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KuriousKitty101

Cold feet, or warning signs?

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Hey all,

 

I'm wondering if someone who has "Been there, done them" could give me some mentoring advice.

 

I'm the "wife" half. I came from a VERY conservative background - the first guy I kissed and fucked was my husband, although he came from a much more secular background. The Christian ideals of purity/sex within marriage/sex=love, in all of its various moods, etc, was/is very much a part of who I am. Or who I thought I was. (I'm now an atheist, but hey, some behavioral and psychological patterns are hard to shake).

 

I REALLY REALLY like the idea of swinging, gangbangs, the whole kaboodle. But the opportunity has come to do a full swap with a couple we connect with wonderfully on a personal level and all the rest, and ..... I think I have cold feet.

I keep thinking, "What if it's just not for me? What if I do this, and I suddenly feel dirty and disgusting, despite the irrationality of it? What if I look over and feel a heart-deep pain at seeing my husband fucking another woman? What if, what if, what if?"

 

I've tried talking to my husband about it, but he quite honestly tells me that it "does not compute." He doesn't understand why I'm afraid, and is getting very impatient with me, and I feel like in the process of him trying to help me reason it out, he's ridiculing the belief system that was integrated into my personality, and therefore me.

 

I feel really ashamed and broken, like my sex drive is somehow missing the final piece of the puzzle. I feel like I can't talk to anyone because, well, we don't have any older friends in the lifestyle yet. I feel like I can't talk to my husband, because he "wants to finish what he started" with this other girl/couple and as if he'd resent me. I'm trying to explore/transform myself and make us both happy with the result, but I feel like I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't at this point. I don't want to cause drama either way, and I feel disgusted and ashamed of myself for waffling when my head knows there's no good reason for jealousy, possessiveness, or one-cock-only-pussy.

 

Any advice? I'm sorry for the melodrama, but I'm really freaking out and kinda hating my latent vanilla-ness. Should I just grit my teeth and take the plunge? If it doesn't go well in the initial "aftershock," do I not share it? Is there some magical "you are now ready, young padawan!" point I should be waiting for?

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Guest FunintheSnow

I keep thinking, "What if it's just not for me? What if I do this, and I suddenly feel dirty and disgusting, despite the irrationality of it? What if I look over and feel a heart-deep pain at seeing my husband fucking another woman? What if, what if, what if?"

 

These feelings are not limited to those with religious backgrounds! My own first experience was only in May, but I had many of the same feelings beforehand. I mean, we can try to imagine how we'll feel, but after years of thinking the sky would fall if my husband so much as kissed another woman, how could I know how I'd feel about seeing him fucking one? Or how he would feel about seeing another man go down on me? Sure, he could *say* it would be hot, but what if he could never respect me afterward?

 

I wonder if your husband's impatience is making things worse. If I were in your shoes, one thing that might make me feel better would be the assurance that we would go slowly, with lots of checking in with each other, and that I could pull the plug at any time--no explanations needed and no resentment heaped on me afterward. Would it be possible for the two of you to agree to that?

 

You've probably heard that swinging goes at the pace of the slowest person. I don't think you need to pressure yourself to speed up! Perhaps the others need to slow down. If you have become comfortable with this couple, have you told them anything about how you feel?

 

All that said, I don't mean to sound down on your husband. I've sometimes been the more impatient one (I'm the wife), and dang if one of the pressures I put on myself isn't feeling a social obligation to the other couple because we'd built up their expectations! But hey, each couple needs to focus on what will work for *them*--both of them--and not the other couple. You aren't married to those other folks, no matter how great they are.

 

Hope this helps, but remember I'm not very experienced!

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Guest sandraandalex

Well, your spouse is not allowed to be impatient with you. The marriage comes first. Also, you move at the pace of the slowest participant. Which is you. Since he's become impatient; not putting the marriage first and not moving at your pace, you, as a couple, should not be Swinging. Again, maybe you'll get there, maybe you won't: The marriage comes first.

 

Next: Religious or not, I simply cannot comprehend that if there is a Creator of the vast Universe that it would care at all who you had sex with.

 

When we first tried Swinging, we both wanted to try it. We didn't hedge, we didn't wonder, we went and did it with a no crime , no foul attitude if it turned out to be a bad idea, so what. Yet, make no mistake, if my husband had shown the slightest concern or hesitation, no way would I have gone forward. Being a bit anxious about any new experience is normal, but you still have to want it enough that any anxiety is overcome. We were also fortunate, at the Club we met this amazing couple and less an hour later I was naked and having an incredible time. Yet, it was an experience I wanted to have and it still stands as some of the best sex I've EVER had and I've had some great, so hot the paint peels off the walls, so good the neighbors need a cigarette, sex.

 

I've said my peace.

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I'm really freaking out and kinda hating my latent vanilla-ness. Should I just grit my teeth and take the plunge?

 

No, No and No you should not take the plunge. Embrace your vanilla-ness!

