Do single males belong in swinging?

[Alura 2,766]

We've made it clear in several posts that we do not play with any man unless his wife is also playing with us. We have our reasons, actually most of them are mine, but we both consider them reasonable and our right.

 

So, to single men and cheaters: "Please quit writing to us! The answer you will get will be from my husband and it will be "NO!" I'm glad you enjoyed my "Deep Throat" post but I don't care if it got you harder than you've ever been but you will never experience it unless you marry a real cool lady and then meet us and convince us to like both of you.

 

I got an e-mail from a cheater in our home town today wanting us to help him cheat on his wife in the afternoon or or Saturdays. Damn! Don't these guys ever try to learn something about the people they are writing to before they write?

 

Wife of Alura

[ciscosv 26]

This is an old topic. But I cant help myself. Thanks for pointing this one out to me Julie! Talk about some f'd up stuff that happened to Layla.

 

As I stated ealier, I could not classify a single a guy a swinger. Someone said the single guy is getting "lucky". Was it dougieondamoon that stated the couple is getting lucky? No, my friend. That couple chose you to share their fantasies and feed thier sexual appetite, so thus, you got lucky. Just a pawn in the game.

 

Remember Duece Bigelow Male Giggelow (Gigga what?) I would consider the single man the bottom feeder gettin' busy with the scuba man. What single guy would pass up the opportunity to screw a clean piece? Would it be wrong to say that maybe it's because the assumption outside the "lifestyle" is that swinging couples have sex/oral/play/skip and go naked with others outside our marriage/relationships? My answer is yes, ciscosv does and have to an extent. That does not mean that we will screw any human with genitalia.

 

NO-MEANS-NO! Get it? If you cant get that through your weenie head, then you deserve what you get. Your hand or a hooker.

 

To the couples that find a sincere dude to swing with is great. I absolutely wouldn't knock that because I am positive that there are genuine single guys in the world. Friendship and trust is a building block that couples look for in the MFM. It would be on our end. Not some shmo lurking in a chat room or a personal ad that thinks we are looking to bang everything

 

Back to Layla. There is no excuse for what she went through at all! It sounds to me that the general consensus in ads and postings are that there are alot of pushy and persistant gentlemen out there that turns couples stomachs. Be patient for christ sakes. Do you like Monty Python? My wifes favorite line that holds true about patience is "How about little kiss, boy?"

 

Single guys can blast me all they want. But remember that you are a minority in this community.

That is really not good when the number of single guys here and other ads/websites/chatrooms probably out-number the couples.. Just a hunch.

 

What does a single guy offer that a married couple doesn't? Nada

 

Please keep in mind that I do not disrespect the single males. I hope that this will shed some light to the topic and to let you all know just how "LUCKY" you can get by respecting us.

 

Good luck!

 

Done venting. Just felt bad for Layla and would be pissed if that happened to my wife.

We are looking forward to the SSC July party!

[ciscosv 26]

Oops. I missed 2-1/2 pages of other posts.

 

The only club we have been to SSC here in Michigan. SSC is a couples only off-premise party and that is the main reason why we go there. They do occasionally allow "sposored single males" in the club. I have only seen this once. Their rule for the single males are that they are with that couple ONLY and are absolutely not there to bother anyone else. Thank god!!!!

 

No I'm done

[Regularguy 16]

I will have to disagree with the arrogance associated with the popularly held belief that when a guy has sex with someone else, he is "lucky".

 

This is a stuck up attitude. As an example, I hear women discussing things about being with another guy where they say "I let him touch me".....as if SHE was doing HIM the favor! Give me a break...some people are so full of themselves.....

 

When a man touches a woman, he is doing her a favor, and when a women touches a man, she is doing him a favor. In totality, they are being good lovers by pleasuring each other unselfishly. Just like us guys really enjoy feeling a women squirm from a good oral sex session, women love the feeling of sucking on a small soft dick and feeling it grow from the pleasure she is providing, just like women get off on having a guy come in their mouth which demonstrably proves she gave him pleasure.

 

When I am pleasuring a women, the enjoyment I get is not that she is doing me any favors, it is that she is enjoying being pleasured, and as an unselfish lover, I find enjoyment in hers...

[Tellya Later 15]

I will have to disagree with the arrogance associated with the popularly held belief that when a guy has sex with someone else, he is "lucky".

 

This is a stuck up attitude. As an example, I hear women discussing things about being with another guy where they say "I let him touch me".....as if SHE was doing HIM the favor! Give me a break...some people are so full of themselves.....

 

When a man touches a woman, he is doing her a favor, and when a women touches a man, she is doing him a favor. In totality, they are being good lovers by pleasuring each other unselfishly. Just like us guys really enjoy feeling a women squirm from a good oral sex session, women love the feeling of sucking on a small soft dick and feeling it grow from the pleasure she is providing, just like women get off on having a guy come in their mouth which demonstrably proves she gave him pleasure.

 

When I am pleasuring a women, the enjoyment I get is not that she is doing me any favors, it is that she is enjoying being pleasured, and as an unselfish lover, I find enjoyment in hers...

I would have to agree with Regularguy here. The couple I am meeting I am friends with first, sexual partners second. I've been donw the road of being the surrogate life-like dildo....and it doesn't feel good and that is not something I would do to another person.

