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lonelyhedonist

Is what I want even possible?

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I'm currently married, but considering a divorce. Just looking for advice I guess. I have several friends who are swingers and when my wife and I were separated a few years ago I was dating a girl who is polyamorous.

 

My wife and I got married VERY young and got married after our freshman year in college. I was going to be a youth pastor. We waited until marriage for sex. It was the perfect storm of everything wrong with conservative America. I pretended not to have sexual attraction to anybody but her. Pretended not to find beauty through anyone but her, and pretended not to have a crazy sex drive and also hid a slight sexual attraction to men and some dom/sub fantasies. I'm also very into threesomes and foursomes. Love to watch and be watched.

 

Anyways, she hid a lot about herself too. She pretended to be more sexual than she was and by a few weeks into our marriage it quickly turned to once a month. We were both young and stupid and had no idea what a real relationship was. She told me 10 years after marriage that she sometimes gets depressed after sex. I told her 15 years after marriage that I'm a non monogamous person and would prefer an open relationship. Monogamy just seems counter to every feeling I have inside. I think I'm a giant free love hippie inside. lol

 

That's me and my situation in a nutshell. And of course she says she has no interest in an open relationship and finds it repulsive that I would ever want that. She has told me before that if it is really what I want then just leave and we will figure it out. I'm considering doing it. Not just for that reason, but for others. And because I feel like who I am at my core will never be accepted by her. She only knows a little bit of my sexual desires and doesn't really want to know all of them. She cant handle it. And she would definitely think less of me if she did.

 

So here is my question. I have this idea of a perfect relationship and I'm not sure how feasible it is. I'm kind of afraid if I leave, I'll never find anyone else that doesn't look at me like I'm crazy. I know there is no such thing as a perfect relationship, just wondering how far off I am. Y'all have more experience at this stuff than me.

 

I want a wife or girlfriend who I'm totally committed to. Who I love and who loves me. Who loves sex and sex with others as much as I do. Somebody who I can not just be 100% myself around, but somebody I can be 100% honest with. And we know and trust each other explicitly. But we fuck. A lot. And not just each other. We have people on the side, we seek out jot couples together. She tries to find females for me for threesomes and I try to find guys to fuck her. Either with me or without. I would love to find someone who was a bisexual switch and ok with the fact that I was also a bisexual switch. Somebody that one night I can be her cuck who is forced to suck a man's cock to get it ready for her and then made to take her creampie, and the next day I have her strapped to a bench and making her lick my sub friend's ass. And I want to be lovers, best friends, confidants and everything in between. I want us both to love being each others wing man and to high five each other when we score.

 

Am I being wildly unrealistic?

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Welcome to the forum, lonelyhedonist. And that is quite the introduction...thank you for sharing it with us.

 

As for your question, I don't think it's unrealistic but it might be difficult to find. The majority of people are still in a monogamous mind-set so finding someone who is not in that frame of mind can be difficult in itself. Then, there are those who are non-monogamous but aren't bisexual or open to it.

 

However, even if you do find this dream girl, being in a successful, committed, open, loving, respectful, trusting, and communicative relationship doesn't happen overnight. It will take time. It will take work from both you and her to work at it. A lot of swinger couples are together for decades before they are ready to embark on their swinging journey together. For them, it took all of those decades of being together and build that relationship foundation in order for them to get to a place where they can be open sexually about each other's fantasies and desires. Some things just can't be rushed.

 

Life experiences, the ups and downs, that the couples has gone through together showed them that they were there for each other. They were able to see each other at their best and worst. They deepened their trust and love for each other during those times.

 

Whether you and your wife get a divorce is between the two of you. Is there such a big enough gap that you two can't try to work through it and make it better? Have you talked to her about why she gets depressed after having sex? Perhaps her revulsion at having an open marriage doesn't stem from the concept but from the disconnect that she might be feeling from you. That is just speculation on my part. The only person that knows is her and as her husband, you both should be able to talk about these sorts of issues. If not, then these are the sorts of skills that every relationship needs to acquire in order to be successful. Even if you move on and find another woman to be with, the ability to communicate open and honestly, yet tactfully and respectfully, is paramount in being in a relationship long-term.

