Auden_76

JnCC, Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore your question. You apparently posted while I was composing my own post. As to your main point--that some things simply cannot be ignored--I think I have conceded that. And indeed, your point is well-taken and I am grateful for it. As to whether or not it is actually humiliation that I enjoy--that will take some further reflection. After all, can any of us fully explain the things that turn us on? So there may be something to what you say. However, my gut feeling is that it misses the mark. I simply do not feel humiliated when I masturbate for someone, nor does the thought of someone humiliating me arouse any particular excitement. I do get off on the exposure and vulnerability, but only if my display is appreciated. I think like most people I would probably shrivel up and hide if someone were to make me an object of contempt. If there is truth in what you suggest, then, I think it may be that taking the risk of being humiliated, and yet being accepted, is what really turns me on. But it is clearly a complex thing. Anyway, thanks again for your thoughts. Peace, Auden

Hi again, Well, I continue this thread only with a certain hesitation, since I am clearly keeping in view something that many others find unpleasant. First of all, then, let me acknowledge that and thank you all for indulging me. Specifically, I want to thank Tribbles and Intuition for their encouraging words, and to respond to Intuition's question as to why I am interested in swinging at all. Needless to say, this conversation has given me occasion to ask myself that very thing. And after thinking about it, here's what I come up with. In the first place, I have to admit that perhaps I'm NOT actually interested in swinging. If, for example, swinging is primarily about having sex with an unspecified number of people, then I'm really not particularly interested. In fact, I have already turned down as many opportunities for play at swing events as I have accepted. True, I have only been to a couple of events, so some of this has to do with getting comfortable with it all. But as I look back, I do not think, "Gosh, I sure wish I would have jumped in on that!" On the contrary, my actual thoughts are, "Phew, nothing to regret!" As odd as it may seem, one of the most awkward things about swing events for me so far has been the matter of deflecting the advance of someone to whom I am not attracted. I know how much courage it takes to approach a person and make oneself available, so I am at considerable pains to offer my regrets in a way that leaves their self-esteem intact. I try to take the time to affirm them as a person, even if I cannot respond to them sexually. But it is awkward, and has almost driven me out the door a time or two. So what is it that attracts me to swing events? Well, as I play them back in my mind, it strikes me that some of the most enjoyable moments for me are those when I introduce myself to a couple or a woman and I am already completely nude. We make small talk, chat about this or that, sip our drinks and flirt a bit. But from the fact that I am completely nude, it is clear that I am available to them. At least symbolically, they are meeting me as I actually am and I have nothing behind which to hide. As I have already admitted, this kind of self-revelation is a huge turn on for me. Then perhaps they say, "Care to join us on the couch." Or perhaps I catch the woman admiring my penis and invite her to touch it. And things go from there. A moment ago, we were strangers. Now we are learning to give each other pleasure in the most intimate and personal ways. It skips right over all the headgames and BS and other pretentious nonsense that goes on everywhere else and leads us directly into an encounter with each other as naked, vulnerable human beings. A few hours later, we may go our seperate ways and never see each other again, or we may find that we want to know more about each other and keep in touch. Either way, in the meantime, we have shared a moment of authenticity and tenderness in what is often an otherwise bleak and heartless world. I LOVE that, and it is simply not the sort of thing you find elsewhere. But a natural extension of this, for me at least, is to masturbate for each other. Not always, of course, but sometimes. To my mind, as I mentioned in my previous post, masturbating for each other is a profound way of making ourselves vulnerable and of breaking down our egocentric pretensions. I realize that it is not for everyone, but I don't see why it needs to be such a taboo thing either. To be fair, though, this is perhaps not what people have reacted to so negatively. The scenario proposed in my original post, after all, had me masturbating more or less on my own. I see now how this could be an unwelcome display and am glad I did not simply presume to offer it at the events I have attended. What I would like to clarify, however, is what moved me to think of it at all. It was not just the lack of opportunities to be directly involved. True, there were times when the females that interested me were otherwise engaged and I did not want to interrupt. But there were other times when I simply wanted to take a break from direct participation and, so to speak, enjoy the view, soak up the atmosphere, ride the wave of sensuality taking place around me. I don't know, I guess I am a bit of a voyeur too and it only seemed natural to express my appreciation for the scene by stroking myself. Come to think of it, the impulse was not unlike that which leads me to offer applause for something that I have enjoyed without taking part in directly. But as I said, I do see now how it might be interpreted otherwise. As for Intuition's concern that my kink makes sense only in a M/F context, I see the point. And it does call for sensitivity. But I don't think it is necessarily a show-stopper (with apologies for the gratuitous double-entendre). Personally, I do not happen to be bi-sexual, but I am quite comfortable with men who are. And I have no problem with other men enjoying the show--if, in fact, any were actually to do so. I found this out a few years ago when, after visiting a friend and his wife for dinner, we all three ended up in bed together. It had never been a secret that she had the hots for me. What did come as a surprise was to find out that he did too! So, while she was sitting on my face, I suddenly felt another hand stroking me, and eventually another set of lips enclosing my penis--his! I was too involved at the moment with pleasuring her to say anything and so turned my attention back to what I was doing. Afterwards, he explained that he simply could not resist the sight of my penis straining upwards like that, and that he just had to find out what it felt like to have me in his mouth. I told him that I was glad to have provided him with the opportunity, but also that I did not think that I could ever reciprocate. He accepted this and that was that. Since then, though, I have never been uncomfortable around bi-sexual males and would certainly not object to masturbating for them. As far as I am concerned, the more the merrier! Nor do I object to seeing another man masturbating. At worst, it is simply natural. At best, it is a profound act of self-revelation. Well, anyway, I have gone on here at some length. So once again, thanks for reading. I've enjoyed the opportunity to be heard and hope you all find deep fulfillment in all the things that turn you on. As for myself, I'm really not sure I have the resources of time and money to find a group that will really accept me. But who knows--life is full of pleasant surprises--and some of your words give me renewed reason for hope. Peace, Auden

