Things I learned as a single male

[robertodabull 7]

I spent 5 years in the swinging lifestyle as a solo male.
This is what I learned…You’re probably not going to like it.

1-Solo men are actively discriminated against and disliked in the lifestyle.

Without trying to be over dramatic, in short, swingers and those who practice other forms of ethical non monogamy hate single men to the core.  There are very few exceptions and outliers of course (such as those who are truly into the cuckold and Hotwife kink) but believe you me, the number is much smaller than you might think. In fact, those couples could be considered rare and thanks to Pornhub, Onlyfans and Xvideos who exploit this kink to the brim a lot of young men tend to overestimate the presence of this activity in real life.
Why do they keep us around you might ask? Short answer is: Money.  Single males are usually charged double, triple or even quadruple to attend events, parties or resorts (if they are even let in at all).

 

2-Your physical appearance matters.

 

In fact it might be the only factor that determines if you are even considered a breathing human being by people in the lifestyle.
Yes I know what you think, in an ideal world a man is considered worthy of sexual experience by his worth and contributions to society. In real life though, the only way you might even be considered by a couple is if you have six pack abs, look like an elite body builder, have the right jaw line, cock size, height, eye color, etc.

At this point you might say “well, this is a sex related activity, of course people are going to judge you by your looks” and you would be right. However, every single podcast, documentary, news report or media piece done about the swinging lifestyle features a couple saying things like “Oh, it’s not looks what matters, it’s connection, respect and politeness”.  Don’t be fooled by any of this!  If you plan to enter the lifestyle as a single male and you do not look like an underwear model, be ready to be treated with cruelty you would have never even imagined civilized human beings could be capable of.

 

3-STD’s are rampant!

 

I’m a healthcare professional and hold an MPH. So of course I pulled articles from medical and public health journals related to ethical non monogamy.  Most data is inconclusive regarding the rate of STD’s in the swinger lifestyle, with some articles citing better adherence to prevention and lower rates of certain STD’s in people who practice swinging.  But these studies are hard to conduct, especially because of the secretive nature of this activity.  

Reality check: STD’s are very much in higher occurrence in the swinging lifestyle.  Despite my best efforts in prevention (including consistent condom use) I have been treated for chlamydia, TWICE! and about 50% of couples have revealed their positive herpes status to me with the option to back down from a play session. And yes, people with HIV swing! and there are A LOT of them. I do need to point out that if you are living with HIV and your viral load is fully suppressed with meds the chances of passing on the disease are close to zero. But not everyone is willing to show you their viral load, or even get one done on a regular basis.  Spooked yet? I know I was.

 

4-Flakes and cat fishing. Don’t. Get. Me. Started….

 

So you connect with a couple on SDC.com, Kasidie, Rocktie or your local classifieds. Great! You finish your work on time, put on your best suit and tie, and plan to meet with the couple on a cool restaurant you know they will love. How exciting! except…they never show. In fact despite efforts from most swinger apps and websites to verify their users, they might not even exist at all.  
Or maybe someone does show up! but it’s only another guy, claiming to be the husband and asking if you could “play with him first” before meeting his wife.  Yes, this has happened to me, three times! and believe me it’s not a pleasant conversation. The amount of gay guys posing as couples on swinger sites trying to weasel into a sexual encounter with a straight man is quite impressive.  I never quite understood this kink, maybe Grindr was getting too predictable?

 

5-Most important of all, women don’t really have a sex drive.

 

I know this is controversial. But I’m here to tell you the truth about the lifestyle, not give you false impressions.

They say the swinger lifestyle is a female led atmosphere that “empowers” and “liberates” women and their sexuality.  I call bullshit!  It’s the men who have the ultimate vetted interest in interacting sexually with as many women as they can, and there really is no better and more convenient way to do so.  The amount of times I have gotten vibes that the female half of the couple was being coerced or even forced into the lifestyle are too many for my own comfort.

In fact, I am pretty sure that at least one third of the women I have had sex with in play parties, orgies, gang bangs or private meetups were paid escorts.

And this is because social media, movies and podcasts have drilled into our brains that women “want sex just as much as men do” which is obviously a fallacy.  It is biologically impossible for women to have the libido and openness to recreational sex as men do.  You can cancel me later for this, but someone has to state facts.  Feminists believe that they are promoting an equality agenda (which BTW I am all for) by claiming “equal horniness” to their male counterparts. But we need not accept or make up false facts to understand the basic concept of equality in all human beings.  Admitting to differences between genders is not equivalent to dismissing any of they qualities.  And one difference we have to acknowledge in order to make sense of the current sexual arena is that of the scant or nonexistence presence of sex drive in women.

Edited April 21 by robertodabull

[kittyswinger 256]

Hi!

