Jump to content
Elusive BiFem

What Defines Cheating?

Recommended Posts

Guest Mr&Mrs-naughty

If you know what you are doing is not cool with your partner and you do it anyway,without them knowing, it is cheating.

 

To nail down a set of black and white rules on what is cheating and what isnt is nearly impossible.

 

Since no two couples dynamics are the same everyone has different ideas on what constitutes cheating. If you go outside the boundaries set in your paticular relationship then you are a cheater.

 

Just my thoughts.:)

 

BTW,

 

The word "YOU" is not directed towards anyone in this thread. Just using it as a generic term.;)

Share this post


Link to post

In my simple view.

 

If it involves deceite or disrespect of ones spouse then it involves cheating. No matter what the subject matter maybe.

Share this post


Link to post
Originally posted by VegasLee

In my simple view.

 

If it involves deceite or disrespect of ones spouse then it involves cheating. No matter what the subject matter maybe.

 

This seems to sum it up well for me.

 

As said earlier it would be impossible to make a list as

no two couples dynamics are the same everyone has different ideas on what constitutes cheating
.

 

We don't copy every e-mail or conversation to each other, we don't see the need. We are seldom on line at the same time because of our schedules but we discuss things before we make any plans or decisions. This works for us.

 

Others on this board have stated they only read emails and go online when they are together.That works for them.

 

Every couple is different and what constitutes cheating is different for each.

 

Jesse

Share this post


Link to post

I think cheating is doing something u know ur partner would not approve of with someone else, plain and simple. Cheating isnt necessarily kissing someone, or flirting on the internet, or even screwing someone else for that matter, if u and ur partner agree thats ok, but I think that if ur partner says no doing this or that, and then u go and do that-ur cheating! thats how we look at it, because to us its all about honesty and being upfront cuase the way we see it is if u have to sneak around to do it, then u shouldnt be doing it in the first place--

 

just my two sense, take it as u will

Share this post


Link to post

To us cheating is defined as initiating or perpetuating any untruth either by intent or by omission. It is a hard line but it works for us.

Share this post


Link to post

We have discussed cheating so many times. I guess the only thing that matters is when the moment of truth comes that the opportunity exists and someone does not really respect the "friendship" factor they hold with their SO. I remember a situation where I gave a lady friend a ride home from a party and she basically stripped down and wanted it right there. She was very good looking and very horny. I never thought of the sex though only my "friendship" bond with my wife who was away. It is the moral high ground and respect that blocks out lower drives such that sex can be for all of us. Laughter etc. are all signs that we are complex and able to function above just a purely horny mode. So cheating is about personal choice and sensitivity for us. Had we been cheated on before? I had in my teens and this formed a deep sense of what is right for me and how it feels. As far a surfing the websites like this? It is alot like going to college and having topical studies. I for one did look at things for awhile for the scintillation factor only to be seduced by the information and nice people. Now my wife loves to read things and talk about it too. So another answer to What is cheating might be a question: "what is the outcome of it?" or "Where is it leading?"

Share this post


Link to post

To me cheating is simply dishonesty. I think VegasLee summed it up pretty well.

 

Mrs. JP

Share this post


Link to post

Some interesting comments here and of course, I have some questions to ask, too. I've suggested that Brad incorporate this topic into Moderated Live Chat tonight. Maybe he will and if so, it should be interesting.

 

I'll get to ask all my questions at once. Yeah...right...like we really pay attention on chat. I must be getting delusional. :D

 

- EBF :)

Share this post


Link to post

cheating I think has to do with the intent thats the magic word INTENT if thier is intent to disrespect either parties spouse then that is cheating because you have the choice to end it. My wife would disagree with that she feels that full intercourse is cheating anything else is ok some people just have totally different views good luck with that one but my best advise is communication

Share this post


Link to post

Hmm, I go to work for a day and miss a whole long conversation.

 

I'm with Mr Naughty - you do something your partner doesn't think is okay or the two of you have not agreed to, that's cheating. And if you do it without discussing it, because you know they'd say no, then you are just sliding down a slippery slope. Cuz they'll find out and then there will be *mom voice* consequences.

