Newbies: MFM, then FMF for starters?

[CallMeLoki]

Hi Folks:

My wife and I are considering trying swinging. We are considering starting with a MFM threesome (there's essentially a current opportunity to do that), then an FMF threesome (when the opportunity presents itself). I guess our main question is: are there any red flags in starting this way? I don't know if we'd continue with anything else after that...a lot probably depends on how we feel about these two experiences. More details below if you have the stamina to read my long posts!

I"ll try to make this as short as I can. About 1.5 years ago, I visited a strip bar in Toronto...I hadn't been to a strip club in years and my wife encouraged me to go. I ended up getting a lap dance from two hot ladies. My wife wanted details, and it was a little hard for me to open up, but I did (I do my best to be completely honest). I figured she'd be a little upset about how intimate the lap dance was, but she was totally turned on by it. When I got home from the business trip, we had the hottest sex we've had in years.

So that got us to talking. This also of course led me to share with my wife that a sexual fantasy I've had for 2 decades was to have a threesome with two women. I offered to take her or send her with a bunch of girls to a male strip show, but she wasn't really into that idea. She likes to be in control...she would much rather give a lap dance than get one. I said "Cool...we could actually do that!" Then she asked me "How would you feel if I was grinding naked on another guy?" I thought about it for a bit and answered "I'd be totally turned on by it". And I would. From just talking about all this, if I recall we had some smokin' hot sex.

Since then, we've started fantasizing more and more openly with each other, now well into people we know (excepting very close long-term friends) and could possible engage in some play with. We've both written erotic stories for each other, and often flirt/tease other people just to arouse each other. End result: hot sex with each other.

We've visited some strip bars together and gotten couple's lap dances, we've partied with some acquaintances, flirted, teased, danced, fondled and groped a little, etc...essentially some very mild erotic play with others. End result: we have smoking hot sex with each other.

We've engaged in quite a bit of online flirting and a few cyber-sex encounters...I've encouraged my wife to take advantage of cyber-sex with a young "virtual boyfriend", and she's enjoyed it (and so have I). I've been quite entertained in strips bars and I really want to be fair to her, so I encouraged her and him to engage in whatever felt natural. End result: after she has a cyber-sex encounter with her virtual boy-toy, we have hot sex.

I probably don't have to say much more about where this appears to be headed, do I?

The cyber-BF has asked if he can come visit us...my wife has told me about his request, and we've talked about it quite a bit (for a month or two now). I've thought it all over carefully and I've said "Tell him to come on down." I've suggested to set the expectation that we'll hang out and have a few drinks and laughs...if anything erupts, we'll run with it. She likes him a lot as a person, and I know she'd essentially fuck his and my brains out. She's much more suspicious than I am, so if her barometer says he's safe and trustworthy, then I'm good with the safety element, even if it involves a little alone time for them. We're both in our early 40's and he's in his early 20's, so the "training a young stud" element has some appeal for her. And that's cool, if we're going to do this, I'd definitely want it to be as smokin' hot for her as it can be...her doing someone she's been burning for sexually is what I'd want for her. That turns us both on.

We've talked about fairness quite a bit, and I get to have a similar experience with her and another woman when the opportunity presents itself. I'm patient, so I'm in no huge hurry...like her, I would want it to be someone I really like and am turned on by (and someone who isn't shy about playing with both of us). We're both quite attractive people with engaging personalities, so I don't think finding a willing participant for me will be too difficult, although I realize it'll take a little time (I'm fine with that).

We've both talked a lot about how we think we would feel the next day and not just during. I'm quite positive that I'll be fine with it all the next day (and we'll probably have smokin' hot sex for quite a while afterwards).

Our sexual relationship has always been good...there have been a few dry spells here and there, but in general I think we have a really good sex life. I'm about the only guy I know personally who doesn't complain about the lack of sex or quality of sex. It's always been good, usually excellent, and sometimes just phenomenal. All these erotic shenanigans have done nothing but heat it all up. Our relationship otherwise has had it's ups and downs (we fairly recently worked through a very tough time, but managed to essentially wipe our slates clean and reset to zero...almost a fresh start, it feels like). I feel like our relationship has had some big swings in contentment at times over our 12 years of marriage, but overall I believe it's quite strong (we have ALWAYS managed to work through our problems somehow)...we both love each other and have a deep emotional connection. We have both always been faithful, we've never cheated on each other even when one of us might have wanted to. In fact, we've even gotten to the point of openness and honesty that we can admit to each other when we have crushes or infatuations with other people (and we end up using that in our fantasizing). We even encourage each other to flirt and playfully pursue our "crushes".

