When to drop the swinging subject...

[DBL D 120]

Hopefully there are a few lurkers or others who can answer this question:

 

How long would you consider promoting the lifestyle to your SO before you decided that either it was the worst thing you had ever decided to bring up with your SO or realize that it is just to much to handle and just drop the subject?

 

We have heard a lot about how to bring up the subject to your SO but what made you decide that your fantasy is just too much to deal with before you quit trying? I'm sure you have tried to be patient with your SO on this but there must come a time when you say it isn't worth it and go back to living your own frustrated life without the realization of your fantasies?

 

Male D

[girlsnboys 15]

You may want to abandon the topic, if its piqued her interest she will keep it on the backburner, this way you're not pushing the idea.

 

Back when we were gf/bf first we talked about it, he was more the one that was promoting it. I was open to the idea but we were so young and our relationship was still new. After having a couple of unsuccessful threesomes, we shelved the whole notion for a long time. After seven years we came back to it, and tried couples and swapping - it seems we had found our niche.

 

For me the best thing that happened was when he dropped the subject entirely. This gave me the space to think it about it on my own, and not feel swayed or pressured - or that I wasn't enough for my partner. Although it took a long time for both of us come around and understand where eachother stood, we're better for it and enjoying the fruits of the lifestyle.

[iapr 24]

As always I am reading between the lines here but I think you have more issues than when to drop the subject of swinging. To directly answer your question, now is the time to drop it. The fact that you are writing here says that you asked her and she didn't go for it so she has given you her answer regardless of what the exact words that came out of her mouth were.

 

No since you have used words like "back to your frustrated life" and "never realizing a fantasy" I would say that you still have some wild oats to sow and that maybe a life of monogamy with this particular SO is not for you. If you feel that strongly about it not only will it be making you miserable but you are probably making her miserable too in that she knows that she is keeping you from doing what you want to do.

[Second of 2 22]

... since you have used words like "back to your frustrated life" and "never realizing a fantasy" I would say that you still have some wild oats to sow and that maybe a life of monogamy with this particular SO is not for you. If you feel that strongly about it not only will it be making you miserable but you are probably making her miserable too in that she knows that she is keeping you from doing what you want to do.

 

[flkeyscouple 21]

Since the OP is DBL D, and DBL D posts about swinging with Fem D, I presume the question isn't about them as a couple, but thrown out there for discussion, or possibly as a 'hint' to someone they know??

 

Anyway, to answer the OP, I'd say that the progression of talking about swinging differs from one couple to the next. For us we talked about sex, not necessarily swinging, and had an experience in a voyeur/exhibitionist way. That led to much more talking, but also YEARS of ONLY talking. Had we not had that 'many years of ONLY talking' I'm not sure we'd have ever gotten to where we are now. Neither of us 'dropped' the subject - we always talked (and fantasized) but we didn't pursue it.

 

Again - differs from one couple to the next. Of course in our case, neither one of us was refusing - we were both interested.

 

Sarah

[NJCouple 16]

My husband has always shared his fantasies with me and I was willing to be adventurous to a point. I finally arranged a 3 some for our tenth anniversary as a surprise for my husband. Thats a lot of years of using it as a fantasy, but not acting upon it. We enjoyed fantasizing about our threesome afterward as well, but life got busy (I had a small business) and I gained some weight and was uncomfortable with the idea. It's been 15 more years. I've lost the weight. Hubby showed me a few sites like this to tease my interest again. We particularly like reading hot stories. Well, I set up some threesomes and signed us on to a few sites, etc. We've jumped in now and are having a great time. No-one should ever be pressured into swinging, but that does not mean that people do not grow and change as do relationships. We were married at 19 and were hardly mature enough to handle swinging. After twenty-five years of marraige, our trust and confidence in each other and our relationship is such that we can truly enjoy the lifestyle. I don't think you can place a time limit on this, but maybe instead of pushing to swing encourage her to share it as a fantasy by watching videos, reading stories, role playing etc.

Sharon

[DBL D 120]

Fem D here

 

We have been in the lifestyle for 3 years now.