Share this post


Link to post
Originally posted by Vjklander

I keep it simple, having sex with another without your partner's consent.

 

This sums it up for me as well.

It's also if your in a competition and you break the rules in order to win

Share this post


Link to post

Cheating simply having sex without your parnter's knowledge and consent.

 

Zgirl

Share this post


Link to post
Originally posted by GirlieZ

Cheating simply having sex without your parnter's knowledge and consent.

 

Zgirl

OK, now define sex.... ;)

 

-B

Share this post


Link to post
Originally posted by BradAndJanet

OK, now define sex.... ;)

 

-B

 

You know...getting naked and doing the NASTY!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Mr&Mrs-naughty

HAVING sex with out consent is what cheating is?

 

For me, if you are plotting to have sex without your partners consent is also cheating. You dont have to commit the actual act before you cross that line.

At least thats the way I look at it.

Share this post


Link to post

Cheating?... Vegas Lee and Fun_pair pretty much sum it up!

Being deceitful or disrespectful by withholding pertinent information is just as much cheating, to me, as flaunting it in my face! Relationships are based on honesty and openess. How much of each is a personal matter, but I would consider any corespondence, meeting, etc., without my knowledge cheating. Not that I need to know everything that was said, just that it occured, or was to occur.

 

In other words, anything done behind the other's back, to me is considered cheating. Why else would it be done in secret?:confused:

 

mrs hmr:)

Share this post


Link to post
Originally posted by hmr

In other words, anything done behind the other's back, to me is considered cheating. Why else would it be done in secret?:confused:

 

mrs hmr:)

 

I wish ya'll could have joined us in chat last night. It was interesting. Some people emphasize the physical aspects of cheating while others are more along the lines of the mental aspects. Obviously, it means different things to many with some aspects of the same for many.

 

Wrnakedru summed it up best for me when she said that she feels that each couple has to define for themselves what is cheating and not cheating. I have a hard time understanding that two people share absolutely everything - every thought - every occurrence in their daily lives. Further, certain situations that might occur I would not share with my partner for fear of hurting that person.

 

One of the scenarios I posed to WR...and yes, we've discussed this on the phone at length...

 

Say you are out of town and a convention...you have 1-2 drinks. Normally, you can drink 4-5-6 and be sober. However, on this night, you get knee-walking drunk - maybe due to not eating all day, being exhausted, medication...whatever. You wake up the next morning in bed with someone else. You are wracked with guilt. You would have NEVER intentionally done that. You swear to all the gods that you will NEVER drink again and you don't.

 

OK...do you go home and tell your partner about it? Knowing full well that this is going to cause severe pain and anguish for your partner? That trust (or lack of) will be an intrusive element in all your remaining years together? Or even that your relationship/marriage may end as a result. Do you want your partner to sit there and wonder for the rest of his/her life every time you go out of town? All of those types of things....

 

Technically, this is cheating. But how do you handle it? Do you inflict that pain on someone else with your honesty or do you keep this information to yourself?

 

I certainly don't know the answer and for many of us, I suppose it would be a tough decision. And I wonder if it wouldn't be even tougher for swingers since their relationships are generally rooted in openness.

 

Just thoughts and wonderings...- EBF

Share this post


Link to post

EBF, you pose a very thought provoking question. Quite a dilema!

The original question was what do we consider cheating. Those are my feelings on cheating, though in the case you pose I don't know how I would handle it either.

 

I would hope to be able to confront my partner with the truth, but one can never know these things until they are put in that position. As you said, do I want to cause severe pain? That is something I would hope would not occur by bringing it into the open and not attempting to hide it. Again, that is something one can never know until faced with it.

 

Yes I would feel hurt, let down and maybe even angry for a while, but I can't believe if my spouse came to me with something of this nature I would loose my confidence in him. Being honest is more important than anything else. He already has my permission to have sex with others, so why should it be a big deal to let me know!? All I ask is that he not sneak around. Be upfront, that way I always know(and feel) I am the one he loves!

