Can spouses who have cheated ever be trusted with Swinging again?

[incommunicado 228]

About four years ago, due to some scary problems with money and career (O.K., my failed career), my wife started having affairs. In a nutshell, there were probably at 3 men she had sex with on at least a few occasions. She also exchanged a lot of racy to raunchy e-mails with men we both knew, and sent nude pictures of herself to at least one that I discovered. (Anyone who wants to read all about it can run a search on my user name as the threads are still there.)

 

In a nutshell, we were in a very bad situation at home, I handled it badly by becoming depressed, angry and withdrawn, she handled it MUCH worse (in my opinion) by becoming angry and then acting out sexually. Flash forward 4 years, we have worked to rebuild our relationship and, two years ago, we decided to have a baby and now have a beautiful, 16 month old boy.

 

Which leads me to the question in the title. Can spouses who have cheated ever be trusted with Swinging again? Can we go to on-premise clubs and play in front of others for the thrill (neither of us has ever just been with strangers)? Can we have the occasional play time with friends from the lifestyle, while we are away on vacation?

 

Does this risk opening up that "air of permissiveness" I spoke of earlier? Or can it simply be "in the rules" that this is just for us, that there is no "license to thrill"?

 

I'll take my answers off the air.

[havefuninsun 122]

In my opinion and experiences, the ONLY thing cheating and swinging have in common is the fact that you or your spouse is having sex with someone other than their own spouse (or significant other).

 

MOST people do not cheat just for sex. There are other reasons why people find comfort in other people other than their spouse. Sex is usually just one of the expressions that come from that. If you're HAPPY at home, then you talk about troubles and you lean on each other, and you do not seek the solace of someone else.

 

SWINGING is a couple activity which demands couples to be very close ... how else can you trust your spouse to have sex with someone else? If I were not 100% confident in my relationship with Mr. Fun, and if I had ANY feeling he would not be faithful to me (and by faithful I mean lying and playing without my knowledge, which is lying too), there is no way I could do this. BECAUSE of our relationship we can do what we do.

 

Think about it. WHY on earth would I cheat? I have a wonderful man who is happy with my interest in variety, and has no problem with my experimenting in that way. Hell -- he'd even FIND me someone he thought I'd like. If Mr. Fun "cheated" on me, I'd be the most shocked individual ever. If you can't trust your swing partner, who can you trust?

 

I do think couples can recover from bad parts in their relationships. But I think it takes a lot of healing and time. Only you can answer that. Establish your own rules, keep the lines of communication open, and you both can have a lot of fun and keep growing closer every day.

 

Good luck! I hope what I said makes sense.

[lovinher 505]

I agree with havefuninsun. I'll also add that the fact that you asked the question says you are not 100% comfortable with the idea-YET!. Take it slow in baby steps until you are 100% comfortable with it. It may take some time or it may never happen, but IMO you should wait until you find the answer yourself. Nobody here can do that for you.

 

Hope it all goes well and good for you both for working it out.

[incommunicado 228]

I agree with havefuninsun. I'll also add that the fact that you asked the question says you are not 100% comfortable with the idea-YET!. Take it slow in baby steps until you are 100% comfortable with it. It may take some time or it may never happen, but IMO you should wait until you find the answer yourself. Nobody here can do that for you.

 

Hope it all goes well and good for you both for working it out.

 

Honestly, I'm a lot closer to comfortable with the concept then you would think. The problem isn't the act. It's a question of acceptable risk. When we were having problems, her behavior seemed to be all about the need for outside stimulus and pushing boundaries. It made me suspect there might be a sexual addiction, even if she would never admit it. Maybe there was, maybe there wasn't, but I chose to treat it as such and not take risks. Our life since then has been rather stayed, and she has been, as far as I know, faithful for the past 4 years.

 

I would love to swing again. I enjoyed the permissiveness, I enjoyed the taboo and excitement of being with other people. I enjoyed watching her with another man probably most of all. I certainly would get off on having a bunch of people having sex around us at a club. And, I would love both from the standpoint of showing my trust and for my own excitement, to share her with a male friend while on vacation. But, I need to know that I'm not awakening the dragon.

 

By the way, she doesn't even know I am considering this. Maybe the club, but certainly not doing something with our friend while on vacation.

[chp_thrill 15]

Until your situation changes, I would say to not only stay away from swinging, but keep it out of the "pillow talk" as well. Too much to risk, too many red flags, and too little time past since the cheating. Forget clubs, get the relationship fixed, not just working.

If she cheats again, I'd have to say get a divorce. Good luck finding an understanding marriage counselor. You two have serious trust issues that may be resolved with time and effort.

[BorisNatasha 63]

I think you are very strong for even considering it. The only relationship I ever had where I found out the other was cheating was ended by me as a result. I just don't think I could ever give trust again in that situation, swinging or no swinging.

 

This is not a knock on you at all, I truly think that it is commendable you were able to save the relationship and are even considering this. Good luck to you both.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

well maby im not the best advisor on this but we have been married a long while, im shure that iv let it be known that i personally dont do well with things that change. but that is where Mrs.fun has been the good thing in my life that has taught me that things in life do in fact ... change.

im not gonna give the ol, set someone free, if they come back they are yours, if they dont they never were. even though that is true in some respects. but the truth is your talking about .. "trust here". trust is something that at times between couples, is questioned, sometimes tested, and yes.. sometimes abused and lost.

 

with us TRUST IS EARNED and RESPECTED.

 

with what you say about the past im gonna have to ask? is total forgiveness accepted to begin with. no blame from either side. if so, and we have seen it possible and sometimes not. then trust is built.. one step at a time and respected again.

 

you can never change the past, but you can always work on the future. people who learn from mistakes usally dont repeat them, or nothing was learned.

 

my answer to your question " can spouses who have cheated ever be trusted? "..yes, but the trust is built, earned, given and respected by each.

 

a wise person can change, a fool never does.

