Not sure what she means? Is she cheating with him?

[titanicmale 15]

Long time reader. Married about 10 years, in the lifestyle a few years. Started with a MFM, and he tried to steal her away and she almost left. We decided to stick with couples and it is happening again. We went from her saying she is totally in love with me, for the first time can see us getting old together, and never happier to a very bad place all within a week. I told her we can't fix us if she continues to talk with him. What do you think and what do the following really mean:

1. "It's not that I don't love you."

2. "I love you, but I'm not sure I'm in love with you."

3. "He and I have a connection."

4. She doesn't want to give up his "friendship".

[havefuninsun 122]

I feel for you, buddy. This is not a good situation. It sounds like to me she's swinging for the WRONG reasons ... she's getting emotionally attached, which means she's missing something emotionally at home. Sorry to be blunt and honest, but if you don't want to lose your wife, you need to step in with a heavy hand and end the relationship with the other couple and have a talk with the other husband man-to-man and ask him not to contact your wife anymore.

 

She is playing with fire.

[richdon03 31]

I feel for you, buddy. This is not a good situation. It sounds like to me she's swinging for the WRONG reasons ... she's getting emotionally attached, which means she's missing something emotionally at home. Sorry to be blunt and honest, but if you don't want to lose your wife, you need to step in with a heavy hand and end the relationship with the other couple and have a talk with the other husband man-to-man and ask him not to contact your wife anymore.

 

She is playing with fire.

 

I agree. I had to double-check the length of your relationship after I read her comments. These are the things you hear in a 3 or 4 month relationship that's just not working out. She's not looking for sex. She's looking for something else. I wish you the best of luck.

[titanicmale 15]

I thought it ended last week. I have not contacted the other couple. They (both) have contacted my wife, but not me, as I just found out.

 

I told my wife when I found out they were still talking that it needed to stop immediately. She controls her actions. If he calls my wife, she doesn't have to talk to him. I know this is a problem between my wife and me. I value the opinions given and agree. Do you really think I need to talk to him after I have told my wife that the relationship needs to end?

 

Thank you!!

[havefuninsun 122]

titanicmale said:

I thought it ended last week. I have not contacted the other couple. They (both) have contacted my wife, but not me, as I just found out.

 

I told my wife when I found out they were still talking that it needed to stop immediately. She controls her actions. If he calls my wife, she doesn't have to talk to him. I know this is a problem between my wife and me. I value the opinions given and agree. Do you really think I need to talk to him after I have told my wife that the relationship needs to end?

 

Thank you!!

 

YES -- talk to him! You're right; ultimately, your wife is responsible for her own actions, but this couples needs to hear from YOU that you would appreciate their not contacting her anymore, and why. If they're your typical swinging couple, they will not be interested in any drama, and this situation SMELLS of drama getting ready to happen. They will not want any part of it; they may even be dismayed to learn of her feelings for him. You'll be doing them a big favor.

 

Good luck. I wish you guys my very best.

[richdon03 31]

You also might want to stop with the swinging until you address your private issues. Sounds like she's a series of accidents waiting to happen. If I were in your shoes I would find it very hard to trust her. My heart goes out to you.

[telly2 15]

I agree, talk to him it is your marriage, but also his, not to say he is ready to leave, but she could make their lives very difficult. I would want to know what is going on between Mr. T, and a playmate, and visa versa. All our convo's are logged so that we can each read what the other is up to. So on that note, there is ways to find out what is going on.

 

As for your relationship, I think a counselor would be a good idea, something is going wrong, and swinging is not going to help it. You have been together for 10 yrs, and now this is the second playmate she attaches herself to, there is definitely something very wrong. I know from our own experience, we had a similar situation in the beginning 10yrs ago, but that was quickly rectified by cutting contact immediately.

 

So from my point of view, you cut contact immediately, by contacting them, i know this will be difficult from an ego point of view, no one wants to admit that there is an issue in their marriage. And then talk to your wife, and see if she would go to a counselor to fit what is wrong.

 

Best of luck and i hope all works out for you.

Chantal

[ohash01 20]

You asked about the meanings of the things she said...so I'll give you MY take on it without knowing the ENTIRE situation.

 

1. "It's not that I don't love you."

- She probably followed this with a "But I have/want/need to...(fill in the blank). She is attempting to justify what is about to come out of her mouth and what she's been doing.

