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    Default Full swappers, just curious is it frustrating to be with soft swingers?

    We have been meeting a few neat couples lately. All of them are tending to be full swappers while we are soft. They know that going in and just wondering if it just gets frustrating to be with a soft swap couple? Our only rule is no vaginal sex and we are happy with that rule at this time. I'm just wondering if it's better for us to stick to our kind because there tends to be that moment in the situation where the full couple goes "do you want more?" which is awesome but we are like we stop here. Then after the situation people tend to discuss how they moved up levels. So I'm just curious from the full swappers point of view what it's like and should we be more fair to the full swappers by just passing on them? Also to a full swappers tend to play with soft swappers hoping that they will eventually advance?

  2. Back To Top | #2

    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious...

    When we play...we prefer to full swap...not saying we haven't soft swapped...when that has happened its usually been people hopping in after we're in the playroom.

    Would we intentionally meet up with a soft swap couple? No. Would we shun someone at a club or meet n greet...no, you can never have too many friends I think. Also, I wouldn't want the ss couple thinking 'oh they are just putting up with this hoping we'll go all the way'.

    If you hop into a pile in the playroom and we play to whatever your level is, no problem...but we would not intentionally seek you out. Have you ever asked one of the couples you've played with?
    Maria

  3. Back To Top | #3

    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious...

    I think if you make it clear to a full swap couple before you get busy playing, that it is the full swap couple's decision to make. If they want to play with you knowing you're a soft swap couple, I don't see a problem.

  4. Back To Top | #4

    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious...

    We were full swap right from the beginning. However, two of our best friends are soft swap only. We have played with them many times at our club and their home and our summer camp. After many years, during a multi-person "orgy" he did penetrate another woman briefly. I don't know if she ever allowed anybody to penetrate her.

    One of the very best encounters I ever had was with an unbelievably beautiful and magnificently built woman who was strictly soft swing. (Hubby was an epidemiologist who was compulsively health conscious. He even brought his own sheets to the club.) Anyway, her thing was to have a guy give her a great oral or manual orgasm and then have him come between her marvelous breasts onto her silky smooth chest and throat. Then she would rub the cum around, believing that it was what made her skin so soft and beautiful. As much as I would have loved to have had vaginal intercourse with her, she was the only woman I was ever with who wanted me to cum that way and had the breasts to make it worthwhile. And it was well worthwhile!!!

    Bottom line: if you find the right couple and fully communicate your desires and restrictions to them, you can have lots of fun whether soft or full swap. And, maybe someday you will decide to go full swap. For lots of people it just takes time to get really comfortable with all of the lifestyle possibilities

  5. Back To Top | #5
    Swingers Board Addict Coupleerotic22's Avatar
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    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious...

    Just like any other situation, no means no. If you don't want to go further then don't. We are full swap, but we have had situations were we said no, that's not how we play. It has to be respected or we are out of there.

    IF you are clear on your profile then let the full swap couple make the decision if they are interested, rather than having a blanket policy of no full swap couples.

    We have never played with a soft swap couple, which is not to say we wont, but there seems to be a wide range of what people call soft swap. Some are in for oral, others oral but shy of ejaculation. Others are ok for FF play but not MF play. For us, we look at the couple and situation and ask a few questions of ourselves. 1. Do they appear to be good prospects as friends. 2. We know their limits, can we have fun within those limits. If the first answer is no, we don't go further. If the first is yes and the second no, then we let them know we would be glad to have them as friends, but not playmates. If both are yes then we go for it. DO we hope they will become FULL swap, probably, but we wont try to influence them other than letting know how much we enjoy it.

    We have even chatted with one couple that was NO TOUCHING, we watch you and you watch us, that's not soft swap in my mind, its voyeurism and exhibitionism. We have no interest in that, I can rent a movie a hell of a lot cheaper, and get conversation elsewhere.

    So, just be honest and up front and take each as case as they come. (I know there is an easy pun there, but I will refrain - he says as his inner child giggles)

  6. Back To Top | #6

    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious...