[rotten&spoiled 15]

Hello,

I am the women half of my marriage. Before we got married, before we even thought of being swingers I had a couple flings. My hubby was not very commited to me then and so at times I felt alone. The point is now about three years later we are working on the trust issues and are playing with the idea of becoming swingers. This was my idea. He is a little un sure whether he can handle me being with another guy, but it may come later.

Just give it time and don't do anything you are not fully ready to. You must communicate with her and let her know that secret relations are not ok, and if she goes against that then things are probably not going to go well for the two of you.

Good Luck

[sereneiders 263]

Honestly, I'm a lot closer to comfortable with the concept then you would think. The problem isn't the act. It's a question of acceptable risk. When we were having problems, her behavior seemed to be all about the need for outside stimulus and pushing boundaries. It made me suspect there might be a sexual addiction, even if she would never admit it. Maybe there was, maybe there wasn't, but I chose to treat it as such and not take risks. Our life since then has been rather stayed, and she has been, as far as I know, faithful for the past 4 years.

 

I would love to swing again. I enjoyed the permissiveness, I enjoyed the taboo and excitement of being with other people. I enjoyed watching her with another man probably most of all. I certainly would get off on having a bunch of people having sex around us at a club. And, I would love both from the standpoint of showing my trust and for my own excitement, to share her with a male friend while on vacation. But, I need to know that I'm not awakening the dragon.

 

By the way, she doesn't even know I am considering this. Maybe the club, but certainly not doing something with our friend while on vacation.

 

So, let me see if I get this right. The fact about her cheating on you four years ago have few to do with her having sex with others, and more with the motivations leading her to cheat on you, and the deceiving attitude of doing it behind your back, right?

 

Besides, in the original post you start by justifying her acts, by pointing out it was a result of your career "failure". It seems to me that you "bought this argument", probabily because this gave you the oportunity to rebuild your relationship. However, it also seems to me she still owe you an appology, to aknowledge her share of responsibility for what happened.

 

I mean, a man's career failure doesn't entitle a wife to "pay back", "punish him" or "leverage things" by means of cheating. For this to happen she should have a lot of expectations put on her husband, even unrealistic expectations (even if feeded by you from beforehand). The problem here would be, if she didn't acknowledge her share or responsibility here, what would prevent her from doing the same should you were unable to meet some further expetaction? How she'd be able to engage in an activity like swinging, requiring both parties to share the responsibilities for whatever outcome this could produce?

 

So, even if the sexual part thrills you, even if you miss what swinging gave to you, you come here asking for a reasurance on your relationship strenght that only you and your wife can provide. The sole fact of asking this question here should be a red flag for you.

 

It seems to me you're (still?) honoring your nickname Spanish meaning: "incomunicated"... you both need to communicate to understand where you're standing right now, and where the risks would be should you ever swing.

[ViSexual 1,008]

It sounds like you're both people who enjoy stretching the sexual boundaries.

 

And, it sounded to me like she was 'screwing around' without you for simply that purpose.

 

If you both agree that you love each other. You've had a baby together and have no intentions of splitting. And that whatever adventures you have together or apart that it's not being unfaithful to your relationship. Then, there can't be any cheating, can there?

[Additude 457]

I don't think thats a fair question, for you or your wife. There is not a "Black & White" answer to the question you asked.

 

I think the question should be "Can you trust your wife with swinging again after she cheated on you"...

 

Only you know that answer and your not here asking because you do trust her. Your asking because you don't trust her, right now anyways.

 

I'd suggest you talk to her and tell her where you are at and see if you can come to some impass over it with some basic swinging rules at first until you feel comfortable with her swinging and then you can progress into swinging deeper over time.

 

Maybe she needs to channel her sexuality more independantly or whatever, you need to find this out and see where she stands with it, swinging and you.

 

Good Luck!

[sexcupid 809]

In a nutshell, we were in a very bad situation at home, I handled it badly by becoming depressed, angry and withdrawn, she handled it MUCH worse (in my opinion) by becoming angry and then acting out sexually. Flash forward 4 years, we have worked to rebuild our relationship and, two years ago, we decided to have a baby and now have a beautiful, 16 month old boy.

 

 

Ok, I don't agree with her acting out in a sexual manner. However, if you basically withdraw from the relationship as described, then you are no longer there for her....then she probably went seeking the things she needed elsewhere (and that goes both ways, I'm not saying what she did was right, but men go looking for sex and companionship outside the relationship for the same reasons women do).

 

It's been said before and I'll go ahead and say it again. Adding children or swinging to a relationship that is already on unsteady footing does not normally bode well. One of your previous posts, you made the comment that at that time you had been together for 13 years and thank goodness that there were no children involved?!? Moot point now that there is, but waiting 15 years to start a family?

 

Then you were already swinging and she STILL felt the need to cheat and go behind your back with other partners? One of our friends did this....they were playing together and he still felt the need to be sneaky....and they are no longer swinging.

 

Yes, you've taken 4 years to rebuild the relationship. Congratulations on that...however, with increased sexual freedom like before, she either may still feel the need to keep pushing the boundaries and even if she's not, you may wonder if she is based on past experiences. Not saying that people can't change, but they sure can stay on some good behavior kick as long as it is benefitting them.

 

If you still want to proceed, I would do so with lots of caution...maybe just soft swap or put on a little exhibishinistic display at the club with each other or something that does not involve actually having sex with other people if you are just looking to add a bit of spice to things.

 

Anyway, that's just my 2 cents.

 

Maria

[incommunicado 228]

Hi,

 

Incommunicado here!

 

Thanks to all of you for your input. I think I made a mistake by giving a little bit of background, because the question would have stood on its own. Instead, it has snowballed into a question not just of whether or not we should swing, but the soundness of our relationship, the wisdom of our having had children, whether we should have stayed together. While some of you have been very kind, and others have been a bit more conservative, others, have been rather strident, casting some strong judgment on my wife for her behavior or mine, all with very little information, unless you went back and read EVERY post from years ago, VERY carefully, VERY slowly and in detail, so as to cover every last piece, from start to resolution.