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Good points, and I suppose some of those "other" things I mentioned have a lot to do also with her inability to have those conversations. It is not for lack of trying from my part, that's for sure. I think she learned some crazy bad communication skills from her mother who is on her fourth marriage and on the brink of divorce again. But there is definitely something missing in our communication and I cant seem to figure it out. We just don't seem to get too far beyond surface level and when I try it just doesn't work. It is not enough for me. I need something much deeper. It is like she immediately goes into fight or flight mode whenever we start to get beyond surface level.

 

I should probably add that I believe she has personality disorder which is where I think most of this comes from on her end. And as for the open marriage thing, I don't think that will ever happen regardless. She personally doesn't operate that way, which is fine. I can be accepting of her just like she is. But I really don't see a scenario where she says, I'm this way and you're that way, and that's ok, go be with other people. As it turns out that is how the girl I dated while we were separated was. He had no desire for intimacy with more than one person, but understood she did and was ok with it. Of course it helps that they knew about and discussed all of that before getting married.

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Counseling. Get counseling. If you love her don't throw it away yet. The way you describe her it sounds like she has issues that she needs to work on and then the two of you need to work on.

 

If there is no love then it's up to you as to what to do.

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Of course there is love. But I'm not the type of person who thinks love is all you need. I'll never stop loving her. That's also not in my nature. I still love the girl I dated during our separation. Compatibility is the question here. And what we each need and want out of a relationship. I don't think she would ever leave me, but I do think she would be happier with someone else.

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Now that you know yourself, put the effort into finding someone who shares your desires and values rather than trying to change someone who doesn't (and likewise, be changed by them). You say, "I'll never find anyone else that doesn't look at me like I'm crazy." Yes you will, and she will be as relieved and happy as you will be. Best of luck setting out on your path.

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I'm currently married, but considering a divorce. Just looking for advice I guess. I have several friends who are swingers and when my wife and I were separated a few years ago I was dating a girl who is polyamorous.

 

My wife and I got married VERY young and got married after our freshman year in college. I was going to be a youth pastor. We waited until marriage for sex. It was the perfect storm of everything wrong with conservative America. I pretended not to have sexual attraction to anybody but her. Pretended not to find beauty through anyone but her, and pretended not to have a crazy sex drive and also hid a slight sexual attraction to men and some dom/sub fantasies. I'm also very into threesomes and foursomes. Love to watch and be watched.

 

Anyways, she hid a lot about herself too. She pretended to be more sexual than she was and by a few weeks into our marriage it quickly turned to once a month. We were both young and stupid and had no idea what a real relationship was. She told me 10 years after marriage that she sometimes gets depressed after sex. I told her 15 years after marriage that I'm a non monogamous person and would prefer an open relationship. Monogamy just seems counter to every feeling I have inside. I think I'm a giant free love hippie inside. lol

 

Yeah been there done that

 

That's me and my situation in a nutshell. And of course she says she has no interest in an open relationship and finds it repulsive that I would ever want that. She has told me before that if its really what I want then just leave and we will figure it out. I'm considering doing it. Not just for that reason, but for others. And because I feel like who I am at my core will never be accepted by her. She only knows a little bit of my sexual desires and doesn't really want to know all of them. She cant handle it. And she would definitely think less of me if she did.

 

Yeah hiding your sex life from your lover waste of time.

 

So here is my question. I have this idea of a perfect relationship and I'm not sure how feasible it is. I'm kind of afraid if I leave, I'll never find anyone else that doesn't look at me like I'm crazy. I know there is no such thing as a perfect relationship, just wondering how far off I am. Y'all have more experience at this stuff than me.