 

IMHO, the majority opinion on single males comes from years of a majority of idiots encountering couples. People talk and rumors spread. Therefore the opinion exists BUT it is warranted.

 

And the reason that single male ads outnumber couples is for that very same reason: real single males and married men that won't fix whatever problems they have at home looking for a quick fuck and end up treating the couple like a piece of meat.

[ciscosv 26]

I got to chop you up a bit Regularguy. Wanna hear it - Here it goes:

 

We are talking about swinging here! A couple that has sex with a male, female, couple, couples and so on. This is not relating to the dating world.

 

I will use your (Regularguy) exact phrases:

 

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"I will have to disagree with the arrogance associated with the popularly held beleif that when a guy has sex with someone else, he is "lucky"."

 

Keep in mind that you are getting the honor of having sex or getting head by another man's wife. Since I am married to "my" wife, I have the right to decline any man should I choose. And the same goes for her.

 

Quote

"This is a stuck up attitude."

 

Damn straight! Deal with it. We do.

 

Quote

"As an example, i hear women discussing things about being with another guy where they say "I let him touch me".....as if She was doing HIm the favor!"

 

Here's a hint.... Boys have a penis and girls have a vagina. It is the ladies choice to give it up. Not ours. So believe me when I say that they ARE doing us a huge favor.

 

Quote

"Give me a break...some people are so full of themselves"

 

Why is this a problem for you? Everyone is different and most are set in their ways.

 

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"When a man touches a woman, he is doing her a favor, and when a women touches a man, she is doing him a favor."

 

No favors here. We are handling our sexual needs. Should I say that I am doing myself a favor for masturbating?

 

Quote

"In totality, they are being good lovers by pleasuring each other unselfishly. Just like us guys really enjoy feeling a women squirm from a good oral sex session, women love the feeling of sucking on a small soft dick and feeling it grow from the pleasure she is providing, just like women get off on having a guy come in their mouth which demonstrably proves she gave him pleasure."

 

What does this have to do with the topic?

 

Quote

"When I am pleasuring a women, the enjoyment I get is not that she is doing me any favors, it is that she is enjoying being pleasured, and as an unselfish lover, I find enjoyment in hers..."

 

How do you know she didn't fake it? She IS doing you the favor by getting "lucky".

 

Here's another tidbit. Regularguy posted in STD/Safe Sex on the Topic: Center for Disease Control Aids Info:

 

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"At that point one wears condoms, it sort of defeats the purpose....there is nothing like a women's warm wet pussy gripping our dicks na dmaking it shiny till eventually we fill it with a load of hot come, and women who I have been with or talk to that are good lovers love sucking a guy off till he shoots in their mouth and she revels in his pleasure."

 

Which will bring us back to:

 

Quote

"In totality, they are being good lovers by pleasuring each other unselfishly."

 

Do I hear a contradiction?

 

A single male in the lifestyle may be gentle, kind, trustworthy and a greater lover than I. That still wont prove the facts that single males are a dime a dozen that are competing for the prize.

 

*This is only my (the male in this marriage) opinion and may not be the opinion of other couples.

[Flori_DAMAN 25]

Regularguy seems to have a most refeshing perspective on human sexuality. He makes a study of it without being blinded by the fact that he happens to be single at the moment. I am quite sure that a man of his profound insight would be with a female if he chose to be. He probably has a hard time finding one that will qualify though and I can see why. I respect his apparent character to not just settle because good women are hared to find. My wife dropped dead 8 years ago and it took me years of searching after the grieving period was over to find one. It was well worth the wait. Was I a swinger during that period. Yeah I was. I have seen guys pick anything that breathes and will agree to swing and make a life with them based on this one item. Does that make them more of a swinger than regularguy? Not in my book. John.

[Flori_DAMAN 25]

This topic seems to have a lot of great subjects. Just one little observation here. So many times Tam has been very inappropriately touched or crudely advanced at by GUESS WHAT...guys with S/O's. They are worse than single guys sometimes. Just because they had a conversation with her for a while they seem to think the fact that they are with a female they have a license to grope or make super crude unsolicited comments. Not so. Tam doesn't need to even tell me about it until later, she weighs bout 100 lbs but by the time she toungue lashes them she may as well be a heavyweight boxer the way they retreat. Looking forward to the party....John.

[Regularguy 16]

Ciscov,

 

I took some thought into disagreeing with you by trying not to be disagreeable when I did so.

 

Your post seems to want to engage in some sort of debate with me. Now I could be wrong, but if I am right, I won't waste myself.

 

The paradigm of all men are dogs, all women are doing guys a favor is something you may choose to buy into, but I don't as the level of self esteem, self worth and respect I have for myself and for both genders dictates that I don't need to take such a rabidly subservient, begging attitude towards women. Because of that, I have female companionship at all times, I just now and then swing by myself. When I see guys who weasel, beg and massively suck up, geez, where is their pride....that is probably why they are single...

 

it is my opinion that women do not respect such men. I have learned the fine line of learning to compromise and understand women in relationships and playing it cool when courting women, while refusing to take any @#%$ and remaining a gentlemen AND a strong man who knows when to be assertive or when to be caring and when to be both. (just now the music cuts in to the tune of "I am man, hear me roar" lol..... ; )

 

You may not think swinging has nothing to do with behavioral anthropology and pair bonding behaviors, but it seems rather obvious when you study things in their entirety.

