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Hi, Finding 4 people who all "click" in terms of physical attraction and personality is quite difficult. Imagine the difficulty of finding just ONE person who you really get along with, are attracted to and enjoy in the world of vanilla dating, then square that. If you are a straight couple, each playmate has to be attracted to the other; if you're a bi couple, the attraction goes either 3 or 4 ways, and and it's exponentially harder (no pun intended). There are several ways that people get past this, and sometimes don't get past it. Some couples realize that the attraction between the 4 members of the couple will never be equal, and, while not ever "taking one for the team", they accept that there are times when, for instance, the male may not be as attracted to the female of the other couple as the female is to the other male. They realize that this isn't a contest, that a "tit for tat" (again, no pun intended) attitude is generally detrimental in swinging, as long as both members of the couple are enjoying themselves and things average out. Other couples simply keep looking until they find others that they both like. If one member of a couple is extra "picky", this does limit their options to some extent. It would help us give advice if you could share with us what your "pickyness" entails: appearance, habits, profile characteristics, etc. However, if both members of the couple are good with searching until things align properly, that can certainly work. Finally, many couples, and I'm sure you'll hear from them here, have found that the difficulty in finding other couples with that 4-way vibe is such that they've started devoting their time to finding single guys/women for MFM, MMF, FFM, FmF...and all of the other permutations possible in threesome adventure. We ourselves don't limit our search to any one lifestyle niche; as a bi/bi couple, we're open to all, and we play straight or bi as the other couple wishes; no always means no. Tell us more about the characteristics of your "picky"-ness, and we will be able to help in a more specific fashion! T

If you are active in the Swing Lifestyle, I doubt it will take very long for you to adjust to the "Naturist" Lifestyle. In fact, I predict two-shakes of a lambs tail. If it is unfamiliar territory however, I highly recommend checking into it a bit. It always helps to be prepared. Try checking out a few places like the AANR and TNS sites (both have excellent FAQ pages, for starters), Wikipedia, and a simple web search. It will not take a big time investment to get the big picture, and I am betting you will enjoy your first full-fledged experience much more. American Association for Nude Recreation The Naturist Society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturism As you have probably guessed... "Naturist" and "Naturism" are the modern "PC" terms for Nudist and Nudism. ?

This is huge and completely true. One of those things that the 'average' person doesn't believe or understand until they have experienced it first hand.

Congratulation on your 25th anniversary! We had been married perhaps 17 years when we 'took the plunge' (so to speak) and signed up to go to Club Orient. Some thoughts... 1. Orient Beach is 1.25 miles of white sand, most of which is not clothing optional. It is a lovely beach with nice places to eat and some water sports. However, if you want to experience and enjoy being naked, you want to be at the South end of the beach where Club Orient is located. There is a parking area, Club O welcomes (at least historically has welcomed) day visitors, ask about renting chairs under the yellow umbrellas, towels and so on. 2. Check out the Club Orient website. The property has many nice features including the Papagayo restaurant, the small but well stocked general store. The general store has everything you might need and forgot to bring. Also souvenirs. 3. Maybe pertinent to your thoughts, the public nudity at Club O is absolutely G-rated. You will see nothing that you would not see at a church social held lakeside, except that those who are on property are (mostly) naked. The interesting thing is how quickly you will feel 'normal' being naked when everyone else is. Mrs. FL had a variety of concerns the first time we went, brought two swimsuits with her. First day, she put one on. It came off ten minutes later. As she put it, "The swimsuit felt weird and out of place." Translation: as soon as the cultural expectation of being 'covered' is rescinded, it's just more comfortable not putting up with the textile nuisances. 4. The beach is operationally a French beach, meaning it is public. There are a fair number of people who walk to the south end to gawk. It is worse on days when the big cruise ships are in port. They tend to walk at water's edge. Pay them no mind. You two will be no more than a pair of a couple of hundred naked people just enjoying the sun. 5. Sunscreen. More sunscreen. Really. Here is what happened to us. We followed our original plan and went off property one night for dinner. It was wonderful going to Grand Case. Only problem, we had to get dressed, go off property, and then return. By the next day, "sand gravity" has set in, it was much easier deciding "what not to wear" to go to Papagayo. Life was just easier being around people genuinely comfortable in their own skins, figuratively and literally. The downside of all of this is pretty simple. There is chance that you will decide "tried it, not for us". But there is a far greater chance that you will decide that in warm weather, especially at resorts and by the water, clothes have little practical value and are more of a nuisance than anything else. The downside, then, is a reasonably high risk that you will develop a strong preference for clothing-optional destinations and the people who choose them.

We will find out in two months. In October my wife and I are heading to St Martin for our 25th anniversary and will be staying just off Orient Beach. Other than a few visits to a club and a quick walk around Little Beach in Maui, we have not been around public nudity that much. I am curious to see how I react to it as I grew up in a very conservative household. I personally am very open minded, easy going, and non-judgmental, but there are times when my conservative upbringing flashes back at me so it should be interesting to see how things work out.

Man, I want to live in your neighborhood!

