The threesome I wanted turned into a FF twosome without me

[sexycouple43way]

My GF and I have been dating a little over a year and midway through our relationship we discussed the issue of bring another partner into our mix (FFM). Having 2 females at once has always been a fantasy of mine and she confessed her curiosity of being with another female. Well to put things into motion, we subscribed to a couple of web sites (AFF and Sexsearch) with absolutely no results in finding a third partner. Through one of those sites, we were invited to join a local swing group. I had my reservations about it because to me it was going too far to the extreme. My GF took great interest it and informed me that our chances of finding a 3d female would be greater in that environment as apposed to sinking countless of dollars monthly into adult dating web sites that was bring absolutely nothing in return. Moreover, (she says) it would be a great way to meet other couples. Well to fast forward a tad, we attended a couple of meet and greets and to my surprise we had a great time and met few couples that we've became somewhat close to (Haven't played with them tho). Well here's my dilemma and bear with me as I set it up.

Last week we attended our first party and I must say we were both a tad bit nervous. We established our ground rules prior to attending and that would be whatever happened, we would do it together. The Party; there were several couples there as well as numerous single females. We met up with a couple we met prior and mingled with others. We drank, laughed, joked, and drank, got a great excitement out of the shows being performed and oh, did I mention we drank. On one occasion, my GF asked me if I saw anyone I'd like to be with and I made her aware to one attractive lady who I was eyeing all night and who I thought was eyeing us. Nevertheless, We were really enjoying ourselves.

Ok, This is where those drinks makes the recount of the event somewhat dim but from what I can recall, I was approached by one of the single females. Throughout our conversation, I was asked what I was looking for and I expressed my desire for a 3-some and asked her to proposition my GF. In my drunken state, I recall adjourning to a back room with the both of them. While there were others in the room, we started to get busy. GF was giving me a BJ while the other was pleasing the GF. It was very exciting to see my GF really enjoying her first encounted and she was really into it. Well to my surprise the female whom we had our eye on all night joined in for a moment also. Thinking to myself, "jackpot" we found just what we were looking for, we all got dressed (guess I got "star struck" because we started to become the stars of the show) and as a first, wasn't looking for such of a crowd. Afterwards, I spoke to my GF and told her she needs to hook-up with her. We hung around the party for another hour or so when we decided it was time to go which brings me to my problem.

On the way out, my GF says she had to go to the bathroom. Well as I waited for her (almost 10 minutes) she came out. Wondering what was going on I stuck around briefly to see who, if any would follow her. Low and behold it was the female we were suppose to get together with. The same female who I thought had her eye on us turned out to only have her eye only on my GF. OHHHH I was livid. Our drive back home was nothing but silence. I felt left out and deceived. We arrived at the party with "rules of engagement" and I felt she didn't follow them. Her excuse was that the other female must have been following/stalking her because just as she was walking in the bathroom the other girl was right behind her. She went on to say that she got caught up in the moment and that she was trying to set something up for the both of us. Needless to say, the other has no interest in me only my GF. My GF was very apologetic saying she had no ill intentions but only to make what we both were looking for to happen. Not buying the line she was feeding me, we did not speak to each other for 3 days. We just started talking again and she states it’s really not all that serious and promises me that she’ll make it up to me. I feel our quest to charge in together was compromised by her desire to go in alone. My GF and I are an attractive couple but I really feel a deflation of my ego and somewhat a betrayal of her. She got her's but I was left out. Am I overacting????

[VegasLee]

I see people keeping "score" all the time and I don't understand it. If she had a good time what is the problem. I would be happy for her. After all, you wanted this ffm thing to happen. Why keep score.

First off you are looking for the hardest thing to find. The single bi female that would want to play with both of you. She is in control, not you. What do you have to offer. She can get dick any time she wants.

You did not say your GF played with the other girl. You said she did not come back for ten minutes. What happened in ten minutes? You don't "buy her line"? Why do you think she is lying to you then? Do you think she is lying to make your own ego feel better?

If she broke the rules then fine, she broke them, talk about it and move on. If you can not talk without being mad for three days then you have no business bringing others into your relationship in the first place. You have to much to work on between the two of you.

You said you two found what you wanted then you got up and got dressed. Why. You had what you wanted, why leave at that point?

From what I read you told your GF to hook up with this girl. It happened and now your pissed.

Seems you two need to step back and figure out what you want that is fair to both of you. Stop the keeping score though. What kind of silly game is that?

Good luck to you both.