    I think you will find that full-swap couple will avoid you to some extent. Unless you're an extremely hot couple or out of someone's league, in which case some will take whatever they can get.

    We won't play with SS couples. Soft swap means something different to every couple and it's too easy to hit boundries that create drama. We also find it a lot less satisfying.

    As long as you're open, play with anyone who is willing. Why not? You will run into couples who want you to do more -- all of them. They are full-swap after all. That's what they do. Some will be more hopeful than others and some more disappointed if you don't.

    The newer you are, the more people are going to be understanding. Most start off as soft and understand there is a progression. The longer you stay soft the less understanding some couples will be -- meaning your options will eventually dwindle to a full full-swappers and your fellow soft-swappers
    Adam and/or Eve

  7. Back To Top | #7

    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious...

    Great questions and an interesting topic, it will be interesting to see the responses.

    We started out by saying we would never touch another person, we just wanted to watch (check out Vegas Lee's post, that was totally us in the beginning) Then we said we would touch but we would never have intercourse with anyone else. Then we decided that was just a rule that we were using to not have sex with people that we wouldn't ever want to have sex with anyway and it was also a rule to protect our sense of trust of unity and once we realized that our rules against full swapping were just holding us back from what we really wanted to be doing and wasn't really serving any usefull purpose we began full swapping. The whole process took a couple years.

    We know other couples that were soft for 4-5 years and now they fuck everyone on the first date. People do change. We also know people that fullswapped for a good period of time and are now just voyeurs and party people again but don't really swap anymore, so yes people do change for sure.

  8. Back To Top | #8

    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious...

    Quote Originally Posted by Learning View Post
    So I'm just curious from the full swappers pov what it's like and should we be more fair to the full swappers by just passing on them? Also to a full swappers tend to play with soft swappers hoping that they will eventually advance?
    Now to answer your actual questions for us, we base our decision on who to play with on the attraction and connection we feel with that couple and not on the sex acts that will or will not take place.

    In other words if we have more attraction and chemistry with a soft swing couple vs a full swap couple we will go with the softies. vice versa if there is greater attraction with the fulls we will go with the fulls but that is based off of the attraction and not the sexual acts.

    So in that instance, NO, do not automatically pass on fullswappers.

    Now to be fair if everything were completely equal we would go with the fulls because that is where we have had the most fun and enjoyment and when you are dealing with attraction and chemistry, full swapping just seems more "complete."

    Now the issue that we have had with soft swappers has nothing to do with the fact that they soft swap but usually more with the fact that they are actually more in the "undecided" catagory than a true soft swap catagory.

    By that I mean it is often newbies that don't really know where they are going or what they are doing and are like we were and are just protecting themselves from the unknown. Or it is people that in reality are having issues in their relationship and are trying to protect their relationship while they are actually damaging it or they are not really attracted to us and are using "we are soft swap" as an excuse to just half-assed pussyfoot around the fact they really don't want to have sex with us anyway.

    A lot of other people that call themselves soft are really just people that want to see their wives with other women or the ladies themselves are only interested in F/F and dont' consider themselves "real swingers" in the first place.

    So I quess what I am saying is if someone is a true soft swapper and they are self aware and are fine with playing to their comfort level with gusto (as opposed to wishy-washy wannabes that don't really know if they want to be playing at all) then we have no problem with softies at all.

    And to answer your last question, no, we do not go into an encounter with softies hoping that they will convert but we have had exactly that happen a few times. And it was the fact that we were accepting and respectfull of their boundries when we were soft that made them pick us to fullswap with when the time came for them to go to that level.

  9. Back To Top | #9

    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious...

    We have no hard and fast rules, particularly if we meet an attractive couple at a club. If fact, we tend to play to the comfort level of the least comfortable among the four. To us, the object of playtime is to share an erotic experience with another couple. If orgasms are involved for all concerned, we're not too concerned about where they happen or even how, so long as it happens. This is supposed to be fun and if we're all having fun Im not sure it matters if penetration happens.

