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My Obsession With Swinging leads to Guilt & Anger

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I was googling a question last night while I was "brooding" in bed after my wife went to sleep and I came across this board and spent hours reading the archives. What a relief!!!! I found I'm not alone!

 

I don't know if this is going to be much of a question or just writing to get it out of my head. My situation is exactly what many others have written about. "Husband wants to, wife doesn't" or more accurately "Wife does it to please husband."

 

My wife and I have been together for 10 years and married for 6. We're a young couple, I am 31 and she is 28 and we are expecting our first child.

 

I have an hyperactive sexual imagination, am bisexual, and have been sexually open and adventurous since I can ever remember. I have always been interested in pushing boundaries, trying new things, and I have a list of things that would look like the yellow pages that I want to try.

 

I met my wife on a vanilla online dating site when she was just 18, I was 20. When I went online, it was the first time that I started going on dates that to my surprise usually ended with some sort of casual play. I never initiated it, since I always tried to be the "no pressure" "nice guy" but I would take a girl out on a first date, and next thing I knew we were doing something. Having not been a jock or popular in school, I thought I hit the jackpot. After the first couple of times of this happening, I thought "screw looking for a girlfriend, this rocks!"

 

Then I met my wife. We chatted for hours, and went on a date. It didn't take long before we fell for each other big time. And we were completely G-rated the whole time. We ended up having sex a little while into it and she was pretty reserved and I couldn't even tell if she liked it. But she did and we started having a great sex life together. After 6 months she moved an hour to live with me.

 

It was very early on that I started to talk to her about my sexual views. And to my surprise she seemed right there with me on them. I'm a very good talker and as a salesman, without even trying, I just have a way to make anything sound good.

 

Early on we had a couple of mmf experiences with a friend of ours, and then expanded into camming on yahoo and then joining AFF. From there we started meeting couples, and ended up making some really close friends. My wife seemed genuinely into it as much as I was and I was having the time of my life.

 

I think after a while she started not enjoying it. Some I'm sure had to do with the frequency that I was interested and I know looking back there were times that I would have looked "obsessed" with it to a normal person. I didn't see that at the time. I was having the time of my life and she appeared to be having just as much fun as I was, so that fueled it for me.

 

My wife is very attractive and always gets attention from men. Over the years my interests and kinks have moved more toward mmf/hotwife/mild cuckold, and my turn on is much greater involving HER with other men vs. me with others. I am perfectly happy not being with other women, or even being involved.

 

This is where things seem to have changed. She began playing with guys on her own, and playing with guys that she met on camping trips and such and then coming home and telling me the "story" I loved it. I found everything a major turn on including hearing about her sexual past. The "cheating on me" thing really got me going. At the same time though, we started having conflict because we pretty much stopped "swinging" or doing anything together such as looking for people or setting anything up. She had very little interest in anything that wasn't a "random encounter" that only occurred when she was not with me.

 

Twice during our relationship, these encounters turned into emotional affairs and resulted in her moving out for a little while before coming back. The last time we were minutes from divorce paper signing when I managed to turn things around. It was during that time that her family got involved and all of a sudden seemingly out of nowhere I was accused of "forcing her into swinging." It got real nasty with her family and I was painted as a monster.

 

That blew my mind at the time. "I didn't force her to play with guys when I was 1000 miles away" nor did I "I didn't force her to meet guys online on her own."

I couldn't figure it out. She didn't stop playing, she just stopped having me involved.

 

My view is/was completely skewed as well. She played with and attracted an endless supply of extremely hot guys. And she always seemed to have a blast. So I couldn't understand the reluctance that kept coming up. In my mind, If I had tons of hot women, (or guys, since I'm bi) that were after me, I could not figure a downside...lol.

 

I have no reservations with sex and to me its a game, a hobby, and it doesn't seem unnatural to want to keep moving along with it and trying different things, fantasies, people, and such.

 

We have taken "breaks", stopped altogether, and have always come back to it. Usually because I always leave the door open for when she is on her own. She still encounters these random experiences and when that happens, I feel then that we are "back in the game" and then the cycles starts all over again because she doesn't put any effort into involving me or playing as a couple. At that point I get mad because I feel like she just wants the opportunity to do what she wants and leaves me out.

 

We have talked seriously about this to no end and it always ends as "We really are on the same page and want the same things"

But that's not true. I always leave her the option to drop the whole thing but she doesn't. Every time this has come up and we "agree and feel better" however, its never followed up by action on her part and it doesn't take long for me to get back into a bad mood with it. I feel like she just tells me what I want to hear.

 

Now that I got the history out of the way.

 

I am so conflicted. The easy answer that most will probably say is "stop swinging" And every day I agree with that. Then the night comes when I get home and its right back in my head.

 

While there are individual experiences that I know she didn't think were great. It appeared to me that she really enjoyed it overall and since I think of everything as an experience, a "not so great" experience for me has no effect on me wanting to continue.

