Activities with cheating men. Thoughts?

[spectraschain 21]

gives swinging a very bad name

That, my friends, is absolutely [highlight]priceless[/highlight].

[intuition897 2,177]

That, my friends, is absolutely [highlight]priceless[/highlight].

 

You talk as though there's nothing good about swinging? Swinging does have a bad name...among those in the mainstream. It's the less-than-honourable behaviour of some of the participants that has contributed to this. So what if everyone behaved morally and ethically? Would swinging still have a bad name? That would be a resounding yes. But at least they'd just be ignorant about us...not right. When we behave badly, it proves them right. There is SOOO much bullshit being slung around about swingers and the lifestyle and most of it is distorted fiction. I personally don't want such ignoramuses to be right about anything that I do in this regard. I'd like to just be able to say to them, "You're an ignorant idiot. Get a clue."

[curiousagain 326]

I was just gonna pop in with my usual "enough trouble finds you, don't go looking for it" that I always give on this subject. But, today I was reading a news story where a man shot another man who was having an affair with his wife. Then she lost her job because of the affair. Her lover dead, husband jailed, jobless, and homeless, she attempted suicide and then their kids were placed in the care of the state.

 

 

There's a moral to that story somewhere. I don't think anybody came out good in that scenario. Living in a glass house, I'm not going to pass judgement on anyone. But, I try to avoid those kind of scenarios.

[Tybee Swing 286]

There is SOOO much bullshit being slung around about swingers and the lifestyle and most of it is distorted fiction.

 

Hi Intuition,

 

Sadly, I believe that a lot of what is slung around about swingers isn't fiction at all. From what I've observed, there are a number of swingers that I would classify as nothing less than pigs. Not us, of course! But like any large and diverse group, we are all different. We all conduct ourselves differently. Unfortunately, there is a significant number of people calling themselves swingers that are lacking in intelligence and good common sense, are irresponsible, indiscreet, drunkards, drama queens, liars, bad parents, and more.

 

Just as in any large population of people, the worst of the group are the most visible and usually get noticed more. I'll use my own region for an example. People stereotypically think of south Georgians as slow, inarticulate rednecks. I could make a great argument against that by talking about those of us who are not, but the fact is, there are a lot of moronic rednecks in the region. It's probably not as much of the population down here as outsiders would think, but enough to give our region the reputation. I think it's exactly the same in swinging.

[Alura 2,766]

Quote

 

Curiousagain wrote:

 

Her lover dead, husband jailed, jobless, and homeless, she attempted suicide and then their kids were placed in the care of the state.

 

 

Sometimes you just have to ask yourself, "Is is worth it?"

 

No, it isn't.

[intuition897 2,177]

Unfortunately, there is a significant number of people calling themselves swingers that are lacking in intelligence and good common sense, are irresponsible, indiscreet, drunkards, drama queens, liars, bad parents, and more

 

Exactly. This is where the activity is defined by the "bad apples" in it. Sort of the way the word "Christian" ruffles feathers. Christianity is inherently good, and an ideal model to form one's life after, but the mere utterance of the word Christian brings to mind a lot of other very negative words...at least to a great many people. I'm not saying swinging is anything like a religion, but there are definitely ideals that swinging includes that are appliciable to the rest of one's life. Respect, trust, tolerance, etc., to name a few. To me, a thing that is, at it's purest core, a very good thing should not be defined as bad just because some people who claim to be members of it don't get what it's all about.

[meandher2go 17]

but what its all about is really up to the individual couple. for us its about enjoying sex with other people. but doing it as a couple. we really are NOT looking for relationships other than in bed. it has happened where we met a couple or 2 and ended up being friends. but its about sex for us, not more.

 

we have NEVER wanted or will end up being friends with a cheating guy/girl for obvious reasons mentioned here. there isnt much of a chance of that cheating guy trying to hook up with her behind my back. (not to mention she isnt interested) but we are carefull of that and never give out much personal info. the contact is thru email and my cell phone which wont be tracked back to me or my address. so we are not worried about that.

