Nature or Nurture?

My wife and I have been married over 20 years and have a super solid relationship. She had a good number of partners and experiences when we met, whereas I was a serial monogamist who had only a couple partners ever. After years of discussion we finally made the leap and visited a club and have now had a few experiences. I’ve had an incredible time in the moment, but have had a couple freak outs days afterwards. We’ve been adjusting rules and expectations as needed and things seem to be going well. My wife never had a need to connect sex and feelings, whereas that is all I’ve ever known. At my core, I’m a monogamous person. I’ve never had a strong desire to have sex with another woman, but I’ve really enjoyed the fun and excitement we’ve been experiencing.

So what about everyone else? Has non monogamy been your “default setting”, or was it a learned behavior? Can you be successful in the LS if you aren’t a non-monogamous person by default?

Can you be successful in the LS if you aren’t a non-monogamous person by default?

Yes. My wife and I are in love and married to each other. That's all that matters. The sex is just mutual fun.

From the time I was in my early twenties, I and my SOs have had our experiences in what has come to be known as the LifeStyle. I never had any problems with it, I was very accepting of it.

There was a time when I was monogamish for over twenty years. I didn't miss what I didn't have, but later jumped back into it with both feet.

You ask, "Can you be successful in the LS if you aren’t a non-monogamous person by default?" I wouldn't know. But it seems to me that if you don't like lobster you probably shouldn't be ordering it.

I wouldn't know. But it seems to me that if you don't like lobster you probably shouldn't be ordering it.

I hear what you're saying. I'm definitely enjoying our experiences and I'm anxious to explore more, but at the same time it's a lot like learning a foreign language. I've never felt constrained by monogamy, but I love sex and new sexual experiences. I'm still wondering if I'll manage to become fluent. Time will tell...

"So what about everyone else? Has non monogamy been your “default setting”, or was it a learned behavior? Can you be successful in the LS if you aren’t a non-monogamous person by default? "

Each of us were serial monogamists for our entire lives. When we met we were for 40 years "monogamists" in the way the term is used here. If for some reason we stopped the LS portion of our lives I would, and I believe she would, have no problems returning to that way of living. So, in the way you meant it our default is monogamist.

Now I would like to address the word monogamist itself, its actual meaning , and how most define marriage.

1. Mono gameo means I marry one or I am married to one.

2. Many define marriage as mutually exclusive sex primarily, with attached items like finances and raising children. For many though the sex issue is the defining issue.

1a. As for the two of us, we still consider ourselves monogamist. We each have exactly one spouse.

2a. Exclusive sex had a place for a while in our earlier years, while raising children and doing all the things that people do in their 30-40 year vanilla lives. Doing those things and maintaining the "US" in the world was a full time job.

Other people would have been an overload if allowed to close. Therefore the Vanilla/PTA/Church framework was firmly the limit.

As we matured the importance we attached to exclusive sex diminished and our free time for closer relationships increased.

What defines marriage for us is Trust, Loyalty, Openness, Transparency and a clear assurance that we each have the others back. Enjoying some pleasure with others has no bearing on marriage as we live it.

We seek out couples who have a similar perspective. So far they have not been in short supply.

Our main friends now are companions in many ways . Sex is just one of the things in the mix.

We went to the club again this week. Saw some sexy things, enjoyed the vibe, had some pretty clear positive signals from the couple we played with last time, and at some point I just realized that I don't have any interest in having sex with anyone besides my wife. We talked about it at length and she has been very understanding. I still want to keep going to the club, as I love public sex and the crazy sexual energy there, but straight up swapping partners just doesn't do anything for me. I'll never say "never", but for now, it's definitely off the table...

The good thing is that there's a lot of other sexual experiences to be had, and a lot of things to explore. The thought of going to the club without finding someone to have sex with is almost "freeing" in a way. I'm looking forward to going back.

So as far as my original question - I'm going to say that for me at least,no amount of nurture would overcome my nature. I'm just a monogamous person. Commitment and monogamy have always just come very easily to me, and it's just the way I'm wired. Oh well - there are plenty of other sex adventures to be had!

Swinging is NOT for everyone. That is not a judgement of the OP's feelings, just an observation. Im impressed that you looked into this hobby and decided it wasn't for you at this time. I am a bit concerned about continued club visits however. In the heat of the moment, surrounded by highly erotic activities, things can happen and then the pattern of "freak outs" may continue. That would likely not be very good for your relationship. If you've decided that swinging is not for you perhaps walking away is the best option. Returning to the club would be what Sister Mary Claire called "an occasion for sin". That's something she said we should avoid!

