For those who don't use condoms

[eurotrash 15]

I started barebacking recently with a couple. They didn't say anything about condoms. The chemistry was right. It just happened.

 

I ejaculate where she wants it

 

I prefer sex without a condom in general, so, of course, I prefer playing with couples without a condom.

[appliancesex 66]

Wow. talk about food for thought.

 

P and I were reading this and we didn't even realize that there was such a thing as 'bareback couples.' Now i feel like the noob.

 

When we saw people at first posting about how condoms don't offer much protection against STD's, we did Google it.

 

That said, people randomly posting hypothetical statistics, you should know that 80% of statistics are made up, and there is only a 50% chance of that.

 

Anyhow, we use condoms for intercourse with others, but ironically never use it for oral sex, which is ironic since that's worse than vaginal/anal intercourse. we can't stand the taste of plastic in our mouth, and nonoxyl-9 numbs the hell out of my mouth.

 

That said, if a bicycle helmet would increase my chance of survival during a plane crash even in the slightest bit, I would still wear it if given the chance.

[slevin 1,374]

Where do you see statistics that say oral sex has higher STD transmission rates than vaginal/anal? Everything I have found in my research says exactly the opposite.

[The Fuse 1,012]

A close friend of mine recently told me he got herpes as a young man, something like 19 or 21 years old. He gave it to another woman before he realized what it was.

 

This friend has been married for almost two decades. He says he only has breakouts a few times a year. Also, surprisingly, he has managed his condition well enough to have never given it to his wife. They don't have sex when he has sores. He's also had more than one long-term affair (not with me!) and has never given it to any of his lovers after the one mentioned above, when he didn't realize he had herpes. And he doesn't use condoms with his wife or any of the women he has affairs with.

 

I realize this is anecdotal and second-hand (or third-hand). But it's at least one case where in spite of hundreds of "fucks", he's not transmitted herpes to anyone.

 

Oh, and yes, this seems highly unlikely. But I believe him.

[appliancesex 66]

slevin said:

Where do you see statistics that say oral sex has higher STD transmission rates than vaginal/anal? Everything I have found in my research says exactly the opposite.

 

Hiya slevin,

 

Sorry for the delay. P and I went to Sedona for the evening. Wish there was someone we could have enjoyed our private jacuzzi with, but I digress. To answer your questions:

 

oral manifestations of orogenital bacterial infections

basically suggests that gonorrhea and syphilis are commonly transferred through unprotected oral sex...

 

STD-wise, how risky is oral sex? - new scientist article, exactly what it sounds like.

 

risk of hiv Infection through receptive oral sex - University of California, San Francisco

 

CDC has a page seemingly aimed at teens about chlamydia and it states it can be transmitted anally, vaginally or orally

 

All that said, we will continue to not use condoms during oral sex. For one thing, the use of a barrier definitely makes it more difficult to bring either a woman or a man off as it creates some desensitization. The last thing I need is my jaw to fall asleep during my time with either a man or a woman.

 

Just curious. but where did you get your research from?

[slevin 1,374]

I took a few weeks of spare time and looked through the secondary research you find in places like the CDC and most other sex health sites. I noted where they referenced other research to look for the primary research on the topic then sought out those primary sources. I was shocked to find that many of the assertions drawn from the primary research were not actually confirmed by the primary research. This was all a couple of years ago and I did it purely to inform myself and make my own decisions on the subject. I've posted a few links to some of that in the past, but 'good times' has posted far more than I have on the subject. Everything he has posted I've found to be correct in my own research.

 

So, I don't have a nice easy link to show you that shows the transmission rates. Based on what I see on your links though, none of them say that oral sex has higher transmission incidence than anal or vaginal sex. They just indicate that it is possible to transmit STDs via oral sex. My understanding is that the likelihood of transmitting an STD via oral sex is lower than the likelihood of transmitting it via anal or vaginal sex. It's still possible though and is therefore a risk.

 

This is an interesting table for you though; it shows the various types of sexual activities and the types of STDs that can be transmitted

 

SFCC :: STD Basics : STD Risks Chart

[appliancesex 66]

slevin said:

This is an interesting table for you though; it shows the various types of sexual activities and the types of STDs that can be transmitted

 

SFCC :: STD Basics : STD Risks Chart

 

I think that chart does very well. All this seems to fall under the heading of doomed if you do, doomed if you don't. Lord knows what the real statistics are, since what I showed you doesn't really amount to anything more than "We think this will prove that it's riskier."

That said, for us at least, that if condoms have a higher chance of protecting people from whatever, then we are at a higher risk of getting something since we won't use them while orally satisfying someone.

I think the only thing that one can do is use caution and experience. If something looks or smells fishy (sorry), then proceed with caution. That goes for using condoms or not!