[BiWoman33]

I will jump in and say that, yes, you are making more of it than you should. Because these are new experiences for the both of you it can be hard to lay out rules when you don't yet know what to expect, or all the possible outcomes. Some people go to clubs, play sexy and dance, and go home without any significant sex play. Other nights are different. My first point to make to you is that there is no "entitlement" to sex . In swinging and in life. You didn't get "yours", and it's a bummer, but no one promised it, either.
As for your GF playing in the bathroom, it is forgivable, even if it is disappointing to you. Often, I have found, it is the women who initiate the playing, and the men allow them to get it going, as women tend to be the choosier of a pair. It might have turned into more, and unless the woman who staked out your girlfriend directly said she wasn't interested in you, then there is a possibility she was. You can still be happy for your GF's first experience, maybe enjoy that this woman was really lusting after her, and the two of you can go to the next party with the benefit of knowing more about each other and each other's needs. I'm sure your GF didn't do it "to" you; in that moment, she was being "done". It wasn't intended to hurt you, and you are right to tell her that it did. It doesn't sound like it will keep happening, and as you both gain experience( and more understanding of each other) your rules may change with you.

[good times]

Dito what Vegaslee said, it seems to me you are making a big deal out of nothing too.

The only thing I would add is that if she was only gone to the bathroom for 10 minutes, I would be highly surprised if anything happened other than talking. The vast majority of the deals made to hook up with others at the clubs that we have experianced have been finalized by the girls while in the restroom.

As far as the woman only being into the girl and not the guy of a couple goes, that is usually the case, it is rare to find a single female that wants to play with the guy of the couple, we have only met a couple women that wanted to play with both in over three years of regular club attendence.

[She_n_Jaybee]

This "mole hill" is just loaded with issues. The first one that comes to mind for me is the drinking. I see it on a regular basis, one or both of a couple end up getting too drunk for anything to work out right. The guy gets too drunk to get it up, or the girl gets too drunk to realize that she's out of control. My advice is to play sober, or at least to limit the amount you drink. Makes rules easier to follow and transgressions easier to deal with.

VegasLee has a very good point. Don't keep score. In the party or club environment you can't choreograph an encounter. That's part of the appeal for us. We go to a club never knowing what will happen, or who it will happen with. Whatever happens is spontaneous, making the experience even more thrilling. Seems to me you have set in your mind exactly what your ffm 3some will be like. If so, write it all down, call around the local escort services, find out the cost and buy your experience. It probably won't be the best encounter, but at least you might be able to get everyone to follow your script.

As for you getting upset because your GF was in the ladies room for 10 minutes... You might want to do anything and everything to keep her happy. Most of the women I've known have a difficult time going to the restroom in less than 10 minutes. Especially if they have someone to talk to. When we go out to a club and I see some woman that my She is interested in head towards the ladies room, I'll tell her to "go get her". It's an opportunity for the women to decide if they have any chemistry without us guys trying to push our own agenda.

Lastly, seems to me you're trying to have everything all at once. Wanting your GF to have her first bi experience, while having her first 3some, while you are having your first 3some is a tall order. Let her have some time with a woman, get truly comfortable being with another woman, then she will have a chance to really enjoy a 3some. And you might enjoy watching her without the pressure of trying to see everything, keep everyone satisfied and perform as well.

jaybee (with significant input from She)

[EvilMJ]

Yep as Vegas Lee says..keeping score is a sure way to destroy any chance you have at swinging. If we did that I would be in trouble .. . I have a couple of friends who play with just me, why just me you ask..well one of them has a wife who, like my husband works odd hours and don't have as much free time to play. Another couple is only looking for another woman. We know them all well and have a firm agreement of what is okay and what isn't. Hubby is not the jelouse type and he doesn't feel the need to keep score. We just have great communication and stick to our rules.

So don't panic, things are not as bad as they seem. It is easy to get caught up in the excitement when you are new. Don't be so quick to anger or place blame. Just remember she has never done this before, it is a learning process.

[lovedoctor]

I will be the unpopular one here and say that I think you DO you have a valid concern (s).

If you think she and the other female hooked up in the bathroom and she's not telling you the truth, then that's a trust issue and you need to work that out before anything else.

If she DID hook up with the girl and is lying, that's a big deal cuz there's a problem with your relationship and she DID break the rules and the trust you had about your expectations to do this together.

If she DIDN'T hook up, and explained to this girl what you two had agreed on, and you're just being untrusting, there's either a reason, or you're just paranoid and you need to figure out which and fix it.

If she DIDN'T hook up, but agreed that she would like to try it alone with this girl at a later time, then she wants to change the game and that is the time for conversation about where you will go from here.

