What do single MEN have to offer?

[jcbicouple 24]

Originally posted by davephx

A single male in swinging is just like someone coming to a pot luck without bringing a dish.

 

Yes they may be tolerated if there is enough food to go around, but they are not respecting the fact it is a pot luck dinner.

 

Hoping that this quote wasn't meant to be taken this way, found it to be VERY offensive.....Read this as the females are something you bring along for the others to share in, and if you aren't bringing one to share, then you and she aren't welcome? Not on your life! Women are not a "dish" served up by the male.

[davephx 32]

A man brings his women as a "dish" just as the women brings her man as "desert"?

 

The point is you don't come to a swing group without a partner. That isn't swinging it's "toleration" usually because singlemen are charged a high fee and makes money for the club.

 

But in Phoenix at least, nights where single men are allowed are the nights most couples avoid unless they are exhibitionists that like to be watched. Yes there are maybe 5% of couples that enjoy excess single male energy but I think 95% do not.

[BigSmoke 15]

Quote

Originally posted by davephx:

The history of the word "swinging" is that it was previously called wife swapping but "wife swappers" needed an easier name to describe the activity.

Quote

The terms “swinging” and “the swinging lifestyle” were coined by a minister during the last century in order to label individuals who chose to have sex with other individuals to whom they were not married. The minister was trying compare these consenting adults to monkeys, swinging from bed to bed as a monkey might swing from tree to tree. Little did he know that soon the term would be reclaimed by the swingers themselves!

Gee, I happen to be a consenting adult and I have sex with someone I'm not married to. (Let's not forget that premarital sex has long been forbidden or frowned upon by religious groups.) As I understand it, the term 'wife swapper' was becoming more and more offensive to the females as the term was seen as derogatory and implied possession of a wife by her husband, similar to the potluck analogy.

 

Quote

Interesting quote:

In the 1940’s private groups of religious couples would sometimes decide that since they didn’t believe in divorce they would instead swing to gain their sexual pleasures.

Hmmmmmm..... so instead of getting a divorce they would sleep with other people? I wonder if it was done as a couple or separately?

 

Quote

Originally posted by davephx:

These men were wealthy enough to move their wives close to base, and the fact that their fatality rate was the highest of any branch of service led to an unusual social milieu in which non-monogamy between these pilots' wives and other pilots became acceptable.

I've read this a few times and something never seemed right about it to me... and I think I've finally figured out why. If a lot of the pilots were dead (or perhaps overseas), who were the wifes swinging with? Seems to me that the argument was that unless you were a couple you couldn't be a swinger?

 

[davephx 32]

And from the NASCA website:

Though single men and women are involved, it is primarily an activity of couples.

 

Yes they are allowed on certain nights so the clubs can make a lot of money. BTW why are all NASCA conventions couples only if your trying to argue they consider single men swingers? Yes, they are "tolerated" or "involved" so clubs can make money off of them.

[imsnowman 32]

I'll say one thing for Dave. He's consistent. He's been consistently sexist and antisingle male (but not female since they can go help in the kitchen) since long before the Internet as you see it. Way back when Usegroups were the thing. Back then he used to stir up trouble in the Poly groups. You think he's bad here you should have seen him then.

[davephx 32]

I have been around swinging for about 15 years, hosted the Phoenix Couples Group with over 300 participants and participated in zillions of discussions back to the days when newsgroups were popular.

 

It seems like its always the guys who defend single males in swinging that protest the loudest while the vast majortiy of couples want nothing to do with single males. There are many good reasons for this as the previously referenced article of mine points out. All my points are based on what couples have said over the years. It is clear that the vast majority of couples aren't interested in single males yet they insist on forcing themselves on couples.

 

In polyamory there is not any male/female issue. Swinging is different by long tradition, origin and the desires of most couples.

[imsnowman 32]

Originally posted by davephx

It seems like its always the guys who defend single males in swinging that protest the loudest while the vast majortiy of couples want nothing to do with single males. There are many good reasons for this as the previously referenced article of mine points out. All my points are based on what couples have said over the years. It is clear that the vast majority of couples aren't interested in single males yet they insist on forcing themselves on couples.

Actually Dave, this is a couple speaking. We just don't like sexism period on either gender. Making broad generalizations may bias new people who would otherwise have enjoyable experiences. Plus, its simply wrong. Its no different than the generalizations "normal" people make about swingers. Just a different target.

[yawanna 17]

iamsnowman..your posts have only been antagonistic and not speaking to the discussion at hand. I personally have been offended by your trying to take the issue to a personal level, when it's an intellectual discourse/topic.