 

michigancouple, sorry to hear about your previous loss....I hope you found a good women, people deserve to be loved, fulfilled and be happy.

[Cyberaura2u 15]

It is a strange thing in the Western society but swinging clubs and most private listings request only a couple ( M/F ) or a single F.

 

In other cultures like the Middle East or Asia people could be shot at for even thinking of swinging, yet men can have multiple wives if a person is Islamic.

 

Such a strange planet we live on.

 

So the question is why are single males on the black list?

[TNT 1,155]

Single males are not on our 'black list', in fact, they are at the top of our list .

 

Some couples enjoy single men, others don't. It's all a matter of what you are looking for in your swinging play.

 

Single men should only look for those couples who want them for playtime and not bother the ones that don't.

 

Teresa

[curiousagain 326]

Single males are not on our 'black list', in fact, they are at the top of our list .

 

Some couples enjoy single men, others don't. It's all a matter of what you are looking for in your swinging play.

 

Single men should only look for those couples who want them for playtime and not bother the ones that don't.

 

Teresa

 

Sound Wisdom

Sound Time management.

[JustAskJulie 2,589]

It's kinda like looking for a job, you don't go out and apply for jobs that you are obviously not qualified for. And a single guy should not go chasing down a couple that is not interested in playing with single guys.

 

Why do some couples not like playing with single guys? Because they just don't. It really doesn't matter why, all that really matters is that they aren't interested, so move on to the next couple that is and stop worrying about why you can't get a job you aren't qualified to do.

[Bama0468 93]

BAMN .. well said Jules ... Single guys are like water, they are everywhere, wife has her pick and she looks for the one she want, it is SOOOO anoying to be part of a Personal site and have in the profile that SINGLE MEN SHE WILL FIND THE ONE OF HER CHOSING, and yet we still get mail from them, and when confronted with it, they say " well I thought I would be of her chosing, sorry it doesn't work that way. We do enjoy having a single guy around on occasion, but we are still seeking that Elusive Bi Female ( sorry had to plug ya .. erm figuratively for now )

[JustAskJulie 2,589]

Quote

it is SOOOO annoying to be part of a Personal site and have in the profile that SINGLE MEN SHE WILL FIND THE ONE OF HER CHOOSING, and yet we still get mail from them, and when confronted with it, they say " well I thought I would be of her choosing,

 

I don't know, I think that by putting it that way "she will have the one of her choosing", you are inviting them ALL to reply in hopes of being the one of her choosing. I think you'd be better off to either not put anything (ie. No problems with single males) or to word it more bluntly - "Single men, she'll find you, please don't contact us".

[Bama0468 93]

Possibly, but the "she will find the one" does that denote that she will be the seeker, not the sought?

[Spoomonkey 418]

I really like Julie's analogy... You wouldn't ask a monogamous couple why they don't invite single men into their bed, would you? Of course not... Most folks assume that they have made a decision to just have sex together - and that is that...

 

But - just because a couple doesn't choose monogamy doesn't mean that they have chosen to have sex with everyone in every possible situation. They are still going to pursue their preferences. For most, that would be other couples... For the very stout and very patient, that would be the "Elusive Bi Fem" (as mentioned above)... For still others, just single men need apply...

 

Us? We are open to a mix - but I will admit, we are very hard on single men. Having played with quite a few, we have become very, very choosy. It is pretty tough to be "that guy." We are definitely looking for a certain type of "vibe" that often just isn't there.

 

It's tough for single men - the competition is pretty extreme - but it is not impossible and there isn't a "black list".

[Cyberaura2u 15]

So then there is more of a preference to have a couple meeting a couple, yet it can be fun to have a setup of MMF but harder to get going finding the right ones.

[adventureUS2 25]

So then there is more of a preference to have a couple meeting a couple, yet it can be fun to have a setup of MMF but harder to get going finding the right ones.

 

Some couples prefer the company of single men. Some like only couples. Some just want bi women and some like to switch it up a bit. What is so hard about setting up mmf is finding a man that is respectful and tastful. There are alot of guys out there who give good single swingers a bad name. Some single men understand swinging and enjoy what it has to offer. Others just want to get laid.

[Guest Mr&Mrs-naughty]

Cyberaura2u said:

.....but swinging clubs and most private listings request only a couple ( M/F ) or a single F.......

 

So the question is why are single males on the black list?

 

Most couples say they both play or neither play. Since there are a lot of women in this lifestyle that consider themselves Bi, or somewhat Bi, it is possible for a couple to invite a single Bi woman into their bed and they Both get to play. Since Most men in this lifestyle are straight (myself included) if there was a single male invited into the room then only she plays.

 

 

I am not of that mindset.

My biggest turn-on/fantasy in this lifestyle is a Mrs naughty sandwich (as we like to call them ).

 

So therefore what we consider "both playing" is when myself and another respectful man (or two) are bringing Mrs naughty as much pleasure as we possibly can.

 

Heaven on Earth.

 

Of course there are other reasons for single men not being allowed in clubs,

 

A lot of them are pushy, disrespectful, and EXPECT every woman in the place to fuck them, after all, she is a swinger.