 

Let me be clear. We had 10 years marriage prior to our troubles. Loyal, faithful, supportive, loving marriage. We supported each other through crummy bosses, underpayment, unemployment, deaths of family and friends and more. We hit what seemed to be serious, unfixable career and money problems that would have cost us EVERYTHING WE HAD (we would have been homeless and penniless) if it had lasted only a month longer than it did. We both handled it badly and she handled it more self destructively than I did (as if withdrawing and wallowing in depression isn't self destructive). Discovering what she had done tore me apart and I nearly left. And, maybe I should have by some of your standards. But, 10 years of marriage is a long time. We were a family and family isn't something that comes with children, it's something you become when you take your vows. That's a lot to walk away from because of one downward spiral, no matter how painful. So we decided to work it out.

 

I'm sorry guys, but those of you who have been married for a decade or more without a known stumble or confidence shaker are the few and the proud. Those of us that make it to 15 years with only 1 bad year in the relationship are the warriors. And the majority are on 2nd and 3rd marriages.

 

My grandparents were married for 70 years. I promise you that, along the way, someone screwed up royally, some how, some way, and possibly more than once, and they both decided that the the journey was more important than a few bumps along the way.

 

Some of your harsher answers and more precipitous judgments have inspired a second question: How many of you have walked away from 10 years or more of marriage that was mostly very good, because you discovered your spouse had strayed? I understand your faith being shaken to the core, but how did you know you made the right decision being that unforgiving? Looking back, are you sure you made the right decision? How can you know for sure?

[incommunicado 228]

Until your situation changes, I would say to not only stay away from swinging, but keep it out of the "pillow talk" as well. Too much to risk, too many red flags, and too little time past since the cheating. Forget clubs, get the relationship fixed, not just working.

If she cheats again, I'd have to say get a divorce. Good luck finding an understanding marriage counselor. You two have serious trust issues that may be resolved with time and effort.

 

I feel compelled to speak to a few of these answers directly.

 

Our relationship is fixed. We went to counseling, together and individually. We identified the problems (plural) before we ever got there.

 

The question isn't of trust. It's of simple cause and effect. If I was an alcoholic, I would know not to take a drink. A shell shocked veteran, I'd know to stay out of war movies. Having swung, in close proximity to the time of her cheating, I related the two. She says they had nothing to do with each other. We stopped swinging anyway, and without protest. Now, YEARS later I am asking the question, "can this be safe, or does it risk re-creating a problem." This is not something I expect to spring on her. We would talk about it before it ever happened and I would expect her, for the sake of our marriage and our son, to be honest about her limitations if she felt she had them.

[incommunicado 228]

So, let me see if I get this right. The fact about her cheating on you four years ago have few to do with her having sex with others, and more with the motivations leading her to cheat on you, and the deceiving attitude of doing it behind your back, right?

 

--CORRECT!

 

Besides, in the original post you start by justifying her acts, by pointing out it was a result of your career "failure". It seems to me that you "bought this argument", probabily because this gave you the oportunity to rebuild your relationship. However, it also seems to me she still owe you an appology, to aknowledge her share of responsibility for what happened.

 

--NOT JUSTIFYING, EXPLAINING. THE ARGUMENT WAS BROUGHT BEFORE I EVER CONSIDERED TRYING TO REBUILD THE RELATIONSHIP. THE APPOLOGY AND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF HER RESPONSIBILITY WERE MADE BEFORE WE EVER MOVED FORWARD.

 

I mean, a man's career failure doesn't entitle a wife to "pay back", "punish him" or "leverage things" by means of cheating. For this to happen she should have a lot of expectations put on her husband, even unrealistic expectations (even if feeded by you from beforehand). The problem here would be, if she didn't acknowledge her share or responsibility here, what would prevent her from doing the same should you were unable to meet some further expetaction? How she'd be able to engage in an activity like swinging, requiring both parties to share the responsibilities for whatever outcome this could produce?

 

-YOU ARE TOTALLY CORRECT. THE FACT IS, THINGS SUCKED, WE HAD NO SOLUTION, WE WERE BOTH SCARED. I TURNED INSIDE AND SHE TURNED TO OTHERS. THERE IS NO ACCEPTIBLE EXCUSE AND SHE KNOWS IT. WE BOTH KNOW WE CAN'T HANDLE THINGS THE WAY WE DID.

 

So, even if the sexual part thrills you, even if you miss what swinging gave to you, you come here asking for a reasurance on your relationship strenght that only you and your wife can provide. The sole fact of asking this question here should be a red flag for you.

 

-NOT LOOKING FOR REASURANCE OF MY RELATIONSHIP STRENGTH. STRICTLY CAUSE AND EFFECT. SWINGING, I AM ALMOST CERTAIN, MADE IT EASIER FOR HER TO CHEAT. PHRASES LIKE "WE ONLY PLAY TOGETHER" ARE A LOT MORE PERMISSIVE THAN "SORRY, I'M MARRIED."

 

It seems to me you're (still?) honoring your nickname Spanish meaning: "incomunicated"... you both need to communicate to understand where you're standing right now, and where the risks would be should you ever swing.

 

ACTUALLY, INCOMMUNICADO COMES FROM A VERY OLD JOKE "WHERE'S SO-AND-SO?" "HE'S INCOMMUNICADO." MEANING, HE'S NOWHERE. IT WAS CHOSEN AS A REPRESENTATION OF MY ANONYMITY TO THE GROUP.

[incommunicado 228]

Ok, I don't agree with her acting out in a sexual manner. However, if you basically withdraw from the relationship as described, then you are no longer there for her....then she probably went seeking the things she needed elsewhere (and that goes both ways, I'm not saying what she did was right, but men go looking for sex and companionship outside the relationship for the same reasons women do).

 

--I WOULD AGREE

 

It's been said before and I'll go ahead and say it again. Adding children or swinging to a relationship that is already on unsteady footing does not normally bode well. One of your previous posts, you made the comment that at that time you had been together for 13 years and thank goodness that there were no children involved?!? Moot point now that there is, but waiting 15 years to start a family?

