Outted myself in a most horrifying way...read on

Okay, all of y'all are going to want to puke at this and you'll be thanking GOD that it wasn't you. Even you atheists out there.

Brace yourself...

I not only outed myself (I think), I revealed another scary secret about myself: I talk to myself when I'm alone driving in the car. It's a helluva long commute to and from work, and sometimes I have a lot on my mind. Music works sometimes, but other times, I just need to vocalize my thoughts, set them in order and make them make sense to myself. What comes out sounds a bit like a monologue you'd hear on a podcast/audioblog.

I find the fact that I do this quite embarrassing to begin with, but it's harmless enough, right? I can talk about any old thing I please, as loud as I please, get it off my chest and get it out of my system. It's a good stress reliever. Wonderful.

So anyhow, I was driving home the other day from work and I had attended a workshop on Queer Positive Spaces, which is like sensitivity training for working within a LGBTQ-pro environment. This sparked my imagination and creativity and I started putting thoughts together. What about swingers? How, if at all, would they fit under this umbrella? So I started on my monologue. It lasted a good while, covering a wide array of issues in what I felt was a coherent and organized manner and wrapped it up nicely when I pulled into the driveway. I'm getting things gathered up to head into the house and happen to glance down at my cell phone which was plugged into my handsfree headset (earphones weren't in, but the mic was clipped to my lapel).

The screen was lit. It had accidentally dialed my VERY VANILLA best friend since childhood and had been online for 2 minutes and 47 seconds.

I hung it up and literally threw the blasted contraption away from me like it was on fire. My hands started to shake and my stomach clenched. Oh. My. God. WTF have I done? So for 2:47, my poor friend got an earful of some very um...enlightening...conversation. I found a pair of balls and called her back immediately, knowing that delaying it would only make it seem worse. I lied my ass off, telling her that what she heard was a podcast recording that I was listening to on the speaker (recorded from the workshop I attended earlier that day, conveniently), and I must have accidentally dialed her number and that's what she heard.

Okay people...give it to me straight. How believable does that sound? I WAS at a workshop that fit nicely into my explanation. It's a quasi-reasonable explanation as long as she doesn't look up the particulars of my phone and find out that it doesn't have this kind of capability. And of course, being an extreme vanilla, she WANTS to believe me.

Here's the catch: she had 2 minutes and 47 seconds to recognize my voice. Do you think the desire to believe me might be enough to overcome what her ears told her? The voice might've sounded like me, but the "me" she knows would NEVER say the things I was saying.

Sympathy cards welcome.

If you never bring it up again, neither will she. -- Ed

I'm just concerned because she's deeply religious, and she might feel it's her duty to get together an exorcism posse, likely consisting of a large number of my equally devout family members and her father, a minister, and all of them show up on my doorstep ready to thump me back onto the straight and narrow.

Okay, that's a pretty extreme fear, and I'm hoping she'll just keep it to herself. It was pretty scary sounding stuff, no doubt. So I doubt she'll want to bring it up again. But I'm afraid it's one of those things that if we don't talk about it, it makes it even more suspicious.

The fear will fade. Every day that you don't mention it, it will get farther away.

You're right, she WANTS to believe you.

I'm sorry for the heart attack you gave yourself.

Keep breathing, okay?

I don't have any advise for how to handle this; but I loved reading the story. You just made my day. I feel better about that time I asked a workmate if he minded if I hit on his hot wife (jesting). He said not at all, picked up the phone, dialed her number and handed me the phone. All of this with everyone else in the work area watching. How do you recover from a blunder like that?

It has been a long day. Thank you!

I can't tell you how many times I have been on both ends of a similar situation. I've never listened to one of my friends for more than half a minute or so (that's usually when the guilt overcomes the voyeur in me).

I like the "don't bring it up again" approach that others have suggested unless you decide you need to discuss it in depth with your friend.

Okay people...give it to me straight. How believable does that sound?

Um, I just ran the numbers through the Swinger HQ multi-weird-experiences computer. The results?:

Depending on the gullibility of your friend, and if she is reasonably intelligent, I'd say you are screwed. Sorry.

If they bring the posse after you I guess you could always make a podcast and point them to that?

Good luck.

John

Intuition,

I always find it interesting when people are concerned when a, "highly religious" person is exposed to something that we feel will violate their religious beliefs and then cause a strong reaction from them.

I grew up in a small N.E. Texas town. Dry county. And the Southern Babtist Church, and all of its tabus about just about everything, were the public norm. My bet is that because this was not a "public" thing that she would be forced to react to because of her public persona, there will be no reaction from her at all.

The hypocrocy of most organized religions is that they are "do as I say, not as I do." Keep in mind that if she is married, and has children, then you can bet that she is pretty well exposed to sex. She probably has a battery powered friend hidden in a drawer somewhere. And she probably has fantasies that could be just about anything.

I find it interesting that she hung on and listened for three minutes. My experience has been that the truly hyper religious would have hung up the instant that she figured out what you were talking about. But she didn't. That means she was interested in listening to what you were saying. If it had disgusted her, she would have hung up.