 

Myself and Mr G have been in the LS for a few years and I still get the what ifs. Over time I've realized that the 'what ifs' are my way of telling myself that I'm not on the same page as Mr G right now.

 

Back in the day when we used to go to private parties I would leave the house telling myself "It will be OK it's just cold feet" but now looking back I knew it was more than that and when I plunged, the aftershock was weeks of anger, arguing and resentment on my part that Mr G seemed to be running way ahead of me! and frustration on his that I had dangled a carrot again and then snatched it away every time he went to take a bite! This will rock your relationship!!

 

The only time we go out and about meeting folks from the LS today is when I can look him in the eye and say, I'm ready, I want it and his reply needs to be "I'm FOLLOWING you!"

 

I am the vanilla one in our marriage, I'm the slowest, and the only time it's fun for both of us, is when it happens at my pace and with the knowledge that MR G embraces the fact that I'm vanilla!

 

It's not sexy or desirable in your marriage to feel like you are the freak for not being able to keep up.

 

Be transparent, hide nothing and stop hating yourself, vanilla is the best flavor xx. Our site name by the way is 'Glida' which is Hebrew for 'ice cream'.

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Hey there,

 

Thanks!

Well, your spouse is not allowed to be impatient with you. The marriage comes first.

 

I feel the same way. I'm also impatient with myself, which leads to some very unsettling scenes for bystanders if they see me telling myself that I'm not allowed to be impatient, yadda yadda. ;-)

 

Humor aside, we've been working through soft-swap for the better part of a year, with the mentality of "Have the experience so you know what's real or not about what you think it is," and I've *loved it* as long as I've felt like my husband has been actively rooting me on and keeping tabs on me. (If that's not too pathetic? It sounds pathetic). I keep ramping myself up to it, getting close to take-off, then in the days or hours before, having second thoughts, aaaaannnnd back down we go, back to the starting line for another round. I'd like to think it's not as bad as I've made it sound, but it's taken the better part of a year and if I'M impatient with myself, I can only imagine hubby's "are we doing this or not? Because I'll get over my hormones in a few days if we're not, but I'm getting the feeling that you don't really actually want this and I'm tired of feeling like I'm the one pushing you, or making you do/be someone you don't want to do/be."

 

Should I continue to think about this deeply, philosophically, until I feel like I really know myself and I'm okay with the Big Picture Philosophy and How This Changes The Definition of Sex And Making Love, talking through each and all of my fears about this, etc, or just put blinders on and say "you're trying to apply vanilla-world rules to the lifestyle-world. It doesn't compute. Have faith in the fact that you liked getting eaten out by another man and liked seeing another woman suck hubby, and actually have the damn experience!" ?

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KuriousKitty101-

 

You sound very conflicted, my friend! I hear how you're excited by the possibilities, and am hoping that the excitement you described is present organically within you, rather than being received from your husband. If it's not a genuine excitement, curiosity, and desire coming from within yourself, then it may be time to set the idea of swinging aside.

 

But let's assume that a part of you is feeling a hunger to do this. The other part of you, the voice that is telling you that this is wrong and disgusting, is something that my wife heard as well at a point early on. The voice she heard happened to be her mother's, sitting there in her head and telling her that she was wrong and dirty. She. Was able took vet met hat voice by remembering that it was her life, that it was hers to live in any way she wanted, and she wanted to experience the adventure of swinging! There was also an element of "carpe diem" in her thinking (and mine), of wanting to experience this while we could, and feeling like the clock is ticking for all of us- so let's do this thing sooner rather than later!

 

As to your questions, doubts, and hesitations, you may already be aware that most everyone has these doubts at some point. As the newly-wizened FunInTheSnow said above, you can never really know for sure how you'll feel about things until you're in the situation. It definitely requires something of a leap of faith for you and your husband, as well as an agreement between you two to see how you feel afterwards, talk it over carefully, and agree that you will not do it again if either of you did not like how you felt watching your spouse having sex with another person. If you agree take that chance together, not to hold anything against each other, and stop if anything happens that you really don't like, then that may act as a kind of safety net that can reassure you that you can have this experiment without causing any damage to your relationship. Based on what you've said, I tend to think that you are pretty close to the point of your curiosity and desire overcoming your hesitations, and my encouragement to you is that it may be time to "just do it". So one message here is: prepare yourselves as best you can, then hold hands and take the leap together!

 

OK, having said all of that... Your husband cannot help you to get "over the hump" (sorry...) by being impatient! He needs to be an encouraging, but patient, cheerleader. If he's applying pressure on you, or making you feel guilty for the pace you're taking, it is only hurting things for you both.

 

I agree with those who recommend that he back off for a bit, and let you take the lead for a while. You will hopefully feel more comfortable that things are in your hands, and moving at the pace that you set.

 

Keep talking to each other, keep having fun, and let us know how it goes!

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I feel like I can't talk to anyone because, well, we don't have any older friends in the lifestyle yet.