 

--OUR PROBLEMS TOOK PLACE DURING OUR 11th YEAR. WE SPENT THE SUBSEQUENT TIME SORTING THROUGH OUR PROBLEMS, WHICH IN PART FOR ME WAS THE DEPTH AND BREADTH OF THE BETRAYAL. AND, YES, AT THAT POINT, I WAS GLAD WE HADN'T HAD CHILDREN.

 

CHILDREN, I WILL ADD, WERE SOMETHING WE WANTED TO CONSIDER AFTER WE SPENT A LONG TIME AS JUST A COUPLE, AFTER CAREERS WERE LAUNCHED AND SCHOOL WAS FINISHED (HERS) AND WE HAD ACHIEVED OUR OWN GOALS. MANY OF OUR FRIENDS HAD KIDS RIGHT AFTER MARRIAGE, IN THEIR EARLY TO MID 20'S AND THE TOTALLY SUBJUGATED THEIR LIVES TO THEIR KIDS. WE WANTED TO HAVE KIDS BECAUSE WE WERE READY, HAD DONE WHAT WE WANTED AND COULD WELCOME THEM INTO OUR LIVES. NOT BECAUSE THE CLOCK WAS TICKING. WE DECIDED WE'D RATHER LOOK BACK ON A LIFE OF CHILDLESS DEVOTION TO OUR OWN HAPPINESS THEN REGRET HAVING BEEN HELD BACK.

 

WE HAD 10 GOOD YEARS, 1 PARTIALLY VERY BAD YEAR AND OVER TWO GOOD YEARS AFTER THAT. MAKING A DECISION AT YEAR 13 TO HAVE KIDS WAS MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME AFTER THE TROUBLES. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT, AT SOME POINT YOU ARE EITHER GOING TO MOVE FORWARD OR NOT. FORGIVING IS NEEDED, FORGETTING NOT AN OPTION. BUT, JUST GETTING ON WITH OUR LIVES AND GETTING OUT FROM UNDER THE SHADOW. HER SCHOOL WAS LONG DONE, MY CAREER FINALLY LAUNCHED, MONEY WAS GOOD, WE WERE GOOD AND WE WERE READY FOR CHILDREN.

 

Then you were already swinging and she STILL felt the need to cheat and go behind your back with other partners? One of our friends did this....they were playing together and he still felt the need to be sneaky....and they are no longer swinging.

 

--THAT'S ABOUT THE SIZE OF IT. WAIT, WAS YOUR FRIEND AT THE END OF NEARLY A YEAR OF TERRIFYING FINANCIAL INSTABILITY WITH ONLY A MONTH BEFORE HE AND HIS WIFE LOST EVERYTHING AND WERE PENNILESS AND HOMELESS? IF SO, THEN YES, OUR STORY IS THE SAME. EITHER WAY, IT'S NO EXCUSE, BUT IT'S A REASON FOR TEMPORARY INSANITY. AND WE DON'T SWING ANYMORE EITHER.

 

Yes, you've taken 4 years to rebuild the relationship. Congratulations on that...however, with increased sexual freedom like before, she either may still feel the need to keep pushing the boundaries and even if she's not, you may wonder if she is based on past experiences. Not saying that people can't change, but they sure can stay on some good behavior kick as long as it is benefitting them.

 

--THAT'S EXACTLY MY POINT. DO I TRUST THAT IT WAS COMPLETELY SITUATIONAL, OR DO I ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION THAT SWINGING GAVE HER A SENSE OF FREEDOM THAT IS BEST NOT FELT. AND, YOU ARE RIGHT. PEOPLE CAN STAY ON GOOD BEHAVIOR AS LONG AS IT BENEFITS THEM. I GUESS PART OF TRUST IS TRUSTING THAT SHE DIDN'T PLEAD FOR OUR RELATIONSHIP AND THEN SPENT THE LAST 4 YEARS BEING GOOD OUT OF OPPORTUNISM.

 

If you still want to proceed, I would do so with lots of caution...maybe just soft swap or put on a little exhibishinistic display at the club with each other or something that does not involve actually having sex with other people if you are just looking to add a bit of spice to things.

 

--WE HAVE NO NEED TO ACTUALLY SWAP. JUST A LITTLE SPICE WOULD BE NICE.

 

Anyway, that's just my 2 cents.

 

--THANKS!

 

Maria

[incommunicado 228]

I don't think thats a fair question, for you or your wife. There is not a "Black & White" answer to the question you asked.

 

--I DISAGREE, I THINK THERE IS. OR, AT LEAST A CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE OF RISK.

 

I think the question should be "Can you trust your wife with swinging again after she cheated on you"...

 

--THIS IS A MUCH BETTER QUESTION, I AGREE!

 

Only you know that answer and your not here asking because you do trust her. Your asking because you don't trust her, right now anyways.

 

--I'M NOT ASKING BECAUSE I DON'T TRUST HER. I'M ASKING BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN KNOWING YOUR LIMITATIONS. THE MOST TRUSTWORTHY PERSON IN THE WORLD WILL UTTERLY FAIL IF THERE LIMITATIONS ARE TESTED TO A CERTAIN DEGREE. AS A FRIEND ONCE SAID TO ME, "DON'T THROW THE STEAK ON THE FLOOR AND EXPECT THE DOG NOT TO EAT IT."

 

I'd suggest you talk to her and tell her where you are at and see if you can come to some impass over it with some basic swinging rules at first until you feel comfortable with her swinging and then you can progress into swinging deeper over time.

 

Maybe she needs to channel her sexuality more independantly or whatever, you need to find this out and see where she stands with it, swinging and you.