 

I think it could be worse if held as a secret. Who's to say, down the road sometime it wouldn't be thrown out in the heat of an arguement. Brought up when noone is thinking clearly, or willing to understand or forgive!!?? Now that could really be a quagmire!

 

Who knows, if ever faced with that difficult decision, I may change my mind and lie like a dog.:D

 

mrs hmr:)

Share this post


Link to post
Originally posted by hmr

Who knows, if ever faced with that difficult decision, I may change my mind and lie like a dog.:D

 

mrs hmr:)

 

:rofl: Now that's what I call honesty! And, I suspect, where many of us would find ourselves...not lying, but not knowing exactly what we would do in a given set of circumstances. So very many variables.

 

OK....so another question that was actually the basis of my thought process...if you don't mnd?

 

We have several participants on the board - married. Have said their wives have no interest in swinging. Yet they come here, participate, make "friends" with all of us, never any hint of trying to "hook-up" with anyone. Essentially, 100% straight down the line. Assuming these wives don't know their husbands spend parts of each day or week here, and assuming they would feel some sort of displeasure if they did know...would that be considered cheating in any respect? The consensus seems to be that if it is in any way deceitful, it is cheating. I contend we all have aspects of ourselves and personalities that others know nothing about. Including our very most significant others. Further, I believe a place like this to come to for reading and friendship might even prevent problems in some relationships. Kind of the "my place" thing, if you understand what I mean.

 

Comments?

 

- EBF :)

 

PS: in a few days, I'm going to be really busy and promise to stop posting this type of stuff. Honest. ;)

Share this post


Link to post

"Further, I believe a place like this to come to for reading and friendship might even prevent problems in some relationships. Kind of the "my place" thing, if you understand what I mean."

 

Elusive BiFem, Your wording above represents one of the more profound messages, which I have read, here on the board.

 

Furthermore, using the example of not telling a partner about a failing is showing that you do care and preserving the human relationship. To intendedly deceive though is a much darker subject and can never be unaddressed. Nevertheless, I think it is fair to ask of those who have over-simplified their definitions of cheating, deceit etc: How do you expect your trusted friend or partner to grow? Making mistakes and getting into situations that teach about our humanity will make us stronger and more interesting. Is cheating a goal to be reached at the "bottom of the barrel" of your relationships? Over-simplifying is like shutting ones eyes to a challenge and with such absolutes there may be no room to grow. There is another caveat here: Do we always need to learn by trial and error? NOPE! That is why couples need to talk openly and honestly about their feelings and not shut down to the possible risks associated with choices and outcomes.

I could think of many examples, but I won't here and now.

 

And again, Flassh

 

 

"I shut my eyes in order to see." Gauguin

Share this post


Link to post

I'm a big fan of changing rules that are there just to be a rule and serve no useful purpose or get in the way of the ultimate goal. I'm constantly reassessing and making changes in every job I have. I will 'bend' a rule making an executive decision and shouldering the responsibility for any fallout, and the bending is the precursor to making the change official. It usually requires the consent of the rest of management so it takes some time usually.

 

I think rules need to be made flexible, depending upon the situation and parties involved. So I'd rather call them guidelines - not so hard and fast.

 

Cheating is defined, in a sexual context which is what I think this thread is ultimately addressing, as a couple's bottom line on acceptable behaviour and activities for each other and their relationship as a whole regarding sex or the potential thereof. These may develop over time as the relationship grows, or they may be set out right at the beginning, maybe due to past experiences with other relationships. It's what each needs to feel safe and cared for and respected.

 

Participating on a swingers message board for the purposes of engaging in discussion with swingers, has that potential for sex, whether acted upon or not.

 

In my own marriage, our goal is total honesty and openness with each other about every aspect of our lives. This doesn't mean we recount blow by blow every little thing we do every single day. It means we share with the other anything that person might need to know about, either now or later. Some things are urgent....some not so and may never become urgent. Families, finances, friendships, children, work...all those areas are shared territory and thus could or do have an effect on the other. Our goal is that the two of us are closer to each other than with any other person on earth. That forms our bottom line.