And yes, the subterfuge that it was a recording isn't going to wash. She recognized your voice. But that is ok. She now has an excuse to ignore it if she wishes. But I bet you gave her some food for thought.

My suggestion is to ignore the whole event. Act the way you normally would around her and play like it didn't happen.

S

Intuition, I'm sorry this happened! I would be on pins and needles if certain people found out, too.

I agree with the others who said that she's probably intelligent enough to know it was your voice. I also agree with the others that she may well choose to accept your excuse and not talk about it again. I second the motion that you just go on from here, as if it didn't happen. If she "plays" that way too, it's what she wants - to just forget about it.

That is a worst nightmare come true, so sorry it happened to you.

99% certainty she recognized your voice. When her phone rang, your's is the voice she was expecting to hear, so very unlikely she didn't recognize it as you even though the words she heard weren't what she was expecting.

She probably does want to believe you, but I wouldn't confuse that with whether she really did or not. Without knowing the dynamics of the friendship, my guess is out of politeness if nothing else she is going to acknowledge to you that she accepts your explanation, whether she really does or not. She can still have serious doubt without flat out telling you she doesn't believe you.

Everybody has moments in life that were mortifying in their mind and they would give anything to take back. No matter how vanilla, your friend is no exception. Friends keep friend's moments to themselves knowing they would hope for the same were the roles reversed.

She didn't hang up on the initial call and she took your call back, so the damage is probably not as bad as you are making it out in your mind to be. She probably can't help herself from being very curious wondering "what was that all about?" Most likely she will keep what she thinks she has learned to herself, but her opinion of you (and even others associated with you) may have suffered. That's rough, but it's the way people are. It's painting with a broad brush, but it seems the more religious someone is, the more likely they are to judge others. It would take someone really out there though to want to blow this up on a friend by calling in family, etc for an intervention/exorcism. For what small consolation it is, if she's that type, she's someone to steer clear of anyway.

Act normal, play it cool. In your mind finesse the story keying on the work-related aspect to make it even more believable and to reinforce the "out" on what she wants to believe about you. Don't directly bring it up with her, but subtly give her an opening to ask and if she bites, then present the finessed version. Don't let it turn into a Q&A session about your personal life/beliefs, stick with the story and go no further, no matter how tempting. If she doesn't bite, let it die. Either way, that should be the end of it, although be prepared for the possibility that your friendship will recalibrate and be different from this point forward.

If your worst fear comes true (very unlikely) and others get involved, same thing. Present finessed story, nothing more, then push back at any attempts of digging for more details.

Time heals all, so this too will pass.

OP said, "I talk to myself when I'm alone driving in the car...sometimes I have a lot on my mind. Music works sometimes, but other times, I just need to vocalize my thoughts, set them in order and make them make sense to myself."

Wow...thats me...I do that all the time. I drive abut 35,000 miles per year, mostly by myself. I always double check my cell phone before I start one of my monologues. The same thing has happened to me. I knew we were kindred spirits!

cplnuswing said, "Act normal, play it cool." Good advice. One problem. If she says she knows without a doubt that it was you talking and she now has come to beleive your are some kind of "pervert"...well then, just act normal...play it cool. Cool confidence under fire will always prevail! My personal opinion...you are more normal than most of the rest of the world. You know what you want in life and you make no apologies. That is the whole of the "cool confidence" you need to exude. And as a couple of others here have said, she might even be interested herself...

don't worry. If she brings it up again, just stick to your story. I mean she hasn't witnessed you in the act of swangin'? So just deny, deny, deny!

This is definitely one of my worst nightmares come true. The only worse person who could've picked up the phone was my Mom. Now THAT...that would've been REALLY bad.

I wouldn't say my friend is stupid at all. But she's definitely a victim of religious brainwashing. It's part of who she is now, and it's what she's been marinated in since...well...birth. It works for her, though; she's happy in her life. She probably hung on the line scared shitless. This is like walking in on someone in while they're masturbating! She's the kind of person who doesn't even want to admit that sort of thing goes on, let alone see it. I think she still won't have sex with the lights on. I'm thinking that I just did my best to give her an out to cling to if she chooses to. Sort of my unspoken way of saying, "I'm offering to never bring this up or expose you to it again."

SingleAgain: Thank you thank you thank you. I'm so glad to hear that I'm not the only one who does this. It's something I never even told Mr. intuition about because I thought it was so weird! And there's not much he doesn't know about me. I'm sorry to hear that this has happened to you, too. You can bet your ass it won't happen again though!!

I think if she backs me into a corner and confronts me, saying it was definitely me, I'll be left with no choice but to 'fess up and explain that what she heard was a) taken out of context, b) not meant for her to hear, and c) a very personal thought. I'd have to tell her that my phony explanation was my shoddy attempt at smoothing down the edges and trying to keep something that doesn't change anything between us from causing a rift. This is something that has been true about me for a long time now, and it hasn't changed the 'me' she knows. I just don't want anything to damage our friendship. It would really truly break my heart to lose a lifelong friendship over something like this. Like many religious nuts, she doesn't subscribe to the live-and-let-live thing. She feels it's her personal responsibility to evangelize and save souls by getting them to conform to the status quo. At least, this is what I believe about her.

