Are women who swing pressured into it?

[JustDave 15]

Hi, I have posted here not too long ago asking for advice or insight. I have brought up the topic of swinging with my wife. We had a very open and lenghty conversation in regards to swinging. Where we left it off was that my wife is of the very strong belief that sex is associated with love therefore she could never have casual sex with another person, man or woman. She feels that the majority of women also associate sex with love. I don't mean to open pandoras box but she feels that most of the women who swing or live in the lifestyle are probably doing it because they feel pressured from their SO, or are afraid of losing their SO or are unsatisfied somehow in their relationship or unsatisfied sexually. She feels that men have a much easier time because they can disassociate sex from love. It will probably be difficult to get open honest responses from the ladies on this but I wanted to at least try. I'm not trying to pressure her or change her mind but wanted her to see some other opinions.

[flkeyscouple 21]

Each person is different, and I can understand her feelings, but I don't share them. I can separate sex from love. I am FAR from pressured to be in the lifestyle. I enjoy it, truly enjoy it. I am very much in love with my husband and I have NO loving feelings towards any of the partners and playmates that we've had. I have a lot of 'hot' feelings - sexual only. But not anything loving.

 

I don't know another way to say it - but there is a huge difference, for me, between sex and love. I've never 'made love' with a playmate or partner, but I do have sex with my husband, ALONG with making love with my husband.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

Sarah

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I KNOW that there are cases where one partner swings because the other has pressured them, but I also know that it's not always the man doing the pressuring.

 

That said, I can tell you that I began swinging not because of any pressure from my SO and I continued to swing after he was out of my life. I brought it up to my current partner and I was happy to find that he was open to exploring.

[NJCouple 16]

When I was young, naive, inexperienced etc, I linked sex with love and could only have sex if I felt I was in love. I have, however, learned to seperate sex with someone other than my spouse as just sex. First, it took a strong relationship with my husband and then strong self-confidence. It is impossible to swing without complete trust in your spouse and yourself. An analogy that works for me is that I can get pleasure from a vibrator. I'm certainly not in-love with my vibrator. Another person is just a much better sex toy, one that you don't keep in the nightstand. LOL. Sex with my husband will always be special because of the bond of love, but we both enjoy giving each other pleasure and one way to do so is to share with others. Everyone has different philosophies on sex with others and the most important thing is to keep an open, non-judgemental mind. She should not change her philosophy because of pressure from others, but she should be open to others having differing ideas that are not wrong. When you look at things with an open mind, you may or may not change your opinion, but you will be wiser for having examined the issue.

Regards,

Sharon

[TNT 1,155]

JustDave said:

It will probably be difficult to get open honest responses from the ladies on this but I wanted to at least try.

 

Naw...that won't be difficult at all . Why do you think it would be difficult? Do you also think that the women who are involved in swinging are being pressured to do so and therefore would not voice an honest answer?

 

I've NEVER felt pressured to swing and I've NEVER been afraid that I would lose Ted if I didn't. He was the one that brought it up but he was also a little shocked that I said yes so quickly. Neither of us were dissatisfied with our relationship or our sex life...just the opposite, it's because our relationship and sex life were so GREAT that we were able to swing.

 

Your wife might never be able to wrap her mind around swinging and that's okay...swinging is NOT for everyone. However, what she believes about women who are into swinging, simply isn't true for the majority of us.

 

Teresa

[graygo98 148]

Hi Dave,

 

Sorry I can't give you the fem perspective. And the posts above give you some pretty powerful insights. My wife and I thought that this post of Intuition's, which touches on some of your wife's questions, was also a really worthwhile read.

 

You should suggest to your wife that she read it, as well as the thread you have started here. While she has the right to feel or believe whatever she thinks is right for her, she might be interested in what some other very bright and articulate, as well as exceptionally self-aware, women have said on the subject.

[LFM2 1,482]

I can seriously see why your wife would feel that way. I felt that same exact way at one time, as well. Seriously though, I've "grown and matured" and I have to admit that I've grown as a person who is more self-confident. I've built more self-esteem in myself and I really do not have a problem sharing myself or having my husband share himself because after all, it really is just sex. Never, have I felt pressured to live a lie in this lifestyle. It's fun and it feels good, but there is not one little teeny-weeny iota of loving emotion that passes between us and our playmates. Sure, we're friends with them, and we like them, but we don't have to love them in order to play with them. It's a whole different story when my husband and I are alone.

 

There is a matter of trust between us, and we have the utmost trust and respect for each other. There is a bond between my husband and I that we both feel can't be broken. We are a team and we travel as one. I don't know if I can explain to you how much I love him and how great our sex life is, but it's just there, and like Teresa said, this is why we got into the lifestyle. I want to see him happy, and I want him to explore is fantasies. This in turn pleases me and he wants the same thing for me.