We have actually been 3 times. First visit we had some really wild adventures and it was awesome in the moment but I had a strong emotional reaction after the fact. The second visit we had a very pleasant full swap. I did not have any emotional issues afterwards and it was a perfectly nice time. On our third trip we did some public play, but no swapping. It was then that I realized that I really didn't want to pursue swapping. It doesn't excite me nearly as much as having sex with my wife does. 23 years in and she's the hottest woman I've ever met. I thought that a new partner would be a huge turn on, but it didn't do much for me. If we somehow stumble into a scenario that just seems perfect, we might go for it, but it's not something we will be actively pursuing.

My wife has been super supportive of me deciding this just wasn't for me and we're both totally interested in going back and exploring more. Public sex, public nudity,parallel play, kink... There's a lot that turns us both on that is appropriate at the club but doesn't fall into the full swap scenario.

swapping. It doesn't excite me nearly as much as having sex with my wife does. 23 years in and she's the hottest woman I've ever met. .

So, are you still open to letting your wife be nonmonogamous? Do you enjoy watching your wife play with other partners? Do you enjoy sloppy seconds? That could make "the hottest woman you've ever met" even hotter.

No, We only play together. I have watched her with other men and it turned me on in the moment, but the emotional aftermath was really shitty. I *really* like showing her off, and I love when she’s walking around the club naked, but I’ve learned that actual sex is just more than I can handle. Lucky for me, she has been super understanding.

I originally met my wife(kitten) at my first ever LS experience. It was a MMF threesome. So it comes more natural for us than most. I do very much enjoy watching her play with others, male or female. I find I would rather watch her than play myself. When I was younger I never thought I would feel this way about anyone but its the bond that we have with each other that makes it easy. We do only play together that is our main rule.

... I *really* like showing her off, and I love when she’s walking around the club naked, but I’ve learned that actual sex is just more than I can handle...

Your likes and dislikes are different, but so what? Just approach it differently. Be there when she being admired naked, but since she "never had a need to connect sex and feelings," allow her to play on her own, with or without telling you about it, your choice.

You'll also find that your feelings will change over time, and "the emotional aftermath" becomes pleasurable.

I originally met my wife(kitten) at my first ever LS experience. It was a MMF threesome.

Ok, that's unusual. "so how did you two meet?" "Well, it goes like this...."

I've a relative who is now married. I asked he and his wife once how they met. They looked at each other with a bit of an uncomfortable smile (oxymoron there...) and then he said "We'd rather not say". Playdar went off big time...

So it comes more natural for us than most. I do very much enjoy watching her play with others, male or female. I find I would rather watch her than play myself. When I was younger I never thought I would feel this way about anyone but its the bond that we have with each other that makes it easy. We do only play together that is our main rule.

When I was 19/20, I had a girlfriend who went to see her gynecologist. Male gynecologist. This really bothered me. I know it's stupid, but at the time it really, really bothered me. The idea of another man looking at my naked girlfriend...just got me. I got over it of course, but coming from that I never would have expected to feel as I do now. I really, really enjoy watching my wife have sex with other men. I've puzzled over this for a long time when we first got into swinging but of course never figured it out. I gave up trying. I just enjoy it. There's just something very exciting about watching another man's cock slide in and out of your wife.

.. he said "We'd rather not say"..

If it were swinging, he would have said "a party." It was probably rehab, or one was in prison. Or maybe a political event that would make you think less of them.

... When I was 19/20, I had a girlfriend who went to see her gynecologist. Male gynecologist. This really bothered me. I know it's stupid, but at the time it really, really bothered me. The idea of another man looking at my naked girlfriend...just got me...

Ha, almost the exact same thing happened to me, except she wanted me to go along with her, including into the exam room. At the time it was one of the weirdest experiences of my life. Short version: The nurse sent us into the exam room and my girlfriend just took off her clothes and sat on the table. The doctor came in and immediately went back out. The nurse came back in and told her to put the gown on. The doctor comes back in and eventually tells her to put her feet in the stirrups, and puts that tent thing up over her knees before he starts to examine her. My girlfriend asks what it was for, and he said "privacy." She says "Whose privacy? It's me down there. You don't want me to see you?" He removes the tent.

After a quick exam, but while the plastic spatula thing was still in there, the doc invites me over to take a look inside. He made it sound as if I was looking at the Eighth Wonder of the World. He said everything was healthy, but the only thing I remember was that it was really pink and it wasn't sexy, it was like looking down her esophagus.

Ha, almost the exact same thing happened to me, except she wanted me to go along with her, including into the exam room. At the time it was one of the weirdest experiences of my life. Short version: The nurse sent us into the exam room and my girlfriend just took off her clothes and sat on the table. The doctor came in and immediately went back out. The nurse came back in and told her to put the gown on. The doctor comes back in and eventually tells her to put her feet in the stirrups, and puts that tent thing up over her knees before he starts to examine her. My girlfriend asks what it was for, and he said "privacy." She says "Whose privacy? It's me down there. You don't want me to see you?" He removes the tent.