Intuition,

Keep in mind that everyone, you, and me included, have two personas at least. Who we present to the general public, and who we really are. In your friends case, she probably has three or four. Her public persona, her church persona, her husband persona (if she has one) and who she really is. Don't judge her yet. Believe me, I grew up with this.

S

You may be surprised...the Swingers Board may get a new member out of this.

I think "ncmd couple" has it right. There is the persona she presents to her friends but her personal thoughts, feelings and fantasys may be quite different. My experience is a case in point; my present wife I met at a church youth group...I went there because I knew that was a frustrated bunch of people...I wasn't wrong.

First of all:

O

M

G

!

I feel for you. That is a 6-pack of major suck. I can imagine that moment of panic when you realized what was going on.

I think if she backs me into a corner and confronts me, saying it was definitely me, I'll be left with no choice but to 'fess up and explain that what she heard was a) taken out of context, b) not meant for her to hear, and c) a very personal thought. I'd have to tell her that my phony explanation was my shoddy attempt at smoothing down the edges and trying to keep something that doesn't change anything between us from causing a rift.

I like this. It's hard to argue with, and puts the issue to rest (or at least should).

Best of luck to you with this.

Hopefully, this will result in a story you can laugh about in the future, and not some major BS.

Don't quit verbalizing your thoughts outloud...just keep the phone off ). The best way to strengthen your resolve on any issue is to state outloud how you feel about it.

ncmd_couple: I know that there are secret parts of each of us, her included. I mean, I KNOW this about her, because the things she professes to believe can't be believed by a completely logical and intelligent mind. Not her faith, but the things she attaches to it. What she says is right and wrong. It's all learned thoughts and behaviour (I should know...I grew up marinated in it, too). But it feels wrong to me to point that out to her if she doesn't want to believe anything different. I'm just saying that it only makes sense that there are parts of each person that no one knows but the person him or herself. That's the essence of being human.

However, I've known her since we were 3. Literally. When we were about 7 or 8, we made a promise to always remain friends and, silly as it might sound, it really did stick. We've made sure that we each stood by our word. And now this. This really could cause a problem between us because she is NOT open-minded. Everything in me screams that she will not understand. It's why I never told her about it. We all have to trust our gut, and that's what my gut tells me: she can't - or won't - handle it. What she'll see is that I am "unwell". That my life - spiritual life, marital relationship, self-esteem, etc. - are in the crapper, and the things she heard are evidence of that. If my fears are correct, the option of trusting me when I say I'm fine is no longer there for her...because I am unfit to judge whether I'm okay or not. Like an anorexic says there's nothing wrong with not wanting to eat, or the alcoholic/addict says he/she can stop anytime they want to. To her, it will just sound like denial.

I'm bracing myself. But I don't want to let this go for too long. I do want to talk with her soon and start getting things back on track if possible, or dealing with the awkwardness if necessary. I'm still going to try the denial route, because it's the least painful and most available for both of us. If she won't go for it, it's on to Plan B.

You have my sympathy, for sure. But this does remind me of the classic multiple-choice examination you give to a prospective candidate for a traveling salesman's job. You relate this scenario. A salesman takes his client out to dinner at a nice restaurant and after a while spots a really sharp young woman at another table. Having had a drink or two, he begins to describe, in lurid detail, what he would do with the woman if given the opportunity. The client says in a matter-of-fact tone of voice, "That young woman is my daughter." Here's the multiple choice: A) Pretend you are being treated for a rare mental illness. B) Offer to marry her. C) Apologize profusely. D) Leave your table, go sit down with the young woman, relate the whole story again and hope for the best.

I'm thinking that you, like the guy in the story, might want to admit that it is all true and hope for the best.

M

ncmd_couple: I know that there are secret parts of each of us, her included. I mean, I KNOW this about her, because the things she professes to believe can't be believed by a completely logical and intelligent mind. Not her faith, but the things she attaches to it. What she says is right and wrong. It's all learned thoughts and behaviour (I should know...I grew up marinated in it, too). But it feels wrong to me to point that out to her if she doesn't want to believe anything different. I'm just saying that it only makes sense that there are parts of each person that no one knows but the person him or herself. That's the essence of being human.

 

However, I've known her since we were 3. Literally. When we were about 7 or 8, we made a promise to always remain friends and, silly as it might sound, it really did stick. We've made sure that we each stood by our word. And now this. This really could cause a problem between us because she is NOT open-minded. Everything in me screams that she will not understand. It's why I never told her about it. We all have to trust our gut, and that's what my gut tells me: she can't - or won't - handle it. What she'll see is that I am "unwell". That my life - spiritual life, marital relationship, self-esteem, etc. - are in the crapper, and the things she heard are evidence of that. If my fears are correct, the option of trusting me when I say I'm fine is no longer there for her...because I am unfit to judge whether I'm okay or not. Like an anorexic says there's nothing wrong with not wanting to eat, or the alcoholic/addict says he/she can stop anytime they want to. To her, it will just sound like denial.