  10. Back To Top | #10

    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious...

    Quote Originally Posted by Learning View Post
    We have been meeting a few neat couples lately. All of them are tending to be full swappers while we are soft. They know that going in and just wondering if it just gets fraustrating to be with a soft swap couple? Our only rule is no vaginal sex and we are happy with that rule at this time. I'm just wondering if it's better for us to stick to our kind because there tends to be that moment in the situation where the full couple goes "do you want more?" which is awesome but we are like we stop here. Then after the situation people tend to discuss how they moved up levels. So I'm just curious from the full swappers pov what it's like and should we be more fair to the full swappers by just passing on them? Also to a full swappers tend to play with soft swappers hoping that they will eventually advance?
    We have played with soft swappers and had a good time but my wife did call it rather, and I quote, 'anti-climatic'.

    We started as soft and after a while it just seemed kinda silly to do everything 'but'.

    We would play with soft swappers even if we knew they would stay that way, but we also expect them to eventually advance. This doesn't mean we would play HOPING they would advance with us, just our view on how most people progress with swinging.

  11. Back To Top | #11

    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious...

    We would decline to play with soft swap couples under most circumstances. It just isn't what we enjoy. Everyone should do what works for them. We always appreciate when a couple tells us up front what they're into, and if they don't tell us, we'll ask before getting worked up. I won't say we're not disappointed, but hey, that surely works both ways. We don't always get what we want.

    If a couple is new, we may ask them if they see themselves going full swap ever. But I can't imagine playing with a soft swap couple and asking them during play if they want to go further. That seems wrong to me, kind of pushy.
    Through every dead and living thing, Time runs, like a fuse. -- Jackson Browne

  12. Back To Top | #12

    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fuse View Post
    We would decline to play with soft swap couples under most circumstances. It just isn't what we enjoy. Everyone should do what works for them. We always appreciate when a couple tells us up front what they're into, and if they don't tell us, we'll ask before getting worked up. I won't say we're not disappointed, but hey, that surely works both ways. We don't always get what we want.

    If a couple is new, we may ask them if they see themselves going full swap ever. But I can't imagine playing with a soft swap couple and asking them during play if they want to go further. That seems wrong to me, kind of pushy.
    What The Fuse wrote is pretty much what I would reply. We would most likely not meet a soft swap couple for a "date". If we met a couple by chance at a club or a party, and we liked them...sure we might. My wife really wants the penetration and soft swap for her is just missing the main course.

    We do have friends that are soft swap only, and have had some play session that have been very hot and fun. I feel the friendship overrides our preference for full swap.

  13. Back To Top | #13

    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious...

    Thanks for the input all right now we are at the soft swap level. It has been a tad hard to deny to chemistry lately we have been encountering with some of the full swap couples. They do know going in what we are (no we are not an incredibly hot couple but my look that I bring to the table is working for me). As I was stradling someone the other night at a party fully clothed as he whispered to me "I want to feel you inside of me". Yeah I do too...oh yeah... but we're not there (yet?). Makes me just wonder if we should stick to our kind, see where things go, or what ever. Yeah...got my head spinning because I never thought that chemistry would be as strong as this. It's not like I can predict if we will have the opportunity to explore more but there is that line I feel is there and it's even getting harder for me to not want to cross it yet be mindful if where we are at as a couple. All about pacing because we are happy with where we are at but it's that darn chemistry that has my mind a racing...lol

  14. Back To Top | #14

    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious...

    Quote Originally Posted by Learning View Post
    So I'm just curious from the full swappers pov what it's like and should we be more fair to the full swappers by just passing on them?
    For us, soft swap is like going to the carnival and not being allowed to go on any rides. Not really our thing. That said, if the couple is really hot, and we are getting along great otherwise, we have been known to do it.

    As far as passing on full swap couples goes, I don't see why you would. As long as they understand what your limits are, it is up to them if they are into it or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Learning View Post
    Also to a full swappers tend to play with soft swappers hoping that they will eventually advance?
    Yep, that is usually the case with us.