1. Not true for us. Most of our swing partners were single male in an mfm. A single F is rare. And dual chemistry is more difficult to find on couples.

 

2. Physical appearance counts because Im not looking for a life partner. However, a 6pack abs is not a requirement for me. I had partners who were older than me or who have flabby abs. But I find all of them sexy, either due to appearance, or for being a smart conversationalist.

 

3. So far, we are STD free. Not even once tested positive.

 

4. True, i experienced that too, more often with couples. They catfish or flake out when their female partners are not on board with their swing activities. Sometimes others lie too and brought an escort with them pretending to be their wifey or gf.  But we can spot them easily coz we play the long game over chat and casual coffee meets before jumping into bed.  But some singles are like that too who felt intimidated that i brought my partner with me.  They cant handle the truth that an authentic partner can have a consensual swing or non monogamous agreement.

 

5. I guarantee you, i have more sex drive than you do! We can exchange body counts. I have another bf that i meet regularly every week and we have a child. My SO or partner is more of the couch potato swinger; he is fit and good looking too but enjoys reading at home more than flirting with prospective swing partners. When he was  younger, he was active too in the ls.

Edited April 21 by kittyswinger

[hunterdonNJcpl 1,134]

I generally agree. You do sound like you're speaking from experience.  With exception to HIV and the paid escorts (although maybe) in 25 years of swinging we have seen just about everything you mention. The "single guy claiming to be the husband" spoof is even more prevalent with couples seeking couples.  And couples seeking males need to contend with a vast ocean of cheaters, liars and flakes and that does create contempt in some couples toward single males.

 

But still it sounds like you have had a good deal of success.  It's a numbers game for everyone. You're statistically unlikely to find compatible people, but with experience you learn how to have more success.

 

Are you still a swingle or have you left the LS in frustration?

[couplers 4,179]

My poly family and I are the exception here on this site and in the lifestyle.  We have on occasion taken it outside the family, but rarely; we have never been to a club, houseparty, or had sex with strangers.  So my experience is not typical and I am unqualified to comment, except I take offense 😄 at the belief

5 hours ago, robertodabull said:

women don’t really have a sex drive.

I (and Clair and Lora) not only can and do outfuck our same-age men, but we also go at each other.  That's why for several years we shared a boyfriend for the extra we needed from time-to-time. 

 

5 hours ago, robertodabull said:

It’s the men who have the ultimate vetted [sic] interest in interacting sexually with as many women as they can,

This gets to a fundamental truth, men just want to fuck as many women as they can, women (mostly) want sex with men they know, trust, and have a deeper attraction to.  That's why, i think, MFMs with regulars work so well. 

 

 

Edited April 21 by couplers

[couplers 4,179]

5 hours ago, kittyswinger said:

i have more sex drive than you do! We can exchange body counts.

My body count is low, but the amount of sex that I've had with those bodies is high.

 

5 hours ago, kittyswinger said:

A single F is rare.

Perhaps in the regular swingers game, but I had great success early on when we were in our mid-twenties and I decided that I wanted my husband to play in addition to me having a boyfriend.  I recruited for among my friends and acquaintances with great success.  Maybe because so many of my friends were single at that age (late teens to thirties), my husband is very attractive and polite, he was considered both safe and desirable because he was married, to me, who was giving them permission and saying that I would be flattered if she used my husband.  Finally, we weren't pushy, he and/or we would take them on dates and vacations, pay for everything and expect nothing. 

[AdamGunn2 203]

My goodness, considering your attitude and the problems you encountered, I wonder that you spent five years in the sport - why didn’t you get out right away?

 

My wife and I spent many years swinging, and soon after we started we got into MFM threesomes. She also soloed a little with single men. We always enjoyed the idea, if not every single man on every single night.

1-Solo men are actively discriminated against and disliked in the lifestyle.

 

When you say “swingers . . . hate single men to the core” you’re putting your perspective on other people. Yes, some people don’t want to interact with single men, mainly because many of the guys are pushy and feel entitled, and those couples want both partners interacting. That’s hard to do if the husband and SM aren’t both bi.

 

We, and many other couples we interacted with, enjoy the occasional single male, IF he is polite. Many times we sought them out, and we were glad we did. We had a great time with many of them.

 

2-Your physical appearance matters.

 

Of course it does! A single male who isn’t somewhat attractive isn’t going to be very successful. But that doesn’t mean you have to be a perfect specimen. In fact, my wife accepted many men into her bed who were overweight, shorter than she was, or didn’t have the perfect face. Why? Because they engaged her mind, made her feel that she was interesting to them. Personality matters more than a killer body.

 

And it works the other way, too. My wife’s been rejected because she was older or wasn’t attractive to the man.