I've suggested that we go to a local swinger party and watch, flirt, maybe even make-out with another couple if we meet some folks we like, but not engage in anything actually qualifying as "sex"...then see how we feel the next day about it all. (I'd suspect "hot sex with each other", but you never know for sure until you just try it, I guess.) I'm not sure that would be all that "hot" for us though...we both like to really know and like the person's we have sex with. I've never been a pick-up artist nor has she ever been a pickup-ee. We both have to at least really like the respective person we want to do.

We've talked about setting boundaries for this first MFM...my wife feels that if we're going to do this, she wouldn't be satisfied without the whole enchilada (meaning everything including intercourse). After thinking that over, I see her point and I agree. I could be happy just doing oral with some of the ladies that I might end up with, but then I have to consider that some women may not want to give oral to me (although I love giving oral to a woman!), so I suppose I could feel a little left out if I gave her oral and essentially got nothing in return. Regardless, I do agree with my wife...if we're going to do this, why not just go at it and let each other have maximum enjoyment, right?

One thing I will say: even if we end up doing nothing, all the talking and openness and honesty sure seems like a great thing for our relationship. I feel good about us, and I guess in a way I want to reward us both for being good (ie. not having affairs, etc.) by us allowing ourselves to have some play time with others. We wouldn't want to do anything that would damage our relationship...but I just have this gut feel that after either encounter, we'd end up doing the usual...smokin' hot sex with each other.

I'm going to point her to this thread to see if she has anything she wants to add. (Her username is Sif, if you catch our little Norse mythology allusion. )

So, given all that I've written, are there any glaring red flags that pop up to you experienced folks? Please let us know what you think about starting with a MFM, following with an FMF, then re-assessing how we feel and where we go from there if anywhere.

Thanks in advance!
Loki

[bryanlee]

Well that's a mouthful, lol. (pun intended)

It looks as if you guys are already on a great start. Just keep the lines of communication open and see where it takes you.

I don't think there is any right or wrong way to start into this whole experience. The important thing is that you are both comfortable and on the same page as far as your feelings, wants and concerns go.

Other than that just sit back relax and enjoy yourselves. I wish you both luck in everything.

Bryan & Sharon

[Chicup]

Ok I have to admit, I did not read your wall of text past the first question.

Here are some issues with the MFM than FMF thing.

Getting an MFM is about as hard as getting a mosquito bite in a swamp for most couples.

In an FMF the extra F is called a unicorn for a reason.

So don't expect an FMF anytime soon after.

We started with a couple and I think that worked out the best for us. As newbies we were very turned on by the idea but still had the usual jealousies and nervousness. By each swinging with a new partner we were 'even' and as a somewhat possessive male I felt 'even' with the other man as well. I did have a bit of jealousy after our first time but I justified it to myself by knowing I had sex with his wife too. These days its not an issue, but sometimes you don't know you have demons to slay until you face them head on.

Another thing we have seen over the years on this board are people who first do an FMF or MFM and then their partner decides they don't want to do more, or are uncomfortable with the opposite. Its the whole fairness in swinging concept. Starting with a couple means we had our cake and ate it too, there was nothing to be resentful of.

So for some I'm sure your plan is fine, for us, couples were the way to go.

[CallMeLoki]

Hey Chicup...you made some good points. Yes, I realize that finding a 3rd woman for an FMF isn't exactly a quick and easy thing to do. My wife has actually said she'd like me to go first, and I would if there was a candidate who's ready-to-go on my front. (There might be one or two potential possibilities for me at the moment...a waitress we know and another acquaintance whom we know through some of our friends.)

I'm not worried that it'll never happen for me (I've had explicit affair offers before, and not too long ago I had to end a lap dance at a strip bar because it was about to go too far!), but you've made a good point. I don't think my wife would change her mind about an FMF for me, we've talked about her comfort level seeing me do another woman. But, something could change for us as a couple (some new challenge, like career or extended family) that could make it infeasible, so that's something that I hadn't thought about (which is exactly why I made this post). So, sounds like my wife and I should talk about this some.

Come to think of it, my wife has alluded to the fact that she wished her cyber-BF would bring a girl with him (and come to think of it, she has made a joke about hooking me up with the waitress in question the same visit weekend), so maybe she would feel more comfortable with a couple as well. Thanks...you've given us some more topics for emotionally intimate conversations about all this.