 

WE TALKED ABOUT WHETHER THERE WAS A NEED FOR "INDEPENDENT STUDY" WAAAAAAYYY BACK WHEN I WAS FIRST DETERMINING WHETHER I COULD OR WANTED TO STAY. SHE FLAT OUT REFUSED AN OPEN RELATIONSHIP WHEN IT WAS LAID BEFORE HER, NO STRINGS ATTACHED NO TEST, JUST "DO YOU WANT THIS?".

 

Good Luck!

 

THANKS!

[incommunicado 228]

Thanks to all for indulging my individual comments.

[sereneiders 263]

... But, 10 years of marriage is a long time. We were a family and family isn't something that comes with children, it's something you become when you take your vows. That's a lot to walk away from because of one downward spiral, no matter how painful. So we decided to work it out.

 

I'm sorry guys, but those of you who have been married for a decade or more without a known stumble or confidence shaker are the few and the proud. Those of us that make it to 15 years with only 1 bad year in the relationship are the warriors. And the majority are on 2nd and 3rd marriages.

 

Well, it was said "It is easy to have many women. What's very difficult is to have just one!"

 

I understand what you mean and where you come from. Yet, I believe people turned judgamental after your own choices for wording your question.

 

I didn't take the time to look back to read all your history from other posts, and I know I wouldn't do it anyway, as I am sure many others didn't as well. However, I don't believe it is my responsibility to "fix" the way your post "mislead" me, and the fact is, in order to answer THIS post, I believe it's more important to stick to your own current words, that to attempt to fill some voids looking for the puzzle's missing pieces in oldest posts.

 

And this isn't the prejudice's appology, and I don't endorse many of the comments other members posted. When we face a post from one spouse talking about the other, we don't have the chance to get to know the other spouse, but the way the poster portrayed him or her. Thus, even when the poster means to talk about the spouse, the poster is talking about him or herself. So, I hardly could judge your wife from your words, the only I can do is judge your words. Not even you, just your words.

 

I don't believe it is casual to choose one way or another to say something (morever if written words, since you have the time to think and express yourself at your own pace, and to re-read and correct what you write), nor it is casual to choose what to say and what to mute. These choices tells a lot about you, about the problem, and about where you're standing to face it, and even sometimes these choices tells you more than the explicit words.

 

Of course, I can missunderstand the whole thing, however every one of us answer back from our own (miss)understanding, hoping our (miss)understandings to be able to help you reach some insight, even if it makes sense only for you.

 

The question is... from what you said, and the way you said it, there isn't anything able to lead us to missunderstand the situation? Re-read your post, please, because I believe you expressed pretty well the bottom of your question, wheter you like it or not.

 

ACTUALLY, INCOMMUNICADO COMES FROM A VERY OLD JOKE "WHERE'S SO-AND-SO?" "HE'S INCOMMUNICADO." MEANING, HE'S NOWHERE. IT WAS CHOSEN AS A REPRESENTATION OF MY ANONYMITY TO THE GROUP.

 

I don't know the joke, it called my attention your choice (again) for a nickname, and the way I (miss)understood it since Spanish is my born language. However, I believe I understand where the joke relies: "incomunicado" (just one "m" in spanish) is the legal term for someone jailed and isolated, monetarily deprived from the right to speak with others. In many Latinamerican countiries, during military governments and/or with para-legal systems, this also could mean to be "missing" (nowhere). This makes your choice even more intriguing by now.

 

Anyway, all of this is to point out that I am being lead more by the CHOICES you make, that I may know from your posts, than by the way you portrayed your situation and the choices you claim to make for the portray sake. And I am inviting you to look at them.

[incommunicado 228]

Oh dear. Is there no one out there who isn't looking to read far more into this than they are supposed to? Even my choice of screen name is called into question as having some deep rooted meaning.

 

I have re-read my posts, past and present, on the subject. Addressing the present only, I think they were VERY clear, in all their detail. There is nothing to be misread and no way to be mislead. They all say, basically, "Had problems. Problems long gone. Return to swinging? Yes? No?" Why don't all of you get that?

 

Some of you have said, "Yes, this can be done." Some have said, "no, there's a risk it could trigger something in her". These are helpful and what I was looking for (never wanted anyone to tell me exactly what I wanted to hear). But, far too many of you have tried to use a small overview of background info, to tell me we still have problems, even though I have been clear that our troubles are over, but I just want to be cautious.

 

Let's get back to the screen name. I've had it since way before we hit our rough patch. It was from a joke in a BUGS BUNNY cartoon! It doesn't say ANYTHING about me. No secrets. No deep rooted this or that. No Spanish, no Latin. No "Isolated" or "Alone". It represents privacy and my feeling that this is a private activity. Nothing more.

 

It's funny, and more than a little scary. When I had real problems and I turned to the group for support, I gave tons of information and got mostly supportive responses (work it out, get therapy, love can prevail, you can work past this). When I finally had the big picture, and told the group we were working it out, I was met with 90+% "YAYYYY! Happy Ending!". Even Julie followed up with me a few times privately to see how I was doing. But, this time, I give some basic background and ask if we can return to swinging after healing from a bad patch in your relationship, and it's like the 10% or less of the negative people from before, make up 90% of my replies. All giving their dime-store analysis based on very little information that should be taken at face value ("had problems, problems done. Swing again? yes? no?") and reading WAAAYYY to much into it. Come on, the SCREEN NAME?

 

Now, since I obviously don't own this thread anymore, and I have gotten very little helpful response actually addressing my question. I will now leave the thread to the group. If my calculations are correct, the next postings will be peppered with out of context quotes from my postings, in an attempt to prove me wrong, on whatever level the writers choose to fixate.

 

Feel free to talk amongst yourselves.

 

Well, it was said "It is easy to have many women. What's very difficult is to have just one!"

 

I understand what you mean and where you come from. Yet, I believe people turned judgamental after your own choices for wording your question.

 

I didn't take the time to look back to read all your history from other posts, and I know I wouldn't do it anyway, as I am sure many others didn't as well. However, I don't believe it is my responsibility to "fix" the way your post "mislead" me, and the fact is, in order to answer THIS post, I believe it's more important to stick to your own current words, that to attempt to fill some voids looking for the puzzle's missing pieces in oldest posts.