 

Bad attitude to have.

 

The easiest thing to do is just not to allow them in, since most in the club probably aren't looking for a single guy anyway.

 

Although some clubs have certain nights that they will allow single men in for those who are.

 

So, all the above mentioned reasons are why I think single men are shunned from most clubs. But then again these are just my thoughts and should be taken with a grain of salt.

[EternallySingle 32]

For a single man, swinging is very much like looking for a job. Long hours searching, deciding how much of the truth to tell and when to totally avoid the question, and how to stand out without being seen as pushy or impatient. The difference is that finding a job is not supposed to be fun. Swinging is supposed to be fun.

 

As for profiles, I think most single men shoot themselves and other single men in the foot by trying to make an impression on people that just aren't interested in them. To me, the situation is really simple. Nine out of ten couples, and ninety nine out of one hundred single women absolutely don't want anything to do with single men on swing sites. Why? I don't know and I don't care. I don't bother them, and they don't bother me. The only people I'm interested in talking to are the one couple out of ten and that one single woman out of one hundred (okay, I exaggerated a little on the single woman stats...its more like ninety out of one hundred ) that actually says they want to meet single men. Not the ones that have single men as an interest on some graph or check box, but actually say in their ad that they want to meet single men. Those are the ones that are not happy with simply picking up some Joe Blow in a bar when they get bored on Saturday night but actually want to broaden their circle of swing friends and are looking for single men to be part of that circle. Contacting anyone when you don't meet their criteria is just a waste of everyone's time.

[JnCC 24]

A few random thoughts on the subject...

 

1) Most guys who have what it takes to be successful as "single male swingers" will find FAR more opportunities for sex among single women. If you compose a decent profile, post recent pics, and are realistic about the kinds of women who might find you attractive, you can date 5 nights a week if you so choose. (You could probably date all 7, but your dick, and your credit card, will need to rest sometime)

 

NO, single guys shouldn't think of swinging. They're already swingers. This is basic "game theory" mathematics, as they apply to dating. Why be one of ten, pursuing one, when for the same expenditure of resources, you could be one of ten, pursuing ten?

 

2) If you happen to BE one of those guys, and assuming you're straight, swinging with a couple is a real "one step forward, two steps back" deal for you. Yea, you get laid. But you could be getting laid by a single woman, too. True, there are no expectations of romance, no strings attached. You won't have to send flowers or remember birthdays. But a lot of women in the vanilla world aren't looking for husbands or boyfriends or romance either. They just want somebody to come over a few times a month, then leave before they have to get ready for work in the morning. And whether it's a couple or a single woman, you still have to "date" them...be sexy, charming, and attentive, "playfully fuckable."

 

Bottom line? Again, game theory says "NO, single guys shouldn't think of swinging"...unless they prefer complicated relationships to simple ones, and the taste and smell of another man on the body of the woman they're making love to.

 

3) Some men who claim to be "single by choice" but who actively pursue the swinging lifestyle, are secretly contemptuous of marriage, and of any man who would permit his wife to have sex with another man. They're not in this to "help the husband pleasure his wife," they're in this because they think marriage and committed relationships are for saps, and what better proof is there that a guy is a total, blithering, sap,than to fuck his wife with his full knowledge and approval?

 

The advantage here goes to "Yes," assuming you're the kind of guy who can't enjoy sex unless it somehow asserts dominance over another male, or proves what you've known in your heart ever since that lyin', cheatin' skank tore yours out in the 12th grade. Simply having an affair with a married woman will never provide much pleasure for you, since most women who are having them won't give you the pleasure of telling their husbands about it. Or more specifically, about you, and what you've been doing every afternoon when he thinks she's been at the gym.

 

4) I occasionally attend swing clubs with women I've met on the vanilla sites (there are more of them who are interested in this than you might think) When we see an unescorted male in a club, we can't help but wonder what makes him unacceptable as a swing partner to virtually every woman who knows him personally? I presume that at least half the people he knows are women, that he's invited at least some of them to the club, and that every one of them has declined his offer. I therefore conclude that they're all losers in one or more ways...married, and playing alone...unrealistic sexual expectations...no basic understanding of the dynamics of a swinging relationship...no understanding of what it takes to be in a relationship, period..., etc etc. As one of my lady friends said, "It's like they all have this flashing neon sign on their foreheads, saying, LOSER...LOSER...LOSER..."

 

Using this model, the answer is clearly...NO, single men should NOT think of swinging. They should think of getting a LIFE! When they're able to find, somewhere among the 25 million-or-so single women in this country, ONE who thinks they're worthy of attending a swing club with, they'll find a LOT more acceptance among the swinging community. Until then, the question to be answered isn't "should single men even think of swinging?"...it should be "Why should anybody care?"

 

I guess there is no "right" answer to your question. It all depends on who you are, what your options are, and why you want to do this.

[SC_GAcouple 15]

JnCC said:

Using this model, the answer is clearly...NO, single men should NOT think of swinging. They should think of getting a LIFE! When they're able to find, somewhere among the 25 million-or-so single women in this country, ONE who thinks they're worthy of attending a swing club with, they'll find a LOT more acceptance among the swinging community. Until then, the question to be answered isn't "should single men even think of swinging?"...it should be "Why should anybody care?"