Loki

[realcplub2]

Originally Posted by Chicup

Ok I have to admit, I did not read your wall of text past the first question.

Here are some issues with the MFM than FMF thing.

Getting an MFM is about as hard as getting a mosquito bite in a swamp for most couples.

In an FMF the extra F is called a unicorn for a reason.

So don't expect an FMF anytime soon after.

We started with a couple and I think that worked out the best for us. As newbies we were very turned on by the idea but still had the usual jealousies and nervousness. By each swinging with a new partner we were 'even' and as a somewhat possessive male I felt 'even' with the other man as well. I did have a bit of jealousy after our first time but I justified it to myself by knowing I had sex with his wife too. These days its not an issue, but sometimes you don't know you have demons to slay until you face them head on.

Another thing we have seen over the years on this board are people who first do an FMF or MFM and then their partner decides they don't want to do more, or are uncomfortable with the opposite. Its the whole fairness in swinging concept. Starting with a couple means we had our cake and ate it too, there was nothing to be resentful of.

So for some I'm sure your plan is fine, for us, couples were the way to go.

I quoted Chicup because this is the best answer to this... And please allow me to expand upon it.

We started out much like you are want to, in that we did MFM threesomes with the idea that the next one, or down the road we would do "mine" the FMF .. 13 years later, the wait continues..lol

But seriously, starting with a MFM is fine, it will allow you both to expereince a evening of pleasure and have a brush with this lifestyle that you can use to decide if this might be for you both.

Two points must be made though:
First, in such an evening, for YOU Loki, must keep the "go with the flow" attitude, there might be times where all 3 are engaged in activity and others where someone, you or him is on the sidelines.. waiting to get tagged in..

Second point is to enjoy yourselves, with the idea firmly planted that you are doing this for fun and pleasure.. at the end of the night, he goes home and you both go home together.. So there is no need for the green eyed monster to rear its ugly head..

And the key point to this or any encounter you decide to have is, when its over TALK IT THRU.. this slays the demons before they can get a foothold..

The first time we experienced a evening with a couple, the ride home was such a talk.. What surprised me in the conversation was the things she was bothered by.. we talked it thru, and by the time we were home, she was at the PC writing the email , setting up the next visit.

Now then, While Loki did a great job explain the events thus far, I am curious as to what the Lady Sif is thinking/feeling about all this.

[CallMeLoki]

Originally Posted by realcplub2

...While Loki did a great job explain the events thus far, I am curious as to what the Lady Sif is thinking/feeling about all this.

I'll let her speak for herself...she should be hitting this thread sometime soon.

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm fine with sitting on the sidelines for a bit during an MFM...I would enjoy watching as much as I would enjoy participating, I believe. In fact, I think I'm probably comfortable enough to give her and Mr. 3rd some alone time (he's young, a little insecure about having another older man there before he's comfortable with her). I put my wife's safety first, but she's totally comfortable with him as they chatted for quite a while online before anything became erotic.

And, I have to ask myself...if it were a girl for me and she really felt uncomfortable having another woman there until we were warmed up, would I want my wife to give us some alone time, even if it was just to get started? The answer would be "yes" if it were a "deal-breaker"...probably "no" if it wasn't a deal-breaker (the idea of having both my wife and another girl there is hotter to me than just doing another girl).

Loki

[good times]

Listen to chicup, his post is excellent advice.

I can only ad one other thing. When looking for playmates, resist the urge of trying to hook up with people through non-traditional means (non-swingers), it almost never works out good. What I mean by that is, friends, acquaintances, random people on the internet, are not the way to go. To find playmates, go where the swingers are, like swingers clubs or swinger dating sights on the internet. The reason for this is, people who are swingers already know the rules. Personally, I wouldn't touch a single from a sex chat sight with a ten foot pole. The odds of him becoming a problem later are just too high. The standard non-swinger single that is willing to hook up with a married woman for sex often thinks that she needs him because she isn't satisfied with her husband. And if he likes her, he may decide that it is his mission in life to take her away from that. Whereas, an experienced swinger knows that it is just about recreational sex, and will not be nearly as likely to become drama that you will need to extricate yourself from later.

[CallMeLoki]

Originally Posted by good times

Listen to chicup, his post is excellent advice.