 

This is a discussion board about swinging....everyone's opinion is welcome, right? when those opinions further a discussion and don't become personal. If you have issues..start your own thread

[jcbicouple 24]

Originally posted by imsnowman

We just don't like sexism period on either gender. Making broad generalizations may bias new people who would otherwise have enjoyable experiences. Plus, its simply wrong. Its no different than the generalizations "normal" people make about swingers. Just a different target.

 

We agree! Saying that single females can be swingers, while single males can not, is just plain sexist. I'm sure that if we were to start a thread asking why women should be paid the same as men, because men bring more to the table in the workplace, we'd get killed. (btw: We are both professionals with our own careers so "no" we don't agree with that; just making a point) Sexist is sexist, regardless of the setting.

 

And, imsnowman, you are also correct that it turns new people off: We have been doing this for 6 years and the reason we didn't go to any of the clubs is because we kept hearing about the biased and sexist attitudes of many who attend. We recently started attending one and have found that there are more open minded, friendly people there than there are closed minded, biased ones, but it doesn't change the fact that they are the reason we steered clear and set our plans far away from them for 6 years. We're glad there are people like you around, and posting your opinions.

[imsnowman 32]

Originally posted by yawanna

iamsnowman..

When you get "upset' with someone you seem to like to misspell their nicknames. Previous threads that I'm sure you recall.

 

 

your posts have only been antagonistic and not speaking to the discussion at hand. I personally have been offended by your trying to take the issue to a personal level, when it's an intellectual discourse/topic. ..

Actually, more then a couple of folks have agreed with my posts. And I don't consider the statements that have been made slamming swingle males to be "intellectual".

 

This is a discussion board about swinging...everyone's opinion is welcome, right? when those opinions further a discussion and don't become personal. If you have issues..start your own thread

This thread had plenty of issues in it. Several other posters felt that it was very antagnostic toward a particular generalized group of people. So much so that one thought you must have a very personal axe to grind. My points other than the ones about Dave have been directed at the prejudices stated not the individual stating them.

 

The most recent post by "jcbicouple" states my case in another way.

[yawanna 17]

My apologies for misspelling your nickname imsnowman.

 

I started this thread to try to get an overview of how single men are perceived in swinging. I have my own observations and thoughts and it seems that not too much is different from what I thought earlier.

 

Bottom line, there are 'rules' of swinging that can be ignored. All the literature, a couple of links that I have shared here, state that swinging is mostly couples, with occasional participation of singles.

 

I very much didn't want to be part of an exclusionary club, I'm not that type of person. But it's hard to be exclusionary when the club has no hard and fast rules. So no matter how much we talk, the show will go on

 

Swinging is basically self defined. I'm off to the other thread now.

[awider2000 15]

To be honest to say that there are all these girls lined up and i dont even have to try ? Obviously you have no idea what your talking about. It is easier to get laid with non swinging single girls than couples. I can in all HONESTY tell you that.

 

I am not sure what your gripe is almost sounds like you had a bad experience or your reasoning as to why you dont want to add a guy to your sex life (I'm talking to the original poster here). In any case why do ya gotta bash male single swingers?

[yawanna 17]

I don't recall posting that single men have women lined up.....

 

My intent was to discuss, not bash. Unfortunately, as there are so many single men wanting to participate, y'all have become (or maybe always were?) a particular 'area' of discussion, being such a regular presence on swinger sites (couples).

 

Maybe you can present 'the other side', the less stereotypical one, of a single male participating in sexual activities with couples? We know they are out there - we've met with a few

 

I agree it isn't fair or right to lump one group together as being like minded, or all alike, based on one commonality. You have the same opportunity as other posters to present yourself to the board, participate, and let everyone get to know you....as an individual.

 

It's how many of us, including ourselves, became involved

[awider2000 15]

from original post

 

What, if anything other than a 3rd participant, do single MEN offer or bring to swinging that enhances or furthers swinging in general?

 

And I mean overall..not those few that a couple find enhancing and a 'good guy'.

 

I have always had, and continue to, have doubts as to their intentions and stated reasons for participating, those reasons being a parroting back of what couples say swinging is for them and what they achieve from it.

 

 

Ok if you didn't want to bash male swingers then I guess you shouldn't start out with a statement like this. As for the rest of your original post it smacks of bias as far as wtf are you single guys doing here any way? I mean hey c'mon now, I didn't see any rule that says a single guy can't swing. Also you seem to infer that single females offer much more?

 

In your reply to my post it seems you have changed your stance some bravo to you but I think you are in denial about what you started here at least in part.

 

I am not some wacko and i do date outside the swinging venue mostly because it is good to keep all your options open. I do meet with a couple on and off and we enjoy each others company we keep it friends and i have no intention of moving in on there relationship.We have a great time and i want to keep it at that.