 

but is it morally wrong, im sure it is....sorry but it works for US

[Tybee Swing 286]

Exactly. This is where the activity is defined by the "bad apples" in it. Sort of the way the word "Christian" ruffles feathers. Christianity is inherently good, and an ideal model to form one's life after, but the mere utterance of the word Christian brings to mind a lot of other very negative words...at least to a great many people. I'm not saying swinging is anything like a religion, but there are definitely ideals that swinging includes that are appliciable to the rest of one's life. Respect, trust, tolerance, etc., to name a few. To me, a thing that is, at it's purest core, a very good thing should not be defined as bad just because some people who claim to be members of it don't get what it's all about.

 

Hi Intuition (one of my favorite people here, by the way),

 

I have to concur with meandher2go on this - he said, "What its all about is really up to the individual couple."

 

Swingers are swingers, regardless of what they know or think they know about the lifestyle. They all have their own way and there are no rules or standard guidelines to determine what a "true" swinger is. They don't have to learn certain things, or learn anything at all about swinging to be swingers and call themselves swingers. If they get drunk with their neighbors, inadvertently end up playing naked Trivial Pursuit followed by having some form of sex with each other, they can call themselves swingers. They can do it without giving it a thought before they act. They can be any kind of person and conduct themselves in any manner they wish.

 

You mentioned certain "ideals" that swinging includes. I disagree that swinging has a set of ideals. You and I may have those particular ideals - not because they are swinging ideals, but because those are our own personal values (we were already like this before swinging). Christianity and Christian behavior is mandated by the Bible, and by the life of Christ as an example to follow. Christianity has certain very clearly defined parameters. Christians are commanded by a higher authority to follow these behaviors and live within these parameters (following a narrow path). The New Testament says that you will recognize who is a true Christian by the behavior they manifest - "You will know them by their fruit" (how they conduct themselves).

 

Swinging has no such mandate, no such example of behavior that swingers are supposed to follow. Without a Supreme Authority of Swinging, who is there to say what the ideals of swinging are? Respect, trust, honesty and tolerance are beautiful human characteristics (I value these and I know that you do). However, they aren't inherently part of swinging, and they don't define swinging. Many people are longterm swingers and "real" swingers without abiding by all or even some of these traits/characteristics in the lifestyle.

 

You mentioned "some people who claim to be members". There's no membership roster for swinging, and no standards for who's "in" and who's "out" of the club. Swinging is a free-for-all.

 

All we can do is know what our own personal standards are as human beings (not as swingers), avoid people we don't want to associate with because of their behavior and choices, and connect ourselves with people who share our personal ideals (not the non-existent swinger ideals).

[sereneiders 263]

I agree 100% with Spoo and Ths Fuse.

 

we have had a few cheaters (men and women) and our thought on it is, we cant or wont change anyones mind, so why bother trying. we dont police other peoples lives. we are NOT the marraige police. If we find a cheater who happens to float our boats, we feel they are a match, we meet with them and see where it goes.

 

it might not be right, but its how we feel.

 

You're representative of the lady mentioned by the OP. You're entitled to your perspective, your set of ethics, and your feelings... as much as we do, and you wouldn't be elegible playmates.

 

Following the same approach, you may have an STD and not tell anyone just because it would dimish your chances to score, if you infect your playmates because they, let say, engaged in oral without condoms, without being warned, just because "they knew their chances", it would be ok for you.

 

Now you can claim I am streetching the example, that it wouldn't be the same, but it won't be the same if WE ALL stick to YOUR concepts of what's REAL damage, when for other people, what really cares are THEIR concepts of what's real damage. What matters is if this would be a real damage for the cheated spouse should he/she know. A responsible attitude would be to go to the source for this information, and if the sourse were unreachable, then you may suppose this IS damaging because if not, the guy wouldn't be cheating on the spouse at all.

 

I cannot care less about YOUR TAKE, once you claim you give a shit about everyone's else take, including mine. Moreover, you're DANGEROUS for me, for my relationship, because I expect our playmates to be as carafull with us as we are with our playmates, and this would be too hard for you, since you're just looking for an easy fuck.

 

Besides, there is other aspect involved here to address: the way we, as a community, would like to be perceived by the rest of our society.

 

This careless and unresponsible behavior affects us all, moreover when people claiming to be swingers appologizes for "their right" to behave this way, because this fits all the wrong prejudices most vanilla people have about swingers: people lacking the ethics the rest of the society stands for, people who gives a shit about their acts consecuences for as long as they get what they want.