 

On the other hand, if one of us wanted to quit tomorrow, neither one of us would feel cheated out of anything.

[ohash01 20]

I have never once been pressured by J. It's always been just as much my decision as his. I also have the ability to differentiate sex and love. You can most definately have both at the same time, but I don't think you need to love to have sex. Sex is physical. Love is emotional. Now - I'm not putting down your wife...some people just dont get enough enjoyment out of non-intimate sex to consider it. She may be one of them.

[gatorvol64 216]

Nope, no pressure at all. That is my honest answer. Yes, he brought the subject up (though that isn't always the case). But, if I didn't want to do this, it would have stayed a fantasy for him to share with me. A fantasy I never minded hearing and never felt I had to make come true. A fantasy that I didn't really understand at first and wondered why? And what would be the point? I did want to understand so, we talked about it. One day a light bulb came on for me and I went .

 

It really is simple for us when you get down to the nitty gritty of it. We want to see each other happy. If that means bringing others into our sex life well, we do. Could we both live without it? Sure we could. We love each other, are very happy together, and we DO have a great sex life without swinging. Nothing lacking in this relationship. Do we love any of the playmates we've been with? No, not one. Are we friends with some of them? Yes, and feel lucky we can be. But I'll tell you there is love floating around when we play. Our love for each other is always there. I'm a very lucky woman to have the kind of man my husband is. Our first experience was a threesome. With another man (not what I feel some would have imagined). I think that shows somewhat that I wasn't pressured. His #1 priority was not for him but for me (and a grateful woman went home with him that night).

 

Swinging may never be something your wife is comfortable with and there isn't a thing wrong with that. Just, no matter what comes about for the two of you, it would be nice for her to understand that a lot of us have felt no pressure at all from out SO.

 

Vol

[Mr. Truelove 81]

I brought up the topic originally to my wife. But she ran with it. Seriously I started putting on the brakes after I told her.

 

It took me about 6 months to become comfortable enough to go to our first activity. She was ready from the get go. So definitely no pressure from me.

[wdc_couple 15]

Ours was the opposite. My wife was more "experienced" than I was when we got married, mainly because she did separate sex and love and I did not. We slowly went into swinging (after over 10 years of being married), I now separate the two, and we both enjoy it very much. It makes sex with each other even better, and even though we were still very flirty with each other prior to swinging (to the jealousy of some of her vanilla girlfriends and the dismay of some of their husbands), we are even more flirty with each other now. Go figure.

[cubnamy1995 124]

Ours was the opposite. My wife was more "experienced" than I was when we got married, mainly because she did separate sex and love and I did not. We slowly went into swinging (after over 10 years of being married), I now separate the two, and we both enjoy it very much. It makes sex with each other even better, and even though we were still very flirty with each other prior to swinging (to the jealousy of some of her vanilla girlfriends and the dismay of some of their husbands), we are even more flirty with each other now. Go figure.

 

I could not have said it better. This is almost exactly how it was for us too. When she & I first got together, I thought two girls having sex was wrong (OMG! I was mentally ill!) It was so bad back then, that I was actually a republican! She actually had a guy come up to her a few years back, who said, "remember when we hooked up?" She had gotten laid a couple of times in college that she didn't even remember.

 

Needless to say, she showed me the path, and turned me to the dark side of the force. To this very day, I still can't remember why it was such a big deal to me before.

[WesternSwing 504]

Mrs. WS and I had discussed swinging as fantasies before we ever got into it, which was quite by accident really. In the past we had discussed the "what if" situations with people we knew. The "would you ever think of...?" But, it remained just fantasy talk between us and we never really took it seriously until at a party a woman asked if she could kiss Mrs. WS.

 

It was the first woman Mrs. WS had ever kissed and it opened-up a whole new world for her. She loved it. We hung-out with this couple throughout the night and became friends. At the time Mrs. WS and I didn't even know it was called "swinging" but we decided we'd like to pursue it further with this couple so Mrs. WS could explore her new-found sexuality, and we did about a month later. Mrs. WS was driving the bus, I was just a lucky passenger along for the ride.

 

It took-off from there. That was three years ago. And we are still good friends with that first couple.

 

So you can see that, no, Mrs. WS was not pressured into it at all. When the time was right we were both excited about it happening. There was not "convincing" the other one to try it.

 

I guess that's the great thing about being on the same page in your relationship, huh? Or at least not being threatened by each other's fantasies so that they are free to openly express them to you.

 

I think another thing to is that Mrs. WS didn't come into our relationship having never slept with anyone but me and her ex-husband. She'd had lovers and boyfriends and one-night-stands, therefore she didn't associate sex with love, or having to be "in love" with someone to have sex with them.

