wife and I and (my life long friend) our chosen third enjoyed great sex he fully respects our boundaries and plays within them and nothing they can ever do sexually can ever cause us any issues. I think your starting out in a way that may open many doors but at the same time teach you what you do and don't enjoy with respect.

[Ruff 105]

This definitely shows the perils of posting to a VERY long thread without reading all the way to the end...

man, did I cringe while reading this.

 

 

my friend you sound exactly like us. you have absolutely all the ingredients to have a very explosive sexually charged great time. you have a great history between you guys (sex, love, friendship) and you are turned on by her charged nature for this guy (who is harmless to you as a couple as long as you respect your boundaries) which for me is the main reason why mfm play is my preferred play. I suspect that he will (if he hasn't already) show you guys much respect for your relationship (mainly because of the upfront nature especially from her) since it's nothing left for deceit, why not play by the rules and enjoy. I've been lucky to have enjoyed many mfm sessions where my wife and I and (my life long friend) our chosen third enjoyed great sex he fully respects our boundaries and plays within them and nothing they can ever do sexually can ever cause us any issues. I think your starting out in a way that may open many doors but at the same time teach you what you do and don't enjoy with respect.

[Cpl2share 147]

Watched this thread from the beggining. Didn't feel any need to add to the good advice of the other "old timers". But I gotta say. Either someone is making up a bunch of BS or they are completely stupid! I love Mrs. Cpl dearly and there are things in her past that I know about. There are things in my past that she knows about. Here is the crux: IF she had been raped by two guys at the age of 17 I would shoot my pecker off before I ever considered asking her for a threesome with another guy. Who in the hell has that kind of thought with that kind of history? I stand by my opinion: Loki: Either you are full of shit or just plain an inconsiderate stupid man.

[avid 134]

Either someone is making up a bunch of BS or they are completely stupid! Here is the crux: IF she had been raped by two guys at the age of 17 I would shoot my pecker off before I ever considered asking her for a threesome with another guy. Who in the hell has that kind of thought with that kind of history? I stand by my opinion: Loki: Either you are full of shit or just plain an inconsiderate stupid man.

 

 

Sadly, Cpl, estimates are that 1 in 3 women have experienced some kind of sexual or physical abuse in their life. If never having lived this abuse was a criteria for swinging, there would be a whole lot fewer swingers out there.

 

History of abuse is not a sentence to lifelong victimization.

 

Besides that, I feel that Loki is dealing with enough without calling him names.

[CallMeLoki 32]

Thanks for that last post...yeah, I'm dealing with enough already without being called more names than I already have.

 

Sif and I separated the 2nd weekend in January...she moved out and got an apartment. I won't even go into any details from along the way...it'll just get me feeling PO'd again.

 

I've had a few weeks of solitude to let my emotions settle a little. End result: I feel very betrayed by my wife. I did after first reading her chat logs, and I still do now. I said "yes" far too many times merely because I wanted her to enjoy herself and her "gift". I did the same things for her that I'd want her to do for me. (Isn't that how we're supposed to treat each other?) I see this as equivalent to giving someone a really nice set of cutlery, they say "thanks!", then they proceed to cut your arm off with one of the knives. I think I've certainly learned a few lessons, including some hard ones about not allowing my own boundaries to be crossed.

 

Loki

[CallMeLoki 32]

...Loki: Either you are full of shit or just plain an inconsiderate stupid man.

 

Cpl2share...I've had enough name-calling from my loving and considerate wife over the past month to last me a lifetime. Fuck you and the brilliant white horse you rode in on. My stupidity was in absolutely trusting my wife to not make choices that would hurt me or our marriage. She pursued what she wanted without regard for my feelings or our commitments to each other.

 

Loki

[MrkLin 393]

Holy Mother of Pearl - is this thread still here...?

 

Think I'll write a book about it, then maybe sell it as a screenplay.

 

Nahhhhh... Nobody would believe it - it needs a car chase or two...

[NCfuncouple98 367]

[CallMeLoki 32]

 

 

Ditto that!