 

They may wonder why people like this wouldn't be up to steal or commit any other crime, should they find out a way to avoid being caught. This sole argument would be enough to fire someone from his/her work after knowing he/she's a swinger. I could lose my job on those grounds, just because my boss assume I share YOUR moral standards, when mines are way higher, even higher than the average vanilla guy (not to mention those vanilla guys claiming to have high standards while cheating on their spouses).

 

So, I believe this is wrong at many, many levels as to remain silent. I draw a line between swinging and "just" recreational sex: swinging requires a responsible attitude, mainly to preserve our relationship, but also to preserve the relationships and the values of those we play with.

[josephanthony69 15]

Thanks for speaking up, it is about the fun and eroticism of the sex and not the relationship. Being the extra M in a couple of MFM's it is a lot of fun!!

but what its all about is really up to the individual couple. for us its about enjoying sex with other people. but doing it as a couple. we really are NOT looking for relationships other than in bed. it has happened where we met a couple or 2 and ended up being friends. but its about sex for us, not more.

 

we have NEVER wanted or will end up being friends with a cheating guy/girl for obvious reasons mentioned here. there isnt much of a chance of that cheating guy trying to hook up with her behind my back. (not to mention she isnt interested) but we are carefull of that and never give out much personal info. the contact is thru email and my cell phone which wont be tracked back to me or my address. so we are not worried about that.

 

but is it morally wrong, im sure it is....sorry but it works for US

[n2ez 18]

Hi All!

 

I haven’t posted here in a while, but we just met a couple last night, who had a slightly different take on the Lifestyle, and I was curious about your thoughts.

 

They do some “cheat and greets” now and again. They may meet a couple and each go out alone with the other’s spouse. Or she may meet another guy, have some fun, and come home and tell the husband, etc. Him, too, on occasion.

 

That’s all fine and dandy – hotwife… whatever it’s called.

 

But here is where it gets a bit bizarre:

 

The “hot wife” often sleeps with married men who are cheating on their own wives. These are also men in her everyday, vanilla world. A colleague from the same company; trainer from the gym; old friend; business networking group, etc.

 

All these guys are married and cheating.

 

My partner and I are never ones to judge others. We always believed the more open people are with sex, the Lifestyle, open-marriages, fetishes, honesty, etc. etc. the better.

 

We’ve always said that the Lifestyle is not just about sex. Sex is the result of honesty, communication, open-mindedness, etc. I know you all understand, but the average vanilla may not.

 

The woman kept telling us, “It’s not MY sin!”; “I’M not lying!”; “That’s the GUY’s problem!”… And the husband kinda laughed at it.

 

I dunno.

 

Are we turning old-fashioned and prude?

 

Or is there really just something “unlifestyle-esque” about doing it with these cheating men from the community. It’s not that we looked at this woman and “lost respect” for her… but, Hmmm… as open-minded as we are, these people have WIVES sitting at home, thinking their husbands are at business meetings.

 

What do you think?

 

I understand that not all lifestylers have occasional separate activities, and to each his or her own. I’m not one to judge and say whether or not that enhances or detracts from a marriage. It’s going off with married, cheating men that kinda make my partner and I look at each other and go “gulp.”

 

I am so curious to hear your opinions!

 

 

hmmmmmmmm I always wonder when I read about how badddddddd these cheating men are, why is it only MEN? somehow I get the feeling that if it was cute little cheating woman she would be more then welcome without judgement into the bedroom!]

[n2ez 18]

How about activities with cheating Women???

 

how do you justify that over "Cheating men"??

 

It is funny to see how some couples will (not all) be more then willing to let a cheating woman join their tryst, but on the other hand they will let you know they will have nothing to do with cheating man! in fact have read some profiles stating "we will contact your wife!!" yikes!

whats up with that?

[Spoomonkey 418]

n2ez said:

How about activities with cheating Women???

 

how do you justify that over "Cheating men" ??

it is funny to see how some couples will (not all) be more then willing to let a cheating woman join their tryst, but on the other hand they will let you know they will have nothing to do with cheating man! in fact have read some profiles stating "we will contact your wife!!" yikes!

whats up with that?

