My wife has a double standard and may be cheating, too

[Naughtycool]

Well folks - long time since last post- 9 years in lifestyle - and still learning!
Previously my wife had a semi- exclusive single party partner that got WAY too close for WAY too long- finally ended about a year ago due to the hassle-
Lst week an old friend and party partner of hers clled to take us to dinner- ended up that I had a late appt. and couldn't make it till later- talked to her and she said- "what if he wants to hve sex with me? to which I replied- is that such a stretch- what's the matter, aren't you a big girl? Can't you say no and she said -yes- no problem- call you later-
Two hours later she calls and says - don't know when I will be home there is stuff in the freeezer for you- Ok- HMMMM
Two more phone calls from her (at the restaurant) I am at home and long story short- over 2 hours more go by before she brings him home and SURPRISE! they had sex! Not pised about the sex but the fact that I wasn't informed before she got down to the deed! Basically behind my back!
We discussed it told her I was hurt becasue she did not let me know and we planned on the next Sat. to have a date night at home alone- which ended up being changed by her- the converstation that took place that night was that basically there are no more rules in (or out)the lifestyle and that I could do whatever I wanted with whomever and she actually challenged me to find a sex partner- So opinions please- I she sincere or just talking out her ass because she might have some guilt? Quite confused
Naughtycool

[wetpanties]

This isn't an issue about swinging - This is an issue about "CHEATING". Whay your wife did is called "CHEATING"! You have a much larger problem that needs to be addressed now. If you have no more rules in or out of the lifestyle, it would appear that you no longer have a life together!

[dave110256]

I agree with wetpanties...........swinging is only consentual, otherwise, it's cheating.

[Spoomonkey]

I am not so sure that it is cheating, though I do see your point, WP. I think this is a case of boundaries becoming far too lax.

I think that what might have happened is that communication has broken down. There are plenty of couples who have a "no rules" approach and make it work, but the majority of swingers have rules that are intended to protect themselves as a couple. It is obvious that what the lifestyle has become for you isn't working, so "no rules" isn't "just right."

I think the sane-est and most sensible thing any couple can do when they get "out of sync" is simply to pull away from swinging. It doesn't have to be forever, though it certainly could be, if that is what works. But, pull away and communicate. Go back to the open, honest communication that helped both of you get into the lifestyle.

Tell her how this is making you feel - but not with a "aren't you a big girl" tone (that may be some pretty good insight into what is going on, IMHO). Start with honesty and see if you both can work together from there.

I think the scariest thing in the lifestyle for me would be to get to a point where Mrs Spoo and I are no longer heading in the same direction. After all, this isn't bowling we are talking about. This sort of thing could/would absolutely rip us apart. Because of that, we are very adamant about keeping our communication as wide open today as it was when we started. My relationship to her is far more important than this "hobby" - and I know she feels the same.

The two of you need to stop, back up, get back to that point and then see where the road leads from there.

Spoomonkey

[EvilMJ]

I agree with Mr. Spoo on this issue. THere appears to be a huge gap in Productive communication going on here. I also agree that you need to both pull away for a while and set up some new ground rules. Hubby and I have played separately before, but...and this is a large But..everything is discussed, planned and agreed upon first. He would know where I was at all times, who I was with, what was going on, exactly when I would return. Any change in these plans results in a phone call at which point a whole new discussion would occur. If someone is uncomfortable then it does not happen.

When we say we play alone, it is a rare thing that only happens with people we know VERY well and trust (no singles either). It works for us, but it if started to seem to go off track we would stop in a heart beat. As Mr. Spoo pointed out, this is just a 'hobby' to us, it is not our life and my husband is number one at all times.

[txduo2000]

I don't really know how to respond to this myself. I have many things going through my head, but I don't know if you guys have played separately in the past or what your boundaries and rules were prior to this incident.

I think Spoo and EvilMJ said it pretty well, and your communication is definitely in need of some improvement and overhaul.

In our situation ... neither of us would ever go to a dinner or meeting with a single or even a couple for that matter without the other.

I consider it extremely disrespectful to you that she indicated, in so many words, that her intention was NOT to have sex with this guy, then she did. I consider it absolutely disrespectful that she called you to tell you that there was stuff in the freezer for you. And absolutely without a doubt disrespectful that FOUR full hours went by where they were together and you were home alone??!!!!!!! I may have read your post wrong, but I thought you said that your late appointment would cause you to have to meet them later .... then it sounds like you were just sitting home alone while they were out? I don't get that part.