 

2. "I love you, but I'm not sure I'm in love with you."

-This is a phrase commonly used by those who think they have found the greener grass on the other side of the fence. Yeah, she still KNOWS in her head that she loves you, but someone else is making her heart race/palms sweat/stomach tingle, so she's getting confused. She's think "OH!...it will be SOO much better with him." When really, it probably won't be.

 

3. "He and I have a connection."

Yes...they do...they swing together and are probably friends and possibly have romantic feelings towards one another. However - her feeling of connection are amplified by something she perhaps once got from you, but isn't getting anymore. I don't mean sexually. I mean emotionally. With this phrase she is really shouting "WHERE DID OUR CONNECTION GO?!?!"

 

4. She doesn't want to give up his "friendship".

-Now this is the king of her ridiculous statements. They can BE friends. Well - they COULD have been. Now it's probably gone too far. Everyone in their lifetime will have to give up a friend that isn't "good for them". She should probably realize he is not good for her and drop him like a bad habit. She really means she doesn't want to give up his sex and whatever kind of weird emotional thing they have going.

 

Those are just my views on her statements. I agree with the others when they say you should talk to the husband, but why not talk to the husband and the wife? She MAY not know about it. Then you better believe she'd be working as hard as you to get them in check. HOWEVER - getting them "in check" isn't good enough. Sit down and talk to your wife. I know it will be hard, but try to do so without shouting and name calling and saying things you can't take back. Ask her what she needs from YOU. Ask her what you can do to bring back the connection and the partnership and the respect. Then if you decide you want to save this marriage - attempt to do those things. And ask her for what you need too! 2-way street, my friend.

[WesternSwing 504]

I hate to say it, but it sounds like your wife already has one foot out the door and she is just afraid to step completely over the threshold. You two need to get some professional counseling and figure out where you want this relationship to go.

 

Your marriage was not on solid ground when you started swinging and that just opened-up the door for others to walk through and fulfill needs not being met within the marriage.

 

Plus, the other guy is new and exciting. She is probably not even thinking straight because the hormones are drowning out all other reason. This other guy is fantasy and seems different from the life she has. In reality it would be the same if not worse if she left. In short she is confusing lust with love.

 

Like I said, go to professional counseling and start working on your relationship.

 

And yes, if she is serious about fixing your relationship I feel she has to completely cut-off contact with this other guy. You two should also get completely out of the lifestyle.

[Spoomonkey 421]

I'll take a shot...

 

titanicmale said:

1. "It's not that I don't love you."

 

She is prepping you here for her very wonky definition of what love is. For her, it is little more than a word that softens the blow for her to say something else. It would be just as empty if a judge said at the end of a trial, "It's not that I don't love you, but I think twenty-five to life is just best for all concerned."

 

What she is saying here is that you must be prepared to take everything she says from this point on without argument and without discussion. No matter what she says next, whether she tells you she has neutered your dog to slept with the mailman it is all in spite of the fact that she really does love you...

 

Or, at least, it makes her feel better to say she does...

 

titanicmale said:

2. "I love you, but I'm not sure I'm in love with you."

 

Translation: "My approach to serious, romantic love is to spout meaningless cliché." It might mean that she spends to much time at this site.

 

For her, there is definitely two distinct types of love - the kind you say you are in to soften arguments and the kind that makes your junk gooey. Sadly, neither is really love - and she is either just dancing around the subject or she is sincerely not mature enough to really say what she is thinking.

 

Love, but not in love? Shit, but not shat...

 

 

titanicmale said:

3. "He and I have a connection."

 

"He makes my junk gooey..."

 

Frankly, it sounds like she was looking for an excuse to jump ship and this guy is only a dick-bearing version of a convenient excuse. And what this says to me, based on what else you have written is that she would have just as likely had a connection with a bag of cat nip - just as long as she didn't have to reach any farther than her "cliché-a-day" desk calendar to discuss what it really bugging her...

 

So maybe what she is really saying is, "he is not really the reason I am drifting away from you, it is just easier for me to say that he is rather than actually dig deep, be honest, and tell you what has been bothering me for some time."

 

She might also be saying, "I am emotionally stunted and a relational coward. I want things between us to dissolve - and instead of telling you why or admitting where I might have screwed up - I am going to put the blame on dick-bearer over there."