[2plus2fun 143]

 

lol

[WannabeSif 34]

CLOSE THIS DAMNED THREAD ALREADY! How do I unsubscribe to it? I am so sick of seeing all the BULLSHIT about me already! Takes two to tango, and one to plant the suggestion.....Boundaries my ass. The whole friggin scene was past my boundaries.....I was not emotionally equipped to handle it.

 

Thanks.

[Chicup 38]

CLOSE THIS DAMNED THREAD ALREADY! How do I unsubscribe to it? I am so sick of seeing all the BULLSHIT about me already! Takes two to tango, and one to plant the suggestion.....Boundaries my ass. The whole friggin scene was past my boundaries.....I was not emotionally equipped to handle it.

 

Thanks.

 

 

User CP

 

Edit email/password.

 

Change the email to something invalid.

 

Never see another email from SB again.

 

Profit.

 

This thread is far to valuable a lesson to close, in fact it should be stickied.

[MrkLin 393]

I was not emotionally equipped to handle it.

 

FINALLY - a factual statement in this thread...!

 

 

Suggestion - delete the bookmark to this board and never look at it again, and by all means, quit coming back. Seriously - if it pisses you off that much, why do you keep coming back to read it? Delete your profile, eliminate the bookmark to this site from your web browser, then forget this place even exists.

 

I doubt you'll do that. You both love the attention. I have a feeling that you're both reading this and loving every minute of it.

 

The only way to prove me wrong is to never reply to this thread again.

[ANGEDKY(mr) 100]

I'm speechless.

 

You're tired of seeing our opinion to a situation that YOU WANTED, DEFENDED and RECIEVED, all against our advice? The IRONY being said advice was soliticed by YOU ??? (read: you as a couple--you both did post here correct??)

 

 

Talk about Bullshit Your condescending tone really really pissed me off--How about taking some responsibility for your actions??

 

motherofgod my head hurts

 

 

............Think of the bunny

[theboy 175]

I just read this entire thread. Epic. Reminds me of another forum I post at where a lot of personal advice is often asked, and ignored. Here's what's often posted to summarize it, and always makes me laugh:

 

OP: "Help! HELP! I'm stuck in a well!!!"

 

posters1-4: "Climb! Climb up and take our hands!"

 

OP: "I'm thinking I should dig... should I dig?"

 

poster5: "NO! I was trapped in a well, and digging is a bad idea! Climb out!"

 

posters6-8: "Were lowering ropes! Take hold of a rope!"

 

poster9: "I've even tied a harness to the end of this one!"

 

OP: "I can feel the ropes, but I don't want to hold onto them... should I dig?"

 

poster10: "No! If you dig, you'll hit water, and then you'll be proper fucked. I should know, I almost drowned."

 

OP: "I dug a little bit just now, and I haven't hit water. I'm gonna keep digging..."

 

posters11-18: "No! Climb! Climb out!"

 

OP: "Guys, I'm seriously stuck in this well! Help! HELP!!!"

 

poster19: "I was trapped in a well once. It took me two years, but I managed to build a climbing machine that pulled me to safety out of a well bucket and a pocket watch. I'm dropping the blueprints, extra buckets, and an assortment of pocket watches."

 

poster20: "I've engineered a jet-pack that will rocket you to safety. Stay where you are and we'll lower it down!""

 

"OP: "Thanks for your help, guys. I'm gonna keep digging. I'll find the Mines of Moria and I'll just walk to the surface."

 

**posters1-20 piss in the well**

 

poster21: "Guys, seriously... stop peeing in the well.""

[2inSanDiego4u 181]

CLOSE THIS DAMNED THREAD ALREADY! How do I unsubscribe to it? I am so sick of seeing all the BULLSHIT about me already! Takes two to tango, and one to plant the suggestion.....Boundaries my ass. The whole friggin scene was past my boundaries.....I was not emotionally equipped to handle it.

 

Thanks.

 

 

[azaria_lyn 15]

Wow, I just read your playtime agreement and it almost brought tears to my eyes! This could be adapted for ANY type of relationship where each person is committed to loving the other and helping them grow. I'm going to share it with my fiance....I think it's a great "contract" to read together