 

And this isn't the prejudice's appology, and I don't endorse many of the comments other members posted. When we face a post from one spouse talking about the other, we don't have the chance to get to know the other spouse, but the way the poster portrayed him or her. Thus, even when the poster means to talk about the spouse, the poster is talking about him or herself. So, I hardly could judge your wife from your words, the only I can do is judge your words. Not even you, just your words.

 

I don't believe it is casual to choose one way or another to say something (morever if written words, since you have the time to think and express yourself at your own pace, and to re-read and correct what you write), nor it is casual to choose what to say and what to mute. These choices tells a lot about you, about the problem, and about where you're standing to face it, and even sometimes these choices tells you more than the explicit words.

 

Of course, I can missunderstand the whole thing, however every one of us answer back from our own (miss)understanding, hoping our (miss)understandings to be able to help you reach some insight, even if it makes sense only for you.

 

The question is... from what you said, and the way you said it, there isn't anything able to lead us to missunderstand the situation? Re-read your post, please, because I believe you expressed pretty well the bottom of your question, whether you like it or not.

 

 

 

I don't know the joke, it called my attention your choice (again) for a nickname, and the way I (miss)understood it since Spanish is my born language. However, I believe I understand where the joke relies: "incomunicado" (just one "m" in spanish) is the legal term for someone jailed and isolated, monetarily deprived from the right to speak with others. In many Latinamerican countiries, during military governments and/or with para-legal systems, this also could mean to be "missing" (nowhere). This makes your choice even more intriguing by now.

 

Anyway, all of this is to point out that I am being lead more by the CHOICES you make, that I may know from your posts, than by the way you portrayed your situation and the choices you claim to make for the portray sake. And I am inviting you to look at them.

[Tybee Swing 286]

Can spouses who have cheated ever be trusted with Swinging again?

 

Hi incommunicado, if you're still here.

 

I don't think it's possible to give an across-the-board answer to this question. There are so many variables. It depends entirely on whether or not the past was fully resolved and changes made. I mean real changes, to the degree that if times were to get hard again and "life happens", the formerly cheating spouse could be trusted to stand by you, be mature and supportive, and not run off seeking self-gratification when hard times come. People generally react to situations based on deep-down personality characteristics and core values. Those things are mighty hard to change.

 

Personally, I doubt that I would be able to fully and completely trust this person after that degree of cheating had occurred, and in those circumstances. If trust was to be rebuilt, I would have to witness proven, consistent demonstrations of changes and over a significant period of time. That is, if I was even able to stay with a person who had betrayed my trust in this manner. "Actions speak louder than words" - cheating (and the associated sneaking around, covering up, lying) are actions that really scream out loudly. I can only give you an answer from my personal perspective - and we are all different. I think you'll have to find the answer for yourself.

 

Turning the question back in a personal way, ask yourself this:

Do you believe that you can trust your spouse with swinging? Has your spouse proven her love, loyalty and devotion to you? Do her actions now foster a closeness that surpasses what you had before? Can you say that she is your best friend?

 

These things would matter most to me. Best wishes to you.

[lovinher 505]

Turning the question back in a personal way, ask yourself this:

Do you believe that you can trust your spouse with swinging? Has your spouse proven her love, loyalty and devotion to you? Do her actions now foster a closeness that surpasses what you had before? Can you say that she is your best friend?

 

These things would matter most to me. Best wishes to you

 

Unless you can answer yes to every one of these questions, I'd hold off period. I'm sorry dude, but the title of your thread says you can't right now.

Take (some) of the advice given and don't be one of those that get's pissed off when they are told things they don't want to hear.

[lovinher 505]

If my calculations are correct, the next postings will be peppered with out of context quotes from my postings, in an attempt to prove me wrong, on whatever level the writers choose to fixate.

 

I can't help myself......if we are attempting to "prove you wrong", you obviuosly feel you are right. So what was the point in posting?

 

BTW...I do like the screen name. Fits right in here.

[sexcupid 809]

--THAT'S ABOUT THE SIZE OF IT. WAIT, WAS YOUR FRIEND AT THE END OF NEARLY A YEAR OF TERRIFYING FINANCIAL INSTABILITY WITH ONLY A MONTH BEFORE HE AND HIS WIFE LOST EVERYTHING AND WERE PENNILESS AND HOMELESS? IF SO, THEN YES, OUR STORY IS THE SAME. EITHER WAY, IT'S NO EXCUSE, BUT IT'S A REASON FOR TEMPORARY INSANITY. AND WE DON'T SWING ANYMORE EITHER.

 

--THAT'S EXACTLY MY POINT. DO I TRUST THAT IT WAS COMPLETELY SITUATIONAL, OR DO I ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION THAT SWINGING GAVE HER A SENSE OF FREEDOM THAT IS BEST NOT FELT. AND, YOU ARE RIGHT. PEOPLE CAN STAY ON GOOD BEHAVIOR AS LONG AS IT BENEFITS THEM. I GUESS PART OF TRUST IS TRUSTING THAT SHE DIDN'T PLEAD FOR OUR RELATIONSHIP AND THEN SPENT THE LAST 4 YEARS BEING GOOD OUT OF OPPORTUNISM.

 

--WE HAVE NO NEED TO ACTUALLY SWAP. JUST A LITTLE SPICE WOULD BE NICE.

 

As far as my friend is concerned, yes the financial situation was nearly the same. They were getting ready to be kicked out of their home, he was having trouble finding/keeping a job, she wasn't working at the time to stay home with their children, ect.

 

For the 'good behavior' of the last few years, only she (and you) have your reasons for staying or not wanting to end things. You know, as do I, it's alot easier to be with someone when things are going well. I was not questioning if you considered yourself a family without children, but there are people out there that are married for 20 or 30 years and would still part ways after learning of multiple infidelities. Some stick around because of financial reasons, they do the math and realize that they can not support themselves in a particular lifestyle and it's easier to do some things with 2 incomes. Well all have our reasons for doing the things that we do, there is no one size fits all.