I don't really know why I'm having such a hard time with it. It kills me to think that I'm keeping Male D from doing things he has dreamed of for years now.

I am feeling more comfy with all that goes into the lifestyle. It really is hard work to find couples that are all on the same page and sometimes it feels like that it's because I have done or NOT done something right.

If we write to a couple and every one is happy, try to make a date and they drop OFF. It's not my falt . I feel like I get the bad end of it because we lost them.

I feel like Male D is upset with me more than he should be because we have had alot of no thank you, or no messages at all.

We have had to take a break due to some health issues so it has been really slow. But I have to say it's always slow because of me anyway.

I do want to keep working on finding new couples and chatting with old friends when we can.

 

I'm sad to hear that Male D is so frustrated with our real life

Fem D

[aahours1 16]

The subject was brought up by YOU and I would presume a number of time. If you push to hard and NAG her about it, you might as well forget it. Take your time, bring her around by showing her what goes on at the socials. Then you do not have to go back to a room with someone. Get horney and take her back to the room by yourselves. Take it slow to her and let her make the decision to swing with another couple. When we 1st started my fiance' told me that if anyone else would touch her, especially a gal, she would put tjem in their place and hit them. Now we own a swingers club and have alot of fun doing the soaicls and going back to the room with others.

[flkeyscouple 21]

Fem D here

I am feeling more comfy with all that goes into the lifestyle. It really is hard work to find couples that are all on the same page and sometimes it feels like that it's because I have done or NOT done something right.

If we write to a couple and every one is happy, try to make a date and they drop OFF. It's not my falt . I feel like I get the bad end of it because we lost them.

I feel like Male D is upset with me more than he should be because we have had alot of no thank you, or no messages at all.

Fem D - it's not unusual at all to get rejections and lose some couples as you are getting to know them. There are all sorts of reasons. It could be that the other couple is new and gets cold feet, could be things just don't click, could be that things click so much that their jealousy kicks in... etc. etc. etc.

 

All of that is a natural part of getting to know people - even in the vanilla world.

 

Sarah

[rpu3 630]

Fem D here

 

We have been in the lifestyle for 3 years now.

 

I don't really know why I'm having such a hard time with it. It kills me to think that I'm keeping Male D from doing things he has dreamed of for years now.

 

I am feeling more comfy with all that goes into the lifestyle. It really is hard work to find couples that are all on the same page and sometimes it feels like that it's because I have done or NOT done something right.

 

If we write to a couple and every one is happy, try to make a date and they drop OFF. It's not my fault . I feel like I get the bad end of it because we lost them.

 

I feel like Male D is upset with me more than he should be because we have had alot of no thank you, or no messages at all.

 

Wow. I feel for you. I would not enjoy feeling like I am responsible for things not working out in our alternative activities.

 

The biggest lesson I have learned in our return to nonmonogamy is that this is a lot of work. It is nowhere close to simple to meet people in which everyone clicks. We have met with single men, and even that has been a lesson in that a good single person is a rarity. I thought this would be so simple to just have sex - and it's far harder than I ever experienced in my single dating life.

 

We do not hold each other or ourselves responsible if that "chemistry" or clicking does not happen. We do not blame each other or ourselves if we do not get a response or a rejection. It's just the nature of swinging.

 

We haven't had the best luck finding people truly compatible with our interests to date, either, save for one experience. Haven't had a bad time, but we want what we want. We may never really find it except on a rare occasion, and we accept that and we don't blame the other for not ever getting there, and we work together to decide our compromise points.

 

If you feel that you are being held responsible or blamed for the lack of activity, then perhaps you two should take a break and TALK about why you feel that way, why he feels the way he does, and figure out a way to accept that if you are hoping for a good swinging experience that it will take a bit of work, a LOT of patience, thicker skin, and even some luck. Feeling as if you are being blamed that it isn't working out just isn't going to do if this is a couple activity.

[DBL D 120]

Fem D here again,

 

It's not that he blames me for people not being interested in us. It's more like he thinks I'm being picky, and yes I am. Why not? If your going to f--- some one don't you want something that your attracted to as well.

Along with me being so slow,he tends to put it all in the same bucket and call it MINE.