    It is interesting, looking back on the few soft swappers we have known or played with, they usually eventually fell into one of two categories. Those who had issues which prevented them from going to full swap, and usually resulted in them quitting swinging all together. And those who, after a short stint at soft swap, went ahead and progressed to full swap. We have yet to meet any soft swap couples who played that way long term. For that reason, I think our hope or expectation that those we soft swap with will eventually progress to full swap is justified.
    R (He is R, she is P)

  15. Back To Top | #15

    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious...

    Quote Originally Posted by Learning View Post
    Makes me just wonder if we should stick to our kind, see where things go, or what ever. Yeah...got my head spinning because I never thought that chemistry would be as strong as this. It's not like I can predict if we will have the opportunity to explore more but there is that line I feel is there and it's even getting harder for me to not want to cross it yet be mindful if where we are at as a couple. All about pacing because we are happy with where we are at but it's that darn chemistry that has my mind a racing...lol
    The night we first fullswapped it would have been a crime against nature to have cut things off just because we had made some rule against it many months earlier.

    Don't get me wrong, we had discussed it before that night and made a mutual agreement that if the mood and chemistry were there we would go for it. The mood and chemistry was there and we went for it and never looked back and never regretted it.

    Seriously, why do you have rules against full swapping? What is it you are trying to protect or trying to prevent?

    I'm not knocking it or trying to get you to change your mind. I am trying to get you to be fully self aware and understand why you are making that decision. If your reasons are fully valid for you and that is where you choose to stay then all the power to you.

    In our case the only reason we remained a soft swap couple was that we could simply not comprehend ever wanting to have sex with someone esle and couldn't comprehend that having sex with someone else would be OK.

    We got to where you are now and felt the chemistry and felt the comfort. And when we tried to come up with the reasons not to full swap the reasons just no longer held any validity anymore.

  16. Back To Top | #16

    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious...

    Quote Originally Posted by Newpants View Post
    Seriously, why do you have rules against full swapping? What is it you are trying to protect or trying to prevent?
    Good question For me, it goes back to partly the "I can't vision being intimate with anyone but my husband" (status quo), other half (well more than a half, how about 3/4) of me goes back to grad school and all the therapy classes I took that stressed "when you bring in another party into the bedroom drama ensues" (fear because our marriage is awesome). It's just something I'm self aware of because of my background in what I do.

    I'm a pretty sensitive type, can count the number of sexual partners on one hand, hard on myself, don't know if I can emotionally handle it but so far, I have been doing great with everything we have done and of course desiring more. I know I enjoy what we do, who we do...I don't know yet if I can rationalize a full for us...if that makes any sense. I also never predicted having any chemistry, you know that awesome tension that makes you go hummmmmmm.... I would have never thought I would have to encounter those feelings. It feels like almost if it's this good, why muck it up? but then the other side is like if its this good, could it be better?

    Did I mention how I love this board? It's a great processing tool.

  17. Back To Top | #17
    Swingers Board Addict Tia Vampire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious...

    We also started out as soft swappers. Move at your own paste. Now that we are full swappers, we would not meet up with a soft swap couple for a date.

  18. Back To Top | #18

    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious...

    LEARNING wrote "For me, it goes back to partly the "I can't vision being intimate with anyone but my husband" (status quo), other half (well more than a half, how about 3/4) of me goes back to grad school and all the therapy classes I took that stressed "when you bring in another party into the bedroom drama ensues" (fear because our marriage is awesome). It's just something I'm self aware of because of my background in what I do."

    "when you bring in another party into the bedroom drama ensues" is a "one size fits all" generalization. The more appropriate lesson that should have been taught in grad school classes is "...drama MAY ensue." Drama does not ensue if the participants are right and the setting is right.

    It's good to be cautious, considering all of the other things that this very thoughtful woman is bringing to the table. However, LEARNING is undoubtedly already aware from a complete reading of this board that there are a lot of full swap swingers who don't have "drama" issues.