 

3-STD’s are rampant!

 

Not going to disagree here. But we were in the sport for nearly twenty years, and never caught anything. Of course, we always used condoms.

 

4-Flakes and cat fishing. Don’t. Get. Me. Started….

 

You’re right, don’t get us started. Single Men are the worst when it comes to flaking. In our first year, we were contacted on SLS by numerous men who chatted us up, then just disappeared. And yes, we showed up at the agreed place and time, only to be disappointed when he didn’t show.

 

There’s nothing you can do about it when a guy or couple ghosts you on SLS or another site. It’s part of the game, and why it happens has been discussed in these forums many times. It’s very disappointing, but it’s part of the game. If you never want to come in contact with flakes, it’s time to get out of the game.

 

As far as no-shows, we got very good at figuring out who wasn’t going to show. We made them dance through hoops during the messaging stage, on purpose. If they weren’t going to make an effort, we figured we'd wind up disappointed. And we always had a telephone call with them before we met. That seriously cut down on the number of no-shows. And finally, we insisted that an hour or two before the meet, they text us. If we didn’t get the text, we didn’t show. (And yes, we got a few ‘where were you’ messages because they didn’t text us.)

 

5-Most important of all, women don’t really have a sex drive.

 

Okay, I’m just calling bullshit on this one. Women who participate in ENM have a much greater sex drive than the vast majority of men, in my experience. I think you’re just trolling here. Your ‘facts’ are unfounded in science

 

 

 

 

Edited April 21 by AdamGunn2

[lcmim 1,030]

OP...

 

Really??

 

Not in our experience.  

 

Troll much?

[bbarnsworth 2,541]

Concur with lcmim.

 

I don't want to sit here in denial of some of the issues raised. But, overall, I call bullshit. New account, single post. I see agenda written all over this. Sorry, go troll somewhere else.

 

Women don't have a sex drive. Good grief.

 

 

[NWAtlSwing 493]

Women in the lifestyle can have higher sex drives than their husbands. That part does not met the sniff test.

 

And is sucks to be a single man

 

[robertodabull 7]

9 hours ago, hunterdonNJcpl said:

I generally agree. You do sound like you're speaking from experience.  With exception to HIV and the paid escorts (although maybe) in 25 years of swinging we have seen just about everything you mention. The "single guy claiming to be the husband" spoof is even more prevalent with couples seeking couples.  And couples seeking males need to contend with a vast ocean of cheaters, liars and flakes and that does create contempt in some couples toward single males.

 

But still it sounds like you have had a good deal of success.  It's a numbers game for everyone. You're statistically unlikely to find compatible people, but with experience you learn how to have more success.

 

Are you still a swingle or have you left the LS in frustration?

Thanks for your response and comments.

 

I'm partnered now, but my wife is hesitant to step into the swinging lifestyle.

 

Before I got married, I had left the LS for a couple of years.  So yes, I left out of frustration and (half baked) suicide attempt.

[robertodabull 7]

5 hours ago, bbarnsworth said:

Concur with lcmim.

 

I don't want to sit here in denial of some of the issues raised. But, overall, I call bullshit. New account, single post. I see agenda written all over this. Sorry, go troll somewhere else.

 

Women don't have a sex drive. Good grief.

 

 

I hear you on this. But what agenda could I have? getting myself blocked?

 

I get you on the new account thing, but after leaving the LS in frustration (and a suicide attempt) I deleted my account from most forums, including this one. I reopened an account in order to connect and vent about misconceptions in the LS.  

[robertodabull 7]

The replies are more positive and informational than I expected, so I want to thank everyone who commented.

 

I don't really have an agenda, but there are not a lot of places I can get things out of my chest in regarding this lifestyle. So there is that.

 

Because of my obsession with the LS, I started doing things to my body that it is now barely resenting.  I started doing steroids to gain more muscle and stimulants to lose weight. I ended up with a deep vein thrombosis that later turned into pulmonary embolism that landed me in the hospital a few years back (a serious yet little talked about side effect of testosterone and androgens). I also developed an eating disorder and attempted suicide once.

 

The fact that I have taken the "black pill" (at the expense of sounding like some sort of incel) on the way people judge me by my looks and physique does not mean this holds true to everyone in the lifestyle. I am sure there are good people and I am still friends to this day with people I played with. I am talking about biological facts, availbale data and my own experience.

[discreetplay 225]

I'm not going to go through the OPs 5 items individually. My opinion on his experience is meaningless. He sounds like he's just ranting rather than seeking information.