[JustDave 15]

I've gotten really great responses from all of you. I really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts and experience. I think what it comes down to with my wife and I is that we view swinging very differently and I think it's because I could disassociate sex with love where at this partucular time she is unable to do that. Maybe I'll bring up the topic to her again in the future, after she's had time to think about our conversations, to see if she has changed her opinion at all. If she never changes her opinion I'm OK with that. I was looking at swinging as just another way to spice things up for us after being married for 28 years. Thanks again.

[ts4 15]

Were pretty new to the swinging lifestyle and do not openly go to club's and meetings to find strangers in the night. We found friends that have the same thought's we do but it took nearly 10 years to find it. My wife and i jointly brought up swinging together many years ago but she's not into just finding anyone to play with. We had the perfect scenario happen to us. We ended up with friends we have been jointly attracted to for years and from the first experience it's been a hell of a ride. But it all came about because we love each other and when the idea grew so did we. There isn't a day or night that i do not tell my wife how much i love her. We have a lot of fun playing with these people but in the end it is strictly flat out sex. Before anything happened both sides of the equation discussed there joint love for there spouses and non of us have any intention of changing that. ONCE you get the communication down the ride is a hell of a lot funner.

 

Like you've seen throughout this site communication is the key.

 

Back to your original question neither of us feel's pressured since we discuss everything together. I'm in agreement that if one of us said no tomorrow it would be all over. Thank god i do not see that happening.

 

[JustDave 15]

Are there any good books out there that accurately explain swinging? It would be good if the book described the positives and the enjoyment of swinging but it would also be helpful to hear about any negatives or pitfalls that might be looming out there. It's always good to have a complete picture when considering something.

[Drknow 47]

Interesting thread. I must state from the start that we are not swingers, but I have for years envied them. I also have to state that most women I think do feel like Dave's wife, they cannot dissociate sex and love and that it is easier for men in general to do so. Though I agree with just about everything that has been stated here, it is a giant step to bridge from seeing sex as purely an expression of love to viewing it as one would a game of mixed doubles. I think this is one reason I envie you guys, because this is a step I don't think my wife is capable of making. If more women were able to, I think we sure would have a lot more swingers out there.

[Gladiola4u 16]

For me, my husband had brought up the subject of adding a woman to our sex life. The day he brought that up I don't know if I wanted to shoot him or just keep talking about it. I had told him straight and flat out no, although we talked about it for hours that day and we discussed all the "what ifs" and all the "what about" I told him no. He left the subject alone for months until I brought it up to him. I always thought and was scared that it was my husband that would fall in love with another woman and not want me anymore. I discussed this with my brother (he often has threesomes) and he told me about a lot of the fun stuff that you can have but also some of the downfalls of it. It opened my eyes and made me see a few things differently than what a lot of people have in mind of what swinging is and how sex can be so much fun without having to be in love with the person or without having those kind of ties with your playmate.

 

After this discussion with my brother I went back to my husband and suggested joining a club and see how I felt there while I was surrounded by swingers and how I would feel before any serious playing. Since then, I have just been wanting to go back and after our first threesome and swap with another couple, man I just can't get enough.

[LFM2 1,482]

I always thought and was scared that it was my husband that would fall in love with another woman and not want me anymore.

 

Yep. I know this exact feeling. I still to this day can't believe how ridiculous that thought was and how worked up I was over it. In reality, I couldn't believe that someone loves me that much. What a dope I was. I'm soooooo very lucky to have him!

[WesternSwing 504]

If more women were able to, I think we sure would have a lot more swingers out there.

And more men. In another thread I mention a coworker. He's said on many occasions he'd like to have a FMF but as he puts it "I can't let another guy mow my grass". So he has no problem banging other women in front of his wife, but no man is going to touch his wife. He can't handle that emotionally. So it is not just a problem with women. Men have it too, as much or more. Maybe not separating love and sex, but the idea of insecurity and that "what if they like the other person more and leave you".

 

And in fact, even though he knows we have FMF threesomes, Mrs. WS will in no way admit to him that we are swingers or he'd lose all respect for us because I let another man "mow my grass". I'd be "crazy" and Mrs. WS would be a "slut" in his mind. A real double standard, but one that is prevalent in our society.

[cubnamy1995 124]

 

Women get labeled as the "emotional" ones with all the hang ups that estrogen produces, but testosterone does some crazy things too. We guys have this unspoken "macho" code that we are supposed to live up to. It says that sport f%@king other women is a manly thing to do, but if you let another man touch your wife, then you are weak, and incapable of hanging on to what is "yours." I don't know how much of it is innate and how much is taught to us, but we've all been there.