I can only ad one other thing. When looking for playmates, resist the urge of trying to hook up with people through non-traditional means (non-swingers), it almost never works out good. What I mean by that is, friends, acquaintances, random people on the internet, are not the way to go. To find playmates, go where the swingers are, like swingers clubs or swinger dating sights on the internet. The reason for this is, people who are swingers already know the rules. Personally, I wouldn't touch a single from a sex chat sight with a ten foot pole. The odds of him becoming a problem later are just too high. The standard non-swinger single that is willing to hook up with a married woman for sex often thinks that she needs him because she isn't satisfied with her husband. And if he likes her, he may decide that it is his mission in life to take her away from that. Whereas, an experienced swinger knows that it is just about recreational sex, and will not be nearly as likely to become drama that you will need to extricate yourself from later.

Thanks for the post. I think I catch your drift here. My wife has made it clear to the young fellow in question that he's a chat friend, a cyber-sex partner, and in person would be a "sex toy with a heartbeat"...nothing more. She's also made it perfectly clear to him that she's happy with me, and intends to keep it that way. I totally trust her to manage their relationship in a way that is not detrimental to us. (Now, maybe I'm being naive here, but I don't think so. As I said before, neither my wife nor I have ever cheated on each other...we seem to know how to handle our own emotions, even in cases where we might be infatuated with another person.)

To me, it seems like it would be much more enjoyable to her (and to me) for her to have sex with someone that she truly likes and has pent-up desire for rather than someone she just met at a swinger party, etc. I know the same would be true for me...I'd much more enjoy doing someone I had known for a while and liked as a person rather than someone I had just met, given equally attractive. Again, maybe I'm being naive (someone candidly tell me so if you think that's the case), but I believe we would both be able to manage any emotions in the right way. Somebody smack me if this is a red flag, please!

I'm not at all concerned that my wife would even feel tempted to ditch me for this 22 year old recent college grad, even if he tried to work that angle. My wife and I worked through some serious issues a few months ago (not at all related to any of this), and considered seperating. It was a very painful time for both of us...I could see the pain she was enduring, and it made me turn my own perspective around. In a nutshell, we both agreed to reset to zero, focus on giving each other what we need from each other, and making our marriage work. To me, that says that we have a stronger marriage than either of us tend to think we do. (And just for the record, swinging or any other kinky stuff was definitely not a consideration....it was the farthest thing from either of our minds at the time.) We are doing extremely well in my opinion. I think that all the open honesty that even considering something like swinging requires has really helped us connect with each other unlike we ever have before (and that's true whether we ever do swing or not). Anyway, my point here is that if there were any alterior motives on my wife's part, she would have said "yes, let's seperate, at least for a while". She definitely did not....quite the opposite..."I really don't want to lose you or lose us" was the gist of it, and we've both kicked ourselves into the right mindset since. Now, they do talk a lot over chat and occasionally phone, but I don't see that as anything to be alarmed over. I do feel comfortable that her relationship with her cyber-bud is "safe" for us, and I trust her to manage it. I don't normally go and read her chat logs (I did once when something she quoted from him concerned me), but I know she'll openly let me read them (and she does chat with him at work as well, but I'm sure she'd let me read those logs too if I asked)...I ask first out of respect for her. She usually sends me a copy of any particularly hot cyber-sex encounters with him.

I guess my thought is the old "set it free and if it comes back to you it's yours" mindset. I don't want someone to be with me because I've chained and shackled her to me...I want her to be with me because she wants to. If she ever stops wanting to be with me, then she's free to go. (Now, not that losing her wouldn't hurt...it certainly would. But, if she didn't WANT to be with me, I'm not going to force her to...that's not the kind of marriage I'd want to have.) If you chain someone to you, then you never know for sure if they want to be with you or they're only there because of the shackles, ya know? It's very reassuring to set someone free and watch them stick around because they want to.

So, I think we can definitely say my wife has a "crush" or infatuation with this young guy. And I'm OK with that, I don't feel like it threatens our marriage. Crushes and infatuations have a tendency to expire over time. I've certainly had a few infatuations with other people...we both have, we've just never acted on them. (I actually think everyone gets infatuated with other people from time to time, whether they are willing to admit it or not. We've reached a level of emotional maturity and trust in each other that we can freely admit these things. I think that's a good thing, isn't it?) I'm quite infatuated with a waitress at a local restaurant right now...we flirt quite a bit, and we just discovered that she tried her hand as an exotic dancer for 3 months not too long ago (which makes me like her even more). My wife knows I've got the hots for this girl, so she requests her section every time we go there. Who knows, she might be a good candidate for an FMF experience for me. We'll see, I guess.