 

titanicmale said:

4. She doesn't want to give up his "friendship".

 

"The fact that he makes my junk gooey trumps everything we might have had for however many years."

 

She doesn't want to give up his friendship, but she is willing to give up her marriage? In the words of the Guinness guys, "Brilliant!"

 

Hell - I don't want to give up chocolate, but it makes me farty. Sometimes in life you have to sacrifice. And I don't think marriage should have to be a matter of "sacrifice" but she sure is willing to toss it up on the altar for a little "friendship".

 

I agree with what everyone has said - counseling. You need to get her to talk about what it is that is bugging her; just what is it that is eating through your marriage? I am not saying that it will or should save it - sometimes marriages simply don't work - but I am saying that at the very least it will give you the chance to have her tell you the truth - and not just spout the kind of bullshit that - for most of us - was tired and over-used by the time we reached tenth grade...

[bigjoehd 26]

titanicmale said:

What do you think and what do the following really mean:

1. "It's not that I don't love you."

2. "I love you, but I'm not sure I'm in love with you."

3. "He and I have a connection."

4. She doesn't want to give up his "friendship".

 

I hate to say it but it sounds to me like your wife is searching for a replacement for you,if it happened once I'd say her emotions were just running wild but this is happening again & this time with a couple.

 

You should take a closer look at the questions you asked here & also look at the things she has said to you about this other man,each of the things she said to you about this man are the kiss of death to a relationship. These type problems are not easily corrected & swinging is the worst possible thing either of you could do,if your marriage is in trouble swinging will not save it but it will cause drama as you can see.

 

Asking her to stop seeing or talking with this man will only cause her to have hard feelings against you & she wont stop until she see's fit,also from reading about how you described her actions in the first MFM & now in this deal telling her to stop all contact will only lead her to go underground & start sneaking around, if i were you I'd take a good look at where my relationship is going with her & also look at where it's been.

 

I'm not of the belief that marriage counseling is worth a grain of salt ,she knows how you feel about all of this & makes excuses for her actions ,your wife needs to grow up & start acting like an adult instead of a schoolgirl who craves the attention & excitement of starting a new relationship,if i were in your place I'd tell her exactly how she made me feel by doing this stuff & how her unwillingness to stop continues to make me feel horrible then if she continues with all of this then you know where you stand with her.

[mandw2 15]

I am new to this site and lifestyle, but I'll go ahead and jump in.

 

I don't agree that your wife is trying to replace you or that she has one foot out the door. It is my guess that you are a wonderful husband, her best friend, a good provider, and if kids are involved, a good dad. If this were not the case, she would have already left. I do believe she is trying to fill a void that is not being filled at home.

 

Communication is going to be the key to moving from this dark place. I agree a counselor could offer non-bias opinions and in-site, but you should find someone who supports the swinger lifestyle or it may be more destructive then good.

 

She has given you two very valuable pieces of information:

She "connects" with this other person/couple. HOW do they connect? Do they share the same fantasies, desires? Is she more comfortable discussing her fantasies with this other couple, because she does not want to risk rejection from you, the person she needs acceptance from the most?

 

She "does not want to loose the friendship" of this other person/couple. Does she enjoy the attention of someone "new". Someone other than her husband who "has" to tell her she is beautiful. Do they share other interests outside of sex?

 

I agree you need to tell this other couple to leave your wife alone. And you should tell your wife you would like to stop swinging until you are in a better place in your marriage. It will be my guess that she will feel trapped and that you are trying to control her. Your job will be to let her feel these feelings, but at the same time listen to her about WHY she feels trapped. What was it about this other person/couple that was so enticing to her? Then work to fill that void yourself.

 

Try to remember when you were dating and first married. You both made a huge effort to please the other, to look nice, to do things that interested your mate. After 10 years of marriage it is easy to slip into a comfortable rut of doing the minimal. Try and tap back into what worked for you both in the beginning. Love notes, flowers for no reason, spontaneous weekend trips, special evenings out. Take her shopping, select outfits you would like to see her in. While most men would rather place hot pokers in their eyes instead of shopping, the dressing room can be a very erotic place and excellent foreplay. In a bit, she should start to do special things for you, just as she did when you were first married.

