Newbie emotional breakdown

We recently played with a newbie couple and it was their first time doing full-swap swinging. They were certainly nice enough and from our conversations, they had thought out and talked about swinging between themselves. Everything was good until the very end, when the wife half of the couple had this what-have-I-just-done wide-eye look, and started sobbing uncontrollably. I tried to calm her down and talked to her, and it seems she felt guilty and incredulous about the full swap. She told me she had only one-on-one sex before and then only with her boyfriends or husband, and she was simply overwhelmed by the whole experience. I don't think she expected to have these emotions. The next day, she apologized for "freaking out" and I told her there is nothing to apologize for.

 

We generally don't shy away from playing with newbies. Everyone has got to start somewhere. And when we do play, we make sure there is plenty of communication and we ask frequently if they are ok with whatever we are doing. Although I don't remember feeling this way on my first time (but then I lived on the wilder side sexually even before marriage), I certainly understand it. It's hard to prepare for this kind of emotions and I really felt bad for her.

 

Has anyone had similar experience with someone new to the lifestyle? As play partners, any suggestions on how to make it easier for newbies to handle the emotions of swinging for the first time? And for those women relatively new to the lifestyle, did you have one of those what've-I-just-done moment on your first time?

I saw it too close to home.

 

During our first swap my wife was totally enjoying herself. Friends of ours had seduced us and the husband was a guy she really liked and had a crush on anyway..., I could tell. They spent the night and we all, including my wife, were still smiling at breakfast.

 

They weren't gone but a few minutes when I asked my wife if she enjoyed what happened. She burst into tears. It was totally unexpected for me.

 

We had more experiences and, like the first time, she seemed to be totally enjoying herself. But each time she would have depression the next day or so. I began to wonder why she kept coming back for more and she finally just admitted that she just couldn't handle the 'afters'.

We had more experiences and, like the first time, she seemed to be totally enjoying herself. But each time she would have depression the next day or so. I began to wonder why she kept coming back for more and she finally just admitted that she just couldn't handle the 'afters'.

 

We're new, about 2 months in, we have had full swaps and 3ways. I am the same way. I'm fine during and after, its the next day and week following that gets me :/ How does your wife deal now...does it get better? I just keep telling myself all this takes time...

Are you guys both in this together or one doing it for the other? As long as you both communicate your feeling to each other, everything should get better and easier with time.

Well, yes. Something very similar happened with my wife and I. The new-at-it couple seemed eager and confident up until the moment that the woman and I became horizontal. Her eyes glazed over, she became silent, and eventually curled up in a fetal position and cried uncontrollably. I could not think of what to do. But I think my reaction was better than her husband's.

 

When my wife and I had recovered our whits, we suggested, "let's get out of here, go find some place to sit down and talk." This was just to get them both of them out of our house before anything really bad happened.

 

Discussing the event later with my wife, we discovered that we both had the same thing in mind as this drama unfolded -- that we would never again be trying it with this particular couple. We will go a certain distance with new people but we know that we cannot fix everybody's problems.

I once witnessed a drunken fight at a get-together in which it was the husband who couldn't handle whatever had happened. The wife had been in the lifestyle before and was the one bringing him in. He evidently was one of those guys who was quiet and just slowly getting sloshed until he saw her having too good a time and then we got the pleasure of watching the two of them air ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL their issues........and I mean all of 'em. Nothing like having two people get started on the path to divorce court when everyone else is having a good time. Luckily, most of the other couples/people there were experienced lifestylers.

 

Because if there would have been anyone who was a newbie or on the fence, it would have freaked them out.

I think there is a bigger issue, here. Separating sex and emotion. At least, that was the first thing I thought of. How is someone expected to have sex with someone else with no iota of emotion? Maybe that dehumanizes us, but I don't think so. Sex is sex. Making love is an entirely different issue.

Discussing the event later with my wife, we discovered that we both had the same thing in mind as this drama unfolded -- that we would never again be trying it with this particular couple. We will go a certain distance with new people but we know that we cannot fix everybody's problems.

 

I guess I have two thoughts. My selfish thought: are there any red flags to look for before playing that might indicate this kind of problem later? My sympathetic thought (@Mxcouple87 and ViSexual): any ideas what made the "afters" difficult to handle? was it a guilty feeling? I'm just trying to understand what emotions were stirred up and maybe what caused those emotions?

How does your wife deal now....does it get better? I just keep telling myself all this takes time.....

 

To answer you, and ASNCPL, I think it had to do with her mother. Now, personally, I loved her mother more than my own but she was certainly a sexual woman. And, as much as her mother probably tried to encourage my wife to be a more sexual person, it seems that it might have given her even more inhibitions than a strict upbringing would have.