 

After a quick exam, but while the plastic spatula thing was still in there, the doc invites me over to take a look inside. He made it sound as if I was looking at the Eighth Wonder of the World. He said everything was healthy, but the only thing I remember was that it was really pink and it wasn't sexy, it was like looking down her esophagus.

You write hysterically

Tangential; makes me think of porn images that I think of as "biology shots"; nothing sexy about them, just "here's my genitalia. See the section in the textbook below to read a full description." Uhg.

Another tangential; I wonder if for male gynecologists it all gets boring after some time, and they have a difficult time getting aroused when in the presence of his own girlfriend/wife.

... Another tangential; I wonder if for male gynecologists it all gets boring after some time, and they have a difficult time getting aroused when in the presence of his own girlfriend/wife.

Two things to add to the story. That girlfriend was from France, so few inhibitions to begin with about being naked. And she was olive skinned, a bit dark with black hair, dark nipples and inner labia. That made the "pink" all the more dramatic. A nonsexual, sexual experience that was burned into my young brain. She was very nonchalant about it.

This is a complicated topic but a good thread. I wonder about it often enough.

My high school sweetheart and I used to fool around a few times with those singles lines, masturbating each other while we had phone sex with strangers. It just seemed like fun experimentation. After we parted ways but still fooled around, she asked me I'd mind if she had sex with the mutual friend who had introduced us but had always been crazy about her, just to see what it was like. I was surprised that I didn't and encouraged her to go for it. Instead, she ended up having sex with another friend of his in the shower and gave me a great blowjob a couple weeks later telling me about it.

The signs about what I was into were always there, but it didn't really click.

The signs about what I was into were always there, but it didn't really click.

Yeah, I probably should have known something was going on 40+ years ago when during my first soft swing I was more turned on by watching my wife masturbate the other husband to orgasm then I was kissing and fingering the other wife.

The signs were there for me too East. About 30 years ago, I was in patrol and was checking an isolated section of a park on a beautiful fall day in Pa. I was actually looking for a quiet place to do some reports. It was early afternoon, it was sunny, the trees were orange and red and just starting to shed their leaves. Those of you who live in the Northeast know exactly the kind of day Im describing.

I saw what I thought to be an abandoned car in a parking lot at the dead end of an access road. I wasn't quite and approached directly behind the car. As I got out of my black and white, I could see the there was someone in the drivers seat which was almost fully reclined. I expected nothing more than some guy drinking a beer or smoking a joint. So I was completely amazed as I got close to the open drivers window to see a naked 40-something blond with after market boobs, hard nipples and a tattoo on her thigh, riding a guy whose pants were probably around his ankles. She must have heard me walk up, I hadn't said a word to this point. Her eyes met mine and she mouthed the word "wait", rotated her hips and ass (it was a truly fine one)moaned and promptly came hard on his dick all the while keeping eye contact with me. She winked and whispered "thank you", at which point he opened his eyes and saw me standing there with a huge smile. He yelled "oh shit", pushed her part way off of him and came all over his steering wheel.

I asked them both for ID after she slid off him and over to the passenger side. He didn't know what to do first, he said "oh shit, oh shit, oh SHIT" over and over again as he fumbled with his pants while trying to wipe his semen off his wheel and dash. She never bothered to cover up, she merely got her drivers license from her purse and handed it to me with a knowing smile and said, "here ya go Officer, and really, thank you". He eventually found his license and tried to hand it to me with his apparently quite sticky fingers. I handed hers back, told him to keep his and suggested that they get dressed and get a room. Then I thanked them for making my day and drove off.

My wife (now ex) was incredibly surprised when I came home from work and immediately pushed her into the bedroom in spite of the kids being in the living room watching He-man and She-ra. She was less than happy later when I explained why I was so fired up at the end of a shift. That incident is among the best memories I have from that otherwise generally unpleasant career.

10 years later I had been dating Mrs Doc for a short time and she and I had started to discuss swinging at length. I related this story to her and she surprised me by wanting to go to the same park to see if we could get caught too. After that, we started to go to clubs initially just to watch and be watched and the rest, well, the rest is history!!

Those of you who live in the Northeast know exactly the kind of day Im describing.

Having grown up in the northeast, yep!

... with after market boobs,...

Never heard it put that way before. Rather hysterical

10 years later I had been dating Mrs Doc for a short time and she and I had started to discuss swinging at length. I related this story to her and she surprised me by wanting to go to the same park to see if we could get caught too. After that, we started to go to clubs initially just to watch and be watched and the rest, well, the rest is history!!

Ha! Well, you knew what you were getting into when Mrs. Doc said that, especially contrasted with how your then-wife responded after she found out what had happened on your patrol! Interesting juxtaposition.