 

If all you are looking for is spice, then maybe a sexually charged atmosphere (a swing club) and the exihibishion-istic (not even sure if that's a word.. ) side of having other people watch you have sex/play might be the ticket? You get a little spice added b/c of the atmosphere and the openess, but you aren't quite jumping into the trickier waters of partner swap. Not sure if the vacationing idea with the single male would be a good idea, she might think it's ok to be more 'liberal' with him at other times as well.

 

I would definitely broach the topic with her and see what her thoughts are. Maybe she's scared to get back into any lifestyle activites because of what happened before? See if she just liked the atmosphere, and where she stands in general?

 

You seem to have put yourself on the defensive....however I DID go back and read your posts and replies on the previous thread (before I posted my previous reply) where your wife was chatting, sending pics and emails and you set up a user name and was chatting with her and all that (just to summarize). Unfortunately, we really aren't trying to offend you here, but when you ask for people's opinions, some of them are not going to be to your liking.

 

Again, just my 2 cents worth. Let us know how things turn out.

 

Maria

[sereneiders 263]

Well, I hope you're still reading this.

 

This isn't about who's right or who's wrong, and I don't want to prove you right or wrong either.

 

Should ny wife ever cheated on me, would I swing? Even if attempting to extrapolate your scenario to mine, MY personal answer wouldn't help you. It isn't a matter of will, but just the nature of the way we all think: when we have missing data, we figure it out based on our personal experience. No matter how much you tell, there would be more missing pieces than the ones you provided, thus any advice would be biased to our personal experience. You wouldn't be able to even treat the answers statistically, because every one of us (including yourself) is a different world.

 

Being aware of this, should I say "GO FOR IT", or "DON'T", even if I honestly believe this could be missleading you? Sorry but, I wont.

 

I just tried to stick to the provided data, and make some hypotesis hoping them to be able to help you figure out the answers you're looking for, by yourself. I don't know enough to make statements about you and your relationship. You're the only one able to tell if what I said is right or wrong. This could go on with you telling me "hey dude, you're wrong about this, you're right about that", without taking it personally.

 

Now, I'll tell you what I got from your words:

 

About four years ago, due to some scary problems with money and career (O.K., my failed career), my wife started having affairs. In a nutshell, there were probably at 3 men she had sex with on at least a few occasions. She also exchanged a lot of racy to raunchy e-mails with men we both knew, and sent nude pictures of herself to at least one that I discovered.

 

This tells a lot about where you are. I may be wrong, of course, but, if that happend and it is a closed chapter, and closed in a way that would allow you two to swing, with the requirements for honesty this implies for most of us, then... why don't you know exactly how many men she had sex with? Why you're still relying on what you discovered, and not in your wife's words for it (given for granted you already talked about this)?

 

This paragraph tells me you MAY BE still in the dark about a lot of what happened. Yet, it is just a clue, a "MAY BE", thus, it isn't enough for me to advice you against swinging.

 

You may not want to know, perhaps you two figured out a way to fix the relationship requiring to avoid addressing some subjects that could be hurtfull, and I am asking here if the same you did, proving to be enough to fix your problems, would be enough to engange in swinging. The fact is, this is a mere conjeture, one of many ways to "explain" why you had chosen your words: I DON'T KNOW, moreover, IT ISN'T MY BUSINESS since you didn't address this point.

 

However, I believe this should be enough food for tought, that MAY BE here is a big clue for your answer.

 

And notice, I didn't make any judgment here about you, about your wife, nor about your relationship. Just about the words ringing my bell.

 

It is up to you to take or leave this. But if you pick it up to just to beat me up because of what I said, I am entitled to suppose I may be touching an open wound, perhaps one you don't want to aknowledge... and AGAIN, I may be wrong.

 

And I don't care who's right or wrong here, this outcome doesn't affect my life, the only that matters here is what ultimatelly affects YOURS.

[incommunicado 228]

I am still reading this but I am awfully sick of this thread. You say it's not about right or wrong, and then pull another out of context quote to try to prove me wrong.

 

This thread was never about about this and you and others have made it such.

 

Answer my question. Tell me yes. Tell me no. Tell me you don't know enough about us, about the situation, about the cosmos, about whatever to answer my question. But, stop picking little, out of context quotes to try to analyze more than needs to be anlalyzed.

 

I'm done rephrasing this, in some vain attempt to get you all to understand that we got past our dark time, YEARS have past, and are ready to move on and MAY be ready for this but could use some insight.

 

Will we swing? Maybe, maybe not. Do I think swinging played a part in her behavior before? Yes. Do I think it could trigger it again? Maybe. That's why I asked the question. If there's no easier answer, fine.

 

Let me repeat a question I asked in an earlier post that has gone unanswered. How many of you have walked away from a decade or more of good marriage, because your spouse cheated? What's YOUR story? How easy was it for you to walk away? How sure are you that you were right to do so?

 

Enough about me, let's talk about you.

 

Well, I hope you're still reading this.

 

This isn't about who's right or who's wrong, and I don't want to prove you right or wrong either.

 

Should ny wife ever cheated on me, would I swing? Even if attempting to extrapolate your scenario to mine, MY personal answer wouldn't help you. It isn't a matter of will, but just the nature of the way we all think: when we have missing data, we figure it out based on our personal experience. No matter how much you tell, there would be more missing pieces than the ones you provided, thus any advice would be biased to our personal experience. You wouldn't be able to even treat the answers statistically, because every one of us (including yourself) is a different world.

 

Being aware of this, should I say "GO FOR IT", or "DON'T", even if I honestly believe this could be missleading you? Sorry but, I wont.

 

I just tried to stick to the provided data, and make some hypotesis hoping them to be able to help you figure out the answers you're looking for, by yourself. I don't know enough to make statements about you and your relationship. You're the only one able to tell if what I said is right or wrong. This could go on with you telling me "hey dude, you're wrong about this, you're right about that", without taking it personally.