 

As far as how she dealt later on..., well, we did get back into soft swinging about 20 years after our swapping and she handled that fine. I guess it was more that she had trouble dealing with full swaps or that she was just a bit more mature the second time.

 

Interestingly though, that was 15 years ago and now she's quite happy not having sex at all, with anyone, including me. Oh well, at least I have the memories and my diary to keep those memories in.

I think there is a bigger issue, here. Separating sex and emotion. At least, that was the first thing I thought of. How is someone expected to have sex with someone else with no iota of emotion? Maybe that dehumanizes us, but I don't think so. Sex is sex. Making love is an entirely different issue.

 

Great point, which gets a lot of discussion in many threads under different guises. Some are the strict "sex is sex" swinger issue where they avoid, or try to avoid, any hint of emotion. Others, like us are poly, who think that either don't have sex unless there is an emotional or romantic connection, or are willing to allow what starts are pure sex take an emotional course. Whether that "divides" love and diminishes it for the original partner, or does it multiply it? And the question of whether it may be only the "new toy syndrome" where good sex with a new partner will be a short-term obsession with no long-term consequences. Plus, all these things must be analyzed from a number of perspectives: what is happening to one's own emotions and attachments, one's spouse's, the sex partner's, the sex partner's spouse, one's spouse's partner's spouse, etc. This is not to say all of these things are negatives. There are lots of discussions around the positive aspects of how we feel about all the permutations of what is going on in our heads. But what makes this Swingers Board so active, interesting and useful can be reduced to the interplay between sex and emotion. If it were simply sex, we wouldn't need to have so many discussions about the joys, dangers and experiences; and it wouldn't be anywhere near as much fun.

I guess I have two thoughts. My selfish thought: are there any red flags to look for before playing that might indicate this kind of problem later? . . .

 

Well, in regard to the incident that occurred with my wife and I, there were signs. But they only became visible in the light of hindsight. We had enjoyed two different summertime outings with this man and woman. They were sociable and confident. Neither seemed to be coercing the other. In looking back, each time the subject of sex arose, she diverted the conversation. But I did not perceive this as odd at the time.

 

Here's a recollection that might help in the understanding and suggest a strategy. Right after the woman froze in terror, her husband mumbled a strange apology, "sorry, this has happened before." We have, subsequent to this happening, asked a greater number of questions and questions more probing and personal while becoming acquainted with prospective play partners. But mainly we have developed something like an eighth sense.

But mainly we have developed something like an eighth sense.

 

 

It's called "Spidey Sense" and is known as a superpower for a reason - few have the foresight.

Everything was good until the very end, when the wife half of the couple had this what-have-I-just-done wide-eye look, and started sobbing uncontrollably. I tried to calm her down and talked to her, and it seems she felt guilty and incredulous about the full swap. She told me she had only one-on-one sex before and then only with her boyfriends or husband, and she was simply overwhelmed by the whole experience. I don't think she expected to have these emotions. The next day, she apologized for "freaking out" and I told her there is nothing to apologize for.

 

While certainly awkward to witness, I don't know that I would automatically assume that this was necessarily something she saw as a negative, was instantly experiencing strong regret, was horrified at herself, or whatever. Some people just handle overwhelming situations differently, a good example would be crying when you are happy. Some cry tears of joy, some don't. I'm in the don't, so when I see someone crying, I automatically assume something is wrong when in fact that isn't necessarily true. Your first experience is overwhelming, and everyone is going to deal with it a little differently as they try to process it in their own way. Some may be chattering with excitement, some quiet and withdrawn, or whatever mechanism they use to deal with unfamiliar things. What did she say the next day when she apologized?

I am with LFM2 in that I think there is a bigger issue here when it happens but not necessarily about separating emotion/love from sex. There could be a lot of reasons why this reaction might have happened...sometimes someone thinks they are ready when they really aren't. If someone has a traditional marriage equals monogamy upbringing that can be pretty hard to overcome for some people. And if they came from a religious home, it can be even more difficult. Maybe the attraction isn't there or something turned them off and they don't know how to proceed. And perhaps there is too much new information/emotions running through them to process.

 

For us, we were both ready to try and we both played together on the same bed. If we had played separately that first time, I wouldn't have been comforted by Mr. Sun's presence. Not to mention that it is very intimate being able to hold each other's hands that first time while experiencing the first time swinging. If at any time I felt that Mr. Sun had been doing this just for his curiosity and I was in it just for him, I can see myself having that "What have I done?" reaction. If I hadn't read and researched here on the forum before our first experience, my mind would not have been in the right frame of mind to swing.