 

I find this answer quite surprising. Why is this status applied to men and not women? Why are the women not considered losers if THEY cannot find a man to take to the swing club? A big fantasy of many men is to see their wife/gf with another woman, but I think just as many fantasize about watching their wife/gf with another man. What better way to find an eligible man then to meet up with them on a site for this, or a club for swinging! JMO...

[Spoomonkey 418]

SC_GAcouple said:

I find this answer quite surprising.

 

Well - his is just one opinion...

 

And certainly not one that has much merit.

 

It can be difficult to find a good single, but you are far more likely to find one with an understanding of the lifestyle on a site such as this or in a swing club. They will be few and far between - and there will certainly be some single men who couldn't get a hand job in a whore house if they had hundred dollar bills stapled to their dick - but having "been there, done that" I can say that there really are some great single men out there - respectful gentlemen who are great finds for couples and genuine assets to the lifestyle.

[JnCC 24]

SC_GAcouple said:

Why is this status applied to men and not women?

Because they're not paying out the ass to get into a club where men outnumber them by a factor of 10 or more, and because unlike the single guys, most of them will get laid.

 

 

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Why are the women not considered losers if THEY cannot find a man to take to the swing club?

Hmmm...I guess because the single women I've met at the clubs and online tend to run a little older, larger, and "toadier" than the women I meet on the vanilla sites. That's just a fact of life...their life...and I try not to judge a persons worth as a human being based on physical characteristics alone.

 

I'm not as forgiving of those who are ill-mannered or who lack the basic social graces, although maybe I should be. Social skills are largely an inherited trait...you either have them, or you don't. I'm sure they're not all dickheads, but if a guy has neither the time, talent, or ambition to properly seduce a woman, I'm not about to let him just "waltz up" and fuck mine.

 

 

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A big fantasy of many men is to see their wife/gf with another woman, but I think just as many fantasize about watching their wife/gf with another man.

"Many men fantasize about watching their wife/gf with another man?" Yea, some. But most men have a number of fantasies in addition to that one, and that's where the argument for single, straight male "swingers" falls on it's face. There's only one thing you can do with them. If that's your thing, great. There's lots to choose from. But if you have more than one fantasy, then having "just" a guy is kind of like having a car that "just" makes right turns and "just" goes one speed.

 

I can only relate this to my own limited experiences in clubs and on websites. We used to go to a club in Indianapolis (LaPlase) that on Saturday nights allowed single males on the first floor, and couples only on the second floor. In all the times we went there...maybe 25 in all...I don't think we EVER saw another couple on the first floor on Saturday night, even when the upstairs was packed. Maybe Hoosiers don't have the same fantasies about "their wives with other men" that all these other guys your talking about do.

 

Friday nights anybody could go on either floor..and the place was basically empty. Nobody went in the hot tub, nobody dressed down after midnight. Dead. The guys were standing around, alone and becoming borderline obnoxious to the couples, while TGIF'S had a positively jumpin' Friday night singles crowd less than 2 blocks away...

 

We did see about 6 or 8 guys standing around in a circle one night. They were jerking off while they waited to take their turn fucking a humongous fat, pale-skinned woman. It was soooo weird to see...she was much larger than any of them, and her skin kind of "glowed" under the black light. It reminded me of one of those old "bug movies" from science class, where all the worker termites are in the royal chamber, servicing their queen.

 

Oh well, if you're only going to have sex 8 times a year, it might as well be all on the same night. Totally grossed us both out, though.

 

 

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What better way to find an eligible man then to meet up with them on a site for this, or a club for swinging!

That depends on what you consider "eligible" and on how fast you need him. If you're reasonably attractive, and all you want is a guy who will fuck you and NOT call you in the morning, you can find one just about anyplace. Grocery stores, airport hotels (after an international flight arrives, follow the crew shuttle to the layover hotel, wait about 30 minutes, then go to the hotel bar), health clubs, walking trails, civic activities, wherever.

 

If you need one "right now" the clubs are probably your best bet. Some of the sacrifices you make in quality you make up for in convenience. (the same obviously holds true for guys seeking women in clubs) Who knows? You might get lucky, and have one of those 8 guys I was talking about all to yourself!

 

Finding a quality single person isn't much different than finding a good used car. Be realistic about what you can "afford." Start looking long before you think you'll actually need it. Take your time...time spent now pays dividends in quality later. Avoid dealers (and clubs) if possible. Don't do business with anybody who won't give you their phone number or home address. Inspect it in the daylight. And take it on a few short test-drives before you take it on the highway.

 

Spoomonkey - Are you SURE that was "just" a banana?

[Spoomonkey 418]

Well - I think the confusion that our once-labeled "swinger laureate" seems to be having is the difference between "getting laid" and swinging. Certainly, if I wanted to get laid nightly by a different woman, a singles bar would definitely be the place to go. Women there are far easier than a married swinger...

 

But - since his experience at clubs is admittedly limited, I would like to point out that not all clubs are so segregated or anti-male as the one that he describes. Ours allows single men on Friday nights and limits them on Saturday. A few of the men stand zero chance at much of anything - personality, looks, basic biology going against them. But some are quite popular with couples that they have built a relationship with.