 

You have a BUNCH of friends in the L/S...look above. As for the religious upbringing...been there as well and it is NOT easy to just set it aside. It's PART of who you are, and that's both a good and a bad thing. There is a thread here somewhere talking about religion and swinging (use search) but the old testament is full of multiple wives and all sorts of debauchery. In the end, it is just something that you will need to come to terms with. Either you can or you can't...done. I wish I could give you more advice on this and if you would like to talk more about it, please send me a private message.

 

As for you husband, that is a completely different story. This is a TEAM sport. If either of us had doubt or wanted to stop...we are DONE. While we have had a WONDERFUL time doing this and had experiences I never thought that I would ever see outside of my imagination, we are both more important than anything that we have experienced or will experience. We would walk away in a second if either of us wanted to and take only great memories, but neither of us would ever think about looking back. That you are even willing to consider doing this with your husband should be a fantasy-come-true for him. This is a bell you cannot un-ring...a Pandora's box that you cannot un-open. This WILL change everything...either for the better or for the worse, and is something that you should NEVER take lightly. Being careful should be a requirement. Since he is being less than understanding and (either unknowingly or not) pressuring you is a bad thing. There's a REASON it has been said over and over and over: move at a pace the slowest member is comfortable with...because moving any faster is a VERY BAD THING. Since it seems that he doesn't want to talk about this and can't understand your hesitancy means that NEITHER of you are ready (NEITHER meaning he isn't ready either, he just doesn't know it). You are doing the right thing here, don't stop, don't give up (hey, is this advice coming from a swingers website telling you NOT to swing...seems kinda weird but yes).

 

There is a disconnect between the two of you that needs to be fixed before you continue. You both need to work on your communication (remember, team sport). Love, trust, communication, you need an excess of all three. Right now the communication is not where it needs to be and that can lead to a shortage of all three. Until you are both ready, neither of you are ready. Bring him here, show him this, then talk. Moving forward you should both want to be careful, but curious...not afraid or pressured or worried or concerned. If both of you are not of this mindset, then you are not ready yet (and there's always a chance that you may never be). Don't do anything you are not comfortable with. If he can't understand this, then yes it is a warning sign. Good luck and let us know how things continue to go for the two of you.

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How did you feel/what did you feel, then, if/when you did your first full swap?

 

My internal dialogue was,

Am I going to keep up?

Everybody else is able to find themselves and i'm a freak!

Why is Mr G so frustrated with me when I say no?

Am I enough?

Am I just hand luggage?

Why aren't my fantasies included?

Why do I feel like i'm following him when he should be following me or at least want to follow me.

 

 

When we did finally (plunge) It was a lottery. I could never get over this feeling that it was all about what he wanted, and not what I desired. I felt invisable!

Yes i liked meeting couples/playing with a few and parties but not all the time and when I left the house, it was not with the intention of fucking people but rather getting to know them, flirting, build some connection, laugh, enjoy the company of new people, kiss maybe, touch maybe but 80% of the time a soft erotic evening was enough for me. (vanilla) I didn't need to fuck 3 strangers to feel like I'd succeeded.

 

Mr Gs response was 'Why go out if you have no intention of fucking people!' which just sounds ridiculous now. There felt like there was an expectation!

 

We're in a much better place today and that has only transpired through being honest with myself and MrG about all of the above and being ok with the fact that I am who I am and know what works for me but that only came through experience and honesty. We date hardly ever, we sometimes go to clubs mainly to dance, mingle and fool around with each other but the difference now is that we talk about it and play with the idea more so than we actually do it physically so when it does happen, it's new, exciting and we are on the same page.

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Playing the other side here, I can see why your husband is frustrated. It sounds like he's been fairly patient in moving slowly for the better part of a year...easing into soft swap and being content enough with that up until now. Guessing that you've both talked about your hesitation ad nauseum and he's just ready to take the next step. I could see why he's anxious to get in the deep end.

 

All that being said, have you figured out why you are avoiding full swap? Some people never get beyond soft swap and that's ok. Only you can answer this question...maybe it's your upbringing...maybe it's fear of change in your relationship? Have you considered giving yourself permission to try it? Yes, it will change things, it will change you and the way your think. However, it will also present some truths and either confirm or diminish your fears.

 

I promise, I totally agree with all the others' comments about your husband needs not to pressure you, a couple should move at the pace of the slowest person, swinging is a team activity. BUT, allowing yourself the freedom to try new things and new experiences is - well - freeing.

 

I'd recommend some deeper self evaluation and if you come up with "these are all unfounded fears" then give it a try with the agreement that there's no reprisal and if you don't like it, then you both go back to what you were enjoying (soft swap)...or stop altogether.

 

I am NOT a psychologist, but I've gotta believe that living in fear of the unknown - isn't healthy for anyone. Maybe you'll find a lot of answers if you do more than dip your toes in the water. Yes, it's gonna be cold and wet...but it could also be exhilarating and fun.

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Guest sandraandalex

Well, sometimes you simply have to have the sex to get to the SEX. That being said, nothing changes and everything changes. Whether it's for the good, as it is in my case, is a choice I leave to you.

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