 

Her lack of interest in the extremely hot people that are into her is something that I cant comprehend. As a man in general that's just mind-blowing. I often say to myself "If I had people interested in me like that I would have to quit my job and have a line outside" Now intellectually I understand that sex and attraction is different for different people. Me, its a game. People are pieces of the game. I have sex with a fantasy, and bodies. Its a totally different experience than when she and I "make love" But I can see for her, that there is much more to it.

 

My problem is that my wife and I are compatible in every area but this. We are best friends, work together, don't fight, and I know we both literally worship the ground each other walks on.

 

The easy answer should be "If you love her like you say you do, you would drop the swinging idea." And holy smokes I want to. I tell myself everyday that I am done with it, be happy with having an otherwise dream relationship that most would kill for.

 

But then the feelings creep right back up on me. By the time we are home at night, I am stewing. Sometimes I show it, and other times It takes everything I can muster up to pretend that everything is fine and appear completely normal. Usually I make an excuse that I'm tired and go to bed early, so that we end the night on a "good note" On the days that I know she sees through that, when the morning comes, I feel guilty and cant imagine that I was upset about something so stupid, I think. Until the night comes again.

 

When I am mad, I justify it in my head because I was 100% open and upfront right from the beginning of our relationship. So I end up having resentment because I feel like all these years into it, she changed. And while we do talk about it, I don't believe she will come out and say what she really feels out of fear of me getting mad or leaving. So whenever we finish a conversation about it, I am always left with "hope" and think we are back in the game. But again, the follow through never happens. She will do things on her own like post an ad online. She will get so many responses that googles servers start overheating. She'll tell me about it and suggest we "look at the responses" Again, it will blow my mind at the selection that she has. But without fail, she will respond to one or two out of hundreds and lose interest. She will chat with a couple of people then just forget about it and disappear on them.

 

Those actions keep me with "hope" that I am unable to convince myself is BS even though I know it is. She does it to show an effort to keep the peace but its not real interest on her part.

 

I'm not sure what my reaction would be if she flat out told me "I don't want to do this" I feel though, I would rather her do that, then just keep this false glimmer alive. At least then, I would have closure. I would know that its something that she does not want to do. Even though I know that deep down, I still let myself hang on "we're on the same page" and I keep waiting for "it to happen"

 

Well its been years and we aren't the adventurous playful couple that I envisioned. I feel such a mix of emotions. One being resentment because I feel like I was "tricked" even though I know that's not the case. I feel that she "changed" but I don't know if she did. For all I know, this could have been an act from the very beginning. I do know its nothing malicious on her part. She didn't intentionally "trick" me.

 

The less we have done the more obsessed I have become with it as I am getting older. I still feel like the young couple 10 years ago just exploring it. I look at ads and swinger sites and I see "Nobody over 30" and now that I am over 30, that triggers my anxiety, because it seems like just yesterday we had that on our profile. I feel like there is so much left to try and as time goes by, my anxiety gets worse that I feel like that slipping away. I feel like I am going to be too old to do stuff at some point and look back and really resent what I missed.

 

Its affected our relationship. I have subconsciously delayed so many things that she and I both want because of this. Always thinking, "once we get this out of our system"....I have this pipe dream that one day we are just going to let loose. Things as simple as going out downtown or making plans for a "date night" on a Friday....Well I wont do that because I am afraid that, THAT would be the night that she secretly made play plans and then I would ruin it...

 

But that never happens. What does happen is we go a really long time just sitting home and not going out. And even though she did nothing to give me the idea that "we were doing something tonight" I somehow hold this hope and then get let down. It always turns into "What do you want to do?" "I dunno, what do you want to do?" And I want to scream "YOU KNOW WHAT I WANT TO DO, WHY ARE YOU ASKING?!?!"

 

Now with a baby on the way, I feel guilty because I keep having mixed feelings enter my head. My male friends always say "Wait till she gets pregnant, your sex life will be over" or "Get it out now because when you have kids, you can forget swinging" She and I always would say "Nahh" it wont happen to us. She was ready for kids a long time ago, and I was too, but at the same time, it was yet another thing that I subconsciously pushed off. Always thinking some switch would flip and we would become active... Then.....Cool it a bit and start a family. Well that never happened and now we are having a baby years later. And my friends were right. Now that she is pregnant, especially being her first time, that's all there is. Playing is not anywhere in the cards.

 

Yet I still keep this glimmer of hope. Especially with a huge number of people with a pregnant fetish, which I have myself. But I feel guilty because as exited as I am to have a baby, every week that goes by there is a little part of me that anxiety builds and reality sets in. I end up feeling like "we're running out of time" since I know having a baby, our sex life will take a back seat for a long time to start.

 

Basically I just have a battle in my head. I adore my wife, I love her more than anything. I try my ass off to just drop the whole sex thing and be happy and grateful for what I have. Like I said, most would kill for a relationship like I have besides the sex.