My wife and I are even advising each other on how to best pursue and interact with these other people...we're treating each other like "best friends" as well as spouses and lovers. I believe that is a quite unusally cool thing for two spouses to do, IMO.

Now, I should note that I've encouraged her to enjoy some cyber-sex adventures with this fellow. I've certainly had some erotic fun at strip bars, and since my wife isn't interested in male strippers, some cyber-sex adventures certainly seemed like a good choice for her. I want our relationship to be fair to both of us, and this seems to me to be a pretty harmless way for her to have some erotic fun too. At first they merely chatted about intellectual stuff and flirted a bit, but it progressed from there. I do realize that folks sometimes develop emotional attachments from cyber-sex...I've asked my wife if she feels like this has progressed to an "emotional affair" and she says no, and I believe her. Even if he wasn't 3-4 hours away, I would still trust her to be up-front about what goes on. She's got a crush on the dude, and I'm perfectly OK with that...I want her to actually just enjoy it with my blessing, it's OK. I know she's really enjoying the pursuit and conquest aspects of it, and I hope the trust I'm showing her sets a precedent for us in terms of trust (which I believe it already has). For instance, the waitress I mentioned above is local...I want my wife to trust me to not do anything behind her back. (And actually, there's no reason for me to do anything deceitful...my wife has given me her blessing to get this waitress in the sack with us if we get an opportunity.) Distrust breeds distrust, and trust breeds trust...ya know?

Anyway, do you folks think we are really going about this wrong, and should stick to a more conventional approach of finding potential partners through swinger parties, swinger web-sites, etc.? Post your candid thoughts please! The last thing I'd want to do is damage our own relationship.

Loki

[cvcple]

We both agree with GOODTIMES. your best bet is through actual swinger sites and clubs/parties. The reason we say this is through experience. We had a mfm participant, that we knew before the sex, decide that he needed more than just an occasional party. It was difficult trying to explain it was just sex and to move on. Real swingers know it is just sex and you will usuall have a pretty good selection of playmates.

[good times]

Originally Posted by CallMeLoki

Thanks for the post. I think I catch your drift here. My wife has made it clear to the young fellow in question that he's a chat friend, a cyber-sex partner, and in person would be a "sex toy with a heartbeat"...nothing more. She's also made it perfectly clear to him that she's happy with me, and intends to keep it that way. I totally trust her to manage their relationship in a way that is not detrimental to us. (Now, maybe I'm being naive here, but I don't think so. As I said before, neither my wife nor I have ever cheated on each other...we seem to know how to handle our own emotions, even in cases where we might be infatuated with another person.)

Unfortunately, based on experience, I can tell you that it really doesn't matter what you tell him. He will agree to anything while his raging hormones are in control. The important thing is, does he understand swinging, and truly accept and respect all that it entails. We see a lot of single guys at the clubs we attend, and my guess is that less than 10% of them understand what swinging really is about.

As far as you or your wife's motivations are concerned, I have seen nothing here that would worry me so far.

Originally Posted by CallMeLoki

To me, it seems like it would be much more enjoyable to her (and to me) for her to have sex with someone that she truly likes and has pent-up desire for rather than someone she just met at a swinger party, etc. I know the same would be true for me...I'd much more enjoy doing someone I had known for a while and liked as a person rather than someone I had just met, given equally attractive. Again, maybe I'm being naive (someone candidly tell me so if you think that's the case), but I believe we would both be able to manage any emotions in the right way. Somebody smack me if this is a red flag, please!

SMACK!!!

Well, not really a red flag, in fact it is a pretty common feeling for new swingers to have. What you don't realize yet is that it is just as easy (way easier than we thought when we were in your position) to find someone you like that gets you just as hot and turned on within the swinging community as it is outside of it. Actually it is much easier within the swinging community than outside of it, mainly because their is much less risk of the drama I have warned of within the swinging community. So, it is much easier to let yourself go and get to know someone without any worries they will take it the wrong way and create drama later.