Yes............he has desires that have not been met yet. He says it taking to long. Between my less desire and his what (I call a sex addiction) we are on our way to a very bad place in our normal lives if he really feels the way his wrote in the first letter.

 

We did talk yesterday,but at this point I'm not sure what was really decided on yet. I hope he will take time out to have more communication ASAP.

I don't hold back....I'm a talker and I want both of us to work on what we see the other could grow to be in a better place to make this work.

And NOT feel like its so f---ing hard on one or the other.

 

I really don't know what to do to help me feel more comfy and to ask him to back off and do some changing himself, but he dosen't see it that way. He wants what he wants and no one wants us. Again thats not my doings.

 

He would like me to be more verbal after we have been with a couple and I have been more and more. But why do I have to keep reminding how good I have been. It's because he hasn't had his desires met yet so he pissed.

 

I really don't know what to do. :surrender

 

Fem D

[sexcupid 809]

I really don't know what to do to help me feel more comfy and to ask him to back off and do some changing himself, but he dosen't see it that way. He wants what he wants and no one wants us. Again thats not my doings.

 

He would like me to be more verbal after we have been with a couple and I have been more and more. But why do I have to keep reminding how good I have been. It's because he hasn't had his desires met yet so he pissed.

 

I really don't know what to do. :surrender

 

Fem D

 

Hey there Fem D...just for my own curiosity (and some things that stuck out to me), what desires of his haven't been met? what is it that he wants that he's not getting? and what did you mean by "keep reminding how good i have been"?

 

 

Maria

[Second of 2 22]

Fem D here again, Yes............he has desires that have not been met yet. He says it taking to long. Between my less desire and his what (I call a sex addiction) we are on our way to a very bad place in our normal lives if he really feels the way his wrote in the first letter.

 

We did talk yesterday,but at this point I'm not sure what was really decided on yet. I hope he will take time out to have more communication ASAP.

I don't hold back....I'm a talker and I want both of us to work on what we see the other could grow to be in a better place to make this work.

And NOT feel like its so f---ing hard on one or the other.

 

I really don't know what to do to help me feel more comfy and to ask him to back off and do some changing himself, but he dosen't see it that way. He wants what he wants and no one wants us. Again thats not my doings.

Fem D

Oh boy, this is a lot deeper than I first realized. I have to side with you though FemD. In the first place there is nothing wrong with being picky. My wife is so I let her make the decisions. Of course it means we don't do it very often, but so what, when we do it's more special because you've taken the time to insure a better match.

I get the impression that DBL D is in some big hurry to just "do it". I don't see the point in that. I'd agree with you when you call it a "sex addiction". It also sounds like he has some special fantasy that hasn't been fulfilled. If he hasn't told you what it is then that sends off signals to me that he's not sharing what he wants out of swinging. Seeing that swinging is a "couples" activity I'm questioning his motives for this whole deal.

I agree, you need two-way communication quick, you need openness quick, you need honesty quick, or this scenario will become very hard to put up with.

Lastly, I'm more than puzzled by your comment "He wants what he wants and no one wants us." I would read into that, that the reason no one wants the two of you is because no one wants him. Am I reading this wrong?

I wish you well. You two have a lot of work ahead of you.

[TheDeal 117]

This is hard because I feel like there is no going back unless all agree. AND, it can't be because one is just frustrated with this or that.

 

When my wife brought up the LS to me, I FREAKING FREAKED OUT!!! I really went over the edge. I spent my whole life with physical insecurity issues. When was single; the way I dealt with those feelings, was by realizing I was more and had more to offer as a person inside. I thought, what makes me such a great lover is not the physical, but the intellectual and emotional. I knew that when I would sleep with someone, they were receiving my soul as I pleased them. Ok now, it worked for me! Of course this totally supported my friends first view of relationships (sex), and also allowed me to have only long term relationships. That of course led to me only sleeping with a few women.

 

Now, it's twelve years later and I am married to a wonderful, beautiful woman. She tells me that she has a fantasy of being with me and another woman, FMF. Yes, every other guy would be cuming in their pants, but I was SCARED shitless. I am attractive, well, I really think I'm just ok, but the wife thinks I am great.