 

But I cant stop these feelings from entering my mind. I avoid things like the swinger sites and craigslist. But it never fails, Ill click on something online, and then see "Couple looking for guys" or "She wants 2 men" and that triggers me right away. Immediately the feeling of "I thought that would be us" and "She changed" and you name the excuse, I find it to get mad. I get jealous of other couples "living my dream" that I thought was mutual.

 

That's the part that sucks. I want her to be happy. As stupid as it sounds, it would kill me if I found out she does something feeling pressured to "make me happy" even though I know if she does, that's the reason. Yet at the same time, I look back at our experiences and they look like she genuinely had a great time, and I cant see where that was an act. So that screws with my head and makes me justify my feelings.

 

With my way of thinking, I just cant grasp the whole idea "If you have such a great time, why don't you want more?"

The answer probably is...She really wasn't having that great a time...But I cant seem to get that through my head.

 

Sorry for the long post, I'm not expecting people to read the whole thing. I just needed to write to get it out.

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I'm afraid I don't have the answer for you, but I want to thank you for sharing this very thought-provoking post. When she had the "emotional affairs," she was looking for something she thinks is lacking. Do you know what that was?

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Honestly, as I read your post I can't help but think you are obsessed with swinging (see title change above) and perhaps that it may have even crossed the line into an addiction for you.

 

You ask why your wife won't just be honest? Because I'm guessing you don't really give her that option. You said yourself you are a salesman and can talk her into anything. She agrees to get you to shut up, but it doesn't mean it's what she really wants. When you talk to her do you REALLY listen? Or do you just talk and then turn off your ears, waiting for her to just buy into what you are selling?

 

As Guy said, cheating is about finding something that is lacking in the primary relationship. My guess is that it may be less about her not wanting to swing, and more about her wanting a husband who really listens to what she wants rather than making his own fantasies the #1 priority.

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Welcome to the forum! And thank you for taking the time to write out such a long post. I know those always take a lot of time and energy. I have to admit, I had to read your post twice because there were things that I got confused about. There are a few things I wanted to say though.

 

1. You talked about how her swinging evolved into...

 

She began playing with guys on her own, and playing with guys that she met on camping trips and such and then coming home and telling me the "story" I loved it. I found everything a major turn on including hearing about her sexual past. The "cheating on me" thing really got me going.

 

And your kink became...

 

Over the years my interests and kinks have moved more toward mmf/hotwife/mild cuckold, and my turn on is much greater involving HER with other men vs. me with others. I am perfectly happy not being with other women, or even being involved.

 

But then you say...

 

At the same time though, we started having conflict because we pretty much stopped "swinging" or doing anything together such as looking for people or setting anything up.

 

She still encounters these random experiences and when that happens, I feel then that we are "back in the game" and then the cycles starts all over again because she doesn't put any effort into involving me or playing as a couple. At that point I get mad because I feel like she just wants the opportunity to do what she wants and leaves me out.

 

Perhaps you two aren't clear about what each of you defines swinging, hotwife, and mild cuckold. Is it the case that you liked having her go out by herself but you still wanted to do couple swapping occasionally?

 

2. Your swinging days are not over once you hit over 30 or after you have kids. The majority of swingers are over 40 or 50 and can swing because their children are moved out or old enough to take care of themselves during the night when the parents go out for a date night. And there are couples who do swing when they have younger children. It might not be often but it is the occasional treat to do so.

 

3. You said:

 

When I am mad, I justify it in my head because I was 100% open and upfront right from the beginning of our relationship.

 

But on the same note:

 

It was very early on that I started to talk to her about my sexual views. And to my surprise she seemed right there with me on them. Im a very good talker and as a salesman, without even trying, I just have a way to make anything sound good.

 

I bolded the last sentence because it sounds like you're pretty convinced that you talked her into swinging. If you're convinced this is the case, then why do you have so much anger and resentment when all the arrows point toward you that you may have created this problem of your wife not being 100% on board with swinging from the first place?

 

4. People change. I hate to be the messenger of bad news but people change all the time because we're experiencing new situations and ideas constantly. People can change for the better or for the worse. People can change to be smarter or dumber. People can become enlightened or not. Perhaps your wife has decided that instead of seeking other men out to play with and then those encounters becoming an emotional affair, she has decided not to go down that road. Perhaps she had a bad encounter and doesn't want to do any swinging. Or perhaps she wants to place her interest in something else right now...like motherhood and the arrival of your baby.

 

5. Instead of leaving the door open to swinging, perhaps you should try taking swinging off the table completely and focus on being a family. Leaving it open might make her feel pressured to try to do something swinging-related for you. Since she is your wife, she probably knows how obsessed you are about swinging and if it's the go-to thing to try to make you happy, then she'll keep half-trying to make you happy.