Your feelings are there for a reason, I would not dismiss them without examining them. You will always learn something about yourself and your relationship. And that's not a bad thing.

[intuition897]

While I agree that swinging is definitely not a game of numbers or notches on lipstick cases, and keeping score has no place in it, I also have to agree with lovedoctor.

Although it tends to often lean in favour of the woman, when it comes to power in a swinging relationship, ideally it should be dead level. Reverse the sexes. Would the advice change somewhat? If it was him breaking the rules without prior discussion, would he get a break? Probably not. I agree that Mr. sexycouple's feelings should not be dismissed as trivial or unfounded; the fact remains that they walked into the club with pre-arranged and firmly set boundaries. The deal was that these rules would not change without being discussed outside of a swinging situation. This didn't happen. Getting "caught up in the moment" doesn't cut it.

Now I don't want to seem like I'm coming down on Mrs. sexycouple like a ton of bricks here. She screwed up. It's done. Learn, put it in the past, and move on. It is still important that she realizes that it was (or at least in my relationship it would be) a major transgression and breach of trust. So it hurt. So what? It's just a little pain. Both of you can still stand up and brush off the dust and learn that that is just one of those things that is NOT cool to ever do again! When you're just starting out, you can expect your partner to inadvertantly hurt you...or maybe even do it intentionally. It's really important to learn to be assertive about your needs and rights and set up your own personal boundaries (which your own partner must respect as well), and understand that your partner will cross them from time to time. Be prepared to speak up, correct him/her, and forgive.

[Deptydog]

Originally Posted by intuition897

Reverse the sexes. Would the advice change somewhat? If it was him breaking the rules without prior discussion, would he get a break? Probably not. I agree that Mr. sexycouple's feelings should not be dismissed as trivial or unfounded; the fact remains that they walked into the club with pre-arranged and firmly set boundaries. The deal was that these rules would not change without being discussed outside of a swinging situation. This didn't happen. Getting "caught up in the moment" doesn't cut it.

I both agree and disagree with intuition897. If the situation were reversed, the guy would be verbally castrated by many people for breaking the rules.

However, As anyone who has been in swinging for any length of time knows, people CAN get caught up in the "heat of the moment". Does that make it right...no. But it does happen.

Mrs. DD and I have a set of general guidelines rather than hard and fast rules (snicker...he said hard and fast ) When we started, we found that the rules we had set for ourselves were too restrictive and couldn't address many of the situations we were in. Now, we try to be mindful of each other's feelings when we are at a party, and we DO talk about things, especially if they make one of us uncomfortable.

[Honey_Tampa]

Deptydog, if you ever sell those carrots on eBay .. DO let me know okay? I love them!

Okay back to the topic at hand...carry on.

[just1gurl]

Originally Posted by Deptydog

When we started, we found that the rules we had set for ourselves were too restrictive and couldn't address many of the situations we were in. Now, we try to be mindful of each other's feelings when we are at a party

Do tell me about your rules Depty DAWG! and I want to know about your carrots too!

not to interrupt the original post: "Through one of those sites, we were invited to join a local swing group. I had my reservations about it because to me it was going too far to the extreme. " What's extreme? You were just going to be around other people who were also trying to live their fantasies just as you wanted.

Not that I think you should take my advice!!!

but, sugar, you just got on the ride. Enjoy. Don't analyze this too much. Go with your heart for sure. But YOU got on the ride. Wait til it comes to a stop. It's different for you too, doing this as a single, not married like the most of these good folks, (I just moved from the south) they've been in a relationship, alot of them for years. The bonds that hold their relationships together are TOTALLY different from a guy with a girl he's only been with a short while. This kind of thing will open a lot of doors. All of them you may not like, but then again, you may. you had a bi fantasy, she had a bi-reality. BUT, did we assume this? Maybe she hadn't had enough fiber in the last couple of days???? Maybe your jealous? I don't know anything about this though, other than the line to the rollercoaster keeps getting shorter! Dont take too much stock in my thoughts. just a thought

[Deptydog]

Just1gurl, I thought the carrots were cute as an avatar. I used to live in DC when I was in the Army. PM me some time and we'll swap stories.



As for the rules...we had too many to start with. We wouldn't play with people unless they we had established a relationship with them first (which ruled out many of the people we were meeting at parties). We even had rules about what our play partners did for a living.

Now, we try to keep each other in mind so as to not bruise any feelings. We each have "veto" power over any potential playmates. We make sure that we each know where the other is at all times. I feel that my first job is to keep Mrs. DD safe at all times. Secondly, I want her to have the best time that I can provide for her.(remind me to tell you about the dance sometime) Lastly, I look to my own pleasure. It seems to be working so far.