[Lascivious L&L 865]

Sometimes it amazes me how poorly some scientists understand psychology. In that panel discussion about the risks of HIV transmission via oral, they really glide over how they can be sure of the self-reporting of risk activities in such studies. To be sure of oral transmission they have to be certain that only oral sex was performed. How they can be confidant of that is beyond me.

 

Sex is the one thing people lie most about, are most ignorant about, and most private about. To not understand the psychological pressure many people feel against admitting to anal sex means ascribing risk to oral that may well belong to anal.

 

Also, being clear whether ejaculation has occurred is not easy being the receptive party. If you've never sucked a cock till it came, you'd have no idea that sometimes you can't tell if the person ejaculated merely by feeling the ejaculation in your mouth. The quantity is not much, the taste is not powerful, and there is a lot of saliva there, so it can and does get lost in the heat of the moment.

[Pussylicker4u 51]

I have used condoms in the past but I prefer bareback. My wife prefers bareback also and she loves to have cum inside her. I find that these days I just simply get turned off and go limp every time I try to put on a condom so for me condom usage is a definite no no. As far as std's go condoms aren't 100 percent effective. Not to mention my viewpoint on barebacking is that it takes two to play and if your going to bareback you have to know your risks and be willing to accept those risks. Besides we weren't put on this planet with a rubber on our peckers so why do it any other way than bare.

[Emmywammy 45]

I've always required a full panel test less than a month old with their real name along with their ID (Seriously) before any activity. Having a rubber barrier between sexual contact makes the experience seem superficial.

 

Plus, I have a thing for cum. Sex with a man wearing a condom is extremely anticlimactic.

[mikeswinger56 15]

My wife and I swing with str8 males only. Most of which we do not meet online. Some from Club Wicked, most from other cities and almost always on a trip or vacation. So I will say this, if it is a once or twice thing, condoms for sure. If it involves someone we meet with often it does evolve into a bareback situation. At this point we have never done a cream pie. However we are having 2 of our favorite camera friendly gentlemen coming down for the 5th Saturday in a row. As things have evolved to bareback we do a lot of double vag. We both would like her to feel two loads shooting in her at once. And she wants me in deep right after.

 

Should we do it?

[bbarnsworth 2,536]

mikeswinger56 said:

As things have evolved to bareback we do a lot of double vag. We both would like her to feel two loads shooting in her at once. And she wants me in deep right after.

 

Should we do it?

 

That's a question that only you and your wife can answer. There certainly are risks in going bareback, including disease and pregnancy. How you decide what your comfort level is is entirely up to the two of you. We can't decide that for you.

 

Just be careful.

[mikeswinger56 15]

We've talked about it for a while. I brought it up. This is the most sexually supercharged we have ever been. We share a lot of the same fantasies. We established likes and dislikes early. When the right circumstances have come up she has always played along, even let me put up a pic of her for our profile. That was taken after our amazing m/mfm on Saturday. I find her the sexiest woman in the world. It goes nice with our fave position, her up on pillows with her head up. Her getting penetrated deep missionary and me laying kinda sideways on the pillows while she moans with my cock in her mouth and we look at each other as her eyes gloss over. So she said "give the word". It would be hot watching her toes curl getting a load. We'll see tomorrow. A definite maybe.

[mde 4764 15]

We decided the risk were minimal and always played bareback. We never had any issues from it. We both dislike condoms. There is just to much loss of sensation with condoms and pleasure is what swinging is all about.

[toronto two 17]

Hi there. On our last encounter with a male in a MFM I remember hearing her in the bathroom saying "I can't believe how much cum I had inside me!". Priceless!!!!!

[BiloxiCouple 694]

Don't like them...that's it.

[Pussylicker4u 51]

As far as barebacking goes there has always been a big debate regarding safety vs sensuality. However I think going for what at feels good and natural is always better. My feelings are condoms take away from the true natural feeling of sex as it is just not the same. Not to mention it has been proven that a condom will protect against pregnancy and other STD's, however it doesn't protect a person from HIV. My take on the issue why swing at all or play with anyone for that matter if you are not aware of your risks involved. There are risks in everything we do in life and I sure as hell am willing to take them because nothing beats the feel of bareback sex so I'll take my chances. I am a bi male and my wife is straight as a nail and regardless of how we play we never use condoms and we always make sure our potential partners are okay with that before having sex. I enjoy my wife getting cum deep in her or on her and I enjoy it too as there's nothing better than seeing my wife quiver with delight as she takes a warm milky load. But that's just us as it's not for everyone.

[SexySixtiesMW 16]

You can only really get pregnant on one day a month...the 14th day after your period starts....so they write....however....most people would allow a few days on either side just in case....but....how hot would it be to play bareback on the 11th....or the 12th....or even the 13th day? How many of us would be "tempted?"