 

As I was going through your post for a 3rd time, I realized that it doesn't matter what confusion I had from your post. The bottom line is that whether or not she enjoyed it or not in the past, she isn't interested right now. If she's not interested, you need to drop it. If you can't and all you can think of is your desires and wants...not your wife's or upcoming baby's arrival, then perhaps this is a hurdle that you can't overcome. You are putting yourself first, not your wife, not your baby, and not your relationship. All you can think of how you want to swing, how you feel that you are missing out on swinging during your "prime", and I can sense this extreme build-up of resentment that you are holding against her. Yes, maybe she enjoyed it. Or, maybe she didn't. What ever may be the case, she has decided to focus her interest elsewhere. If swinging is in the future, then it will be. But if it's not, then you have to decide whether you will be okay with that or not. If not, then I don't think this relationship is going to work out without some major change in perspective in what is important. I'm usually not this blunt about this sort of thing but the combination of how you feel an urgency to swing, a resentment of not being able to swing, and this overall "me me me" in your post leads me to believe that maybe your wife picked up on this. All of this interest and obsession with swinging and sex takes a lot of energy...energy that might be taken away from putting effort into the relationship with your wife. And perhaps this is why she ended up having emotional affairs.

 

If you feel that exploring your sexuality and engaging in non-monogamy is pivotal in your well-being and you can't be with someone who differs with you on that point, then you should have your answer. You have to make that decision on what is important, who is important, and what compromises you are willing to make.

 

But please, take my advice with a grain of salt. This is the internet. I don't know you or your wife. We only have your side of the story. A lot of what you wrote concerning your wife's thoughts are speculation. I know you wrote that the two of you have talked a lot about this but perhaps not everyone was being honest or non-judgmental. I felt that there was a lot of "I think my wife feels..." in your post. Perhaps instead of only thinking...perhaps you can get into the realm of knowing how your wife thinks and feels about all of this.

 

Good luck.

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I swear I mean this kindly: You're a bit of a mess.

 

Somehow, you've conflated swinging with your self conception, your ideal life, and then pushed and prodded and sold your way into something that clearly isn't working for either of you. So, yeah, stop with the swinging already, until it stops being something that you approach with an addict's mindset and that your wife approaches with malicious compliance (fine, I'll do it - or pretend to do it - but only when you're not there, with your greediness and pressure).

 

Your sex life isn't over, the possibility of swinging is out there for decades and if the two of you ever get enough of the right kind of therapy that you really are on the same page (an honest one this time), you can actually have the kind of life that works for both of you. Or you can keep doing what you're doing until your wife falls in love and leaves you for someone who actually puts her needs first (and knows what they are because he asks). Yeah, I know, that's harsh, but you've already weathered what you're calling emotional affairs without changing much of anything, except to increase your level of frustration and anger, in spite of some clear alerts for different behaviors, so that's the logical outcome.

 

It's quite possible, by the way, to have a great time sexually and still hate the experience.

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I have more of a response but I want to say I have read everyone's replies and THANK YOU.

 

I realize my feelings are irrational. And seemingly rediculous to anyone without experience in this area.

That's what I am trying to bring under control. I had a great day working with my wife and am having a great night. The last thing on my mind is any kind of play. If you told me right now that I would feel like I do sometimes, I wouldn't believe you.

 

Im not jumping the gun here so I say this with caution. But I think reading so many of the archive stories and, writing my own, and welcoming but honest responses kind of shook up my mind a bit.

 

Residing the archives with guys complaining about their wives "changing their minds" and some seeming to throw almost childish tantrums, I was like...."what the hell, dude. Grow up"

Yet if I look in the mirror......that's me....I just hide it a little better.

 

I feel like a lightbulb went off.

 

I sincerely thank you all for serious replies, I expected to be flamed off the board.

 

Things don't change overnight, but I do feel pretty embarrassed looking at myself. Im going to make a point if I feel any of those feelings starting to hit me, to take a break and spend some time here instead of stewing and ruining a nice night.

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Confused, it's always nice to hear back from the OP that they appreciate any responses even if it may not be what they want to hear. There are so many good people here on the forum that are friendly and willing to help. No matter what your swing status this community is a great one to hang out on and just enjoy the diverse conversations. Hope you and your wife can continue to have more good nights and focus on what is important to the health of your relationship.

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If it helps, you will learn to live with it and just enjoy the memories. And, of course, a little bit hoping that someday, somehow, she'll want to play again! I know, I've been in your shoes for years!

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Actually I needed to hear what I didn't "want" to hear.

 

I think like I've read many others, this WAS fun for the BOTH of us back in the beginning.

 

I believe my actually does enjoy playing but in a different way. This explains why she will go away on a camping trip and end up messing around with someone or when she goes back home to visit.

For her, the excitement is "it just happening".

 

I believe the "hunting" is the turnoff for her. I enjoy being a little random and spontaneous and she does too. The difference is that I'll gladly be random and spontaneous looking online, whereas she prefers to get to know people a little and so on. And the excitement for her is spontaneous that started out as a g-rated situation.