 

I'm bracing myself. But I don't want to let this go for too long. I do want to talk with her soon and start getting things back on track if possible, or dealing with the awkwardness if necessary. I'm still going to try the denial route, because it's the least painful and most available for both of us. If she won't go for it, it's on to Plan B.

Well, in that case, go with your gut instincts and hope for the best. But there is just one thing that I have learned in life, "to your own self be true." Good luck!

S

Personally, I would just stick to my story. Chances are, she won't bring it up...ever. Just relax...if you start to act suspicious, then she will start to wonder.

By the way, a similar thing happened to us...he called his brother when we were on the way to visit friends .

I found a pair of balls and called her back immediately, knowing that delaying it would only make it seem worse. I lied my ass off, telling her that what she heard was a podcast recording that I was listening to on the speaker (recorded from the workshop I attended earlier that day, conveniently), and I must have accidentally dialed her number and that's what she heard.

 

I'm curious...what did she say when you called her back? How did she react?

If you don't make a big deal about it, hopefully she won't either. Most people would rather believe a lie than the truth any day, so hopefully she'll take your explanation and that'll be the end of it.

I wouldn't mention anything else about it. If she brings it up, you have the choice of either lying again and reiterating your original lie or just tell her that you love her, you value her friendship but this is one part of your life that is none of her business.

Good luck,

Teresa

I'm curious...what did she say when you called her back? How did she react?

She called the house and asked for me, actually. Mr. intuition asked me if I had gotten hold of her when I got back in. In the meantime, it took me about 2 minutes to stop hyperventilating and shaking and call her. I tried to keep the loud, high-pitch squeal out of my voice as I spoke, and I hope it worked. I started out by explaining that I was listening to a recording from my workshop that day (they brought speakers in and everything), and I must've accidentally hit the dial button. My phone has a speaker feature, so that sort of works. "Yeah," she said, "I heard some sort of...conversation...and I kept saying 'Hello?!' but..." I said the headphones were plugged in, but I didn't have them in, so I didn't hear her (I didn't mention that it had a mic!). "Oh" she said, "yeah, it was...WEIRD stuff...what kind of workshop was it?" I explained that it was a workshop on Positive Spaces for people who are in alternative lifestyles. She's laughing nervously throughout our conversation, but not enough. I said, "well if I'm going to call you, I guess I'd better say something, eh?" and I proceeded to make chit chat for a bit. Probably about a minute later, she says, "Well I'd better not run your cell phone bill up." and we said goodbye and hung up. My impression was that she was freaked out and didn't want to talk to me.

That's where it was left.

Most people would rather believe a lie than the truth any day, so hopefully she'll take your explanation and that'll be the end of it.

This is what I'm hoping for, and my thoughts exactly.

I wouldn't mention anything else about it. If she brings it up, you have the choice of either lying again and reiterating your original lie or just tell her that you love her, you value her friendship but this is one part of your life that is none of her business.

 

Good luck,

 

Teresa

Thanks, Teresa. I really wish I could trust her with the truth. Trouble is, she lives in the small town where I grew up...where my parents still live. If this ever got around - and it would! - I'd never feel comfortable going home again. You know how small towns are. I would have to ask her to vow to never say anything about it to anyone...not even her husband. I am afraid this is too big a burden to place on her, because to her, it's like asking her to please not call the cops when you've murdered someone. It would be a black spot on her conscience because everything about her that I know tells me that she would NOT agree with it. She would feel that it's wrong. So if she doesn't take the way out that I've given her (the lie), she'd better be ready for the truth. I'm just not sure she is. I'd love to feel optimistic about the outcome of such a conversation, but you know how arguments against opponents of swinging go. Everyone ends the conversation, neither party convinced of anything the other said.

If we get into it, I might refer her to libchrist.com It's not the be-all-end-all of poly-swinging-Christian theory, but it might be enough to start chewing on. The worst part is, I used to be where she is, and I know exactly how these ramblings must sound to her. They sound so wrong, sick and twisted. And even the attempts to on the "sicko's" part to help me understand only sounded like Satan trying to lure me away from the straight and narrow path to salvation. I've since come to realize that our definitions of God, Jesus, heaven, salvation, etc don't change what actually is. People keep trying to make reality fit their conceptions, when our job is the other way around: just look for the truth of things, and it will all suddenly fit together and make sense. And to not be afraid of truth.

I just wanted to thank everyone for the support. Seriously it does make it easier to deal with to hear other perspectives and your encouragement. I'm just trying to maintain my grip and say the mantra, "It is what it is." No point worrying about it. I'm not doing anything wrong, and it would be unfortunate for everyone to find out because I KNOW it would change the way people look at us, but the bottom line is...I'm not ashamed. Just scared. Lots of crazies out there. And it's not me that I'm worried about; it's my kids. I don't want them turned against us or thinking that their parents are sick.