 

Nor are they all filled with "toadie" women. The first single woman that we played with was a cute little thing who approached us (me, actually - a fact that still make me pretty happy ).

 

Personally, we have stopped playing with single men at the club, simply because we don't feel the environment gives us a very good chance to evaluate them.

 

However, if you do have a fantasy about swinging (group sex) and not just a hankering to "get laid" then a swing club or a swing site is a rather logical place to go - "limited experience" not withstanding...

[curiousagain 326]

JNCC, That club sounds like a swingers version of Hell.

 

I don't think I would frequent that club.

 

I guess birds of a feather flock together though.

 

25 times? You must have been enjoying something.

 

To each his own.

[TNT 1,155]

JnCC...for you to represent yourself as a 'single male' you sure do lobby against single men in the swinging lifestyle more than a married man/couple who are not into singles. I just don't understand you.

 

Getting back to the original question...Should single men even think of swinging?

 

Yes, if they are looking for more than just a quick fuck...that they will probably find easier at a normal night club/bar.

 

If a single man has the right kind of attitude, enjoys the prospect of group sex, enjoys spending time with people of a like mind, enjoys being the third in a play session, and respects and understands couples and their relationship in that he knows not to bother those who do not want a single man and only look for those who do...definitely he should consider swinging.

 

As far as the 'black list of single men'...unfortunately there are those who do not possess the above traits and they are the ones that give all the good ones a bad rep...they are the ones that do not need to consider swinging at all.

 

Teresa

[EternallySingle 32]

In JnCC's defense...

 

Most single men who WANT to be involved in swinging have no clue as to what swinging is. They found a link to a swing site either while surfing porn sites or learned swinging existed on HBO or while signing up on Adult Friend Finder or some similar site. Bottom line, they don't have a clue.

 

THOSE are the guys that would be better off going to the local nightclub every night its open. Or better yet, going to the local cappuccinno shop and practicing how to flirt with women. I did the latter last week and found myself in bed with a woman the next morning. I wasn't looking to get laid that day (I had just had a date with another woman), but she decided she was going to get laid that night and I was there. What did I do? I can't tell you. I know I had the owner, her husband, and her father laughing most of the night. I know that before I drove my date home she shot pop out of her nose and said to stop making her laugh. I know that I made several jokes about stealing the owner of the coffee shop away from her husband so I could have fresh coffee every morning. And this woman I never saw before said "Is that all you want from her?" I still don't know what I said after that, but it was a good night.

 

And much easier and cheaper than could ever happen at a swing club or on a swing site. BUT I don't know if she's into group sex or 3somes or even if I'll ever see her again. One night stand. No effort, just being myself.

 

When I had the chance to go to swing clubs (meaning no three month interview process, $100 + admission feess, five to eight hour drives, and 18 month waiting lists) I was rather successful, because I had fun, even if it was just talking about some story i was writing. Three of those story ideas ended up being Sandra Bullock movies (hmmm...maybe thats why they spent so much time talking to me each time I went there?) but I just talked, told funny stories, beat people at darts, and lost at pool. And I had fun just doing that. A third of the time, I had sex with someone other than the two women I came with. Everytime, I had sex with one of them, if not both

 

But that was in Washington. Different mindset among the people there. They were used to strangers. Most patrons of swing clubs aren't used to strangers, so single men, who are probably known by noone, get looked at from a distance and brushed off when they approach (if they are even allowed to). In that environment, you have to know if you really want to join a couple or if you just want to get laid.

 

You can get laid buying a cup of coffee

[JnCC 24]

JnCC...for you to represent yourself as a 'single male' you sure do lobby against single men in the swinging lifestyle more than a married man/couple who are not into singles.

The thing is, I'm not "lobbying." A lobbyist is one who tries to change public opinion. I wasn't trying to change your opinion, I was only trying to express mine.

 

Personally, I wish EVERY couple in the Lifestyle were into single guys...lots and lots of single guys! I doubt I'd be out there partying with them every night, but it would be nice to have some options. Of course, we all know that's never gonna happen...

 

It seems that in swinging, like everything else, there's a "pecking order." Attractive, physically fit, long-term married couples (and ideally, empty-nesters) are almost always the most popular. "Average" couples, and those under 25 or over 50, are a little further down the list, followed by couples of any age who are merely dating or who don't have much history together. Single males, even those who are polite, well-groomed, and all that other yadda-yadda bullshit, are still at the bottom of that list. The smart ones seem to understand that and move on with their vanilla lives, knowing that if a situation involving a particular couple, or a fantasy involving a female friend and another person comes along, their experience in the lifestyle will be an asset to them. The rest of them prowl swinger websites and lurk in the basements of swing clubs, waiting for the return of the Termite Lady.

 

I know there are couples who swing with single men. (my neighbor just paid $47,000 for a Saab convertible, so nothing surprises me anymore) But when you look at how many of them there are, compared to how many guys are out there, it just seem's like a losing proposition for the guys all the way around.

[TNT 1,155]

JnCC said:

The thing is, I'm not "lobbying." A lobbyist is one who tries to change public opinion. I wasn't trying to change your opinion, I was only trying to express mine.