 

It is no surprise to anyone that looks do matter. And for a single male, looks are significantly more important. The OP claims to have quite a bit of experience in the lifestyle and thus shouldn't be surprised that the physique of a single male is important. With thousands of single men drooling to be part of a threesome or have meaningless ex with a woman without any risk of strings, a couple wanting to add a male has an infinite number of choices.  With so many possibilities, why would the guy with a great personality +50 pounds have any chance when there are dozens and dozens of men with a good personality and the great physique? Heck, moving on from the personality and physique is easy when there is another group with the personality, physique and larger member the prospective woman wants. Even people outside the lifestyle would understand this. Just think of the bar scene. Endless men seeking women...women have the choice. Yes, you don't have to be some sort of magazine cover but if you are going to separate yourself in a group of thousands you better bring something to the table. 

 

I find it strange that the last three posts by the OP all mention his suicide attempt...

"(half baked) suicide attempt"

"(and a suicide attempt) "

"and attempted suicide once"

 

Is this some sort of badge of honor? Is it an attempt to get people to feel sorry for you? I don't understand. 

 

[Billygoat 416]

Wow.  Roberto sorry you had such bad exposure to the lifestyle.

 

I will admit swinging is primarily a couples activity but yes single males and females exist and enjoy the activities as well.  Normally if a single male regularly attends a club/party and is personable, engaging and not pushy will experience great interactions and will gain a group of regulars as a trusted playmate.

 

Groups, house parties, semi private events are far better to attend than commercial clubs resorts.  Especially for single/solo players.

 

Keep in mind the couples that are active do so to enjoy play time with other couples.  Yes threesomes and hot wifing/cucking does happen but it is not the core of swinging.  And yes commercial parties and larger home parties do allow single men to attend….at a much higher rate, 2x or 3x of couples charges.  And it only takes a few bad apples to cast a negative point of view.  Most single males that were regulars, personable, humorous, polite and not demanding as they met couples usually always had their dance card full.  

 

I do not know where you have been where you are so exposed to STDs/STIs but Having 25 years in the lifestyle and ten years hosting parties, events, fantasy events and belonging to a group of hosts/managers (where we shared information on couples and singles that were causing issues) we went out of our way to ensure safe practices and STD/STI was extremely rare.   
 

Yes some parties/club/events catered to the “beautiful people” and “Gym Rats” the vast majority were attended by every day people of all shapes and sizes.  From skinny to extra large (HWP, full bodied, chubby, BBW/BBM, SBBW/SBBM),  young (late 20s - 30s and older (40s - 70s FYI most sexually active) 85% of all negative issues at a lifestyle event were by males 50/50 married males and solo/single males being inappropriate usually as a result of to much alcohol.  
 

As far as overall looks yes, as in life looks are first, appearance counts, dress to impress.  But, looks are only 10% at best.  If the good looking couple/man/woman has a bad attitude, deadpan personality, cocky, boring etc etc……..looks go away very fast and will by themselves rarely not seal the deal.

 

And as far as your number 5…..now I call bullshit.  Either you have a very narrow set of experiences, only attend one single location repeatedly which was bad or you just haven’t had many experiences.  Or maybe it is just a commercial club venue you attended.  
 

And the last paragraph you wrote is all bullshit.  I have no idea where you went but your observation about women in the lifestyle is so far off base, not even close.  And your assumption that only oversexed wives would attend and the rest are just not interested….either your experiences are very limited or non existent.

 

There is very little in your post that ring realistic or true.  Your observations must be from negative experiences or just plain lack of experience.  Or you really need to find a better place to go.

[hunterdonNJcpl 1,134]

The OP seems to be getting a lot of hate for his views regarding "the scant or nonexistent sex drive in women".

 

Granted that is an unfair blanket statement.  Yet, in our experience, as well as in the experiences of fellow over-50 swingers we know, that statement can ring true - especially as women age.

 

When we started out in the LS, barely 30, libidos were equally high among men and women we knew in the LS.

 

Fast forward 25 years and most of the couples we knew back in the day have dropped out of the LS.  There are many reasons for this but the one we hear alot is "she lost interest".

 

I'm not saying this happens to all women. My wife is in her 50s and her libido still (and always has) outperformed mine.  We know women in their 60s with insatiable libidos.  But indeed this happens to many, and I think often when this happens to a swinger wife she will try to carry on for a while in the LS, for her husband's benefit, before throwing in the towel.

 

I think the OP has seen this and we have seen this as well.

[AdamGunn2 203]

Hunterdon,

 

You make a point that some women tend to lose interest as they age. That's a valid point. 

 

But the OP said, ". . . women 'want sex just as much as men do' which is obviously a fallacy.  It is biologically impossible for women to have the libido and openness to recreational sex as men do." That doesn't have anything to do with women who were once into the scene losing interest - it speaks to a fallacious 'scientific' myth that most of us on this board with disagree with.