So im told , its ok to talk to yourself... as long as you dont answer

I like you , quite often verbalize my thoughts ,

I dont envy you the delimma your in and dont know that any thing i say could be of help , but here goes.....First off , im betting that as long as you 2 have been friends, she would see through a lie from you a mile away, and the same would hold true if she were to tell you one....that being said if approached (1) I would answer her question (s) but only those asked without leading any further , (2) tell her that unfortunately her number was dialed by mistake and she overheard some very private thoughts not intended for anyone , and as embarrassing as it was could it just be forgotten and try to go on as if nothing had happened ....

Another thought for you as well , in each of us there are thoughts feelings and desires that are shared with no one, im betting that as well as you know your "very Vanilla Friend" there are things about her that if known would probably curl your hair....just a thought

thanks for listening

 

Thanks, Teresa. I really wish I could trust her with the truth. Trouble is, she lives in the small town where I grew up...where my parents still live. If this ever got around - and it would! - I'd never feel comfortable going home again. You know how small towns are.

Yeah, unfortunately I know small towns. One thing my momma used to tell us about people gossiping...if they're gossiping about you, just look at it as you're giving someone else a rest from being gossiped about. Today's hot topic is tomorrow's old news. Small towns are wonderful and they also suck.

I think you're pretty safe. She doesn't really want to know. Just act like it was so insignificant to you that you've already forgot about it. Things will work out fine.

Teresa

Oh man, that stinks on ice! I'd be mortified in your position, too. And it could very well happen to me, as I not only talk to myself in the car, but have childhood friend who would never, ever understand/accept my decision to participate in the lifestyle. ((Hugs))

She called the house and asked for me, actually. Mr. intuition asked me if I had gotten hold of her when I got back in. In the meantime, it took me about 2 minutes to stop hyperventilating and shaking and call her. I tried to keep the loud, high-pitch squeal out of my voice as I spoke, and I hope it worked. I started out by explaining that I was listening to a recording from my workshop that day (they brought speakers in and everything), and I must've accidentally hit the dial button. My phone has a speaker feature, so that sort of works. "Yeah," she said, "I heard some sort of...conversation...and I kept saying 'Hello?!' but..." I said the headphones were plugged in, but I didn't have them in, so I didn't hear her (I didn't mention that it had a mic!). "Oh" she said, "yeah, it was...WEIRD stuff...what kind of workshop was it?" I explained that it was a workshop on Positive Spaces for people who are in alternative lifestyles. She's laughing nervously throughout our conversation, but not enough. I said, "well if I'm going to call you, I guess I'd better say something, eh?" and I proceeded to make chit chat for a bit. Probably about a minute later, she says, "Well I'd better not run your cell phone bill up." and we said goodbye and hung up. My impression was that she was freaked out and didn't want to talk to me.

That's where it was left.

Yeah, I get the impression that she knew it was you, knew your excuse was b.s. and was a bit freaked. BUT, she's also probably very willing to accept the excuse because the alternative (for someone of her very conservative mindset) is almost unthinkable.

I'm just trying to maintain my grip and say the mantra, "It is what it is." No point worrying about it. I'm not doing anything wrong, and it would be unfortunate for everyone to find out because I KNOW it would change the way people look at us, but the bottom line is...I'm not ashamed. Just scared. Lots of crazies out there. And it's not me that I'm worried about; it's my kids. I don't want them turned against us or thinking that their parents are sick.

Absolutely. You really DON'T have anything to be ashamed of. And I'm betting that you've raised your kids to be accepting of others, so they would probably be just fine if they found out.

A friend once told me, "Everything works out. Things may not work out the way you planned, but they always work out."

So hang in there, Intuition. You'll get through this.

=)

"Oh" she said, "yeah, it was...WEIRD stuff...what kind of workshop was it?" I explained that it was a workshop on Positive Spaces for people who are in alternative lifestyles. She's laughing nervously throughout our conversation, but not enough.

 

So if she doesn't take the way out that I've given her (the lie), she'd better be ready for the truth. I'm just not sure she is. I'd love to feel optimistic about the outcome of such a conversation, but you know how arguments against opponents of swinging go.

 

If we get into it, I might refer her to libchrist.com It's not the be-all-end-all of poly-swinging-Christian theory, but it might be enough to start chewing on. The worst part is, I used to be where she is, and I know exactly how these ramblings must sound to her.

 

And it's not me that I'm worried about; it's my kids. I don't want them turned against us or thinking that their parents are sick.

Since she didn't jump on the chance to condemn "they made you attend something like THAT for work!", she sounds like she prefers to avoid things that make her nervous instead of crusading against them. You'll probably never hear a word about it again, just too uncomfortable a topic. It will shortly be pushed to the far recesses of her mind.

