I've said yes, he said yes, but it feels like a standoff.

My partner and I have discussed opening up our relationship to swinging for a few years and now I find myself really wanting to do so.

We've been together for 20 years and have a solid family life together. We've been adventurous sexually with each other, but have always kept it monogamous and never included others. We've been concerned that we want to be safe physically and emotionally because it seems irresponsible to risk disease or heartbreak when we have been disease free and emotionally stable for so long. We've turned down more than one offer based on this thought process.

I have admitted how much I would like an MMF and though I have never been interested in women, I would enjoy exploring how a woman feels and having an FFM as well. I've thought about it almost constantly for the last year and brought it up several times. My partner has said he's not opposed to swinging and wouldn't mind sharing me (as long as I'm okay with it, which, I am) but doesn't seem interested in actually moving forward with it.

I don't know how to help us step across the line. I am keen to experience what it feels like and he says he is as well, but he has been apathetic about pursuing it.

I have always been the more conservative one and I have tried to be open and honest with him. I don't want to push us into this if he's not enthusiastic about doing so, but I feel like we need a firm push forward.

He can be a procrastinator sometimes, but in general he's always led our sexual explorations. We've always gone at the pace of the slowest person and he has been so patient with me in many instances, so I want to afford him that same courtesy. I don't want to seem like I'm nagging or pushing.

Are there ways to move forward without going to a party or should I just make plans and tell him we are going? He seems happy to participate in a swinging experience the only hesitation is in the follow through.

My apologies for such a long writing for one question.

I wouldn't arrange anything without him knowing, find a party or club and ask him if he'd like to go and gauge his reaction , I think it's perfectly normal to have 2 steps forward and 1 step back when trying to get things moving for the first time, at least that's our experience so far.

Maybe he's cautious because he feels he's putting a lot on the line, maybe suggest going to a club with the view of just seeing what it's like and only playing with each other? That way you get to experience that environment risk free, have a sexy night, go home, reflect, and decide together if you want further adventures.

Have you been on the on-line sites, such as SLS? If you find another couple or single that you would like to meet for a drink and nothing more the first time, how does he handle that?

He may be in a state of mind that he is open to doing this but assumes that at some point it will just happen. We never 'planned' our first group session but we both knew we were open to it if the right situation came up.

Once we decided to pursue this as a hobby, she was pretty surprised at the number of opportunities available if one wants to look. He may simply be unaware of the depth of the lifestyle.

Talk to him...tell him that you won't bring it up again unless he brings it up but is he interested. If not, done, if he is then work together to set up a profile on one of the online sites and start looking...

I like the finding a club or party idea. Do some research and find something that looks good, show it to him, tell him you're going with no expectations other than having a fun night together and checking things out, and see what he says. The no promises no pressure no expectations approach of just going together to check out somewhere might be just want he needs to make a decision.

How the heck do you have a Mexican Stand Off in Australia

So, here is an idea. In our case, we had no idea of swapping. We were stationed (military) in an area that has zero privacy an no place to sunbathe. So, we decided to be real rebels and go join a local nudist resort campground in the Castro Valley area of California. Really family friendly place, no one walking around with erections (unless you count some of the nipples that were moved to such in a cool breeze).

We happened to meet another couple that had a lot in common with us as well as several other couples of all ages. However, the couple with whom we shared many interests became very fast friends with us outside the nudist resort. Little did we know (looking back we just didn't take the hints they were giving) they were trying to seduce us from the first get go.

Anyway they were our first. Years later we were stationed (corporate moves this time) in Orlando, Florida. Our little house had no back fence or privacy, so once again we went to a nearby nudist resort just south of town. By that time, we had several swinger experiences and understood the hints much better. We happened to meet a couple that owned a business in Tampa that were visiting the resort that day. They had an RV parked there as this was there "weekend" retreat. An invitation to get out of the sun into some air condition venue ended up in a fun fuck that included the ladies enjoying a bit of extra time on their own as the guys recovered for more.

Since then, we have found that on more than one happenstance that our hot tub has provided unexpected opportunities. We have had several vanilla friends enjoy our hot tub with not a single sexual interaction. However, we have a cardinal rule. No clothing is permitted in our hot tub. If you want to use it, then you welcome....just not your clothing. In three decades of owning hot tubs, we have never had anyone not eventually join us in the tub nude. Certainly, many, many couples have enjoyed the tub and we did not swap with them or suggest such. But, nearly 99% had some sort of sexual action with their own partner in the tub.

We tell those that join us in the tub, "You might find that the water and the jets coupled with the lack of clothes will just plain overwhelm the fellows. For some reason, they just get hands all over their wives or girlfriends. We can't help that nor can we stop the physical reactions. So, if you guys get frisky, we'll just set over here and do the same. Enjoy."