 

The emotional affairs which were physical as well, I know were a result of things missing in our relationship. The last time that happened was with someone who started off as a playmate, turned into a FWB, and in very short time he took advantage of the situation and next thing I know she moved out. It was ugly but I understand how it happened.

 

I agree that swinging isn't over. I just need to back off about it, and enjoy it when its on her terms and she brings it up. Which I believe would definitely happen if it weren't such a pressure issue.

 

I feel like I can back off totally and just be together and let the play go back to when it was fun. It has to be legit though. I can't "pretend" to back off and sit there secretly waiting for "results"

 

I've read some stories here that I am amazed and impressed how people responded staying respectful and calm where even I wanted to reach through the screen and strangle whoever was on the other end. And I'm closer to those guys then anything.

 

Just the fact that I can exhibit similar behavior even to a lesser extreme is embarrassing to think about.

 

So far I'm feeling great. Being a Saturday I'm usually in a "mood" since I'm hoping for something to happen sat night. Yet I don't feel any of that.

 

I'm a smart enough guy to know that anyone can change for a short time, so I know I need to watch myself and give it some time to see how legit it is before I just think "I'm cured" so to speak.

But considering I've lost the anxiety 100% for the first and only time in years, I'm liking it.

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Sometimes we all need to look in the mirror. We don't always like what we see, but if we can stare at ourselves long enough we will learn a lot. It's difficult to be really introspective and really delve into ourselves to understand why we do what we do, but without it we end up stuck and repeating mistakes. I hope you really can continue to look at yourself and see where the problem lies and keep working on it.

 

You won't get flamed here, we only bring out the flame guns for people who really deserve it, we will however be brutally honest.

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I'm going to take a crack at that brutal honesty thing. Confused, my friend, I think you need help. Help beyond what you can get here. It sounds to me like you have some issues which would greatly benefit by being talked through with a knowledge, trained and accepting professional. I remember seeing folks here mentioning resources for finding lifestyle-friendly therapists. I don't recall the details but I'm hoping one of the other good people here can help connect you with that.

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This is great advice so far. The only I would add is that you might want to develop some other hobbies. It seems that in the evenings, sex and swinging consumes your thoughts. Especially with a child coming, having some other, non sexual things, that can keep your mind of sex might help with your obsession and balance things out a bit for you,

 

When my wife and I started swinging, it seemed we fantasized and talked about it non stop in the early days. Eventually, however, that plateaued and it became a healthy, reasonable part of our life, not our entire life

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Confused, I agree with much if not all of what our esteemed fellow forum denizens say above. I have a few things to add on which I hope you may find of use...

 

You've been very open with us and made quite the post to start this thread. It's very detailed, and goes deeply into your feelings and thoughts. So here's my question on this; would you let her read all of this? If not, why not? If you do not have the open honesty necessary to share the thoughts you expressed here with her, there is an underpinning of communication breakdown that can fundamentally undermine your relationship regardless of swinging or any sort of non-monogamy.

 

You are concerned that "she changed". Anyone who has been married for many years will tell you that their spouse has changed over time. You can't avoid it. It WILL happen. Fearing change is wrong in this case. It's the growth together that you should relish. Maybe she has changed. There's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't mean she cheated you out of something, that she did one thing and now things are different and you were tricked out of what you hoped was a lifetime of that. Sorry, but change is real. If you want to stay married, you'd better begin to accept that reality and embrace her as a living, breathing individual who is a delight to know...and LEARN about...forever.

 

Having kids doesn't end swinging. Pregnancy is hard on women and it will affect their sex drives in one form or another. My wife and I didn't start swinging until after we'd had our kids. Her sex drive wasn't any less after she had kids. It's a complete misnomer that women somehow shut down physically after having kids, that the fact of pregnancy destroys their sex drives. What destroys sex drives are the overburdens of parenthood that sap away energy. A mother might be changing diapers much of the day, doing laundry, doing dishes, cleaning house, cleaning out the diaper genie, entertaining the little one with oogie-woogie-poogie speak, and have the baby hanging off her breast (sometimes painfully) for a good portion of the day...then she's supposed to toss on some sexy lingerie and TADA! SUPER SEX MOM TO THE RESCUE to save the day for her husband who wants sex. It doesn't work that way :)

 

The best way men can improve their wives' sex drives is to pamper them, tag team them when you get home and tell them to go do something they want to enjoy, knock out a lot of the chores around the house, give the baby a bath, rock the baby to sleep, make up a bottle for the kid, clean up the kitchen, make the beds, run some laundry. Oh, and mow the lawn, do house maintenance, take out the trash, get the car serviced, make doctors appointments, and etc..etc..etc... being a family is draining on the parents. Don't expect your wife to be super mom AND super wife. Instead, embrace the new role you have for yourself and be as much a part of the family's solutions as you can. The easier you make it for your wife, the more her sex drive will rebound. I can't guarantee it, but I can guarantee it will make her happier regardless so it's 1000% worth doing.