My wife coined the term 'after market accessories' referring to someone having had a boob job. At least I've never heard it from anyone else. She's a surprising woman and can be an absolute hoot!

The signs were there for me too East. About 30 years ago, I was in patrol and was checking an isolated section of a park on a beautiful fall day in Pa. I was actually looking for a quiet place to do some reports. It was early afternoon, it was sunny, the trees were orange and red and just starting to shed their leaves. Those of you who live in the Northeast know exactly the kind of day Im describing.

 

I saw what I thought to be an abandoned car in a parking lot at the dead end of an access road. I wasn't quite and approached directly behind the car. As I got out of my black and white, I could see the there was someone in the drivers seat which was almost fully reclined. I expected nothing more than some guy drinking a beer or smoking a joint. So I was completely amazed as I got close to the open drivers window to see a naked 40-something blond with after market boobs, hard nipples and a tattoo on her thigh, riding a guy whose pants were probably around his ankles. She must have heard me walk up, I hadn't said a word to this point. Her eyes met mine and she mouthed the word "wait", rotated her hips and ass (it was a truly fine one)moaned and promptly came hard on his dick all the while keeping eye contact with me. She winked and whispered "thank you", at which point he opened his eyes and saw me standing there with a huge smile. He yelled "oh shit", pushed her part way off of him and came all over his steering wheel.

 

I asked them both for ID after she slid off him and over to the passenger side. He didn't know what to do first, he said "oh shit, oh shit, oh SHIT" over and over again as he fumbled with his pants while trying to wipe his semen off his wheel and dash. She never bothered to cover up, she merely got her drivers license from her purse and handed it to me with a knowing smile and said, "here ya go Officer, and really, thank you". He eventually found his license and tried to hand it to me with his apparently quite sticky fingers. I handed hers back, told him to keep his and suggested that they get dressed and get a room. Then I thanked them for making my day and drove off.

 

My wife (now ex) was incredibly surprised when I came home from work and immediately pushed her into the bedroom in spite of the kids being in the living room watching He-man and She-ra. She was less than happy later when I explained why I was so fired up at the end of a shift. That incident is among the best memories I have from that otherwise generally unpleasant career.

 

10 years later I had been dating Mrs Doc for a short time and she and I had started to discuss swinging at length. I related this story to her and she surprised me by wanting to go to the same park to see if we could get caught too. After that, we started to go to clubs initially just to watch and be watched and the rest, well, the rest is history!!

Wonderful story padoc! Thanks for sharing it.

That lady had a great attitude and a true sense of her priorities. I hope the rest of her life has been great. And if she's still on the right side of the grass that her adventurous spirit is stll strong and she's still getting lots of sex.

Each of us were serial monogamists for our entire lives. When we met we were for 40 years "monogamists" in the way the term is used here. If for some reason we stopped the LS portion of our lives I would, and I believe she would, have no problems returning to that way of living. So, in the way you meant it our default is monogamist.

 

Now I would like to address the word monogamist itself, its actual meaning , and how most define marriage.

 

1. Mono gameo means I marry one or I am married to one.

2. Many define marriage as mutually exclusive sex primarily, with attached items like finances and raising children. For many though the sex issue is the defining issue.

 

1a. As for the two of us, we still consider ourselves monogamist. We each have exactly one spouse.

 

2a. Exclusive sex had a place for a while in our earlier years, while raising children and doing all the things that people do in their 30-40 year vanilla lives. Doing those things and maintaining the "US" in the world was a full time job.

Other people would have been an overload if allowed to close. Therefore the Vanilla/PTA/Church framework was firmly the limit.

 

As we matured the importance we attached to exclusive sex diminished and our free time for closer relationships increased.

 

What defines marriage for us is Trust, Loyalty, Openness, Transparency and a clear assurance that we each have the others back. Enjoying some pleasure with others has no bearing on marriage as we live it.

 

We seek out couples who have a similar perspective. So far they have not been in short supply.

Our main friends now are companions in many ways . Sex is just one of the things in the mix.

Your post was so we'll written. It resinated exactly with the feelings my husband of 35 years and I are having.

In October we are planning a trip out of state to a club and can't wait. The excitement of just talking about it has done wonders. He walks around with a hard on and I have wet panties all day.

So what about everyone else? Has non monogamy been your “default setting”, or was it a learned behavior? Can you be successful in the LS if you aren’t a non-monogamous person by default?

I think it's a default setting and even at an early age, if one can feel emotional and sexual attraction to multiple persons at the same time. But it can be switched off if needed, otherwise it is already a disorder. The learned behavior is the ethical discipline that goes with it, and the 'skills' in actually initiating, forming, and sustaining relationships.