 

So, as I see it I had two choices when she told me of wanting to be in the LS. One, say forget you I am too scared and even offended that you would want to be with anyone else. Or, think about what she was really feeling and try to achieve the same level of understanding. The bottom line was however, I felt I could not live with her knowing that she had these desires, but I was just too scared to try. I would always wonder if she was satisfied with our sex life or did she just do it to keep the peace. I HAD TO GET TO HER LEVEL. I am nearly there, but it was a long and difficult road. Also, (I have said this before) the lifestyle is not helpful at all for the guy with insecurities. We are still waiting on the perfect couple and we (both of us) have our doubts as to whether we will find one, BUT we are not going to lessen our requirements just to do it. WE are in this for the whole experience not just to find a couple human sex toys.

 

Let's face it folks. It's very hard for a couple to survive one really wanting to do the LS and the other not. There are no amicable options, either you both try to do it or one or both of you are going to have a fundamental problem getting past it.

[MoonLightKiss 28]

This is both Mr. and Mrs. we are sitting here together discussing our response to this because we too have this problem. I ( the Mrs.) am more picky about who we meet than the Mr. (Mr. here, she really is really really picky). And like you FemD, I sometimes feel as though the Mr. isn't having as much fun as he could if I was not so picky, then you add in all the rejections and it feels as if we go nowhere fast. I (Mrs.) feel as though I am holding him back and that he feels frustrated with me for being so picky. He has admitted sometimes he wishes I was not so picky. Honestly, its something we still work on. We know these negative feelings coming up are only going to hinder us further if we dont get em out and talk em out, so we are trying to work em out and are not getting involved with others for a bit right now.

 

What we have done to try and alleviate some of that, is look at profiles even though we are not contacting others right now. I explain to him why someone turns me off each and every time. Sometimes I just really don't like the way the male looks, other times I see the way they DON'T clean by the background in the pics, other times someone from the other couple will type something I find offensive or rude, and the whole time he is finding the wife to be hot and he cannot think past that sometimes. (In no way am I implying that DBLD does that) We have to sit down regularly and talk it out. Frustrating, yes it can be. But talking about it does help. He is starting to understand my reasons for rejecting others without even contacting them. For example, if I see someone's profile so full of rules and guidelines its like reading an instruction manual on how to launch a rocket, I turn it down without a second thought. The Mr.'s thought was "They know what they want and don't want, so they must be confident" My thought was, "That many rules and its possible they are so new they aren't sure about swinging, so either we will set a date they will skip out on, or we will get together to have fun and drama will ensue." Beginning to understand the reasons why is helping us alot. So my advice is to make sure you both understand the why's not just the what's. I hope this helps, and if I am way off base, my apologies.

 

Best of luck to you both. And I am sure things are going to work out fine.

 

Kisses,

Mr. & Mrs.

[TNT 1,155]

I don't mean to be insensitive with this post, I'm just having a hard time understanding what the big deal is here.

 

Swinging is not suppose to be something that causes strife, discontentment or frustration in a relationship. It's suppose to be (or should be) something that is done for fun...that little extra that adds excitement to an already great relationship.

 

What difference does it make if one half of a couple is a bit more picky with who they choose to play with or if it takes weeks, months or even years to find that "perfect" couple and/or single to play with? Don't ya'll have a great time with just each other? And, whatever happened to going at the pace of the slowest person?

 

Ted and I had a very slow swinging year last year (life is a bitch at times). There were times he wanted to play and I didn't and times I wanted to play and he didn't. Neither of us held it against the other. When one of us said we didn't feel like playing the other would always say okay, we'll just stay home and have fun with each other.

 

If you focus so much of your energy and time looking for playmates, complaining that you're not finding any and/or pushing your partner to increase their speed or comfort level, you're taking the chance of forgetting what a great thing you already have.

 

If you're not happy and content with what you've got chances are you won't be any happier with what you might find.

 

For those of you who are feeling frustrated because things aren't going as fast or in the way you would like...chill, it's not a race. As long as you are continuing to communicate, enjoying each other and the journey, things are okay...getting to a predetermined destination isn't going to be satisfying unless you've had fun along the way.