 

While I wouldn't be one to have such a double standard, I would think that you are probably right - this double standard does exist. "Single" women come to our club and are quite open about the fact that they are cheating.

 

On the other hand, I am only aware of one man who comes to our club who is openly cheating (he gets less attention than the men's room).

 

Is it right? No.

 

Is a double standard "fair"? Probably not.

 

So why are cheating wives more accepted than cheating males? Once again, it comes down to supply and demand. There are half a dozen single guys in the club at any given time - and that is on a low night. We have one regular single woman who is simply not very attractive and comes to the club to drink herself silly and complain about the fact that she can't get laid.

 

You walk a unicorn through the place, and people seem to lose their minds. Single or cheating, people don't really care... Because they are rare. And people will bend the rules for them.

 

But as a guy, the cheater in the club is in competition with a number of men, most legitimately single. Couples looking for single men have the luxury to be picky and to stick to their rules.

 

Frankly, I don't like cheaters coming to swing clubs. I have my issues with it which I have noted before, so I won't get into it. Male or female, I don't care. We aren't going to play with cheaters. So no double standard here... But I certainly understand why one might exist.

[Tybee Swing 286]

The woman kept telling us, “It’s not MY sin!”; “I’M not lying!”; “That’s the GUY’s problem!”… And the husband kinda laughed at it.

 

What do you think?

 

.... It’s going off with married, cheating men that kinda make my partner and I look at each other and go “gulp.”

 

I am so curious to hear your opinions!

 

We (my husband and I) don't touch cheaters with a 10-foot pole. Like you, we believe that lying and deceiving has NO place in the lifestyle. Cheating husbands aren't swingers, they're just lying swine. The more that swingers associate with them as swingers, the less tolerance or understanding we'll get from the vanilla world. If we preach "honesty, trust, openness is what we're all about", we ought to demonstrate that, including taking responsibility. Otherwise, we're no better than the cheaters are. If you lay down with pigs, you get dirty.

 

How about activities with cheating Women???

 

Same. We've actually had that opportunity and turned it down. I know we're not the only ones, because we're not the first to turn her down because her spouse didn't know what she was up to. We live near a major military installation where a lot of the husbands are away in the war. Maybe couples felt safer or "less like cheating", and that's why some of them are looking for people like us, rather than just running around with the single men like a classic cheater.

[dayhiker 83]

I'd say she kinda has a point that they guy is the sinner. But she is clearly an enabler in the situation. Enablers are looked on as part of the problem these days.

[LOL_OMG 130]

If a so called single tells you they are 'single' and later you find out their attached you run some of the previously mentioned risks. The only saving grace is your conscience is clear but that doesn't mean the So of the cheater will care. We have expierenced this to a small degree, the guy said he was single, we had a great time, but he was definitaly ' time watching'. At that point we felt he might not be a true single but what can you do. We still don't know for sure as he still has a profile and a few certifications. It was fun and we had no repurcussive problems.

 

It all seems to melt into grey areas when dealing with 'most' singles and all you can do is what you feel is best for the given situation. I would suggest however to keep copies of emails if possible from so called singles just in case you have a pissed off person knocking at your door asking wtf you were doing with there SO.

 

Mr.

[WesternSwing 504]

We (my husband and I) don't touch cheaters with a 10-foot pole. Like you, we believe that lying and deceiving has NO place in the lifestyle. Cheating husbands aren't swingers, they're just lying swine. The more that swingers associate with them as swingers, the less tolerance or understanding we'll get from the vanilla world. If we preach "honesty, trust, openness is what we're all about", we ought to demonstrate that, including taking responsibility. Otherwise, we're no better than the cheaters are. If you lay down with pigs, you get dirty.

This reminds me of when the local CBS affiliate did an "expose" on swinging and of course it starts with the words "Couples cheating in secret, and in the open, and joining a movement that seems to be gaining in momentum. We've heard that spouse swapping and adultery is common in certain suburban neighborhoods..."

 

Part of the story is that the reporter, posing as a married woman signed-up on a website "aimed at extra-marital affairs and so-called swingers" and "within six days 70 married men" contacted them. Don't ask me how they knew all of them were married since most married men on swingers sites don't come right out and say so.