 

Hmmm, okay...but, why the heck does a your posts seem to have such a negative undertone where single men are concerned? It sure does seem to me that you point out all the bad things about single men and why they shouldn't swing without ever pointing out any of the good things and there are numerous good reasons and good men out there.

 

Teresa

[CLITFRIEND 15]

JnCC said:

The thing is, I'm not "lobbying." A lobbyist is one who tries to change public opinion. I wasn't trying to change your opinion, I was only trying to express mine.

 

Personally, I wish EVERY couple in the Lifestyle were into single guys...lots and lots of single guys! I doubt I'd be out there partying with them every night, but it would be nice to have some options. Of course, we all know that's never gonna happen...

 

It seems that in swinging, like everything else, there's a "pecking order." Attractive, physically fit, long-term married couples (and ideally, empty-nesters) are almost always the most popular. "Average" couples, and those under 25 or over 50, are a little further down the list, followed by couples of any age who are merely dating or who don't have much history together. Single males, even those who are polite, well-groomed, and all that other yadda-yadda bullshit, are still at the bottom of that list. The smart ones seem to understand that and move on with their vanilla lives, knowing that if a situation involving a particular couple, or a fantasy involving a female friend and another person comes along, their experience in the lifestyle will be an asset to them. The rest of them prowl swinger websites and lurk in the basements of swing clubs, waiting for the return of the Termite Lady.

 

I know there are couples who swing with single men. (my neighbor just paid $47,000 for a Saab convertible, so nothing surprises me anymore) But when you look at how many of them there are, compared to how many guys are out there, it just seem's like a losing proposition for the guys all the way around.

 

JnCC--I have to tell you I am quite baffled here. I either do not get what you are trying to say--Or I am just not understanding what you are trying to say here---I mean are you angry that couples generally don't swing with single men? Or are you angry because there are not enough couples going around for the men to swing with?

 

Is it horrifying to you that single ladies and couples who plays with single males prefer the guys to be well mannered, well groom and yadda yadda???

 

I really dont think it is the single guys themselves that are at the bottom of the list---I think it is the cheating single guys and YES even the chating single gals who are on the bottom of the list---and right in that area of cheaters--there are also the dramatizers who certainly make the feet of the totem pole----this post you put on here--sounds like dramatizations.

 

Look---ok--so I am not involved with sexual activities--beyond self gratification every single night. However it is not because I am not well groomed, or yadda yadda--it is because I am single--and because I am single--I unfortunately do not have a S/o to enjoy every night. However--that does not mean that I am totally inactive--because there are couples and single females out there who I have befriended, and they have befriended me, and are you ready for this next part??? That befriendment takes place both in and out of bedrooms!!!!!! You know why? Because I want to commend their friendship with me by staying well groomed, and well manner and yadda, yadda. And they do the same with me as well!

 

So all of you beautiful ladies and wonderful, friendly couples, can I as a single male yadda yadda with you????

[Cyberaura2u 15]

Hmmm, okay...but, why the heck does a your posts seem to have such a negative undertone where single men are concerned? It sure does seem to me that you point out all the bad things about single men and why they shouldn't swing without ever pointing out any of the good things and there are numerous good reasons and good men out there.

 

Teresa

 

I agree with Ted and Teressa, Men are not like merchandise on a shelf where a label gets put on them and they are all the same, I will not artificially limit my experiences and knowledge to that level, the same thing goes for women, they are not items either.

[JnCC 24]

TNT said:

Hmmm, okay...but, why the heck does a your posts seem to have such a negative undertone where single men are concerned?

 

Well, my posts have a "negative undertone" because that's what I've observed, and to a lesser extent experienced, in the Lifestyle.

 

This is a forum. We are, or at least we ought to be, posting opinions based on our personal experiences and observations. As long as we maintain a degree of candor and honesty in how we respond to the questions posed, there are no "right" or "wrong" answers, and no "good" or "bad" people, only differing vantage points. You probably remember the joke about the 2 blind men standing at opposite ends of the elephant, and how different their perception of elephants was?

 

It's like that when the "elephant" in question isn't really an elephant, but a topic posted on a forum such as this. In this case, the topic was whether single males are likely to find much success in the Lifestyle. Your perception of the beast is influenced almost entirely by where you're standing, as is mine. I've stood on your end of the beast. Has Mr."T" stood on mine?

 

According to your profile, you're an attractive, 30-ish couple who occasionally entertains single males. I don't think it would it be unfair to suggest that if you chose to, you could be entertaining attractive, 30-ish single males every night, without repeating a face for many, many months. When you see and know only the "winners," it's easy to forget there are "losers" as well.

 

I've spoken to many otherwise "eligible" single guys, who have told me that if they get 2-3 hits per year from an ad on a swingers website, they consider their membership successful. What they don't like to discuss is how many of those responses come from couples with bi-males, ones who want to stage a G/B scenario, or couples who simply don't meet their age or aesthetic preferences.

 

I've personally known several women and couples who state that they have no problem finding men "half their age" on swingers websites. Then there's the Termite Lady...all too close to the "wrong" end of the elephant for my tastes, but all of whom would probably contend that "single men can find success in the lifestyle."