 

Try and fulfill as much of her fantasies as you can. Create an environment in which she feels safe sharing her desires, trusting you not to judge her. If she has a fantasy that really does not do it for you, when your marriage is in a better place, arrange for the fantasy to happen either with or without you, stressing your desire for her happiness.

 

Best of luck to you. With some work, you will be able to move forward from this place and enjoy each other again.

[titanicmale 15]

WOW!! Great advice. When I told her to stop talking to him and her, she said I was boxing her into a corner and pushing her away. She talked with both of them that same day. She wants to be his friend and not lose that. I told her she valued his "friendship"ore than our marrige and she used all the same words and arguments she used with the single maleof why I was unfair to take away her friend. Yes, we stopped swinging (and I don't think I will ever again).

[mandw2 15]

You are off to a good start by communicating. I know your feelings are pretty raw and you most likely feel threatened by this couple, but try and phrase your comments as "I feel you are putting this friendship before me" instead of telling her she is doing it. She cannot discount your feelings, but she can feel as if you are attacking her and become defensive if you are telling her she is doing something. Encourage her to talk about her "friends" and what makes them so special to her. She should reveal to you where the void is in her life and how you can fill it. It is wonderful that you both have stopped swinging for now. I believe it a good step to healing. However, try and reserve your feelings of never wanting to do this again until you are in a better place with your marriage. It is great to say you want to hold off for now, but she might feel as if you are trying to "punish" her by telling her you will never do this again.

 

Ok, I will step down from my psychobabble soap box.

 

Best of luck to you.

[titanicmale 15]

I wrote a long update, but don't know what happened to it. Suffice it to say, she freaked when I suggested the four of us talk and things are status quo. All the different perspectives helped me to step back and see things from the outside. That hit me like a ton of bricks. Thanks to all I'm in a better place. She said I deserve better than her.

 

CURIOUS? Any other advice?

[havefuninsun 122]

titanicmale said:

I wrote a long update, but don't know what happened to it. Suffice it to say, she freaked when I suggested the four of us talk and things are status quo. All the different perspectives helped me to step back and see things from the outside. That hit me like a ton of bricks. Thanks to all I'm in a better place. She said I deserve better than her.

 

CURIOUS? Any other advice?

 

So have you had an opportunity to talk to the other couple at all?

[Spoomonkey 421]

titanicmale said:

She said I deserve better than her.

 

How magnanimous...

 

I am sure she doesn't quite realize how very right she just may be.

 

My advice - step away from, swinging; step away from this couple; get counseling to find out what her core issues are; and when you discover those things allow yourself to be hurt, move on and find better...

[titanicmale 15]

I asked her why can't the four of us sit down and talk. She said "no" and if I tried to contact them, she would "destroy" me. Thanks all for the advice. Spoo-witty and wise. I packed a bag and left.

[titanicmale 15]

Update: My dad gave me the advice to only say "things didn't work out". Don't say anything bad. I will follow that advice fom now on. I am seeing a couselor. He knows everything. I am feeling better every day.

 

As to the thing I thought could destroy me, I came clean with everyone I needed to. Actually it worked out better than I could have imagined. What a burden lifted off my shoulders. Let the truth set you free!!!

 

To those friends I hurt along the way, I can't say sorry enough. To those friends that helped along the way, including here, THANK YOU!!!!!

[MoonLightKiss 28]

titanic, I am so sorry to hear of the split. I just came across this thread, and was reading up and thought I would share what happened to me and my husband.

 

Spoo, I believe hit the nail on the head with the definition of her comments. Reading your post I thought that perhaps my husband was talking about our marraige as it used to be a few years ago. I went to him and asked him if it was him just to be sure. But I used those same lines nearly 5 years ago, when I had a "friend" that I also happened to be cheating with. When my husband sat down with me and told me that I was to stop communicating with this friend immediately (he suspected at the time but was not sure) I put up a damn good fight.

 

Then my husband did the one thing I am truly grateful for. He packed a bag, set it by the door and said "Either you call tommorrow and get us in to see a counselor, or when I leave for work and take this bag with me, I won't be back. I love you, I love our children, I love our marraige, BUT I DESERVE BETTER." Next day, found a counselor, and over the next several months changed counselors in order to find the right one for us. We did and went to him for a year. We found the core root of our problem. For us it was I was self-destructive. I did not believe that I deserved to be happy.