[LOL_OMG]

We have come up with all kinds of rules, and before we even got to rule #1 it changed. However, our one big rule is that drinking shouldn't change the rules we set when sober. You can change the rules, but only when you're sober.

The "heat of the moment" can be effected by foreplay, music, drugs, alchohol, what have you. We have talked at length that we don't want to be influenced by alchohol or drugs, because the next day you either 1) don't remember or 2) are embarassed because you wouldn't have done the same thing sober.

If one of us is crossing the line from the having fun and staying within the boundaries to "uninhibited drunken bliss" the other steps in and says it's "no go". Seems like you guys had quite a bit to drink, and whether or not she was in the right or you were.....it's not a great situation to have a swinger experience with. Until you find your groove, it's important to keep a clear head and see what's going on in front of you.


Mrs LOL

[sereneiders]

I agree with mostly of what have been told.

First of all, to swing you have to set up rules and limits. The lack of experience usually leads you into scenarios for which you didn't had any previous rule set, so you need a "meta-rule" on how to deal in these cases. The meta-rule could be, ok, go along with the situation, then we see how we felt and make a new rule, or it could be conservative: stop what you're doing, then we'll talk about what happend and figure out the new rule, or whatever in the middle.

These scenarios may include the expected behavior when being alone with other people (accidentaly or not), or the alcohol issue (for example, if one notices the other drank too much, it's time to call off).

It seems your experience mixed several scenarios you both were unaware of beforehand. You cannot make an issue of an untold rule, or because of something you lack a rule for, because she did something that didn't meet your expectations. No one of you will be able to gess what the other expects, moreover if there are contradictory premises, like asking her to hook up the gals, and even for her to realize thet there are the women the ones setting up the game, ALLWAYS, inside the clubs.

We have another preservation rule, perhaps the more important one because it's the required one to be able to swing: if something happens that hurts or dislike some of us, then we'll talk about it ONCE, set that something as off limits, and we won't bring up that something in any further argument we may have. We are doing this togheter, we're learning togheter, we're able to make mistakes and FOR SURE we will make mistakes we will have to learn from. It is our choice to do this, and we asume the mistake made by one of us as it were happening to both of us AT ONCE, so I cannot blame on her nor she blame on me, if WE DID a mistake, is a shared responsability we have to deal with.

It seems you felt hurt because the lack of experience leaded you into to a situation you had not rules for, and because YOU expected her to fit to your UNTOLD expectations on how to behave in such a situation. In the worst case (let suppose she did something in the bathroom with the other gal), it is a SHARED mistake (both of you failed to foresight the other expectations).

If you cannot deal with the pain nor talk about it for three days, if your attitude will be to blame on her about the mistakes without looking for your own contributions to those mistakes, then you want to enjoy the cake but you're leaving to her the risk to burn herself (alone) with the hoven. You both have to share the burdens of swinging, if you cannot, then swinging isn't for you.

BTW, just for you to know, clubs lady bathrooms use to be crouded of women that require more time in there than the one they spend when going to the bathroom in let say, a restaurant. Most of them have to clean up themselves after having sex, this means, not only to pee, also to wash themselves (sometimes getting rid of cum strains anywhere), fix the make up... once corwded there they talk to each other, ask details about people someone esle was having fun with (remember, the women are the one setting up the game in the clubs, thus this gives them a chance to gather information they wouldn't get somewhere else)... so... ladies bathroom in swingers clubs turns into social clubs themselves, which adds to the time ladies spend there, perhaps just waiting to be able to do their stuff. I've been waiting for my wyfe to come back form the bathroom for half an hour because of this.

So, you may CHOOSE to explain these ten minutes the way YOU LIKE. You can do it to feed your worst fears and turn what happend into a nightmare. Or you can talk to her and CHOOSE to trust her. And if you cannot trust her and need her to account for every minute she spend alone in the ladies room, then again, swinging isn't for you.

[wolfnblu]

What's all this about keeping score? That's not the problem as I see it; the problem is that they agreed to PLAY TOGETHER, and *IF* she did anything in the bathroom with the other woman, she broke their agreement. I don't see anything in his writing that says he's upset because she got hers and he didn't, which would be a "keeping score" issue....I see him being upset because she did something (maybe) that wasn't within their agreed-upon boundaries.

If it had been a man that she had (presumedly) played with in the bathroom would your responses be different, those of you who say he's making too much of it?