I've always had an unapologetically experimental mind about things, sex included. So no, there were no crying jags or bouts of guilt. It helped that Mr. intuition897 and I had something of a marital blow-up not long before we started swinging, so we were essentially starting with a clean slate and complete honesty.

 

A friend of mine decided that she "had" to give in to the idea of a 3some with her husband and another woman. She's no prude, far from it, but she is as vanilla as they come. She forced herself through the encounter with the help of a mickey of vodka, and came out the other side so badly scarred by the experience she's only just getting over it a year later. She's telling me about the circumstances involved and I'm just sitting there shaking my head, dumbfounded. It was the perfect storm of nothing BUT red flags. Her husband's deployment was imminent. He was suffering PTSD so he was obsessed with the idea of a 3some. The got involved with someone she worked with. This other woman was a psychotic vampire bitch who got off on the pain she caused my friend. Oh and the alcohol. Never a good thing when you have to be so drunk to get through it that you can only remember it in bits and pieces, and you have to get your husband to tell you the rest.

 

The first couple we ever met were the reason we started developing red-flag radar. We met for dinner at their house. The kids were home. The guy was a complete asshole and treated his wife like shit. His wife wore a painted-on smile that didn't make her look happy, and she explained that he was just going to cheat anyway, so he might as well bring it home. Good times ahead, right?

 

I don't know, I don't think there's much you can say in those situations that will help. We're almost complete strangers to this person, on about the same level of intimacy as someone you met at the bus stop or in line at the grocery store. It doesn't mean we don't care. It just means we have no history together. I would say you could defuse the situation by, of course, stopping any play right away, by assuring them that you're not offended, that their outburst is understandable and this sort of thing happens. Offer a glass of water (no alcohol). Offer them bathrobes (they are probably feeling pretty vulnerable right now). Let them both know you care that one or both of them is upset, show respect for their relationship by not intruding, and suggest a quiet, neutral place where they can collect themselves and talk. Let them know you're both right nearby if they need anything. Basically just switch gears back to the non-sexual. Hopefully it reminds them that you aren't monsters or bogeymen, that you're just ordinary people and there's nothing threatening about you.

 

Even better is to avoid this kind of blow-up altogether...if possible. Watch for red flags, address them, and if they can't be resolved, move on. There's no point pushing to get involved in an encounter anyway if this is end result.

Oh and the alcohol.

Since the alcohol and drugs issue comes up regularly, an aside: If there is one way in which we all and the couple we play with are all exactly the same, it is nearly the near total avoidance of alcohol (half a beer/wine at most) and the complete avoidance of drugs. We have nothing against it, and in some ways I wish that I could enjoy a couple of drinks, but none of us likes the loss of clarity and control. I don't know about the rest, but for me there is insecurity and fear, even when I'm among my most beloved intimates. And did I mention, loss of control?

What did she say the next day when she apologized?

 

She thanked us for a great time and explained she was flooded with emotions at the end and freaked out. She didn't know why but felt "something wasn't right." Not exactly illuminating, and I wasn't about to push for an explanation. With them being a total newbie, we did ask a lot of questions and I think Sun got something here: She was brought up to think marriage is monogamous and as far as I could tell from our conversations, her only sexual experiences were one-on-one with a significant other. I can see how that would be hard to process when you swing for the first time. Maybe she thought she was ready but I don't think she could erase years of sexual conditioning overnight.

I tend to take a more direct approach and simply say that I recognize their need to talk and be together and suggest they leave and do so. Honestly, I have no desire to be anything other than kind. This is their issue that they have to work on together, no matter the reasons, and I personally am not part of the problem... or the solution at that point.

Wow that sounds bad. We haven't run into this since the other couples we swap for screwing have had pretty open & active sex before us, even if it is the first time for adultery after they been married.

She didn't know why but felt "something wasn't right." ...She was brought up to think marriage is monogamous and as far as I could tell from our conversations, her only sexual experiences were one-on-one with a significant other. I can see how that would be hard to process when you swing for the first time. Maybe she thought she was ready but I don't think she could erase years of sexual conditioning overnight.

 

If you're brought up this way, as I was, it means that there is a choice to be made at some point. When she walked through that door into the world on non-monogamy, where she can no longer say that her husband was her one and only, it's a part of her life that she had to say goodbye to. It was a conscious choice she had to make, and it is irreversible. I know it may seem trivial, but for anyone brought up this way, it can be a very emotional and significant moment when you realize what you just did. It didn't affect me very badly, and my husband was not my first. But just the same, there is a moment of sadness when you have to say goodbye to monogamy. We wouldn't choose any other way, though. Totally worth it.