Once again, hi all, Well, I must say, this has been very helpful indeed. I posted this question in the newbies' forum because I am very new to the scene...and I admit, my assumptions about swinging were a bit naive, certainly simplistic. I think my mistake was to assume a more or less "if it feels good, do it" environment at a swing party. And I still think this is mostly true. But you are all very right to point out that each group has the right to draw the lines as to what is acceptable and what is not. Upon reflection, it occurs to me that there are certainly things that I myself would not find acceptible, even in the context of swinging--non-consensual sex, for example, or non-safe safe, or of course anything involving children. So I have to respect the fact that my particular kink is viewed as out of bounds by others. And if my first reaction seemed a bit defensive...well, it was. So I apologize for that. I think being compared by someone to dogshit on a lawn stung a bit. I should have taken a few more breaths before responding. But my surprise really was genuine--again, naivete on my part. Well, those are the main things I wanted to say. For those who are interested, however, I would also like to share a little bit about my kink--if only in the interest of mutual understanding. If you are not interested, then by all means stop reading. After all, the last thing I want to do is impose my thing on anyone else--as if I were one of those pathetic exhibitionists or something! [Wink, wink.] I believe my kink arises from a deep need for acceptance. My ex-wife and I used to masturbate for each other. I used to love to watch her pleasure herself--it may be the most beautiful thing I have ever seen--and of course I loved it when she watched me with similar appreciation. I don't think I have ever felt more completely and unconditionally accepted. After all, it goes without saying that masturbating is a very personal act, an act in which we are completely exposed and therefore supremely vulnerable. To share this deeply personal part of ourselves with another appreciative human being, then, is an absolutely delicious form of intimacy--at least for me. Why do I want to share this kind of intimacy with the people I meet at swing clubs? I don't know. Like I said, I think it has to do with acceptance. We all want to go where "everybody knows your name." I guess I imagine a place where everybody knows more than your name--they know everything about you, and they still embrace and accept you. I know that this is hopelessly utopian, but this is what masturbating for a group symbolizes for me. So, your objections notwithstanding, I do believe that my kink is fundamentally social. In fact, if I have made myself at all understood, I hope you will see why it is not something that I can do just as well alone. Of course I can masturbate alone, but then it really is just about me. And I believe that it is also about sharing. In fact, I think that is what prevented me from simply indulging myself at a party without first asking the question. If what I am offering is not welcome and does not also give others pleasure, then there is no appeal in it for me. So I am absolutely sincere when I thank you for sharing your perspective with me. I really DO NOT want to impose my thing on other people. As some of you have suggested, I just need to keep looking for the right group. In the meantime, by your frankness and honesty, you have spared me a lot of potential pain. So really, thanks. Finally, thanks for reading this far. I appreciate you taking the time to hear me out. I cannot speak for all those other creepy guys masturbating at swing parties, of course, but I do feel better at least having spoken for myself. So you all stay kinky, okay? It's beautiful, and I for one am glad you are out there. Peace, Auden

Hi again all, Well, I think I detect a consensus forming here--albeit mostly negative--and I want to thank you all for your honest feedback. That is precisely why I asked. I must say, though, that I am a bit surprised at the tenor of disgust I detect in some of the replies. After all, in the eyes of many mainstream people swinging itself is a creepy and degenerate practice. So I guess I simply did not expect swingers themselves--who often plead for tolerance and acceptance--to react quite so negatively to a kink they do not happen to share. But I did ask. So again, thank you for your frank and honest feedback. I guess I'll just continue to keep my self-pleasure to myself. Peace, Auden

Hi all, I am a male exhibitionist, who loves to be watched while I masturbate. So if I am at a swing club/party, and there is nothing better to do, is it acceptable for me simply to begin masturbating? Perhaps even invite people to watch me masturbate? I imagine positioning myself somewhere conspicuous, but not too conspicuous, so that people would not feel like they were spying on me, but could also ignore me if they preferred. Can I do this, or would it just be too wierd? Thanks, Auden_76