 

We fixed our marraige and are happier now than most we know. It took a lot of blood, sweat, work, searching for our deepest secrets and fears, and yes a whole lot of tears. But it was worth it. But I had to be willing to do the work. It doesn't sound as if your wife was willing to do the work. Yes, at the time I was willing to do the work for the sake of our children. Now I do the work for ME. Sometimes marraiges fail, because one or the other isn't willing to work for it. So in other words, chin up, and don't let it get you down. Whether you and your wife end up back together or divorced, I do not know, but things have a funny way of working out for the best.

 

All my best wishes,

MLK

[titanicmale 15]

MLK, you wrote

Quote

"For us it was I was self-destructive. I did not believe that I deserved to be happy."

 

When she said to me that "you deserve better than me", I told her "I deserved a better you". Unfortunately, this feel on a closed mind. I'm happy for you that you realized you deserve to be happy. I am not as sure as the others above that one day she will realize what she lost.

 

By the way, the abyss is a cold, dark, highly pressurized place from which I am coming out of.

[djjwp 129]

Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. During the breakup, I thought the world would end and I was miserable. I then found wife #2 after 4 months of feeling sorry for myself and have been ecstatic every since. I was so busy watching the door that just closed on me that I was not seeing the one that opened for me. Best thing I can tell you is look forward, not back. If you have kids, take care of them best you can and start looking for a new mate, if you are worth you salt, there are plenty out there.

 

I also can’t begin to tell you the satisfaction I got when my son told me the ex had admitted to a friend that she had screwed up losing me. I look at her now and then my current wife and just smile.

[titanicmale 15]

Update: It is always interesting to read how things are turning out, so I thought I would also. The wife of the other couple called me in a panic. She is worried sick with what's been going on. Can't sleep. Can't eat. She asked me what I knew. I told her that I had been threatened that if I talked with either her or her husband that I would be "destroyed" (innocents would be hurt). She begged me to tell her so I told her what I knew. She told them (her husband and my Ex) she talked to me and the threats were made good by my EX. Doing damage control, but glad I'm done with them all. Hindsight:Couples need to have a very strong love and respect for one another or swinging will help destroy the relationship.

[sereneiders 263]

What do you think and what do the following really mean:

1. "It's not that I don't love you."

2. "I love you, but I'm not sure I'm in love with you."

3. "He and I have a connection."

4. She doesn't want to give up his "friendship".

 

IMO, the proper question would be, what does this mean to someone (you, her).

 

1, 3 and 4 are feelings I already had without disturbing my marriage... just because my wife already had the same feelings too, without disturbing our marriage.

 

Those are ways to express the feelings, and to analyze the feelings, that you're likely to find out in a polyamorous/poly-friendly someone's mindset.

 

What would worry me (someone with a poly-friendly mindset) is the 2nd statement, understaning it as "the love/tender feelings for you didn't change, the thrill and the atraction (currently) isn't the same".

 

I think the problem comes not from your wife's and your feelings, but from the different ways you have to think of them, and the expectations about your relationship.

 

It seem a mistake to start swinging without knowing each other expectations and mindsetting enough as to foresight this sort of problem could bring up, however, there's no reason to suspect there is some "evilness" nor a "selfinesh" involved from none of you two... You two are just more different than what you think.

[curiousagain 326]

titanicmale said:

Update:It is always interesting to read how things are turning out, so I thought I would also. The wife of the other couple called me in a panic. She is worried sick with what's been going on. Can't sleep. Can't eat. She asked me what I knew. I told her that I had been threatened that if I talked with either her or her husband that I would be "destroyed" (innocents would be hurt). She begged me to tell her so I told her what I knew. She told them (her husband and my Ex) she talked to me and the threats were made good by my EX. Doing damage control, but glad I'm done with them all. Hindsight:Couples need to have a very strong love and respect for one another or swinging will help destroy the relationship.

 

Hurting innocents to try to hurt you...You are much better off without her. Hang tuff, it does get better.

[Titanicfriend 15]

Everything happens for a reason.........your new partner is waiting somewhere and you will appreciate her even more with the experiences you've just made.

 

Good luck to you and hold your head above the water!

[bigjoehd 26]

titanicmale said:

She begged me to tell her so I told her what I knew. She told them (her husband and my Ex) she talked to me and the threats were made good by my EX.

 

My god man what kind of monster were you living with, you are way better off without that person in your life.