Yeah, I consider it cheating if she led you to believe that they would not be having sex, then did without checking with you first to make sure it was ok.

And I really don't see where SHE gets off telling YOU that there are no more rules and things are just a free-for-all from here on out. THAT is TOTAL disrespect, IMHO.

Y'all need to step back, pull out of the lifestyle (if she thinks she can do it) and re-examine your priorities. Because if her priority is the lifestyle and not you and your feelings, then you have a lot more serious issues in your marriage than the lifestyle and the way it is handled.

[CB_n_Red]

Looks like possibly an initial failure to communicate, which could be called cheating (and maybe was), followed by a demand for a carte blanche for her to do as (and whom) she chooses, regardless of whether Naughtycool is into the idea.

the converstation that took place that night was that basically there are no more rules in (or out)the lifestyle and that I could do whatever I wanted with whomever and she actually challenged me to find a sex partner

That's the bit I would find most alarming if I were in those shoes. It appears she's basically saying that the prime relationship doesn't matter any more. She'll do her thing anyway. That "challenge" I would find most insulting.

I would suggest that a pause in the swinging might be in order, though given the above, I'm not convinced she would stop if it was asked of her. The fact that an earlier situation got "WAY too close for WAY too long" raises a lot of issues for the current situation.

Good luck! I fear you may need it.

CB

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by Naughtycool

...basically there are no more rules in (or out)the lifestyle and that I could do whatever I wanted with whomever and she actually challenged me to find a sex partner- So opinions please- I she sincere or just talking out her ass because she might have some guilt?

I think your marriage is going to hell in a U-Haul that's hitched to some other guys pick-up truck. I think she's drawn a line in the sand and dared you to cross it. I think if I were you I'd buy an hour with the best divorce attorney in your community and learn how to protect your assets. Then spend 15 minutes doing a brief consult with every other attorney that's worth a damn, just so she couldn't use them in the upcoming divorce. You don't have to file anything yet, just know where your vulnerabilities are, and what not protecting them could cost you.

But hey, that's just my opinion, and I'll freely admit that I'm not one who believes in rebuilding a relationship on a salvage title.

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

I am not so sure that it is cheating, though I do see your point, WP. I think this is a case of boundaries becoming far too lax.

It's cheating, because he didn't give permission for her to do it. "Communication" may be important to a relationship, but it should never come at the expense of consideration. It's not enough to tell your partner that you're going to do something that you know will hurt them. The question of whether their "boundaries are too lax" is moot, because she's already made it clear to him that no matter where his "boundaries" are, she's going to cross them with impunity.

You've been down this road with this woman before. It will only get worse from this point on.

Talk to the lawyer NOW, dude. You'll thank me later...

[Naughtycool]

Thanks for all the input- Yes we have swung separately before, together, threesomes, etc., etc.- but things changed greatly with the semi-exclusive single fuck buddy she had and since then I have taken all the steps necessary to end situations like that- too bad she still won't come clean - are you all ready? Says tht is was my fault for the way I reacted- NORMALLY - like any husband would that see's some single guy try to dominate time with his wife!!! At any rate- the lastest episode does show me that she is more interested in taking care of herself when it comes to sex- apparently in -or out of the lifestyle boundaries-- We have greatly slowed down our attndance at events because YES! we do need to spend time re-creating the passion for each other that we had at the beginning of our lifesstyle adventures- Too many unanswered communications about what she really wants- I told her that since by her actions it is obvious that she still wants to play in the lifestyle- but by her not having any commitment to re-set ground rules ( that she orignally wanted and then broke) forces me to not participate in the lifestyle- I agree- no commitment to communication or consideration and no rules- makes me a non-player- thanks to all for your input-
Naughtycool

[twoplayful2]

I dunno. My gut feeling is that even when she told you she would say no that she didn't really mean it. If this is true, there are big problems and JnCC might be closer to the target than even the mighty Spoo. I hope not though, good luck to you.