 

 

Teresa

[VanHlebar 187]

I have been reading this thread for the past few days and I have a couple of thoughts. Well first Dito to what Teresa just said. this is not a race to be won. If this isn't fun for the two of you then hey, why bother?

 

For the ladies that say they are "extremely picky" I have a question. Please folks don't flame the Stilfer on this one but how are you judging these folks? I ask this because as first MrsVan and I were having alot of disagreements on couples. I think alot of this happens at the beginning as the two of us were trying to figure out what the other found attractive in couples. Some here on this board at one point made a comment that has stuck with me ever since. Don't look at these playmates as if they were marriage material. You are not going to be marrying these folks, just playing with them. Once MrsVan and I talked about that we both realized that we might be judging couples by too tough of guidelines if you will. We still don't just jump in the sack with anyone, but we also look at couples and singles for that matter differently. So I was just wondering if maybe it is possible that you ladies are looking at your prospective playmates like you would if you were going to be spending the rest of your lives with them. Ok..now flame on I guess.

 

Also, if the guys fantasies aren't being met, well what can you do about it? Be more proactive about it or sit on the bleachers and feel sorry for yourself? Look I would love to have more FFMs but simple fact is, they are extremely difficult to pull off as single woman are just hard to find. So I don't cry about it, I am proactive and we do what we can to meet single ladies. When it happens it's great. MrsVan would love to have more MFMs also, but again we have found that finding a good single guy is just as tough. So again, we are proactive in sending out messages and putting ourselves out there to find them.

 

As Rebecca stated earlier, this is much more work than we thought it would be. We really thought it would be easy to find couples that would want to play. Fact is, it is not so simple and once we realized that, things got easier for us. Not easier to find folks, but we just go about it at our own pace and if something comes up great, if not, well we were together for 7 years before we got into this lifestye and our sex life wasn't ever bad to begin with. facelick

 

Take is slow folks...don't worry so much as to how much you are playing, but is the quality of what you are getting good? Also, you can't take any type of rejection personally. One thing the lifestyle has made both MrsVan and I do is grow some thicker skin, which isn't all that bad either.

 

-Van

[MoonLightKiss 28]

For those of you who are feeling frustrated because things aren't going as fast or in the way you would like...chill, it's not a race. As long as you are continuing to communicate, enjoying each other and the journey, things are okay...getting to a predetermined destination isn't going to be satisfying unless you've had fun along the way.

 

 

Teresa

 

You are right. Which is why we are really trying to communicate it out. I do not know about the DBL & Fem D but for us, frustration is happening, but its not a huge amount. Usually what happened is I said no, he would say geesh, any yes's at all? in an exasperated voice. The first few times I let it go and now I feel, oh whats the word, not pressured but maybe a little frustrated back, like maybe I am not picking out enough couples for us to get enough yes's to play more regularly than we do. But we are communicating and you are quite right about that being important. We are getting back on track as far as enjoying the ride, just taking a bit of time to get there fully. I have every confidence that this is just a hitch in the journey and that we will get through it. Which I might not have communicated clearly with my last post as it was 2 am I am also equally confident that the D's will be able to work past it as well.

 

Please folks don't flame the Stilfer on this one but how are you judging these folks? -Van

 

I would never presume to flame you Unless of course hot is how you like it

 

I don't think I am being overly picky. I try to avoid those that scream drama from their post, look for someone I try to have at least a basic chemistry with, and clean. Unfortunately in our area its VERY VERY slim pickings, and the nearest club (that we know of) is several hours away, so if we were to make plans to go there, they would have to be overnight plans, and its hard to plan ahead of time for that. Usually the grandparents don't know if they are able to take the grandkids til last minute.

 

But no, I am not looking for couples to "date" or even get to be best friends with. I like friendship, but I don't HAVE to have it. But a basic, yeah, I get along with, chemistry is there, I can carry on a conversation for more than 2 minutes without thinking they are an idiot or a jackass is about all I really gotta have.

[Fred&Wilma 15]

In brief:

- Married 30 years (Wahoo!!!)