 

By the way; when my wife was pregnant with our second child, we didn't have sex for almost a year. It was a hard pregnancy, and took a toll on her. Also, your wife having sex with other men while she is pregnant is medically a bad idea. There are other threads here on the forum that attest to that. Leave the pregnant women with another man as fantasy and fantasy only.

 

You mentioned that you think your feelings are irrational? Feelings and logic do not talk to each other. Feelings aren't any more rational than the sky is purple with blue polkadots. More important; your feelings are yours. It's how you feel. How you decide to react to those feelings is your measure. Choose your path, and rather than being subservient to your feelings figure a pathway forward, in concert and communication with your wife, that works.

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Thanks for the response. So far since I have found this board and did a ton of reading I feel quite a bit different. Granted its only been a few days but the mood had been quite different around my house.

I'm actually just taking a break now from cleaning the bathroom lol.

 

As far as reading this. She could probably recite it word for word. I practically wrote it on autopilot.

 

Something needed to change. Which translates to me.

 

For the first time ever, I feel like the anxiety and anger isn't there. Many times I have "dropped the topic" and gone on sprees of pretending it never happened. But it was a act. It was well scripted and only a facade. Underneath it I was stewing and hoping that "it would work"

 

Its pretty cool that I don't feel like that now. For real. And that is an interesting feeling.

I do have a very high sex drive and it does become an obsession. My wife has periods of a high sex drive but normally its abnormally low. Or maybe its normal for a woman and just seems abnormally low to me.

 

I think what made the lightbulb go off was realizing how common this conflict is. Many of the stories I read on here, though I could understand where they are coming from are almost scary.

 

I'm curious how common couples REALLY are equally into this or the woman is the aggressor. Its funny because my wife and I used to point that out about other couples where we got the idea the woman was just along for the ride. "We" were the model example of the opposite. Yet that couldn't have been any farther from the truth in reality.

 

There is no way to really feel or think like someone else that you don't understand. That's the hard part.

The common theme I read and applies to me too is the assumption that your wife "loves the attention"

 

Even the hottest guy is not going to get flooded with hot women ready to go from an online ad. So to see women with a line stretched around the block, its natural to have a hard time understanding their lack of interest. I don't think its possible for an average man to truly understand that.

 

I've also never had a sexual encounter that I regretted. I've had ones not great but I've never felt bad or felt guilty or given it a second thought. I think that is different for most women as well.

 

me, I think..."dam. If I were a woman, I wouldn't have time to do anything but have sex." But that's not accurate since how often do you see women "take advantage" of that ability? I only think that way because of not having that ability. Look how hard it is for a single guy to "play" and how few single women exist. Its different programming. Women know sex is about the easiest thing they can get. So what's the "need?"

 

Overall I don't believe my thoughts or feelings are wrong. I have been upfront and honest right from the beginning. Very early in our relationship. Its not something I sprung on her later on.

Unfortunately it took me many years to realize that she did just go along with it. All along I saw someone who was just as into it as me. But thats not true. My "been honest all along" thing is what fueled the anger and resentment. Logically I still agree with that. But reality is, we are where we are and I have to choose priorties.

 

I don't think she changed. I don't think she "tricked" me. I think we got trapped in a circle.

 

If you asked her, she would say we have done a ton, and had a really active time. Meanwhile I feel like we didn't even scratch the surface.

 

I think the more my interest was diverted to playing, the less she wanted to. And then we got into the chicken or egg deal.

 

She feels less close to me as I want to expand the play. I increase my play attention and pay less attention to her as I feel her not having interest. Then we get stuck. I don't give her attention and she shuts down.

 

But all I can say is...so far so good...

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Usually by the time I see these posts there are so many great answers there is nothing I can add, but in this case I think I can because I think I have been in your shoes at one time. I feel that my feelings on the same subjects swinging/hot wife/mild cucking/ were all similar to you.

 

I am going to key in on just a couple of your points and tell you what worked for me. I “self medicated” my obsession.

 

We had hours of conversation that drilled really deep to find out what SHE wanted. With that I discovered that many times she was into indulging my craziness, but what made it hot for her was for her to expend a minimum of effort. So what once was a “date” fantasy for me became a quickie after work. That fed the desire I had as well as being something she was into.

 

Moral; it took months but the key was finding the nucleus of what parts of it were hot for HER.

 

You compared the things that you obsessed over as a “game”. That is kind of funny because the next thing I did was to engage in non-sexual activities with my wife and other couples that I felt stimulated some of the same things in my head that got stimulated during swinging. You know what worked here? don’t laugh… board and card games. :lol:

 

I swear it really did work (for me)… you want to feel like a cuck? Try having your ass stomped in euchre by your wife and her male partner :lol:

 

Playing these games were engaging and fun, you feel dominate and competitive as well as submissive. It is crazy how fast the other thoughts get replaced by these. The best part is you are doing it with the love of your life. We now have a stack six feet tall of board games.