 

Having a clear, understood, agreed to bottom line is crucial when participating in swinger activities, as we are now dealing with sex. Rec sex or intimate with each other sex, it still can become a vulnerability if not handled well. Cheating is not an issue for us as we have built that total trust and mutual respect that can only come, IMHO, by sharing our day to day lives in a way that I or he wouldn't be surprised to find the other was involved in any activity, conversation, thought process, fear, concern, or online dialoque via email or a message board or chat room, that one didn't know about.

 

We each have our own computers, our own MSN messenger, our own email contacts...some shared, many not. We also give each other quick updates on who we spoke with and what was discussed....even if it's just to say 'I talked to X and Y today and they're doing fine.'. Then if X and Y come online with him...he's up to speed. It's just courtesy and part of our strong bond. It also eliminates a lot of potential confusion and stopping what you're doing to explain to Mr why so and so is messaging him and asking him about an upcoming party LOL. It's much easier to make the communication an ongoing thing :)

Share this post


Link to post

OK. I am one of those persons who participates on this board without my spouse's knowledge. I came across the board by accident and found it to be interesting. I started a couple of threads early on asking for advice as to how to understand my feelings and my relationship with my spouse. Numerous kind people responded and what I learned mainly was to respect my wife's opinions and don't push her into anything which I haven't done. I also have not tried to "pick up" anyone on this board or anything like that, but I have developed a dialogue with a person or two which have been very helpful and cordial. It's sort of like confiding in a good friend. Is that cheating? How can it be bad when it has actually helped me to understand my feelings better and realize that I don't need to "push" my spouse into anything she may be uncomfortable with? Should I quit participating on this board? Am I viewed as a cheater? I can proudly say that in over 20 years of marriage I have never been to bed with anyone but my wife so I am not a cheater in my eyes. We're never too old to learn and I consider my participation on this board more of a learning process than a "cheating" process. So, I guess my message is if you view me as a cheater so be it, but I have to live with my self and my conscience is clear in that respect. Thanks for letting me have my say.

Share this post


Link to post

No, I don't think that any man or woman that comes here with openness and honesty is cheating in any way. I believe I said that in so many words ealier when I mentioned having a "my place" sort of place. Further, I think that by being here and participating, many people have probably saved themselves and their spouses some significant grief in the long run as they have come to learn, as you mentioned Buck, that the worst thing in the world is to try to push a spouse into swinging if they don't want to go there. There are no real rules for swinging, and it really helps to be able to dialogue with others on the subject. Me thinks! You and others have had golden opportunities to see how hurtful swinging (or pushing the subject) could be to ones spouse. Isn't that a valuable lesson in and of itself?

 

Also, you and others (Sexhounddog comes to mind) have shared your learned knowledge with other men asking the same questions you all asked when new members. That probably carries more weight, coming from ya'll, than it would from many of us. And I'm certainly not saying this applies to you, but it wouldn't suprise me to learn that living somewhat vicariously through this board has prevented some cheating or the thought of it. Again, I believe we all have thoughts and things that we don't necessarily share with our SO's and as we've seen, people define cheating individually.

 

Which takes me back to what wrnakedru said...each couple has to define it for themselves.

 

- EBF :)

Share this post


Link to post

If Mrs. Alura got drunk at a trade show and fucked someone, the thing that would surprise me most would be that she had gotten drunk, since she has never done that in her life.

 

We'd probably laugh it off, since it would not threaten our marriage.

 

If she met somebody and thought she might like to fuck him, she'd call me and ask if it was okay. I'd probably tell her to make sure she doesn't get any diseases or emotional attachment and tell me about it later.

 

If, on the other hand, she were meeting someone for tea, with no sex involved at all, but the possibility of a relationship might come up, I'd be devastated.

 

Mrs. Alura here - There is sex for fun, there is sex for control (rape) and there is making love. We Aluras are not threatened by sex for fun, whatever the context.