When she walked through that door into the world on non-monogamy, where she can no longer say that her husband was her one and only, ... it is irreversible.... I know it may seem trivial, but for anyone brought up this way, it can be a very emotional and significant moment when you realize what you just did. ...there is a moment of sadness when you have to say goodbye to monogamy.

 

Wow, that was kind of enlightening for me. Do you think it matters whether the married person ever had two sexual relations going on at the same time prior to getting married? For me at least, having two guys going at once before getting married seemed natural, so continuing after getting married seemed equally natural.

Wow, that was kind of enlightening for me. Do you think it matters whether the married person ever had two sexual relations going on at the same time prior to getting married? For me at least, having two guys going at once before getting married seemed natural, so continuing after getting married seemed equally natural.

 

I think it's a culturally learned value, one that I was certainly taught, that monogamy was the only "right" way to do a relationship. Anything other than monogamy meant you were a selfish, immature, uncommitted a-hole, it wasn't a "real" marriage/relationship, it was imperfect/corrupted, you weren't trying hard enough to "keep" your mate, etc., etc. And yet, regardless of my upbringing, it was difficult to not follow my instincts. In other words, if I didn't have to worry about the parentally installed guilt software in my head, or the social wranglings of being flagged as a whore/slut/a-hole, I wouldn't have had any issues with having multiple boyfriends at once. No...I don't think that would've damaged me at all.

I experienced an incident like that once. I've talked about it in chat, so some of you already know this story.

 

A couple of years ago when I was still playing with couples, I met a couple in their 40s for drinks. The initial meeting went fine. They were both attractive and in good shape. He did most of the talking but she was friendly. I thought she might be a little shy, but I didn't get the vibe that she wasn't into it. In fact, she was the one who suggested that all three of us leave the bar and go back to their house.

 

As soon as we got to their house all three of us went to their bedroom. She and I started playing and in no time we were both naked and I was going down on her. After a little while, he approached the bed with a very nice big erection. I slid off the bed and got on my knees and started giving him head. She was still on the bed and behind me, so I couldn't see her. After a few moments I heard something behind me that sounded a little like squeaking. I was really into the blow job so I didn't think about it, but I kept hearing it. Finally, I turned around to ask her to help me with the BJ. When I looked at her, she had tears running down her face and she was quietly sobbing.

 

For a moment I had to impulse to just get out of there but caught myself. I pretended that I didn't see her crying, so I turned back to him and continued sucking, trying to make him cum as quickly as I could. I swallowed him so that I wouldn't have to take time to do any cleanup and could get dressed and leave as quickly as possible. As soon as he came, I said thanks for a great night but I have to run. I grabbed by clothes and was still getting dressed as I made it to their front door. They didn't follow me, so I let myself out as quickly as I could. I couldn't even look at either one of them as I was making my way out of their bedroom.

 

It was probably the worst experience of my swinging "career". It is also one of the reasons that I stopped seeing couples and decided to just do house and hotel parties. I never saw them again and their online profile was gone from that site within a couple of days.

intuition and kellimc's posts have made me wonder if I may have had a similar reaction had Mr. Sun and I not had specific life experiences prior to swinging. From those life experiences, I had come to my own conclusion that monogamy wasn't something that seemed all that natural. I applaud couples and marriages that hold their sexual fidelity and monogamy for several many decades because it is not something that we would be able to do. However, if we had started swinging a lot earlier in our marriage or relationship, I may not have been mature enough, emotionally or mentally, to handle such a dramatic shift from monogamy to non-monogamy.

I think it's a culturally learned value, one that I was certainly taught, that monogamy was the only "right" way to do a relationship.

My folks are observant (Mass at least twice a week), conservative (Vatican II was heresy) Catholics who sent me to Catholic school and tried to instill their values in me, so culture can weigh heavily.

 

Anything other than monogamy meant you were a selfish, immature, uncommitted a-hole,..

Unfortunately, in hindsight, that was me. Initially I was non-monogamous for selfish reasons, me having two guys seemed perfectly natural, while hubby even looking at another woman (or her looking at him) was offensive. But he loved me anyway, I'm better for it, and I have tried to make it worth his while.

I applaud couples and marriages that hold their sexual fidelity and monogamy for several many decades ...

 

 

I see being monogamous like being a vegetarian (not to be confused with vagetarian), it probably has some advantages but has the disadvantage of going against our intrinsic nature.