 

The end result of this is not to replace all of your kinky thoughts but to sort of supplement them. Find some other social activity that you can do with your wife and other couples. Just try it.

 

“Change” has been mentioned a lot here. We look at change as sort of a sine wave. There are ups and downs. We guys tend to look at things as constants when actually they are variables. What is fun today may not be fun tomorrow, but will be fun the next day. It is not so much about change but about following each others desires and moods. Nothing is permanent. That brings me to one last thing…

 

Stop worrying about time pressures. There is ALWAYS later. (our key words)..

Like many here we fit into the “kids grown and out of the house category” but for a real life comparison; this weekend I had a fantastic time with an insatiable 22 year old with a two year old and she said that the swinging thing really didn’t kick in until she had her baby. You never know….

 

The idea behind all of this is simply to make any kind of swinging into what you deeply want…. A hobby not an obsession…..

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Thank you. That's great advice.

 

I think I have just come to the realization after 10 years that I really am in a great relationship and we are extremely compatible. I would have a hard time finding anyone compatable with my g-rated lifestyle, forget the x-rated.

 

I spent so much time not allowing myself to be happy with 99% of our relationship because 1% I wish were different. I turned that 1% into 99% of my thoughts.

 

I feel different and I'm just going with it. I didn't say anything to her. I'm not discussing it. I'm not saying "hey look, see how long since I brought up playing?" I'm just not even thinking about it and its not requiring any effort.

 

I know I keep repeating some things but I just feel really good. I feel like a big weight has been lifted and its a very awesome feeling that I haven't had in as long as I can remember

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Little update. Still so far so good. I am going to seek out a therapist because though I haven't had any "bad nights" so to speak, I do still have moments. I have friends that are swingers and talking with them sets off some jealousy/envy, but nothing anywhere close to what it was and nothing that sticks around like it did.

 

From reading here and other places I do believe I have a sex addiction. I've gone back and forth with that for years questioning it. Is it an addiction ? Or is it just always on my mind because its not happening?

I don't know that answer.

 

I do know that if left up to me, I would seek to continually escalate our activities. just my own fantasises are always escalating.

 

I think "addiction" is a fluid term. I don't believe my interest and desire to pursue these activities is necessarily an addiction in itself. But my reaction to that being denied, I believe is.

 

I commented in a thread where a couple was concerned about getting "carried away". I don't see anything as a problem as long as the interest is mutual. If they BOTH want to do this very frequently and its not having a negative affect on their relationship... then why not? Its no different than any other hobby really. If a couple goes camping or fishing every weekend, nobody would question it.

 

My wife isn't interested in being totally monogamous. But where she just prefers to be open-minded and if a situation happens, great....me....I want to pursue it actively. That's our main conflict.

 

So basically...things are much better...I still feel like I have had a change...but I do get hints here and there that its not going to be permanent without some outside help.

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Little update. Still so far so good. I am going to seek out a therapist because though I haven't had any "bad nights" so to speak, I do still have moments. I have friends that are swingers and talking with them sets off some jealousy/envy, but nothing anywhere close to what it was and nothing that sticks around like it did.

 

From reading here and other places I do believe I have a sex addiction. I've gone back and forth with that for years questioning it. Is it an addiction ? Or is it just always on my mind because its not happening?

I don't know that answer.

 

I do know that if left up to me, I would seek to continually escalate our activities. just my own fantasises are always escalating.

 

I think "addiction" is a fluid term. I don't believe my interest and desire to pursue these activities is necessarily an addiction in itself. But my reaction to that being denied, I believe is.

 

I commented in a thread where a couple was concerned about getting "carried away". I don't see anything as a problem as long as the interest is mutual. If they BOTH want to do this very frequently and its not having a negative affect on their relationship... then why not? Its no different than any other hobby really. If a couple goes camping or fishing every weekend, nobody would question it.

 

My wife isn't interested in being totally monogamous. But where she just prefers to be open-minded and if a situation happens, great....me....I want to pursue it actively. That's our main conflict.

 

So basically...things are much better...I still feel like I have had a change...but I do get hints here and there that its not going to be permanent without some outside help.

 

Thank you for the update, confused. It's good to hear that you acknowledge that you might have a problem and are willing to seek out help for it, if it is the case. If it is an addiction, perhaps you might want to ask your swinger friends if they can refrain from talking about swinging related topics around you since it sounds like it exacerbates the problem.

 

Perhaps you can try to focus on what is important--your priorities. Putting your wife and future child ahead of your desires might help to put some perspective in how (un)important swinging is in the scheme of things.

 

One last thing, I know of the thread that you speak of. However, if a couple is drinking all the time, they both want to do it, and it improves the relationship, would you still say that it's okay? You have to consider if it is also affecting other aspects of their life...family, job, other responsibilities.