Originally Posted by CallMeLoki

I'm not at all concerned that my wife would even feel tempted to ditch me for this 22 year old recent college grad, even if he tried to work that angle. My wife and I worked through some serious issues a few months ago (not at all related to any of this), and considered seperating. It was a very painful time for both of us...I could see the pain she was enduring, and it made me turn my own perspective around. In a nutshell, we both agreed to reset to zero, focus on giving each other what we need from each other, and making our marriage work. To me, that says that we have a stronger marriage than either of us tend to think we do. (And just for the record, swinging or any other kinky stuff was definitely not a consideration....it was the farthest thing from either of our minds at the time.) We are doing extremely well in my opinion. I think that all the open honesty that even considering something like swinging requires has really helped us connect with each other unlike we ever have before (and that's true whether we ever do swing or not). Anyway, my point here is that if there were any alterior motives on my wife's part, she would have said "yes, let's seperate, at least for a while". She definitely did not....quite the opposite..."I really don't want to lose you or lose us" was the gist of it, and we've both kicked ourselves into the right mindset since. Now, they do talk a lot over chat and occasionally phone, but I don't see that as anything to be alarmed over. I do feel comfortable that her relationship with her cyber-bud is "safe" for us, and I trust her to manage it. I don't normally go and read her chat logs (I did once when something she quoted from him concerned me), but I know she'll openly let me read them (and she does chat with him at work as well, but I'm sure she'd let me read those logs too if I asked)...I ask first out of respect for her. She usually sends me a copy of any particularly hot cyber-sex encounters with him.

As I indicated before, you, as a couple aren't the issue here. The problem is, if this guy creates drama, or starts stalking your wife, or brags about his exploits with your wife around town, all things that swingers do not do, but non-swingers do to often, extricating yourself from it can turn what could have been a great experience into a nightmare.

Originally Posted by CallMeLoki

Anyway, do you folks think we are really going about this wrong, and should stick to a more conventional approach of finding potential partners through swinger parties, swinger web-sites, etc.? Post your candid thoughts please! The last thing I'd want to do is damage our own relationship.

I have to answer yes to this question.

We ourselves made the similar mistake of trying to gain our first experience in swinging with non-swinger friends we already knew. It was a total disaster.

We have also known many folks who tried what you have envisioned doing here, and while we have occasionally met someone who had it work out, the vast majority of them, more than 90%, wish they hadn't taken this approach and severally regret it. That does not include the group that we know exist but personally know very few of, that the experience was so bad it caused them to give up the idea of swinging all together.

[iapr]

Originally Posted by good times

Unfortunately, based on experience, I can tell you that it really doesn't matter what you tell him. He will agree to anything while his raging hormones are in control. The important thing is, does he understand swinging, and truly accept and respect all that it entails. We see a lot of single guys at the clubs we attend, and my guess is that less than 10% of them understand what swinging really is about.

As far as you or your wife's motivations are concerned, I have seen nothing here that would worry me so far.


SMACK!!!

Well, not really a red flag, in fact it is a pretty common feeling for new swingers to have. What you don't realize yet is that it is just as easy (way easier than we thought when we were in your position) to find someone you like that gets you just as hot and turned on within the swinging community as it is outside of it. Actually it is much easier within the swinging community than outside of it, mainly because their is much less risk of the drama I have warned of within the swinging community. So, it is much easier to let yourself go and get to know someone without any worries they will take it the wrong way and create drama later.


As I indicated before, you, as a couple aren't the issue here. The problem is, if this guy creates drama, or starts stalking your wife, or brags about his exploits with your wife around town, all things that swingers do not do, but non-swingers do to often, extricating yourself from it can turn what could have been a great experience into a nightmare.



I have to answer yes to this question.

We ourselves made the similar mistake of trying to gain our first experience in swinging with non-swinger friends we already knew. It was a total disaster.

We have also known many folks who tried what you have envisioned doing here, and while we have occasionally met someone who had it work out, the vast majority of them, more than 90%, wish they hadn't taken this approach and severally regret it. That does not include the group that we know exist but personally know very few of, that the experience was so bad it caused them to give up the idea of swinging all together.

Amen to this Brother!!

This needs to be cut and pasted to every thread where a newbie wants to start swinging with established friends, vanilla acquaintances and coworkers etc etc.

Even if a vanilla is horny or promiscuous or open minded vanillas are vanillas for a reason and if people want to swing they should go with swingers for the reason Good Times stated above.

[fun4Ds]

Originally Posted by CallMeLoki

Anyway, do you folks think we are really going about this wrong, and should stick to a more conventional approach of finding potential partners through swinger parties, swinger web-sites, etc.? Post your candid thoughts please! The last thing I'd want to do is damage our own relationship.