 

Alura

Share this post


Link to post
Originally posted by Alura

If, on the other hand, she were meeting someone for tea, with no sex involved at all, but the possibility of a relationship might come up, I'd be devastated.

Alura

 

You know...leave it to you two to come real close to the whole thing I've been driving at. I think I'll just move to Tulsa. I need to be around some of this sage wisdom.

 

OK...I'll explain my thoughts on this just a little bit. I got interested the other day stemming from what yawanna said in another thread. In the meantime, I'm not married and haven't been for many years (half my life?). Therefore, I haven't had the opportunity to develop the type of relationship that many couples have developed - one based on trust, honesty...those sorts of things. And since I haven't had that opportunity, I don't always understand things the way others might.

 

Frankly, when someone says they share EVERYTHING with their spouse, I have difficulty with that concept. Is it me because I am a rather private person in some respects? Or is it because I've never been involved in such a long-term relationship? I don't know, tho' I tend to believe it is more a "me" thing.

 

The other thing I wonder...when people say, as yawanna did

It means we share with the other anything that person might need to know about, either now or later.
I can't help but wonder...well, you are deciding what that person needs to know. Not the person. What I might think my spouse needs to know might be quite different than what he thinks he needs to know. I can't quite reconcile that just now.

 

But another thing I want to add separate and apart from cheating - in a way...the comment was made by Buck in response to some of the posts that he and others might be "cheating" just by their presence here without their spouses knowledge. Same and similar...for me, I've learned a lot about marriage here...what it takes, what it requires, how to problem solve certain issues. Apply that same thing to a spouse that hangs out here and takes that knowledge home to continue a happy non-swinging relationship. What is so bad about that? How can you say it is cheating when in fact their presence and participation on this board may have strengthened the relationship?

 

- EBF :)

Share this post


Link to post

I used the word 'potential'.... as Buck says, he has no intention of going further than talking and he would never do anything to hurt his wife. That's his call.

 

Just like I decide what my husband needs or may need to know if it may have any later effect on him and/or our relationship. That's my call.

 

Yes...we make decisions regarding our spouses best interests and what information or activities we have that they may need to know.

 

If keeping the secret involves violating an agreement with the absent spouse, such as she doesn't want him participating on a swingers message board, and he is, then that's cheating I think.

 

I would be truly hurt if my husband were conversing on a message board and I wasn't aware of it. That would be a 'secret' between us and that will stymie our relationship. He would always know that he's doing something I know nothing about. That would preclude any goal of total honesty and openness, and for us...that's very important. For Buck and others, they seem to have bottom lines and goals that are different from ours.

 

Everyone makes their own choices for their own reasons, and I don't believe I am one to condemn or condone...it's not my life. As a topic tho, yes.... I have an opinion. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Frankly, when someone says they share EVERYTHING with their spouse, I have difficulty with that concept.

 

It's true for us EBF :) In the end, we only have each other. And as I've told my husband, I'd suck the cheesies out of his teeth :D

 

All together now............... EEEEEWWW!~!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Originally posted by yawanna

Everyone makes their own choices for their own reasons, and I don't believe I am one to condemn or condone...it's not my life. As a topic tho, yes.... I have an opinion. :D

 

And surely YOU don't think that I would think that YOU wouldn't have an opinion....:rofl:

 

Ok...yeah, yeah, yeah...so swinging couples might be more open with each other than non-swingers. Got it. Now if you can, put yourself in the place of a non-swinging couple. Insecure wife. Throws a fit if her husband even looks at Playboy. Or as Vegas Lee said, I believe, a wife that thought making eye contact with the waitress was flirting. In other words, they don't have that open and talk it out relationship we hear so much about on this board. She lives in a bubble and wants him to live there with her. He's on a message board. He has fantasies, he enjoys some discussion of sex and sexuality. Katy bar the door if she found out!

 

Do we fault him for coming here, reading, participating, wondering, understanding, questioning? Or should he live in the bubble with her?

 

- EBF :)

Share this post


Link to post
Originally posted by Buck

OK. I am one of those persons who participates on this board without my spouse's knowledge. I came across the board by accident and found it to be interesting.