 

They had two women on there, one saying she and her husband were victims of "recruiting" by swingers and the other saying her husband was cheating and married the woman down the street within a week of their divorce being final. She didn't outright say he was seeing swingers, but the reporter eluded to it.

 

The whole gist of it was that swingers are recruiting your married husbands, so ladies, hold on tight to them. That is the slant that the public wants to hear and thus is being told to them. And the more some swingers entertain cheating men and women the more of self-inflicted black eye we give ourselves. Playing with married men and women is just feeding the non-swinger world exactly what they want.

 

Mr. WS

[crazycatz 17]

Not sure if my post belongs in this thread or not but it's a rant against married cheating men!! I'm so furious! I was invited to a party tomorrow night where apparently 20 couples would be attending. I've done a little research into this and it seems that of the couples attending, a good portion of them (3 or 4 at least) are not real couples, but in fact consist of married men cheating on their wives and probably using the single female to get into the party!!!

I have a policy of no playing with attached people without the consent of their SO and though I've always wanted to attend a party the one thing that stops me is that I would have little or no knowledge of who the geniune couples are!

Is this an issue for anyone else? Or is this the norm?

[ncmd_couple 597]

Catz,

 

Yeah, it would be an issue with us. Because of that we have blocked single males from viewing our profile on SLS. It is also getting easier to spot the fakes out there. But so far, we have managed to avoid this situation with no problem.

[tribbles 490]

The only thing we can do is ASK.

If they say they are single, we take them at their word.

 

Could some be lying? Sure. Sometimes even 'couples' are just two cheaters who hooked up to play with others.

 

We had to draw the line somewhere and without doing background investigations on playmates, that is where we put our line.

[sweet_tna 680]

Hi All!

The “hot wife” often sleeps with married men who are cheating on their own wives. These are also men in her everyday, vanilla world. A colleague from the same company; trainer from the gym; old friend; business networking group, etc.

 

All these guys are married and cheating.

 

I personally would not condone this behavior. Too many people can get hurt (the wives left at home and the kids).

 

My partner and I are never ones to judge others. We always believed the more open people are with sex, the Lifestyle, open-marriages, fetishes, honesty, etc. etc. the better.

 

I call 'em like I see 'em. We all decide for ourselves whether we think a certain behavior is right or wrong. Even whether or not we'd play with a particular couple--is,essentially, a judgement.

 

We’ve always said that the Lifestyle is not just about sex. Sex is the result of honesty, communication, open-mindedness, etc. I know you all understand, but the average vanilla may not.

 

This, I think is a matter of perspective. I know when I was first married, I NEVER thought of having sex with anyone else. Heck, I tried for a year to talk my honey out of marrying me because I was his first lover and was terrified he'd decided he could "do better" ten years down the road. I wanted him to have more experience first. Swinging (to me) would have been lumped right in there with cheating.

 

NOW, I don't see it that way at all. Is it because we're in the lifestyle now? Quite probably. And while I agree with open-mindedness, honesty, and communication as healthy swinger attributes, not all swingers have them.

 

To answer another question in this thread: Are we (as swingers) above reproach from others (swingers or vanillas)? Nope. We're just as venerable to scrutiny as the next guy/gal/green hippo.

 

Just my $0.02.

 

=)

[ShellyM 1]

crazycatz said:

Not sure if my post belongs in this thread or not but it's a rant against married cheating men!! I'm so furious! I was invited to a party tomorrow night where apparently 20 couples would be attending. I've done a little research into this and it seems that of the couples attending, a good portion of them (3 or 4 at least) are not real couples, but in fact consist of married men cheating on their wives and probably using the single female to get into the party!!!

 

I have a policy of no playing with attached people without the consent of their SO and though I've always wanted to attend a party the one thing that stops me is that I would have little or no knowledge of who the genuine couples are!

 

Is this an issue for anyone else? Or is this the norm?

 

Unfortunately yes, there are more than a few "single" men that are actually cheating husbands. We were going to meet up with a gentleman on a Thurs. evening for dinner, just to see if the chemistry is there. On Wed. evening he says "Well, I'm actually married....I hope you don't have a problem with that"....well ummmmm YEAH, I DO have a problem with that LOL!

 

We actually have in our profile that if your marriage is in trouble we suggest you seek marital counseling instead of a lover.