No one can say you are wrong. That fate can only be in your hands if things don't work out. I feel GT is only saying you are taking higher risks, going about this, the way you are. Not that it couldn't work or even hasn't worked, for a few. But there is an easier way, and thats pertaining to people in the swinging community.

We would have to agree with our experience. We play with single males and single females. So far, with great outcomes. The single males we have played with have been very experienced within the lifestyle. No drama, no issues to work on. Just good sex. Yes, they even have had partners previously in the lifestyle. To us that gives certainty that everyone understands. We just like to keep things in a less risky area. We are just pointing out some potential risks. You seem to have a great relationship, how do you both feel about taking this in a less risky way ?

Do you think that you couldn't meet people in the lifestyle that would excite you, like the male and female you have your sights on now ?

I'm just saying, there are some really sexy people in the lifestyle . Don't over look that

[arvcpl]

I also agree strongly with Good Times and think that you should keep your friends and chatroom buddies out of your bedroom. I think the best idea that you have presented is to go to a swingers club or party and meet real swingers in the flesh.

Here are some other thoughts, a 20-something cyber chat buddy that is willing to travel to meet a 40 something married woman is downright fishy. Shouldn't a 20something guy be chasing 20 something single girls? At best he may be some nerdy, isolated, shy boy that has developed some kind of cyber crush on your wife and he is having fantasys of her leaving you for him and then they are going to ride off into the sunset together. What you are wanting is an MFM experience with an body to fullfill a fantasy that will add excitement into your own sexlife as a couple. In other words you are just using the other male as a warmblooded dildo that talks and has hands and a tongue. The other male is just an adjunct to your sexual experience like a vibrator or a bottle of massage oil. To this young guy it is a whole different reality and he is probably fantasizing about he and her having this wonderfull relationship without you. An experienced and legitimate single male in the lifestyle knows he is just a dildo that talks and likes it that way and is consenting to that.

Go to a swing club and meet real swingers. Real swingers understand and consent to the fact that couples are bringing others into their bedroom as an enhancement to their own sexual experience. Vanillas and chatroom denizens don't get that.

[twohots4u2]

Every swinger has to start somewhere. This sounds like a feasible way to start. We feel that it is far better to hook up with a relative stranger than to try to convert a vanilla friend or someone you have known in business, etc. We love to play, but we like to keep it separate from our "real" life. Since he is 40 miles away that is probably enough separation. Before you actually meet him, we recommend that you lay it out for him. He is being invited to join a couple and work with the husband give the wife all the pleasure she desires. And, no matter how well it goes, it will probably be a one-time thing, as neither of you want it to interfere with your relationship.

[CallMeLoki]

Hey folks:

Thanks for all the advice! I have to admit, you folks are making me question our tentative plan (and questioning is definitely a good thing).

The thing that makes this young dude appealing is that he's young, somewhat inexperienced, he's hot for my wife, my wife is hot for him, he's 300 miles or so away (although it is conceivable that he *could* end up working closer to us), their chatting started as a friendship (she met him on a sex forum, but it was more a discussion forum rather than a "hook-up" forum). She's made it perfectly clear to him that he'd be a dildo with heartbeat, and that this experience is for "us" (me and my wife) moreso than for him, although he certainly gets to enjoy it too. He IS pursuing a young lady his own age, and in fact he's said that if they end up dating he wouldn't want to do this playtime.

Now, I have to admit, the one thing that does make me wonder given all your advice is that he's asked for some alone time with my wife. He says he'd be quite self-conscious in front of an older, more experience man...but I'm sure he is fantasizing about my wife (which is fine with me). The details of what he's fantasizing about, I don't know. However, I'm actually happy to give them some alone time, as long as my wife feels safe about it.

So now, you folks have me wondering: what's the worst possible thing that could happen if we do this? I think my wife would really like to have another girl involved at the same time, so that it's all "fair" without any delay.

Question: is the fact that he and my wife have an existing friendship (that involves some cybersex) a red flag?

And, yes, we live in a fairly metropolitan area, and there seem to be plenty of swingers and sex freaks here. My wife and I are both attractive people (we're not magazine models or anything, but we both seem to attract attention in a social setting), so I'm sure if we went to a swinger party we'd have several interested couples to choose from.

Hmmm...you folks keep the advice coming! My wife should be along shortly to post her views, I think...

"Him"