 

There are several single males who post regularly to these boards. Some will state that they've "met a lot of couples" and "made a lot of friends since becoming a swinger," but who will go on to ask a question or relate a personal experience that makes me inclined to believe they're full of piss and wind and little else. The ones who I feel are most credible as experienced swingers are the ones who state that they're either not actively pursuing couples, or who expend very little effort in doing so.

 

None of this is meant to dismiss the validity of your experience in this area. It's really the same elephant...

 

 

Quote

It sure does seem to me that you point out all the bad things about single men and why they shouldn't swing without ever pointing out any of the good things...

 

But darlin' why should I do that, when you're doing such a good job of it?

 

I'm only talking about the end of the elephant I know something about...

[TNT 1,155]

JnCC said:

But darlin' why should I do that, when you're doing such a good job of it?

 

I'm only talking about the end of the elephant I know something about...

 

Well thank you, I'm proud to be an advocate for single men as I think the majority of them are great.

 

However I do feel sad for you...it's such a sad thing to be able to only see and comment on one point of view. At least I point out the good and the bad as I do know something about both.

 

Teresa

[JnCC 24]

I do feel sad for you...it's such a sad thing to be able to only see and comment on one point of view. At least I point out the good and the bad as I do know something about both.

Please, please! Don't feel sad for moi! Any "sadness" that comes with being a "single male swinger" attaches mainly to the word "swinger" and not to the words "single male." Most guys I know who are much beyond 40 or who are through raising kids actually prefer being single and intend to stay that way, even if it means leaving their mainstream, swinging days behind them. Even when a couple has agreed to suspend the part about "foresaking all others," being in a committed relationship brings a lot of responsibility, obligation, and need for compromise. I could probably accomodate two of those, but not all three.

 

Besides, being single IS like being a swinger most of the time. We're always on the lookout for new playmates. We flirt with them, court them, and sometimes, seduce them. Occasionally, we'll find one who's just so damn much fun in bed that we'll we'll spend an entire weekend there with them, fucking each others brains out. And the best part of all this? We're allowed to kiss, share secrets, send flowers, and call each other at work.

 

It's better than sending out dozens of letters to couples, only to be met by a negative or no response. And it sure beats the hell out of patiently waiting our turn at "Termite Lady" or anybody else, for that matter.

 

When I said that most single guys should give up on trying to become swingers, I wasn't trying to paint some "doom and gloom" picture of them, or to elicit sympathy for them or for myself. The biggest reasons that most single males aren't successful in the Lifestyle have to do with factors that lie within their control. If a guy won't devote a few hours a week to diet and exercise, a few hours to learning what is expected of single males (and when to leave couples alone), a few hours to learning how to dance, converse on subjects other than sex, and perhaps to finding a female partner of his own...then he's pretty well torpedoed whatever chance he had to make an impression on a couple. In any case, it's their problem...not ours.

 

Swinging as a single male ain't no dress rehearsal, it's the real deal. If a guy steps into the ring physically, mentally, and emotionally prepared, the payoffs are occasionally pretty good. "Dine 'n dash" sex, without any obligation to buy anybody's dinner or breakfast, or having to share the bathroom the next morning. And you rarely get a "why haven't you called?" call the following week.

 

Not bad...not bad at all...

[CLITFRIEND 15]

Oh my gosh---I am not even quite sure how to respond to that one. Hey Eternally single--got any idea?

[Goodguyvegas71 15]

Seems to me that some single guys get the wrong idea about this. They here some nasty comments from some couples, and think the worse ! I myself have met plenty of couples that enjoy the company of the single man!

 

Like other guys I do of course strike out from time to time, but hey ya know what...it is ok. Yes the sun will rise again, the rooster will crow, etc. One of the biggest lessons I have had to learn and am still learning is not to go with expectations. Think about it thins way; would you go food shopping on an empty stomach? If you do you will look at everything and spend too much money. Yes of course when one goes to the club they are thinking of "Sex". The problems is I have seen is some other guys go there too horny. Again think of the supermarket.

 

So what I am saying here is that there are plenty of couples who are looking for us single guys. Don't let the other couples who have negative things to say ruin your fun at the swingers market!

[EternallySingle 32]

Never go to the supermarket hungry. I like that. Sort of like what I told my best friend last week. Don't ask for a date's life history when you're horny. She didn't listen. Now she's asking me to come over every night so the guy will think she's back together with me. LOL. So much for meeting a nice church going God fearing man.

 

ANYWAY...

 

I think the biggest mistake is not only making mistakes or having high expectations, but taking yourself too seriously. I would LOVE to swing with two or three couples every month. I would LOVE to have sex with three or for bisexual women involved in swinging every week. I would REALLY LOVE it if they played together and let me join in when I want. I know if I look hard enough I could probably find those situations in a few months.

 

But guess what? That's a LOT of work. Its a lot of flirting with women you know is bisexual and that you hope will allow you to join them. Its a lot of talking to couples and trying to get them to trust you. Its a lot of preparation on your part to make your place (yes, if you are going to play that much, you'll have to do it at your place, not theirs) presentable at all times. And its a lot of work to keep yourself in shape and keep your stress level down so you CAN perform when wanted. If you think about it, it doesn't leave a lot of time for going to work, hanging out with your friends, and pursuing the possible relationship with that cute girl you talk to every day at lunch.