[funcoupledayton 2,707]

There is a window of more than one day because sperm can stay alive for a few days. Also, very few women have a perfectly timed cycle.

 

Personally, the thought of getting pregnant really, really scared me and is not at all hot. Maybe it is for men? I would think the prospect of getting a friend or stranger pregnant would be really frightening! You'd be possibly tied (financially or otherwise) to that person for at least the next 18 years. Blech! It makes me sick to think about it.

 

I am so happy to have my tubes tied and that my husband has had a vasectomy!!

[funcoupledayton 2,707]

I just saw this booty call on a site I'm on:

 

Need For Seed -- Must be HEALTHY, FERTILE, under 35, NO STRINGS ATTACHED Please have some physical qualities similar to my husband...caucasian, tall, blond to light brown hair

 

The husband is in his late 40's, wife mid-40's. I am hoping she is not fertile and this is just a scenario they are playing with not actually trying to have a baby this way. Is that judgmental?

[km34 672]

I enjoy reading CL ads in my spare time... You'd be surprised at how many people would actually go about getting pregnant this way. Or at least say they want to attempt it.

[highlander 21]

. I am hoping she is not fertile and this is just a scenario they are playing with not actually trying to have a baby this way. Is that judgmental?

 

When someone uses a sperm donor via a fertility clinic, they know VERY little about their sperm donor-even whether it is someone they would even _like_.

 

A while back there was a doctor who operated a fertility clinic, and it came to light he had fertilized hundreds of women with his own sperm, while claiming to be using anonymous donors. Somehow, I think the folks in that ad (if they are real) are making a better choice than the folks in that clinic.

 

I've known women in bad marriages that quite systematically made sure none of their children were their husband's so that when the divorce came, there wouldn't be custody issues.

[SwingerGirl 131]

I know this post is old and hasn't been updated in a while, but I would like to say thanks for it anyway! I am researching STD's still, but I was very surprised to find other women posting in this thread and others that have the same... erm... preference I do I mean, no one particularly likes to use condoms, I'm sure. But I reaaaalllly don't want to use them. I have heard many men saying that the sensation is just not the same with a condom on, but not very many women (before now). I was starting to think I was a bit of a rarity

 

Right now, I insist on condoms, and even suggest them for oral (bleh!), but I find this a really hard rule to keep. I have considered asking for test results. I even had an encounter yesterday (my first since starting as a single gal, yay!) and I could tell he was not into the idea of using a condom and insisted that he gets regular checks. So I mentioned that he bring his results and we could discuss going forth bareback after getting to know each other more. I do realize that this still holds a risk, especially for people with multiple sex partners, because I can never be sure that he won't catch and pass something in between tests (or vise versa). However, I do think that it will make me more comfortable at least knowing that the person I am playing with takes their sexual health seriously.

[highlander 21]

I guess one question to ask yourself: would putting testing into your mix of precautions be easier for you than condoms?

 

I think it is perfectly reasonable for you to insist any partner present you with recent negative test results for HIV-and all treatable STD's. The ones that might be tricky are HSV I& HSVII - those are ones that a lot of folks have. However, you can look for partners that are either

a) HSV - _or_ have had it long enough it isn't as contagious.

 

Another thing you can do: really avoid partners who are users of hard drugs or have drinking issues. Those folks may be HIV- at the moment-but they are more likely to become HIV+. That is 10-20% of potential partners, but over 80% of the potential risk.

 

Yes, using condoms adds some additional safety, but that isn't an excuse not to do other stuff you can do. I suspect you are an attractive woman with more potential partners than you can possibly accommodate - so selecting from the safest pool of playmates will still leave you with lots to choose from. Have FUN!!!

[jmaybebi 15]

Practical question - I read everywhere about 'sharing test results' and similar. It makes me curious, do most people actually receive physical results on paper?

 

The clinic where I go around here operates on the 'we will call you if there is any problem' method, which is basically the same as all healthcare professionals I have ever dealt with. No news is good news.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,019]

. . . The clinic where I go around here operates on the 'we will call you if there is any problem' method, which is basically the same as all healthcare professionals I have ever dealt with. No news is good news.

I too have wondered about this. When I donate blood, an HIV test is done but they never give a blue-ribbon sealed certificate. They do say they will call if a problem is discovered.

[highlander 21]

Practical question - I read everywhere about 'sharing test results' and similar. It makes me curious, do most people actually receive physical results on paper?

 

I have seen folks that found clinics who would give them printed test results-but you generally have to look for such a clinic. When I was in the SF Bay area, some clinics would specifically refuse to provide printed test results on the grounds people were forging these.

 

AIM Healthcare Foundation used to host results on their web site-and you had to have a long URL to get in-which was their security. AIM got shut down and the ground they lost control of some private information of adult actors. However, LA Public Health was gunning for them a LONG time-there is a big taboo on the idea of sharing test results as a preventive measure in the USA-but not places like Cuba (which despite being a poor 3rd world country has a lower HIV rate than Puerto Rico right next door).