We have heard it all..."oh, he won't get frisky with me; he better not get hard; oh yeah well your nipples are hard; stop that; no, not in front of themmmmmm(generally someone is getting finger fucked by then). Even with that, it doesn't mean that a full swap is in the offing. Sometimes we see a little friskiness and teasing generally about how someone can't stop a reaction (hardon/hard nipples). We have never seen anyone not come back to enjoy the tub sans clothing.

And, yes of course we have seen vanilla couples start fucking right in front of us. We join in as a soft swap keeping our own partners. Sometimes, that is all they want or we want. Yet others have spontaneously swapped with us within just a short time in the tub.

Disease. That is a problem. We are thus far just plain lucky. Our recent circle of friends is very, very close and all have come from either a vanilla background or recently returned swingers of latter years. Our earlier years in the 70's, was wide open and we dodged the bullet. We would recommend safe sex especially until you have more confidence in just how far and wide the swinging patterns are of your new found circle. Even in our early years, we (and to this day) use a fresh condom for any anal penetration. As the years have passed, we find fewer interests in penis-anal penetration. Toys get use, but rarely more than that.

Anyway, they have to have two things in Australia: Nudist resorts (not public beach type) and hot tubs. Everyone says, "Not all Vanilla folks will want to be in the lifestyle." We have found that "most Vanilla folks that go nude in a private home hot tub with another couple tend to be an easy bridge to soft swap then full swap."

Maybe you guys could invest in a hot tub and invite a few friends from time to time. Only invite one couple at a time until you find a couple that will play. Then is when it gets to be fun. Invite the couple that has already gone all the way plus a set of rookies that you sense are right on the edge. It can get really crazy fun or just blow up on you. (generally the former).

Have fun...we did, and do.

Thank you for all of the suggestions and advice! I asked him about it one more time and he said we need to sit down and hash out what our boundaries are and then go from there. So it looks like it's going to be slow going, but not off the table yet.

Thank you for the advice about being safe. It feels rude to bring it up, but it's been a major factor in the past for not moving forward.

When you're setting boundaries remember to move at the pace of the slowest person, whatever you agree it's safer if you stick to it no matter what until there's a time that you discuss rules again, then you can decide if you open up your rules a little or not.

If for example you go to a club and say only flirting , touching is allowed and you stick to it then next time he may be more comfortable doing a bit more because he knows wherever the line is set it won't be crossed, it's not a race but yes we both have found it frustrating when things seem to get going slow but it's also tentatively exciting at the same time.

If you have a good solid relationship then you're together for the long haul and if it takes a month to get going or 12 months you still have plenty of time for great experiences together.

Yes, do not be in a rush and enjoy the trip, not just the destination. It sounds like he is concerned (as he should be) that once this Pandora's Box is open, it can't be closed (and it can't). This can be the beginning of something even greater than your current relationship is...or the beginning of the end. Let him be cautious, take your time, set boundaries (and they most likely will change over time), and enjoy the experience (whatever that may end up being).

This is YOUR sexual adventure as a couple. He sounds a bit cautious so let him set the pace. It won't take him long to get comfortable especially once he gets past whats holding him back. He may be possessive, worried how he'll react to seeing you suck another cock or have some guy touch your boobs or he may be unable to articulate that he is concerned about how playing with others will effect your relationship. We developed our hobby very slowly and with each new step we made sure we were both OK with it but as Gold says, once the box is open it can't be closed. I remember vividly the first time I saw Mrs Doc respond to another man in my presence. It helped that his lovely wife had her tongue deep in my throat but I am still aroused by the memory. She later told me that she was really turned on when she saw me fondle the other woman's boobs while hers were being fondled by the guy. Those moments were sublime and are memories we shared and still touch upon 15 years later. I hope you you continue to share your journey with the rest of us.

I will affirm what everyone said about going slow. WE are new to the lifestyle also and have never had a full swap. We have been to the local club three times in the past month and are going to be back there again this weekend. Our ultimate goal is a full swap, but up to this point we have only done some oral and some soft swap. That is OK! Every time there has been very exciting and we have moved forward some with each visit. I call it total sensory overload in a very good way. Everyone of your senses will be in high gear with all of the sights, sounds, and yes odors of a very sensual environment. Our first time we did nothing but watch and talk, but that was ok. We were definitely ready to go back again. Good luck on your first time and most of all plan on having fun.

See, Dan63 totally gets it! Especially the sensory overload part.