    Once I got rid of all the B.S. that the church hamstrung me with while I was going through puberty, I could finally enjoy sex with women other than my wife. What I (we, but especially me) learned from swinging improved our sex at home by orders of magnitude.

    Also, it is very clear to me now that monogamy is right for some people but not for all.

  19. Back To Top | #19

    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious...

    Quote Originally Posted by willyoats View Post

    "when you bring in another party into the bedroom drama ensues" is a "one size fits all" generalization. The more appropriate lesson that should have been taught in grad school classes is "...drama MAY ensue." Drama does not ensue if the participants are right and the setting is right.

    It's good to be cautious, considering all of the other things that this very thoughtful woman is bringing to the table. However, LEARNING is undoubtedly already aware from a complete reading of this board that there are a lot of full swap swingers who don't have "drama" issues.
    .
    I have to say that's why I enjoy this board because it presents s much healthier notion of the lifestyle. Back before we were in the lifestyle and I found DH peeking at swinger sites I was so pissed initially but when I found this board I felt better and it helped me looking at swinging in a different light. You are right willyoats that the better lesson in a sex therapy class would have been drama could ensue. Heck, drama can ensue anyway in this lifestyle soft or full, it can be there.

    Had an awesome discussion with hubby last night though. It's always great to have awesome communication with spouse. He chatted about how it was a semi relief the other night to communicate with the one couple we were with that we stop here. He cannot envision yet being with another female and that's where he's at. Kudos for him for communicating that to me. Last party I had him scan the floor and identify who he thought was attracted to visually. Out of 200+ he located one...which is a step in the right direction. I have noticed that it's really easy to hang out with soft because there is no boundary pushing there. Full, well there is but it is fun at one level to be with a full because they bring a different level to the table yet hard because I wonder if there is that level of frustration of "why does this couple want to stay soft" and it ruins the overall experience at the end because their needs may nit be met but ours are. No wonder some of you fulls stay away because there's a lot of different dynamics there.

  20. Back To Top | #20

    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious...

    If they know you are soft swap going in (as they should...both because you should tell them and they should ask), then you are not doing anything wrong and they are just being pushy.

    I do not play with soft swap couples. It's a choice I make because I find it frustrating. It's also because all of my friends are full swap and I want to meet people who can join that group. I'm not going to try and convert a soft swap couple unless they have made it clear they are looking to move on to full swap. then I more than happy to help!

    If they do not know going in that you are soft swap, well, then yeah, I imagine they get frustrated.

    Just make sure going in that you both know where you are coming from. It can be a weird conversation, but making sure everyone knows everyone elses limits is important.

  21. Back To Top | #21

    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious...

    Quote Originally Posted by Learning View Post
    I also never predicted having any chemistry, you know that awesome tension that makes you go hummmmmmm.... I would have never thought I would have to encounter those feelings. It feels like almost if it's this good, why muck it up? but then the other side is like if its this good, could it be better?
    Oh, it can be better. I just wish we found it more often. It seems like some couples fear intimacy, passion, and chemistry (they seem equate these things with love) -- but when you find it with someone and you're allowed to take it all the way, it's mind-blowing.

    We haven't had one minute of drama due to swinging. There's no jealousy here. Having sex with others is great, but we love each other and only each other. I don't worry Eve is going to fall in love with some guy, and there's no way I'm going to fall in love with any other woman. Knowing that, we can appreciate it when one of us really connects with another person.
    Adam and/or Eve

  22. Back To Top | #22

    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious...