 

I want a wife or girlfriend who I'm totally committed to. Who I love and who loves me. Who loves sex and sex with others as much as I do. Somebody who I can not just be 100% myself around, but somebody I can be 100% honest with. And we know and trust each other explicitly. But we fuck. A lot. And not just each other. We have people on the side, we seek out jot couples together. She tries to find females for me for threesomes and I try to find guys to fuck her. Either with me or without. I would love to find someone who was a bisexual switch and ok with the fact that I was also a bisexual switch. Somebody that one night I can be her cuck who is forced to suck a mans cock to get it ready for her and then made to take her creampie, and the next day I have her strapped to a bench and making her lick my sub friends ass. And I want to be lovers, best friends, confidants and everything in between. I want us both to love being each others wing man and to high five each other when we score.

 

Am I being wildly unrealistic?

 

It is amazingly feasible. Learn everything you can and take charge of your own destiny. Use stuff like this board and others to move forward.

 

A journey on a thousand miles starts with the single step.

 

:welcome1:

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I can understand some of your angst...

 

But don't believe the internet, a swinger couple isn't boinking all the time. We have the same crap going on in our lives as all other people. There are the 20% of folks who do 60-70% of the action, with the other 80% doing the balance. Not everyone is independently wealthy and able to put their faces front and center for ads and complaining that people need to show their faces - some of us have vanilla friends, family, an d employers who wouldn't understand swinging or open relationships.

 

Unsure of you and your wife's ages, but change doesn't happen overnight. Do what's best for you but don't look back unless to be the best person you can be if you're a father.

 

Also don't be surprised if your leaving then flips a switch in your wife's psyche and she could blossom into a person you didn't ever know before.

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I can understand some of your angst...

 

But don't believe the internet, a swinger couple isn't boinking all the time. We have the same crap going on in our lives as all other people.

 

Absolutely right. We'd like to play maybe once a week, but with the reality of what goes on in real life, it's luck to be once a month at best.

 

And yes, it's improved our relationship & sex life, but we still have those weeks, where what goes on day to day still pushes out sex life aside.

 

Can't see that that will ever change.

There will always be the days that are overworked, requirements with children, and like this last week or so the impending arrival of a new grandchild for MrsZ,

something that has created considerable worry for quite some time.

 

Swinging or not those sort of things don't go away.

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Welcome to the board!

 

You know, you'd be amazed at how much you can do with an "unworkable" relationship. Mr. intuition and I were on the divorce bubble ourselves, but the dream relationship you described is exactly what we've grown between us now.

 

Counseling is an excellent idea. And I'd suggest giving her a wake-up call. You can let her know that you're seriously thinking of taking her up on her suggestion for a divorce, not because of her reluctance to let you fuck other people, but because you need a partner who is brave and honest enough to be able to handle the real you. Her inability to communicate - or rather her refusal to do so - is a deal breaker for you, so either she gets over her fight or flight bullshit and puts on her big-girl pants for adult discussion, or you have to leave. Because life is way too short to spend it with someone who makes you sad.

 

Sorry, I can be a little blunt. I do hope you can work some things out! I was very reluctant to get into the lifestyle myself at first; now I can't say enough about it. I also came from a pretty fundamental Christian background, so I know how that is. Like I said, it's amazing how much we can evolve, if we allow ourselves to.

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Of course there is love. But I'm not the type of person who thinks love is all you need. I'll never stop loving her. That is also not in my nature. I still love the girl I dated during our separation. Compatibility is the question here. And what we each need and want out of a relationship. I don't think she would ever leave me, but I do think she would be happier with someone else.

 

That's great to hear. Then don't throw it away yet. The foundation is still there for the relationship you both want. I even more strongly suggest counseling to look at the rest of your relationship to see if you can both change enough to be what the other wants. That is what you do for love. Relationships, out of love, have to have some compromise in them. If you can't change, or change enough and still can't be as happy as you want, even with the love, then you can decide to both move on for what's best for both of you.

 

She may very well be happier with someone else... But the fact that you say you don't think she would ever leave you tells me she needs some help in working through her feelings. She needs to understand herself... And until she does that... The two of you can't work on the together.