If not though, be careful with the truth in this case. There is another path - not the lie, not the truth. It takes two to argue, and there is no winning if the topic is such the other person is not open to other ideas. Any information you provide to justify your position just adds fuel to the fire. We have learned that lesson first hand (not a Lifestyle topic, but one equally damning in their mind). You can try to repeatedly reason with them by providing more information, or you can simply state the first time "I'm sorry if it bothers you, but you have no right to be involved in this decision, and the discussion is over, now and forever." If the disagreement is with someone who does truly care for you, it will eventually pass either way. The first approach might be easier in the short term since it is less confrontational, but it sure is a lot more drawn out and painful in the long run.

Concern for the kids is always a parent's first thought, and rightfully so. But, as parents, can't imagine a scenario where any child would love their parents any less because of some rumor around town. It's sad, but once they get old enough, kids deal with stuff like that every day - wrong clothes, wrong neighborhood, wrong friends, etc, etc. For those who know they are loved by those who really count to them, it hurts but just another day in the jungle. Tomorrow, it will be someone else.

Yeah, unfortunately I know small towns. Today's hot topic is tomorrow's old news. Small towns are wonderful and they also suck.

So true. We grew up in one, live in one, and have never known anything else. Some other shocker will come up in short order and knock you right off the top of the list.

We can relate to the position you find yourself in, we truly can, and would have exactly the same fears. It's scary. All you can do is keep your head up and keep marching along until it all blows over.

Wow Intuition!

I HAVE been walked in on while masturbationg...of course, being a guy, the odds of that happening are better than the sun coming up again tomorrow.

A few things are going through my mind.

1) If she is really a good friend, she knows you are telling a story. I would say that honesty is the best policy. The way she cut off your call is wierd for a friend, unless that's her MO.

2) Why have a friend you have to be so careful around? I know the answer...good friends are hard to find, but at what expense? Whose life is really being lived here.

I have some religious friends too. They always hang their heads when you disappoint them. After awhile they realize that it's your life. I hope she let's you off the hook. A good friend will try to find a way to make things easier for you knowing what an embarrassing thing happened. There is always room to hope for that

I do feel for you but you just have to go on.

All the best and watch out for that high tech stuff will ya?

Male D

Bless your heart. I can only imagine how you were/are feeling

My guess is that she will want to believe what you said. There will probably be a part of her that says, "boy, that all sure sounds like intuition!" but the other part, the part that will win, will say, 'no way ... I can't believe an employer would make her go to such a seminar! The blasphemy!"

As days go by, the more it will be forgotten by her because she will WANT to forget it. My guess is she loves you a lot, and wouldn't wish bad things on you for all the tea in China. So she'll keep the "secret" and just wonder ... wonder what it is she really does know.

The least you make of it the least it will be. If you try to justify or explain it it will only arouse suspicion just carry on and behave with her as you always have if she mentions it to you brush it off with the same explanation as you first gave. I hope all goes well for you.

Her hearing your private thoughts was an accident on your part. But it was not an accident that she listened. She should have hung up as soon as she realized she was listening in on your private thoughts.

You have nothing to explain, like I said these were private. You were alone in your car, so basically you were alone with your thoughts and your thoughts should be free for your speaking. If she questions you about it, don't explain yourself. Appologise that you made in error in hitting the dial button and nothing more.

If she is genuinly interested in what you had to say and wanted to speak to you woman to woman, that is your call.

Otherwise, no explaination or appology is nessesary here.

Hope it all works out for you

Your friend,

Prettylady:kissface:

Wow. What a situation. If it was me, with my luck she wouldn't have answered. Thank GOD it wasn't on voicemail. Hey Honey, come listen to this voicemail that Jenny left me. Is that wierd or what? What do you think we should do? Do you think we should call Father Smith?

At least it's still your word vs hers. There's no permanent record of the conversation.

its a tough spot you find yourself in. I too was raised in a church that this lifestyle would be tough to swallow, and it could be very tough to deal with.

which is why i no longer go to church.

On the one hand Intuition, this could be a good thing, just a bit hard to face, until you get through the repercussions. The preferance would be for your friend, to accept that you have thoughts and fantasies, that you try to keep to yourself. This time you believed you were simply verbalizing to yourself, a personal issue you were trying to work through. A suggestion you might consider, As I am fairly sure your friend understands we all have thoughts we arent supposed to have. And one way of dealing with them is to talk about those feelings, you were simply struggling with feelings and desires and working your way through them.

If I remember correctly, over the past year or two, you have mentioned something along the lines that you wish it were out in the open, no longer a secret. It is tough to hide something you secretly love doing, And wish your friends could share it with you. Maybe this will get you past the secrecy and allow you to feel freer.

This next part is not intended to start a fight, i certainly hope not, especially with you , because you have had so much valuable insight here, tht i would like to continue listening to what you have had to say.