 

My vanilla guy friends would completely lose all respect for me if they knew that my wife enjoys some strange now and again. Here's where maturity comes in. I don't care. The sheer delight I feel in knowing that my wife is really enjoying herself is something I can't explain, and don't want to. It does not need nor deserves explanation.

 

We all may subscribe to the assumption that it is easy to find a willing male to join in for a MFM, but that female unicorn is elusive. I say both is true. If my wife plays with another guy, it has to be one that at least has a basic understanding of the lifestyle. This minimizes the chance that the male ego will override common sense and create a situation for us. We had to learn this lesson the hard way.

 

Back before we knew the lingo, and was just experimenting with what we now know is swinging, we made the mistake of inviting a guy the mrs. worked with back to play with us. We had a great time, but much to our dismay, he broadcast the story to everyone my wife worked with, including my brother, who promptly told my overly nosy and devout, Southern Baptist parents. I did enough damage control to avoid a major incident, but we learned a valuable lesson that day. We appreciate the single males who are "in" the lifestyle. Men could get laid a lot more if they'd just learn not to kiss and tell.

[JustDave 15]

Lots of great insight in this thread. Apparently my wife is not alone in her thinking. I've been doing alot reading in regards to womens sexuality and it doesn't appear my wifes views are out of the norm. Most of the magazines and articles that I have read say that women typically associate sex with love. Apparently the women who have gotten into swinging have overcome that association. I'll give it some time and bring up the topic again in the future, or maybe my wife will beat me to the punch. I'm also going to pickup one of the recommended books to gain additional knowledge and insight for myself and maybe share it with her.

[iapr 24]

JustDave said:

Lots of great insight in this thread. Apparently my wife is not alone in her thinking. I've been doing a lot reading in regards to women's sexuality and it doesn't appear my wife's views are out of the norm. Most of the magazines and articles that I have read say that women typically associate sex with love. Apparently the women who have gotten into swinging have overcome that association. I'll give it some time and bring up the topic again in the future, or maybe my wife will beat me to the punch. I'm also going to pickup one of the recommended books to gain additional knowledge and insight for myself and maybe share it with her.

 

Sometimes it is all in the approach and all a matter of perspective. I believe it is a fundamental truth that women do associate sex and love more than men and I think some of that is innate and some of that is cultural conditioning and expectation. However I do disagree somewhat with your statement above that swinging wives have overcome that association. What I think takes place at times is just a shift in perspective of what sex is and what the roles of other people are in swinging encounter. They are still associating love and sex but the association is with their partner and not with their playmates. As long as the focus is on the primary relationship and all swinging activity relates to and is focused on the primary relationship they can be ok with that.

 

What I mean by that is women associate sex with love and intimacy and relationships and they have been socialized to see the only appropriate form of sexual expression is through monogamy and marriage. So if one were to suggest swinging in terms of focusing on having sex with other people many if not darn near all wives are going have a knee-jerk negative reaction. Along with that even if one were to somehow talk his partner into giving it a try as long as the focus is on a goal of having sex with others the female is almost always going to view the whole thing negatively and either have some kind of break down with the whole thing or just make a half-hearted attempt and throw in the towel at the first sign of difficulty.

 

So as I said it is all a matter of approach and perspective. If you work within the framework of the female perspective and put the emphasis and focus of the experience into the context of primary relationship and view it as part of the sexual and erotic experience and sexual dynamic of the couple the result may be much more positive.

 

So to try and word that more plainly, do not emphasize the lifestyle as an opportunity to screw other people but rather view it as an opportunity to explore greater depths of intimacy, pleasure and excitement as part of your marital sexual dynamic. In other words you two are still making love with each other and it is still your experience as a couple the only difference there is another person or two or ten that are there to provide the two of you with some extra stimulation and excitement.

 

What can happen when this takes place is the female half still has her primary relationship intact and that is where the trust and intimacy and love etc is focused but now she is allowed by her partner and herself to allow herself to be pleasured by others in a safe and accepting environment. Then once that does happen in that manner and she realizes that she enjoyed the attention and the pleasure but still has her primary relationship intact, and realizes that she did not fall in love with another man in the process and that her partner did not fall in love with another woman then she realizes that she can in fact enjoy sexual contact with other people in a recreational environment.

 

When that realization hits home that she can have the best of both worlds the genie is often out of the bottle. There are some old sayings in swinging that are true. One is it is the man that drags the wife to her first swinging party and then has to drag her home at the end of the night. And another is it is man that gets the couple into swinging but it is the wife that keeps them in it. For many women it is the first time in their lives that they have been allowed by others and allowed by themselves to actually enjoy sex just simply for the pleasure of it.

 

Hope this helps.

[JustDave 15]

iapr said:

Sometimes it is all in the approach and all a matter of perspective...

 

Very insightful. Thank you.