Hi,

A little update: We've been talking and talking and talking some more about what it is we both want from this and it seems we are on the same page. We've talked about rules, and everything we discuss makes us think of something more. He surprised me by making a couples profile on an SLS. I didn't think that would be something he would do at all! I didn't think he was as interested as he is. So now it's sort of a deer in the headlights feeling for both of us. There has been more interest than we could have anticipated. It has been overwhelming since we don't exactly know how to proceed in terms of talking or even meeting for vetting and possibly having that eventuate into more. I'm not sure what people mean by no time wasters either. Does that mean if you aren't going to jump straight into everything, that makes us time wasters? So, that's where we are for now. It may be some time before anything actually happens. We are certainly not going to rush and I appreciate that he is as cautious as he is. It has proven its value more than once in our relationship.

What people generally mean by "timewasters" is people that chat and lead others along but never intend to meet, now that you guys have a profile you should check out the swinging online forum for tips about how to proceed

Looking back, it was amazing that we survived going to a "club" (it was a residential party house") and it might not have gone well had not a couple that was acting as "guides" made assimilating easy. Between the two of them, we really felt comfortable and safe in this house full of strangers. But even with our lengthy experience in the LS, we just aren't the "club" types.

Since we had already been seduced by one couple in one part of the country, then transferred to yet another part and found the second couple, well we were already accustomed to full swap. In fact as a discussion before replying once again, we really hadn't heard of the term called soft swing. Guess we were doing some of that before the original couple pulled us into the LS.

Still, all the advice we read from others on the site is truly compassionate and solid advice. The very first couple that we enjoyed was a remarkable time. But it was in the fashion of separate room swapping. (Yes, in those days it wasn't the Life Style, it was crudely stated as "wife swapping" or just plain "swinging." We tended to call it swinging as the wife swap terminology seemed really incorrect. After all the hubbies were getting swapped as well. LOL

It seemed complicated for us as we didn't realize that we were being seduced. It just wasn't in our minds to even do this, let alone be brave enough to edge toward the path so many take today pursuing the opportunity to be in the lifestyle. Frankly, there was not "support system" like this forum to help couples ease into...or completely abandon the engagement of the LS.

We both admit that just hearing the sounds emanating from the swapped couples created an excitement and indeed, a comfort, knowing that our spouses were enjoying their new found pleasure. Eventually, we abandoned the separate rooms and all shared the same play area (oh yes, we managed to foursome fuck in almost every room of our respective houses. During those events, all of us expressed passion with sounds of fucking that ranged from seemingly primordial orgasmic screams to encouragement to fuck her/him.

The experiences of two different couples certainly cemented that we knew we were into recreational sex. We really never made love as that is a state of mind in our personal definition exclusive to our marriage. We did enjoy lots of "recreational" sex (and still do).

Rules? We really didn't have any rules with regard to the first two couples. Our participation with them just seemed to always be the intent that we would enjoy any and all sex acts. We hadn't even thought about someone becoming abusive and stupidly, we never used protection as birth control was the primary concern.

But the application to join the "club" introduced us to certain rules and sort of woke us up. The club had four rules: (1) No Means NO! (2) No abuse, spanking, slapping (3) No drugs/smoke of anything and (4) No anal without a condom and no intercourse thereafter without removing the condom. They essentially had no safe sex rules other than an attempt at "sanitation."

That whole set of circumstances which invoked the rules was a wake up to us. We certainly didn't expect to ever be in a situation with our first two couples to even have to concern ourselves about these conditions. It was good that folks who were into the "club" situations had the presence to discuss them. We were even told each of the two times we went to the club those same rules at the door.

As to easing into this, we can only say that we certainly did but then we were seduced over a ten month period. Going to the "club" was so far a departure to our heretofore experience that had we not already had the sexual action before we might have just turned around. However, after we had decided we were going to the club we made up our own rules. Essentially, if Mrs Afterwork was not comfortable then Mr Afterwork should not expect to participate. We expected that we would not be playing on the first visit. We just wanted to get an idea of the environment.

Everyone was nude in the "club." Having been to nudist resorts and of course around our nude "wife swappers," we felt that disrobing almost immediately upon entering the "club" was just the norm. Again, we had expected to not be playing that first visit.

That lasted all of about the first thirty minutes when both of us were approached by really nice folks not of the same household. We had agreed that if Mrs Afterwork determined to accompanying a sexual partner then that was the signal for Mr. Afterwork. Imagine the surprise for Mr Afterwork when she was approached first and agreed to go take a "tour" with the male of the couple that welcomed us to the "club." For Mr Afterwork, it was a "gulp" moment as this was strange to see Mrs Afterwork reach down and take hold of this fellow's cock (at flaccid was already appeared to be a bit more than she had experienced with Mr Afterwork or the two other husbands previously experienced.) Note: Mr and Mrs Afterwork were virgins when they married.