Is it a common problem? Yes I think it is. Finding a situation where each partner finds the other couples partner attractive is not an easy task. It is common to have one person being attracted to their potential play partner and the other not at all though. We do find it more common for the women in the lifestyle being more picky based on looks then the men, but that is not always the case. We have found over time that you can't judge attraction just based on pics if you are going the online route! Sometimes the pics you see do not do the people justice and sometimes it is the other way around. Not to mention that sometimes a person has such a great personility that suddenly they become much more attractive. This is one of the reasons we take a no commitment route on first meets with people. It never hurts to just get out there and take a chance meeting new people when there is no pressure for more. We can honestly say this is how we have found very good regular play friends. We know some people that play separately, because of how hard it is to find the four way connection and if it works for them then why not. This is not something we have any interest in ourselves though so it is not an option. Not sure if your pickiness is based on looks alone, but if it is you are going to have a harder time finding that perfect ten couple in the lifestyle where both partners look like Brad and Angelica. Our experience from going to parties, meeting in person and online searching is that most people in the lifestyle are very average looking like ourselves whether they think they are or not. The ones where both are above average looking are only looking for other couples where both partners are also above average. You also need to remember that although you two might think each other is super attractive others are not going to be looking at you with the same eyes. I am not saying you should settle for anything. Just saying that you should be realistic in you search. A lot of people have a hard time doing that, because of the fantasy nature of the game.

Is it possible to both want to go to nudist camps and such because you like being free of cloths, and also because you want your body to be seen? Does the latter violate the non-sexual intent of the environment? It’s like being a life study for an art class. Strictly speaking the artists aren’t supposed to look at the model as a sexual object. And having been in three classes where nude models were used, I can attest that you really don’t think of them in sexual terms. However I can’t not notice that a model has nice or uniquely shaped breasts, or find some interest in how her hips or pelvis are shaped. Its not a sexually arousing thing, but it is simply interesting. But on the other side, every year the school paper does an article on the models, and they all say the same thing: It is not sexual, but I love doing it. But I know from friends and experience that there is that enjoyment at being nude in front of people, being seen, having people look at your body. It is, in some kind of way, a sexual thing. At least it is an affirming, confidence building thing, you feel good about your body and its features. In that I think of it as being sexual, at least in some tiny way. Is it wrong to want to see other people naked, and be seen naked, even if it isn’t directly a sexual kick, but maybe akin to it?

There is a beautiful clothing optional beach here, and having gone there for twenty years or so, we have come to know a lot of the regulars there, many of whom have since had families. So, now there are little kids running around - children that we have known since they were babies, and their their parents philosophy is largely "if my son/ daughter begins to feel uncomfortable, then we will discontinue bringing him/ her". No one that I know goes to a naturist beach with the intention to gawk at and screw everything that walks. Although I know that there are losers who do. There is no place that is 100% safe anymore, sadly enough. Although I do not have children, I believe that good parenting is about being attentive to your child's needs, not smothering them or closing them out from life experiences. If I had kids, I would rather they play at a nude beach (supervised) than playing violent video games where they "kill" things and people. And that is my $0.25 worth.

While I know that there are people out there who will abuse the idea of a nudist resort for their own pleasure as pedophiles (whether it be by visiting the resort itself or by taking it a step beyond with pictures on the internet - btw, pictures of children nude in a nature environment are not considered child porn), but there is another side. I've been to a couple of nudist resorts, one of which allows families with kids. They were very strict there in regards to people's actions. No photography was allowed without permission of both the campgrounds and anyone in the pictures. Anyone showing signs of arousal is asked to leave, etc. I've been to others that don't allow children and personally I'd prefer the latter, just because I'm more comfortable when kids aren't around (whether naked or not). I think it's really up to the parents to raise their kids and decide whether or not this is something that they want to expose them to. I do think that those who are raised with an openness to nudity probably end up being more open about the human body in general and may be less likely to feel the need to explore, etc as they get older. They will already know about the body and not be wondering why it needs to be hidden.

Pna42, I stayed out of the other topic regarding naturalism as I wasn't sure where my feelings lie. I happened to have met quite a few couples that are into naturalism. Some were into swinging, some not, and these were people that we all ended up meeting at a swingers club. All I can say is that they have and exhibit a comfort about them and their bodies, (regardless of size, shape, etc.) that make me wish that I could have the same feeling that they exhibit. I am probably the most protective mother that ever walked the face of this earth, but I can say (NOW) that it would have been great if I didn't feel the need to 'flee' just in case one of my brothers would have seen my body or me theirs. I can say now that had my parents been 'open' enough, maybe I wouldn't be so concerned about a crease here or a mole there. What I have learned is that naturalism is not about sex, it is about being comfortable with you and your body. I would have to think that if kids, even in the hormonal stage would (by example) be able to separate the two, (sex and nudity)if they had been raised in the naturalism way. If it's any consulation, I'ld have probably felt the same is you a couple of years ago.

The camp has been in operation for 35 years without any major problems. To the best of my knowledge and what I have read there have been no civil or criminal actions filed against the camp or its counselors with regard to sexual misconduct of any kind. The only reason this came to light is some politician has decided that it is the government's business to interfere, GOD BLESS ELECTION YEARS. In any case it's just one more instance where big brother thinks it is better for the village to raise your child than you. I'm not saying it's right or wrong to send a child to a nudist camp, but I want to make that choice MYSELF.

If you are considering visiting a resort, call them before hand. Ask every possible question that you and your wife could have. Don't be even a little embarrassed to ask anything. Check out aanr.com, too. there is a lot of information there. Then, if you go, get to know the members. Ask THEM questions, too. Just a word of caution: topics about sex can get you thrown out. Although you could bring up something related to sex and have totally innocent intentions, there really are some nudists that are so uptight.