 

Lots of folks just take others word for test results. The thing is: about 25% of folks that are HIV+ will lie about it to partners-and lots more will lie about whether they have in fact been tested. I think fewer will take the time to photoshop test documentation-but still that is too many.

 

"serosorting" in the gay community typically means a guy asking another "are you clean" as a prelude to a sexual encounter. That is much of the reason it just doesn't work that well-that and folks really would need to test much more frequently than the 180 average for it to work at all well. Despite that, serosorting provides some measurable benefits according to the studies on it.

[highlander 21]

I too have wondered about this. When I donate blood, an HIV test is done but they never give a blue-ribbon sealed certificate. They do say they will call if a problem is discovered.

 

I met a guy one time that said he'd take the male of potential swing couple partners to a blood clinic. They'd just put the others phone number down when they filled out paperwork-and do it in front of each other.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,019]

I met a guy one time that said he'd take the male of potential swing couple partners to a blood clinic. They'd just put the others phone number down when they filled out paperwork-and do it in front of each other.

Now that is interesting.

[SwingerGirl 131]

No one has ever asked for mine, but I just ask my OB/GYN for the results and she makes a copy.

[CandyCane 33]

This topic came up with some friends of ours a couple weeks back. We always use condoms! But, we do know of a few groups that don't. We just steer clear of them. A few years back a few people tested positive for herpes and it started name blaming and bashing. Also have seen a couple of pregnancies pop up. We all know even with condoms, things can happen, but why make it more risky by not using condoms. My hubby and I get tested twice a year. Just got tested two weeks ago! Everything clean! Our primary care doctor doesn't judge, she just asked that we be careful and test often.

[highlander 21]

A few years back a few people tested positive for herpes and it started name blaming and bashing...

 

I think a lot of folks have their heads in the sand on the issue of HSV. My own gut : if you swing long enough, there is a rather good chance you will get HSV-1 or HSV-2. The big thing is to be prepared to be VERY careful the next two years after you get it because it is 10 times as contagious during that period than afterwards.

 

What I have seen: most folks don't test for HSV so they don't even know if they have it or not. For most folks HSV is just mildly annoying, but that 2 years after they get it, they are much more vulnerable per contact than folks that are HSV- or have been HSV+ over two years.

 

I have NEVER had a potential partner offer to exchange HSV test results with me, but I have run into people who knew they were HSV-2 positive and were up front about it. The thing that is scary to me: nobody was informed by their doctors just how the infectivity tends to vary with time or how it is associated with vulnerability to other STD's.

[CandyCane 33]

That is why we like our primary care doctor. She says she never judges her patients as long as they are open and honest with her. We get the full panel of STD tests done. We pay out of pocket for it as our health insurance will not. But to us it's a few hundred dollars a couple times a year just for peace of mind. Yes we do know that condoms don't protect against some things. That is why we test and know what can happen.

[IEcouple 222]

I've known women in bad marriages that quite systematically made sure none of their children were their husbands-so that when the divorce came, there wouldn't be custody issues.

 

Seriously? Multiple women? Are you joking?

[Galanga 249]

Personally, I just don't worry about it. I'm 52 years old. I've been in the gangbang lifestyle since I was 17, and never use condoms. I've absorbed on the average 10 ejaculations every weekend for 35 years. A typical ejaculation discharges about 6 mL of semen. So my body has absorbed 35 X 52 X 10 X 6 = 110 liters (roughly 30 gallons) of semen. Aside from contracting Herpes when I was 16 (which I got from a monogamous boyfriend), I never caught anything. So, as I said, I just don't worry about it. I enjoy bareback intercourse, and I enjoy my life. And don't give me the trite "it's just a matter of time", because 35 years proves otherwise.

[dongnstein 17]

I had difficulty staying erect in a condom when I first started having sex with anonymous women and stopped using protection about 10 years ago. The only woman who scared me was a very thin lady in her 40's. I should have walked away but didn't. Fortunately, I stayed clean. I have to admit it's a major rush watching your spunk drip out of a strange woman's pussy

[couplers 4,140]

For what it's worth, I've racked up enough time living in Europe that I can no longer donate blood in the US any longer. The potential that I harbor the prion for TSE, otherwise known as mad cow disease, disqualifies me. Some people think of all the people they screwed, I count the burgers I ate in Britain.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,019]

. . . Some people think of all the people they screwed, I count the burgers I ate in Britain.

Now there's a fact of which I was not aware.

[couplers 4,140]

Now there's a fact of which I was not aware.

 

I meant for lifestyle health risks, not in general.

[Rocketchassie69 22]

I prefer bare, I know my wife does too. But I leave it up to the woman, it's 50/50 with them.