As far as the church goes, they are good people who really mean to help, and care about you, but sometimes that caring "hurts" more than it helps. Some call it hypocricy to feel the same desires and fantasies, but my understanding is that unless they are saying don't swing or play outside of marriage, and then they do play or swing, that is hypocricy. What one feels is neither right or wrong it simply is what they feel. What they "do" may be right or wrong, not what they feel.

for example, we all feel angry from time to time and say things we feel like doing, but we do not act on those feelings and bring them under control. The feeling may have been strong, but our discipline kept us from causing harm. Is it wrong to feel angry? No. Is it wrong to injure someone because we are angry? Yes

Is it hypocricy to feel angry, but not injure them? No

Nor is it hypocrytical to have fantasies we never act upon. Acting out a fantasy is not hypocritcal. Sometimes it takes a lot of courage to act upon a fantasy, that seeks no harm, encourages honest conversation with a loved one.

Say to a playmate, "I LOVE you", with all the depth of meaning these words carry, when we are simply lying and really dont mean it, solely to fuck them, that is hypocritical.

You have had a lifetime friend, It may go through some rough times but in the end they will still care about you and hopefully you can work out something, where you still understand each other and retain that friendship, even if it does change a bit.

Have you talked to her again since this happened?

I outted myself in similar fashion to my mom a few years back. I emailed her and accidently hit the "hot key" to include my signature for a website I had at the time. It wasn't this website, it was a website that featured me doing very naughty things. the only saving grace I had was that at that particular time the front page of the site had a picture that was PG, if not G but the text was definately X-rated. She read the text of course and wanted to know if it was true. I ended up passing it off that it (the text about swinging) was just an act for the website.... which was more than bad enough in her book.

I liked what interested-05 had to say.

Intuition, you know we admire your thought processes and hope that nothing said here will change your mind on continuing to share them with us.

We don't know what kind of a friend this lady has been to you. Whether she is someone you shop with or talk about the kids etc. We have the friends we have who resemble this scenario for one reason or another...but usually because it fits at the time. If this lady starts to harp on you about wanting to know the real inner feelings you have or saying things like there must be more to all of this then you'll have to make a decision as to whether you can continue your friendship.

If you have mislead her in thinking that this would be so out of character for you to even think about these things...you know, a really close friendship where she finds that you have been leading a double life, then it may well be over.

Does that mean your life will end? Nah...but I say that from N. California...(kinda detached).

I just hope this gives you the opportunity to now "Practice what you preach". If you are able to enlighten her the way you have with all of us...well, I hope you have found that true friend for life.

M.D.

MtnSwing: The very same thought ocurred to me, too. It could've been worse. Voicemail. One of the kids. Her DAD, who often babysits...and is a minister.

interested: When I said that I wished we didn't have to hide what we do, I was telling the truth, but it's different than saying "I wish I had the balls to come clean." While I can't and won't apologize for being who we are and doing what we do, I would still feel very awkward because this knowledge would cause many people we love dearly to feel very uncomfortable around us...for no good reason at all.

The hard truth is, wishing is one thing, reality is another.

Julie: Your MOM?!? OMG... Now that is my #1 worst nightmare. No, I haven't spoken with her yet. I might, though. See if I can't get us back to where we can pretend it was a bad dream or something. Cowardly? maybe. I can't say exactly what I'll do when the moment comes, but whatever happens happens. The sun will come up the next day.

M.D.: "I just hope this gives you the opportunity to now "Practice what you preach". If you are able to enlighten her the way you have with all of us...well, I hope you have found that true friend for life."

Smarts when it bites you in the ass, don't it? I doubt I'll be able to reason with or "enlighten" her, unfortunately, but I have found our relationship evolving anyway. I guess it's going through another set of growing pains. This is by far the worst and biggest, though. *sigh* I guess it's a growth experience for all involved. Shit. I just wish it had never happened in the first place.

Yeah, it does smart a bit. At the risk of sounding trite or simplistic, I would have to say that life is like swinging...you fuck someone or get fucked by someone and move on. Sometimes you hang around a bit.

Every friendship has its moments; This is one of them.

I didn't mean to say by enlightening her that you would convince her to change her ways, but hopefully that rather she would see in you a person full of deep complicated feelings that only you can resolve...with her help?....

Really when I think of it, it's almost like we been listening in on your thoughts all thistime as if you'd been driving along all the time. You reason and argue and rest your point. Be like that with her and hopefully things will be stronger than ever between you.

M.D.

I have a sex-positive philosophy and don't try real hard to placate those who don't. If they won't accept me the way I am, that's just too bad. Some day when I have some time I'll have to relate the Concerned Women of America story for y'all.

So true intuition. thats why most of us choose discretion over," having the balls to come clean".

You are a good person, with a great sense of who you are. Thanks for all of your insight, we all hope and wish you the best.

I outted myself in similar fashion to my mom a few years back.

Julie, I remember when that happened. How has it worked out with your parents since then?

I have a sex-positive philosophy and don't try real hard to placate those who don't. If they won't accept me the way I am, that's just too bad. Some day when I have some time I'll have to relate the Concerned Women of America story for y'all.