 

Now, I'll tell you what I got from your words:

 

 

 

This tells a lot about where you are. I may be wrong, of course, but, if that happend and it is a closed chapter, and closed in a way that would allow you two to swing, with the requirements for honesty this implies for most of us, then... why don't you know exactly how many men she had sex with? Why you're still relying on what you discovered, and not in your wife's words for it (given for granted you already talked about this)?

 

This paragraph tells me you MAY BE still in the dark about a lot of what happened. Yet, it is just a clue, a "MAY BE", thus, it isn't enough for me to advice you against swinging.

 

You may not want to know, perhaps you two figured out a way to fix the relationship requiring to avoid addressing some subjects that could be hurtfull, and I am asking here if the same you did, proving to be enough to fix your problems, would be enough to engange in swinging. The fact is, this is a mere conjeture, one of many ways to "explain" why you had chosen your words: I DON'T KNOW, moreover, IT ISN'T MY BUSINESS since you didn't address this point.

 

However, I believe this should be enough food for tought, that MAY BE here is a big clue for your answer.

 

And notice, I didn't make any judgment here about you, about your wife, nor about your relationship. Just about the words ringing my bell.

 

It is up to you to take or leave this. But if you pick it up to just to beat me up because of what I said, I am entitled to suppose I may be touching an open wound, perhaps one you don't want to aknowledge... and AGAIN, I may be wrong.

 

And I don't care who's right or wrong here, this outcome doesn't affect my life, the only that matters here is what ultimatelly affects YOURS.

[lovinher 505]

Come on man, nobody told you to walk away from your marriage. There were some "out there" responses but you'll have that here. I'm sorry you went through what you did and you must really love her to forgive as you have. With the amount of posts you have you should know that trust is swinging 101. Right now you don't seem to have that trust completely. IMO, if you had no doubts about swinging you would not have asked...

Can spouses who have cheated ever be trusted with Swinging again?

 

Do I think swinging played a part in her behavior before? Yes. Do I think it could trigger it again? Maybe.

 

Why the hell would you chance it? You want it that bad?

[sereneiders 263]

We've been togheter for 17 years. No one "cheated" on each other, even when we granted each other "permission" to do it should we meet someone able to make it happen, just with a "don't tell" policy, and at some point we started swinging.

 

Up to me, cheating isn't such a big deal. Loyalty is, and loyalty have to do with the contract you arranged for your relationship (and not a signed paper). Cheating may or may not imply a lack of loyalty.

 

Can spouses who have cheated ever be trusted with Swinging again? perhaps. Can spouses who have been unloyal ever be trusted with Swinging again? I doub't so, unless a lot of water passed under the bridge.

 

Again, there's no "yes" or "no". Ask someone else.

[BorisNatasha 63]

Some of your harsher answers and more precipitous judgments have inspired a second question: How many of you have walked away from 10 years or more of marriage that was mostly very good, because you discovered your spouse had strayed? I understand your faith being shaken to the core, but how did you know you made the right decision being that unforgiving? Looking back, are you sure you made the right decision? How can you know for sure?

 

I ended a 6 year co-habitating relationship over infidelity. I did it because I knew I could never trust her again. I know I made the right decision because now I'm with a lovely, wonderful, faithful woman who has been through the same thing I have and knows the pain it causes. We also both know that if either of us does cheat, it will be the end, whether it happens at 5 years or 25 years.

 

Some people can handle cheating and recover from it, some cannot. It's not a knock on you either way, so please don't take it that way.

[incommunicado 228]

I only logged back on because people were courteous enough to answer my questions in a non-judgmental fashion.

 

You are right. Cheating isn't a big deal, loyalty is as is respect. And, during our bad time, she acted out with an extremism that showed a lack of both. It is only her pleading, her willingness to come clean about everything (eventually), and the fact that her behavior was so over the top that it screamed of a problem, that allowed me to even consider staying.

 

Maybe it was just our problems that caused her to go off the deep end. Maybe it was that in conjunction with Swinging. Having swung, intermittently, with people over our first ten years, I would think that if it was the taste of swinging that caused her to cut loose, she would have done it far earlier than our 11th year, since we had swung, in some form or another, during that time. It was only during our problem time that she began to mis-behave. Now we have 4 years of good behavior to refer back on. Never-the-less, you are correct. Why chance it? So, I won't.

 

We've been togheter for 17 years. No one "cheated" on each other, even when we granted each other "permission" to do it should we meet someone able to make it happen, just with a "don't tell" policy, and at some point we started swinging.

 

Up to me, cheating isn't such a big deal. Loyalty is, and loyalty have to do with the contract you arranged for your relationship (and not a signed paper). Cheating may or may not imply a lack of loyalty.

 

Can spouses who have cheated ever be trusted with Swinging again? perhaps. Can spouses who have been unloyal ever be trusted with Swinging again? I doub't so, unless a lot of water passed under the bridge.

 

Again, there's no "yes" or "no". Ask someone else.

[incommunicado 228]

Thank you for your answer. I think I will always take circumstances into consideration, but I will only give one reprieve.

 

I ended a 6 year co-habitating relationship over infidelity. I did it because I knew I could never trust her again. I know I made the right decision because now I'm with a lovely, wonderful, faithful woman who has been through the same thing I have and knows the pain it causes. We also both know that if either of us does cheat, it will be the end, whether it happens at 5 years or 25 years.

 

Some people can handle cheating and recover from it, some cannot. It's not a knock on you either way, so please don't take it that way.

[Vicktoria1958 15]

If you have truly healed the wounds of the past, then there is no reason to avoid something you both find enjoyable. Simply make clear between you that the swinging will be about doing it together and sharing the experiences. Sometimes surviving the hurtfulness of cheating makes a couple stronger and imbued with a much healthier perspective on what's important in a marriage. That alone can make the joys of swinging available without hurting the relationship and with the possibility of continuing to strengthen it through shared pleasures AND JOYS.