    Quote Originally Posted by bbarnsworth View Post
    I think if you make it clear to a full swap couple before you get busy playing, that it is the full swap couple's decision to make. If they want to play with you knowing you're a soft swap couple, I don't see a problem.
    What they said. Unfortunately, there are those who are just going to try to push you past your boundaries so you will have to be prepared for that, not only for making sure that they and you stick to your guns, but be prepared to get up and walk out if it seems they aren't willing to do so.
    The Swinger Manual - all the info from the Swingers Board in one convenient book

  23. Back To Top | #23
    Liking It Here nola40scpl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious is it frustrating to be with soft swingers?

    there's a million different answers to this question and i guess in everyone's mind it is the right one if that is the way they feel. there's been some good points made here. i was called out on another thread when i stated there were 'swingers' (swappers) and deviants, experience has taught us it goes deeper than just 'that's our preference'.

    we were full swap from the very beginning. we discussed this at great lengths. my biggest interest in getting into swinging was to see my wife with another man. i KNEW what i was capable of doing to her and i wanted to see if someone else could. and if they did it better you can bet your butt i was going to be taking notes!

    soft swinging reminds me a lot of high school and i'm not sure how many of us want to relive those years. getting to first base, maybe getting a little head and usually never to completion. this was not what we were signing up for. as someone stated earlier, seems kind of pointless.

    as i have seen it put (trying for justification) 'nothing wrong with having a little appetizer before the main course! the appetizer is to get you ready for the big meal.' basically what that's saying is 'hunny, i love you and sex is wonderful, but i really need some other man's mate to slurp my gherkin to get me in the mood to have sex with you.' we've read and heard the stories too many times where a soft swap couple relates an experience and the last line is usually 'and then we went home and had the most amazing sex!' sounds like there's deeper issues there. but to each his own.

    another thing we've found through experience with soft swingers is that someone (and usually the full swap hubby) usually gets left out. in the lifestyle today with so much focus on the bi-sexual woman, most soft swap couples are in it strictly for the girl/girl play. of course, her hubby will join in if desired but SHE has no interest in another man.

    so to answer your question, no we wouldn't knowingly play with a soft swap couple. we have, like some, when in a group situation but we knew that possibility existed when getting involved in a group situation. many people find out that by limiting yourself you're also limiting the possibility of meeting some great people. stated above, plenty couples start out soft until they realize they really aren't getting out of it what they thought they would without making a few 'adjustments' to their rules.

  24. Back To Top | #24
    Educated Posterior Pensacolapair's Avatar
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    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious...

    Quote Originally Posted by JustAskJulie View Post
    What they said. Unfortunately, there are those who are just going to try to push you past your boundaries so you will have to be prepared for that, not only for making sure that they and you stick to your guns, but be prepared to get up and walk out if it seems they aren't willing to do so.
    What they both said...

    As several have already responded - you gotta do what works for you!

    To answer your specific questions: The way we see it, everyone sets their limits for play. I suspect that many couples are like we are in that our limits for play with others are different from those for our personal play - in other words, there are things that I can do with her that other guys can't and vice versa. So going into a play situation, certain things are already 'off the menu' so to speak. However, for us, removing vaginal sex from the menu is like going to a steakhouse that will provide all the side orders, but ya gotta bring your own steak! It's just so much easier to go to a steakhouse that has steak too. Doesn't mean we have to eat steak - but if we're still hungry after the salad bar - various cuts are available.So we too don't knowingly hook up with couples who are only soft-swap. I put knowingly in there because, we have met couples who thought it was okay to not reveal that they were soft-only until game time. Early in our swinging journey, we tried it once and didn't like it. Since then, we have treated it as their being less than honest and took our ball and went home.

    As to would we soft-swap hoping that eventually another couple would 'come around' to our way of play...? Absolutely not - we aren't going to change our style of play so why should we expect someone else to change their's? For us, this is about finding pieces that already fit - not reshaping those that don't. Now..should they change their style of play further down the line and approach us again - it's all good!

    M
    "When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember that you came to drain the swamp!"

  25. Back To Top | #25

    Default Re: Full swappers, just curious is it frustrating to be with soft swingers?

    Love the input. I have to say that it's been pretty hard lately to want to stay soft forever. Like tonight I was thinking about this, if I die tomorrow would I want that full experience and heck yeah I would. Lol! Been having great chats we hubby lately about this. We know who we would like to do a full with but we'll see if there is opportunity for us.

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