Michael

Don't have time to read through all of the other responses, so here goes:

We are both from very religious families, and are very active in what is considered an extremely, extremely conservative organization. You never know if she may want to explore this lifestyle too. Do not assume someone is too straightlaced. If you two have been so tight since early childhood and she did not know this about you.........She may be a closet "freak" too.

Intuition; we feel for you this wouold be terrible to have happen, First off she sounds as if she is a true friend and if that is the case life and your friendship will go on however she may pray for you often. I think there have been lots of great ideas as how to handle this situation but i personall don't think trying to cover it up is a good idea, If she feels you are being untruthful that will end your friendship. Personally i would just act normal and if it comes up then sit down and talk it out. My life long best friend came out of the closet to her parents with me sitting there and although it wasn't what they wanted to hear it was the facts, your friend will understand no matter how wrong she may feel you are. "judge not least you be judged" and i feel that she will do you right it may just take some time for her to recover. After all its just talk and nothing more..

Thanks for all the advice, folks. I'm probably going to try to just pretend like nothing happened. If she wants to confront me about it, she's free to do so, but I'll warn her upfront to not go looking for truths unless she realizes they may not be what she wants to hear. If she persists, saying it WAS me she heard, no doubt about it, I'll probably just say that I'm not going to try to explain it because the truth of it is probably stranger than what she happened to overhear. And it really wasn't meant for her to hear anyway, so I'm sorry for burdening her with the worry of it. Please, can we both just forget the whole thing? It really isn't something she needs to worry about...honest.

She IS a good friend, and it would be her concern for me that would cause her the grief I had hoped to spare her from by being discrete about our activities. If she knew the real deal, she wouldn't be worried, but the trouble is, her upbringing has made it utterly blasphemous to even consider questioning what she's been taught. So...ignorance of the issue at hand reigns supreme, and because of that, fear and superstition cripple any attempts at effective dialogue. You can't convince a mind that doesn't want to be convinced.

I'll update you when I speak with her next.

Julie, I remember when that happened. How has it worked out with your parents since then?

It was a bad situation for a couple of weeks and then it just got dropped and it has NEVER come back up.

With people you love you have to learn that some topics are best left OFF the table.

It was a bad situation for a couple of weeks and then it just got dropped and it has NEVER come back up.

 

With people you love you have to learn that some topics are best left OFF the table.

I think that summed it up perfectly. It's precisely what I was thinking. I probably won't even be talking to her until after Christmas anyway, and by then it will likely be a foggy memory. The mind has a way of blurring the details of things we'd rather forget. And I'm hoping she'd realize that if she went digging for truth here, she'd be toying with the loss of our friendship, because it seems to me she wouldn't be able to let it go. There would always be this "thing" between us. I've already lost one friend because she couldn't respect my lifestyle choices...and SHE was the open-minded one! Losing this one, whom I've know much longer, to what amounts to nothing more than ignorance would hurt like hell.

UPDATE:

Spoke with my friend tonight and there was no mention at all of the weirdness. Turns out she's prengant again, so she's got other things on her mind! I was nervous to call her up, but it turns out that it was business as usual. Talk about having a horseshoe up one's ass.

And in other news, the other friend I mentioned that I had lost (because she couldn't respect me for swinging) sent me an email! I was pretty surprised. She apologized and said she'd been acting like an ass, passing judgment on me when she had no business doing so. I didn't argue with her. I did forgive her, though. I'm not in the habit of allowing myself to be used or abused by people, but in this case it was simply that she didn't understand and she didn't know how to see past this part of me. She still doesn't agree with it, but I think she is now able to at least deal with it. That's all I wanted.

You know, maybe I should have a girls night in or something. Get the guys to take the kids to Grandma's place or something and invite them both over. Rent some movies, drink some wine...non-alcoholic wine for Ms. Prego, of course. I think I need something like that... Just as long as friend #1 can remember to shut up and not tell friend #2 about our "hobby". lol Do you suppose I set myself up for this shit or what??

Ituition,

I think is is wonderful that you can carry on with them as friends

S

In all honesty, I haven't read the whole thread, but I did scan well all of Intuition's messages. Just don't have the time right now to catch everyone's messages. But a topic of being "outted" and when it's originated by "Intuition", it HAS TO BE READ.

For starters, sorry to hear this unfortunate situation occurred to you. Your comments over time have been very helpful and informative in many areas.

Please keep in mind that 2 minutes and 47 seconds is pretty much less time than one modern song. If your friend can't repeat a new song she hears word for word after hearing it ONCE, then you're clear. The bigger problem is that your conscience, for lack of a better word right now, is bothering you more. This will trip you up more than a 2 minute 47 second sound bite. If your friend acts like it's business as usual, you should be doing the same and move on.

By the way, (belated) holiday wishes to you and yours in whatever meanner you celebrate them.

Glad to hear things are working out. That's how you know your real friends, you may have issues from time to time but in the end you can agree to disagree and just drop certain subjects. I don't think you have to worry about hte one that knows saying anything to anyone else, and I think a girls night in is a great idea and could help you rebond and rebuild with both of them.