 

- Been discussed off and on for almost 25 years. (First time, really?, ding, ding, ding!)

 

- Discussed rarely. (Oh look, a blue moon)

 

- Situation hot (Let's find someone else to screw around with)

 

- Situation cold (Too tall, too short, too whatever)

 

- Goes only as fast as the slowest partner. (If both of us do not agree, it is not going to happen)

 

- Sometimes open honest discussion. (Honey I would really like to try)

 

- Sometimes all sorts of innuendo. (Comments about alternate sexual partners, but non-specific)

 

- Sometime realistic comments and sometimes not. (Yes the average couple would probably be interested, but holding out for a Brad and Angelina type would not be fruitful).

 

It may not ever happen, then again it may and probably on a moments notice when it does. However if it does not, it will not be the end of the world.

 

Do not think I will ever throw in the towel, but will be realistic about it too.

 

Fred

[TheSwingerSet 205]

I also have been reading this thread carefully, the reason being is that I (male half) am the picky one, Leah is very go with the flow and can find attractivness in most people. I on the other hand usually need some kind of connection for everything to work right.

 

We have been active swingers for over 14 years and Leah does not get fustrated or upset when we can't find a couple or single fem that I am attracted to, we just have fun ourselves and and know that in the future we will have another chance to make that connection.

 

One thing that has helped us is I have no issue with her having her fun and then us going home or to our hotel room.... We can do this because I love to see her, hear her, watch her, giving and recieving pleasure.

 

Hope this throws some light on a situation that most couples in our experience face at one time or another.

 

K

[DBL D 120]

Well....Thank you to all who have taken the time to help us out.

 

First, I want to start out by saying. We have been together for 30 years.

We have the best sex we've ever had with each other and really do love one another.

The idea of the lifestyle came from him 3 years ago. I was VERY upset because I really thought our marriage was stone strong. Not realizing at the time that it wasn't that he was unhappy with me, he just wanted something alittle extra. I had my feeling hurt for a very long time, even as we entered the lifestyle.

We talked for 3mo. and 5mos later we played with our first couple. It was really hard for me to have sex or see him have sex with someone else. And YES........we should NOT have continued until I felt better.

I'm the type of person that want's to work and work till I get it perfect.

So here we are now and I feel like I'm still working and not having as much fun as I should be having.

 

This is what I think Male D is talking about it being so frustrating. So the fantasies that he may have are long in coming. That would be FMF, MFM, MMF,dp,and other things. I think you get the idea. I guess you would call it the norm in the lifestyle. All I can say to him is it will all cummmm with time.

Most of what he desires is fine with me, it's just ME getting comfy to get to that point. I'm still in the full swap couples page for now.

 

Now, you ask about reminding him how good I've been. I take little baby steps and to me thay have been BIG steps. So I can see how he thinks I'm taking so long. But my steps are good,postive, and will be larger as we keep looking and playing. And we all know how long it takes to find the couple that you really feel a GOTTA HAVE thing going on with.

 

Wev'e been talking alot this weekend, our communication can sometimes be BLOCKED for what ever reasons.

I have notice over the years that he does get his mind around something and wont let go until this kind of thing happens. That is something we have worked on together and I have to remind him that's whats happening and as you said TNT "CHILL". And focus that energy in looking around for new playmates or on us.

 

Male D is a good man, so if I have made him look like a bad guy .

That' NOT what I was trying to do here and I hope you all understand.

 

Thanks again to ALL,

Fem D

[DBL D 120]

I also want to thank everyone who has read and posted.

 

My question was regarding how long a person would continue to bring up a subject that just doesn't seem to hold the same interest to your SO.

 

When we hear that our SO is interested in the lifestyle but doesn't move as fast as we'd like to see, it becomes frustrating. Unfortunately, as you can see from most of my posts, I wear my heart on my sleeve. I do take advice on backing off, seeing what will happen, etc. But if I were to temper my feelings so that what I say isn't really what I feel, then I don't feel I get my point across.