Buck, I chose this portion of your posting to respond to as it really hits home in several aspects.

 

Long about...I'd say six or seven years ago, I happened to walk in on Mr. O while he was on a Swingers Ad site, looking at pictures and such. My first impression was, "What the hell are you doing?". I'll admit, I was miffed. I felt betrayed, like he was looking for something that I couldn't give him...etc. Now mind you we had been doing pillow talk for some time which always made for mind exploding sex, however, I was flat out stunned. Our relationship was less than five years old at that point and this put our household in turmoil. Yes, we had discussed this in the bedroom while making love, yet we had never actually discussed making a fantasy come true. End result of my having discovered this, he abandoned looking at any other sites that were swinging related. Over time as we grew to know each other better and the same fantasies still existed in the bedroom, I began a search on my own as I now felt comfortable enough in our realtionship and knew that whatever we did would not take away from who we were as a couple. It was then that I 'secretly' started a search on my own, to learn more about swinging, just in case I might ever consider turning a fantasy into a reality. Through trial and error (mostly trials) I happened upon this board and through the discussions, my questions were answered openly and honestly by many members, some of who are still regular posters today. Their sharing of thoughts and experiences allowed me to figure out if we were cut out for this lifestyle. Imagine Mr. O's surprise when I showed him this board and told him that we needed to place an ad. ;)

 

Did I cheat by gathering information on how best to learn more about something I was interested in, regardless of where my opinion lay in the end? I think not. Should we have had better communication with each other when looking for info or for viewing specific sites? Yes. Our mis-communication turned into a positive as we learned by those mistakes and while we don't seek to tell each other exactly 'who, what, when, where, or how', unless it is imperative to us both at the moment, we have given ourselves the freedom to explore anything and everything that is of interest to us.

 

So in order not to bore ya'll further... No, Buck. I do not see you as a cheater. I see you as a person gathering information and while you may or may not live vicariously through this board, it is quite obvious that you are doing nothing more than Mr. O was when I happened upon him visiting swinger sites.

 

To answer the original question of what 'cheating' means...

 

I can only answer for myself, but it would be anything that has not been touched upon in our personal lives and is driven by emotional attachment. Be it another person, a 900 number or playing around in a chat room. (This applies to vehicles the same as it does for sex. ;) )

Share this post


Link to post
He's on a message board. He has fantasies, he enjoys some discussion of sex and sexuality.

 

I wouldn't have those discussions with him..it would feel like I was participating in his cheating. That's just how it feels to me and when it feels wrong I don't do it. Usually. Okay many times. Okay as often as I can. :D

 

In this scenario tho...I won't engage married men who are on here and their wives don't know or who have said no to swinging, I won't talk 'sex' with them.

 

I keep it on the board and respond to general questions about the topic, that which they can render a better understanding to talk about this with their SO later on they hope.

 

Clarify... I wouldn't share the down and dirty details of what happens amongst swingers sexually.

Share this post


Link to post

Sorry...I should have better clarified the talking about sex and sexuality thing. I didn't mean "talking sex" and I wouldn't do that with anyone - married, single...not my style. I meant talking sex and sexuality as we discuss issues here on the board. My mistake. - EBF :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Originally posted by Buck

I also have not tried to "pick up" anyone on this board or anything like that, but I have developed a dialogue with a person or two which have been very helpful and cordial. It's sort of like confiding in a good friend. Is that cheating?

 

YES, You are cheating, You Scum! How Could you! Get off this Board!! You filthy 2-timer!

 

Just kidding! All this talk makes for interesting conversation. But really, If someone walked into your office crying "he/she cheated on me" What would come to mind?

Share this post


Link to post
Originally posted by Elusive BiFem

I think I'll just move to Tulsa. I need to be around some of this sage wisdom.

- EBF :)

 

Ah, you're just saying that because you've heard our city has been chosen to be the site of the world's tallest free-standing bronze statue named "The American." ;)

 

Thanks, EBF.