 

I will tell you about another couple that I have had experience with. This should set you back and make you rethink. This couple I met and began to become"friends" with (my first couple ever) so i asked a lot of questions. Like is your relationship solid/are you SURE you want to do this/Did you discuss this at length etc. etc.

 

Ok so I did all this only to find out i was being lied to and to top it off the FEMALE is doing all the talking AND she wants to have "feelings" toward me. (Anyone see something wrong here?). This whole situation became a major mess.

 

So you see I get a little aggravated when I see a post like this insinuating that guys are trying to get between couples? To take a big paint brush and lay it on single male swingers like that is just not right. Obviously I can only speak from my limited experience as others have on this post.

In the end all that can be said is in Swinging as in everything else in life, you're gonna find all kinds and unfortunately that means there are bad people. BUT fortunately there are good ones too.

 

Your Original Statement/question really lays a bad rap on guys all i can say is if you think this is for couples/females only and that's what you like that's all good . But please don't go bashing around the single guy there seems to be enough interest out there from couples and single females to keep us around.

[yawanna 17]

Have you missed all the posts about the couples complaining about being barraged by single guys? The posts about single guys not reading ads saying NO single guys....all the posts and threads about single guys coming between relationships.

 

I'm not alone in this thinking and I'm sorry if you feel you are being bashed. Sadly, you are part of a larger group that very often are like gnats on a horse. That's just the way it is. Don't take it out on me....I'm not alone in my thoughts and experiences. I wouldn't make the presumption that single guys are around only because some couples and single women want them. That can't possibly account for the inordinate numbers of single men posting ads, answering ads (even if they aren't contenders), and complaining on swinger sites about how they can't get their foot in the door.

 

Sorry.

 

You also posted this on another thread about single guys.....

 

. I read all this stuff about single males and it just depresses me to bad there are a few flakes to mess it up for the rest of us.

[awider2000 15]

I have read some of the other post and i understand your not alone but im picking on you because well you started it LOL! I am sorry I'm not bitter just throwing in my 2 cents please don't take offense.

 

Any way back to your last comment. I understand that you get barraged with a ton of e-mail and if it was me im sure i would feel the same way.

However my point is this I dont answer to adds that indicate they are not interested in males. SLS does not exclude males from contacting anyone no matter what there preference. Swapper net if you so choose to do so has an option that you can block all e-mail from single guy's.

 

I also have to tell you the couple that I play with right now approached me and so far its been great!! So being the newbie that I am so far I think its best to let couples contact me though that probably will not stop me from reaching out to them if they indicate that there interested in single males on there add.

 

As far as inordinate numbers of guys I am sorry about that but i think you should be asking the question why not more females? This to me seems a better solution.

 

P.S. No insult meant ok, just voicing my viewpoint

[davephx 32]

Originally posted by imsnowman

Now and forever all singles regardless of gender who want to play with couples must call themselves SWINGLES....

 

Swingles is a great idea. Start a SWINGLES group, that way you won't have to bother swingers which by tradition has always been couples.

 

But I know from experience you wil wind up with a 99% single mens group since most single women are not comfortable going to such a group or swing club unless they have a partner to go with...i.e. they are a couple.

 

In swinging there is a HUGE oversupply of nice single men and all most no demand. There are many very sound reasons why most couples prefer to be with other couples. You disliking the facts of life does not change them.

[davephx 32]

Originally posted by awider2000

as far as inordinate numbers of guys I am sorry about that but i think you should be asking the question why not more females ?????? this to me seems a better solution

 

That is an easy question to answer. Most single women are not willing to go into what might be a sexual situation such as clubs without a trustedmale companion to go with them that usually they are in a relationship with. That is why there are so few single females.

 

I suggest you go out and find single women and bring them with you.. then you are a couple and no problem.

[yawanna 17]

Thanks and no offense taken

 

as far as inordinate numbers of guys I am sorry about that but i think you should be asking the question why not more females ?????? this to me seems a better solution

 

I gotta tell ya...... swinging is mostly couples. That's just reality.

 

It's not about 'swingers' recruiting more single women to accommodate the numbers of single men wanting to be involved.

 

Maybe someone may feel so inclined as to start a single swinger club. Couples already have their venues

[awider2000 15]

I have to agree that is reality so is the fact there are a zillion guys. But I pose the question do single swinging men swing with who?

 

I would like to point out that I am but one single guy and I can only account for my self. I guess that's why I object to being lumped in. Also there are couples who only like to add males only to there sexual venue, and i suspect this has been long standing.

 

I would simply like to close this way i do understand your problem with this but here again as you said you cant change the facts the single males are here. Complain all you want, it's you're right. I can only answer for myself.

[phoenix 15]

Not sure if this has been said before, but I think the thing single guy's like myself add is potential for new swinging couples. My desires can't be doused by one woman, So there ya have it. My opinion. Thank you.