 

Fem D and I are both Capricorns...we're both perfectionists and have different ways in dealing with that. Capricorns are also known for putting things off. I'd reached the point in my life where I felt pressure to do things I had always thought of and that's how the subject came up. I've always know that I was more adventureous than my wife and for that reason a conflict within myself started to develop where I started feeling like my life was slipping away without accomplishing those things, much like knowing that you would never get that higher postition at work or shooting par on a golf course, I started to have this feeling of doom...even though at the time Fem D and I were having the best sex of our lives and had a very nice feeling of stability in our marriage.

 

That's where the "frustrating life" statement came into it. Going back to knowing that I would, and therefore we would, never become sexually open with other people. In order to relieve that frustration that I felt and Fem D was feeling, for different reasons, I had suggested several times that we just stop the searching. I am willing to be frustrated. I am willing to become vanilla again for the sake of our marriage, which it seemed I was damaging by my requests of her to become more involved in the swinging part of it. It was a very personal frustration that I was willing to live with to have Fem D in my life. She would say that she wanted to go on and that I didn't recognize her progress and give her little pats for it.

 

My Bad!

 

Yes, we all have fantasies, obviously more or less, and different from each other. Fem D doesn't think about sex like I do. As often or anything like that, perhaps to protect something in our relationship. Now I'm a sex addict for wanting it. I do have a tendency to get totoally involved in something I'm interested in. That works for those things that don't involve your SO but when it came to dealing with our tastes in the lifestyle we seemed to clash on it. I damn well know that most of us have gone through that. I'm also damn well sure that other couples have or have had the same feelings of frustration with our SO on how to get the most out of this lifestyle without going crazy with it. I guess I'm totally envious on how some seem to take it so easy and others seem to struggle with it.

 

That is why I asked the questions. I wanted to know how long to go with it, even though I realize it's not a race. It does take up mental energy and I was wanting some inspiration or guidance on what we should do.

 

Anyway, once again I, and Fem D, want to thank everyone for their inputs. They have been helpful and Fem D and I have had some real and good conversation about what we're looking for. Me with my fantasies and her with just continuing to get more comfortable.

 

Male D

[sereneiders 263]

Hopefully there are a few lurkers or others who can answer this question:

 

How long would you consider promoting the lifestyle to your SO before you decided that either it was the worst thing you had ever decided to bring up with your SO or realize that it is just to much to handle and just drop the subject?

 

We have heard a lot about how to bring up the subject to your SO but what made you decide that your fantasy is just too much to deal with before you quit trying? I'm sure you have tried to be patient with your SO on this but there must come a time when you say it isn't worth it and go back to living your own frustrated life without the realization of your fantasies?

 

Male D

 

I appologize in advance because I didn't take the time to read the whole thread.

 

As for me, I once bring the swinging subject to my wife. Her denial was so strong that I dropped the subject without having to ask twice. I choose to play my/our fantasies among the two of us alone, and since I know there are many fantasies that are just that, and I can live without bringing them to reality, I just threw it in the "not meant to be fulfilled" bag.

 

My wife was the one who bring the subject back many years later, and as she told me, the fact that I threw it in that bag helped her to change her mind: she knew I had that fantasy and gave it up just to be with her, open to enjoy "watever was meant to be filfilled", she started having the same sort of fantasies and finally said "why not?".

 

I think "enough" is when you're hurting your spouse feelings, and "way more than enough" when you're risking your entire marriage.

 

However, it called my attention your last sentence (I put it in bold). At any time when I understood it was "enough", I felt something leading me to express it the same way you did.

 

We swing because we CAN, and not because we NEED to. If we were feeling we NEED to swing to "survive" or to avoid some frustration, they we would feel we're in deep sh*t, so much that we wouldn't be able to even try it without tearing appart our relationship.

 

And this is what my wife perceived from me: after many years she felt reasured that this fantasy of mine wasn't a NEED. She began exploring the same fantasies without being a NEED for herself. So, it didn't impose any sort of risk to our relationship to give it a try... we tried and we noticed we CAN.

 

The problem is, as soon as you put the frustration as the price for giving up your fantasies, you're only expressing a frustration that is already there, inside your marriage, between you two. And this isn't the proper place from where to start swinging.