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Now that things are much better, I'm thinking how ironic this whole thing is.

 

My wife doesn't keep it a secret that we're swingers. She likes talking about it and very often we answer questions, explain, and teach about the lifestyle.

 

And all the things we talk about with others, helping them to understand "why" are actually what cause our problems.

 

I realize its not "swinging" at all that's the problem. Its not lack of sex or interest with other people.

 

Its me not practicing what I preach. I read my posts and if I were to answer them like they were from someone else, I would have the solution.

 

Most of my rants are not accurate.

 

My wife DOES enjoy swinging, sex with others, and everything related. And I realize the times that she is "all for it" are also the times when our relationship is at its best. When we are spending time togeteher, doing couple things, having lots of one on one sex, and she has my attention and affection.

 

Then, throwing in a little play and adventure is a mutual thing that pops up, we're both feeling it, and it doesn't require any thought or discussion.

 

Its only when my mood changes, and then I withdraw, that we start a stretch of frustration. When playing is no longer a passive hobby and becomes a "mission"

 

Our "fights"/my frustration would usually revolve around how she will often find an opportunity to hook up during times we are away from each other. Like when she goes on camping trips out of state with family. She will usually be adventerous and not shy about jumping at opportunities.

 

While that's my biggest turn on actually, it would frustrate the hell out of me that she would do that, but then not show the same interest as a couple or when she is back home.

 

But all that is, is her being in control and not feeling an obligation, and just taking an opportunity.

Where with me involved, she feels like we " need to find someone"

 

I'm kind of just blogging here...

 

All in all its really a good thing. Our "swinging isn't over"

I just need to put it in the right spot on the priority list and we're all good.

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I tried to find my old thread but wasn't successful so I'm making a new post.

I want to thank the members of this board who literally helped change my life.

 

Quick reminder:

When I came here about a year ago, I was angry and obsessed with the fact that my wife had apparently lost interest in playing. My overall point was that she knew from as soon as we met that this was something I wanted, and we did play for a number of years, but where I wanted to step on the gas, she hit the brakes until it just wasn't happening and she wasn't even remotely interested.

 

The members here welcomed me. I came across as an obsessed jerk, and you guys gave very blunt advice, and told me like it was, all while not insulting or treating me disrespectful.

 

Fast forward:

 

First I realized I do have a sex addiction. Which is still there but I'm very aware of it and have done very well keeping it under control. While I still fantasize and look at porn, the anxiety and frustration is gone.

 

My wife and I have a great relationship together, had a baby a month ago, and are the happiest we have ever been.

 

She had a great sex drive during pregnancy which fit perfectly with my "pregnancy fetish". And she lovvvved that she was "my fantasy". It was just the two of us but it was great.

 

We have talked a bunch of times about playing but no more of those long drawn out in depth conversations/one sided pressure filled rants. I don't even bring it up.

 

What I learned is she does like swinging and playing and DOES want to do it. And does want it to be a regular part of our fun

I'm self employed and work a tremendous amount of hours. We spent so little time together and she felt the time we did spend together, the swinging topic dominated it. And looking back I totally see it.

 

I was frustrated because I spent so much time figuring out what she would like/agree to, and giving so many options and couldn't figure out why even mild things weren't interesting.

 

It turns out that it all interests her. Even many of my more out there fantasises.

 

What's changed is I cooled my shit and went back to making her number 1. I whipped playing right off the "priority list"

 

Its now something that comes up sometimes and it feels like it did 10 years ago. Genuine excitement, and I see the complete difference in her interest and enthusiasm.

 

With a new baby and other front burner priorities, we haven't played in a long time and where I thought I would be climbing the walls.....I'm not...

 

Knowing that we are on the same page, and that when the timing is right, she's all about it.....completely satisfies me without actually doing the act.

 

I no longer feel like its some kind of mission with a clock ticking. The other major change actually surprises me. Part of my anxiety was that we are getting older. And are now in the "no one over 30 crowd".

I had a hard time with that because my attraction and feelings were still in the "under 30" group that I felt like those opportunities were fading.

 

I guess maybe I have "grown up" or something but boy have my attractions changed. So many things I found unattractive are the complete opposite now. I was only into young hot skinny things. Girls and guys. (I'm bi)

 

A naked pregnant woman went from repulsive to my biggest turn on. I am now hugely attracted to older people who don't have "perfect bodies". I now find the "young perfect" crowd not interesting at all.

 

Best of all is à great relationship with my wife and no more anxiety, knowing we have the rest of our lives to still have fun and there is no deadline or clock ticking.

 

Thank you again to all who gave me the shake up I needed!

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I sure do remember you! I'm glad you came back and gave us an update on how you two are doing. And congratulations on the new baby!

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Yes, thanks for coming back (and hope you stay too). Discussion boards are great, but many times they leave you at "I wonder whatever happened with ____________" so it is always good to hear what did happen, especially when things turned out well.

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