Mrs Afterwork asked if this fellow intended to use "this" sometime that evening. Guess that was the signal that we were going to not just observe. His cock grew and Mr Afterwork's cock started spring up as well just watching this interaction. Essentially, we both gave out signals. Mr Afterwork was pulled away by a young lady that noticed the interchange telling Mrs Afterwork, you will enjoy (we are leaving his unique name out) XX, we all do. Mrs Afterwork indeed did enjoy him twice that evening.

It was just our first "club" experience, and we did become quite close to XX and his wife Sissy. But after the second visit, we still were not really comfortable with the "club" scene. For Mrs Afterwork, it just wasn't as fulfilling as a more intimate setting. The second visit, was a blur. We both just lost it and tried to fuck as many people as we could. Mr Afterwork, bless his heart, as a young man at that time managed to squirt three different times but Mrs Afterwork overdid and engage twice that amount with six different fellows. Both of us were worn out.

During one of those six fellows, Mrs Afterwork shared the same fellow with another young lady as a threesome. They were both well fucked by then as the evening had been late. Turned out that Mrs Afterwork and this lady shared a level of intimacy that could only be described later as bisexual. This lady's husband, jus like Mr. Afterwork, was elsewhere in the "club."

The two ladies exchanged phone numbers and promised to call so that the husbands could be introduced. Imagine our surprise when that call came the next afternoon (a Sunday) asking if we might entertain a casual visit from them. Rules? We agreed to visit with them and thought this would be just a visit as both of us were not fully recovered. Thank goodness for youthful vigor.

Turned out they became extremely close friends (including future business partners). Seems that they were also on their second visit and while they had a good time, they were looking for a more intimate setting. Of course, fucking ensued that Sunday afternoon with the husbands learning first hand that the wives seemed to enjoy each other's cream pies.

The two new couples that we seemed to have the most comfort with became part of our very tight and small circle of friends that left the "club" scene supplanting that with our own small (nine or less couples) taking turns hosting at each other's homes. That is the genre we have maintained and it has made us the most comfortable.

That is the key word....comfortable. Yes, we had an extremely, highly charged two visits at the "club." But for us and several others we met along the way, the "club" is just to much of a cattle call. But that is just us. We know many folks really enjoy that scene and more power to them.

We just wanted to share the perspective that no matter what you do, there will be a few heart skipping moments. The moment that both of you fully engage with another couple; the moment that same sex contact is made and witnessed (it happens even if there is only the incidental unintended contact); the moment that the spouse sees a sex act being performed that they never had with their spouse (Mrs Afterwork enjoys oral for both sexes but oddly does not enjoy it with Mr Afterwork); the moment that spouses see that they are really enjoying a different person; the moment that you see your spouse enjoy a variety of threesomes while you just watch, and many more instances including full or limited forays into bisesuality.

But, when you find really good fuck buddies it is comforting and amazing. Then when some of those recreational sexual partners become very good friends (vice versa for vanillas that become recreational partners) it is beyond comforting. Frankly, you can walk around smugly with your friends in front of others knowing that while the rest of the soccer moms and dads go about their drudge, you get to fuck your friends instead of fantasizing if even that. cu

As the members here have said, "Take it easy, be certain you are going to be content with knowing that it is JUST RECREATIONAL sex, not love making. We have had some of the hottest sex after we fuck others. The cream pie lube makes both of us excited. But, remember we were taking stupid risks then. Now, we think our close knit group is safe for barebacking. That is a whole other discussion.

Enjoy. Keep us posted. Read a lot of the posts on this site, but know what you two want. For us, it was truly exhilarating to hear each other enjoy getting our "swinging virginity" threshold crossed. It was sort of maybe a wee bit exciting to go be sort of a wild child at the "club," but for us the comfort was watching us grow with a tight knit group.

Lastly, husbands tend to be the ones that go "what has happened here...." when they discover that their wives really let loose and enjoy. Mr Afterwork was often the suggestive energy to say let's try this, but it was Mrs Afterwork that once involved became enthralled with the circumstances often enjoying more encounters in an evening at a party than Mr Afterwork could even keep up with..poor fellow.

Guess what we are saying, is that your husband had better be prepared to see you enjoy yourself. By the way, not every encounter will be fulfilling for either of you (or in sometimes at the same event/party). Law of averages, it all works out over the years. Just remember, NO means no. We have never taken one for the team, but we have had some non-fulfilling experiences.

You know you are there and each comfortable when the first thing really close friends do is start undressing you when they walk in the door. We have had to buy a lot of couch covers over the years...LOL.

Good luck.