 

Good luck in whatever happens. I hope that both of you will be happy.

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We have tried counseling 3 times now. The last counselor told my wife open marriages never work, and everyone ends up hating each other. Then proceeded to tell me that even talking to people of the opposite sex was an affront to our marriage and I should never help, talk to, be friends with, go to lunch with or be around women.

 

Needless to say I thought she was a little nuts and we didn't go too many times after that.

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Yes. Not a good counselor.

 

Before you get into open marriage stuff you probably need to talk about a lot of other stuff. Communication would be one.

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Uh...:Welcome:

Swinging and open marriages are not the cure all/fix all that some people envision them to be. Before anything else can happen, there first must be trust, love and open communication. All of those take time to build and develop. Once that is in place, you most likely will have a great relationship even if you don't swing. Anyways, welcome to the board and take your time with your decisions. The grass is always greener but sometimes that green is just because of the huge amount of fertilizer that they are dumping on it.

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A lot of good advice here. I would suggest you need a relationship counselor, not just any shrink will do. They should be about to help you open up lines of communication as a disinterested third party. Your wife is kind of like mind and she shuts down when she doesn't want to talk about uncomfortable subjects. When you have communication established then you can start working on the sexual aspect of it. You were both lying (to yourself and the other person) when you got married, now it is time to straighten it out. You may still get divorced but when you will know it was an honest divorce and both know yourselves better. That should help resolve any hatred/blame that comes with divorce.

 

Marriages must have true intimacy in all areas and you do not. Any screwing around you do now will only complicate an impossible situation. Get help for both of you first from people who can really help and flush those with preconceived notions.

 

It is complicated, it comes across like surgery without anesthetic, but the transformations can be both beautiful and frightening. It is worth the trip but it is not fast.

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Thanks for all the thoughts and advice. I'm definitely not in the dark about how often playing would be possible. That is really not near as important to me as just knowing its out there and a possibility. The hunt is all part of the fun right? And the idea of being with someone who can talk to you about how attractive so and so was and how I fantasized about the girl at work. It is the little things.

 

And definitely wouldn't want an open relationship right now and told my wife that when i mentioned the idea. We aren't at a place currently where we trust each other enough to go there. And to be honest, telling her what I wanted made her trust me much less even though it should make her trust me more. I wish i could take it back and say I don't want an open relationship, but that's just not me. I think she, like many women, just wants me to lie and pretend that is not something I want and that I'd never want to be with another woman. But I don't want that shallow marriage where we both lie to each other.

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I think she, like many [people], just wants me to lie and pretend that is not something I want and that I'd never want to be with another woman. But I don't want that shallow marriage where we both lie to each other.

 

Yep. Pretty much sums it up. We gave up monogamy for radical honesty, and we never looked back. We had a brief mourning period for the loss of our "specialness" via monogamy, about a brief a send-off as saying a toilet-side goodbye to the beloved goldfish before flushing him. What we have now is just...bombproof. It feels that way to me, anyway. Now, for us, infidelity consists of any form of dishonesty with one another. So if I say I'm not attracted to someone and I actually AM attracted to him, that's me being dishonest. That's me lying to my husband, deceiving him, not trusting him to be okay with who I really am. I don't need much from Mr. intuition: just for him to always be honest with me, to care about and be kind to me, and to trust me enough to be vulnerable with me. Beyond that, the world is his oyster. Have at it!

 

Perhaps you could confront your wife with this observation, and let her know that this is not okay with you. Describe - without including any non-monogamous activities - what you wish your relationship with her looked like, as you described it for us. If you get to this place of emotional intimacy with her, monogamy becomes much less necessary, and you could potentially explore it together at that point. It's a ways off, though, just to be clear. And it's something you should offer to one another as a gift, not as something you ask for for yourself.

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Yes, honesty with the other person, and, in my opinion, integrity with one's self firstmost, is the foundation of the swinging couple's relationship.

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