[seriously]

I see everyone wants to go on about your lack of communication...
To my mind, if you have been in the life style for 9 years then I bet you guys know a thing or two about communicating. My spouse and I have been ver-r-r-ry clear with each other on this issue. A lie of any sort about an issue like this is dangerously close to cheating. This is one of the dangers in the lifestyle: playing with someone without the other's consent even though you might have done it last Tuesday with consent is cheating in my opinion. If you want to keep this together tell her you don't want anyone else for the time being and think you both should just work on your primary relationship, i.e. stay way from others. See if she is willing to work to keep it together.

Good luck, I sincerely hope it works out

-Seriously

[montresor]

Yep, been there on this end too. Ms P and I have had periods of separate sex with trusted fuck pals and no problems -- "Sex Freedom Nights," we call them. But there have been a couple of occasions -- and we've both been guilty -- when we each jumped at an opportunity and gave little thought to the issue of letting the other know; guess we figured we'd straighten it out later. Some rather serious conversations resulted, and now we stay in touch if playing separately, even if it's like the other night when P called while I was working late to say she was out with co-workers and she might have sex with one of them she's done on previous occasions. Even then, we both felt a little funny because of the last-minute nature of it, and I think were both relieved when she ended up not having sex and coming home early. It seems to work better if we plan ahead and both have "something to do" that evening!

But the situation described above is certainly different from this. It's a challenge on her part, and, I think, one that's designed to disrupt the marriage.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by montresor

Even then, we both felt a little funny because of the last-minute nature of it, and I think were both relieved when she ended up not having sex and coming home early.

If you felt a little funny about it, why would either of you agree to go ahead with it?

I would think the wise thing would be to simply realize that there are other nights, better circumstances and less "funny feelings" in just saying "wait". If things make either of us feel even a little bit uncomfortable, we just don't do it.

Even if only one of us has that feeling - and even if we can't explain why we have it, it's just some gut reaction - we walk away from the situation. Every time we have done that, something later tells us we made the right decision. Open communication is sometimes saying "no" - open mindedness is sometimes being okay with hearing "no".

This is about US first. Not me - not her - but US. I am really baffled by couples who constantly miss that point and drift toward some rather rocky places.

Spoomonkey

[BodyScape02]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

If you felt a little funny about it, why would either of you agree to go ahead with it?

...

This is about US first. Not me - not her - but US. I am really baffled by couples who constantly miss that point and drift toward some rather rocky places.

Spoomonkey

I have to second Spoomonkey on this one... Me too …on both points.

She did not communicate with you darling` ... she threw you an ultimatum.

A " What are you gonna do about it" statement and then used coercion ( I.e. you go find someone too) to reinforce her choice. Those are communication tactics... but not ones I would call a dialogue.

She basically told you...she wants an open marriage... you are being cuckolded. If that is fine with you... then there you are... if not... you have to decide how much self respect you want to loose or how little of it you can live with. That is a very personal choice.

If you want her... you could perhaps try to woo her all over again and provide her with whatever it is she is missing in your relationship that makes her feel valid ( notice I did not say ..is valid) in her choice.

The only insight I can come up with is that , like many women, she may miss the seduction and excitement of when love is new. I am throwing that out there as a starting point for renewing your communication. If you work at making her fall in love with you all over again... well I don't know what woman doesn't love that.

Remember , loving her isn't necessarily "letting her take lovers" Make sure you remain her number one lover...never get lazy about that guys ( general request from me personally). I think it is what leads most women to go astray and end up becoming and adulteress.

Just a suggestion... darling...Only you can choose... only you two.

Best wishes...my heart bleeds for you.

Ms. Body

[LikeMinds321]

It's when I read an opening post like this one that I wish the wife was here to give her side of the story. It can make a difference, as I've seen before in other threads.

You titled your thread "wife has double standard" which says to me you feel she wants something that she won't allow you. What is that? Your post doesn't seem to match what the title suggests. Is the fact that she made the mistake of playing when she said she wouldn't what's really bothering you? Or could it be that you haven't found a special playmate like she has? Or maybe it's something else.

Whatever it is that's not quite right, my advice is be honest with yourself, look your situation squarely in the eye, and work from there.

Seeing the problem as one person's fault rarely works to the advantage of a marriage.

You are frustrated, she may be too, who knows what irritations you've brought into the swinging part of your life together. You've been swinging 9 years. You said "Not pised about the sex but the fact that I wasn't informed before she got down to the deed!" leads me to believe you two have allowed separate play over the years.

I think there is something more here. A bigger issue.

LM