 

Alura

Share this post


Link to post

Anything physical, emotional or sexual done without your partner's knowledge and WHOLE HEARTED consent.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Our definition anyway.

 

;-*

Share this post


Link to post
Originally posted by Mr&Mrs-naughty

Since no two couples dynamics are the same everyone has different ideas on what constitutes cheating. If you go outside the boundaries set in your paticular relationship then you are a cheater.

 

a couple's bottom line on acceptable behaviour and activities for each other and their relationship as a whole regarding sex or the potential thereof.

 

EBF I tend to agree with you personally, on many points. But, they can only be as they would relate to my relationship with my spouse. As the two statements above point out, everyone must consider their own relationship. Who are we to judge others not knowing their circumstances?

 

Personally, I see no more harm in veiwing a web site of this nature, than veiwing a Penthouse or other type magazine. This is just me, because I know and trust my spouse completely. We share pertinent information with each other daily. I say pertinent, meaning if we feel it affects our relationship, or that it is something the other needs(will need) to know. This is a decision that we have to make concerning each other. Pertinent information includes anything from kid problems to who we talked to on the IM, and finances...etc. Nothing is ever held back, so there are never any surprises.

 

If anyone is veiwing this site without their partner's knowlege, and it is not leading to extramarital affairs, but giving them support and knowledge to take to their partner I see no harm what so ever in it. Many people discuss the possibility of swinging, but don't go any further because one or the other is timid or shy.

 

Sometimes it takes the other partner to take the first step!

Taking the first step is sometimes a frightening thing to do. They want to proceed slowly, as to not scare their spouse. They also want to gather as much information as possible before broaching the subject again. Gain some insight as to what they are talking about, before they bring their partner onto the site. At least I would hope that is their ultimate goal. Share the knowledge, then the dream!;)

 

mrs hmr:)

Share this post


Link to post

I really do appreciate your comments, hmr, along with many others (and a special thank-you to yawanna!). As I mentioned earlier, this topic is interesting to me since I've never had the opportunity to develop the types of relationships many of you have and as a result, in some respects, I have no real concept of the issues of trust and cheating in a strong relationship. It's much like having kids...I have lots of "book-learning" about kids, growth and development...but no practical experience. It's easy for me to say "if my kid did that I'd wollop the stew out of him!" but really...would I? As hard as I try, my two little 4-legged babies don't quite fit the roles of real kids. And as hard as I try, I can't really understand what cheating and the avoidance of same might mean to people in a strong relationship.

 

I do tend to believe that it would be very difficult for me to share "everything" with a partner just due to my personal nature. There is a part of me that I keep very private and therefore, I assume that others do as well. Another thing...I believe it involves the dynamics between the two people in the relationship. I was involved with someone for a long period of time that simply did not understand the need to share certain types of information and was critical of me at times (in that humorous but sarcastic way some have - know what I mean?), saying that I shared too much. He was the sort that really wasn't interested in hearing much of anything. But I ended that relationship. Why? I didn't feel like he was cheating, physically/sexually, but I did understand that my perceived lack of communication caused me to lack trust in him and our relationship. So maybe that is the key to what I'm asking...for me there was a sense of cheating on an "emotional" level.

 

So! hmr...you said...

EBF I tend to agree with you personally, on many points. But, they can only be as they would relate to my relationship with my spouse. As the two statements above point out, everyone must consider their own relationship. Who are we to judge others not knowing their circumstances?

And that seems to be it in a nutshell. Every relationship is different and cheating is defined differently by all in the context of their current relationship. Now I'm beginning to see why so many psychologists have studied this. Lots and lots of areas to discuss. :confused:

 

- EBF :)

Share this post


Link to post
Originally posted by Mr&Mrs-naughty

If you know what you are doing is not cool with your partner and you do it anyway,without them knowing, it is cheating.

 

To nail down a set of black and white rules on what is cheating and what isnt is nearly impossible.

 

Since no two couples dynamics are the same everyone has different ideas on what constitutes cheating. If you go outside the boundaries set in your paticular relationship then you are a cheater.

 

Just my thoughts.:)

 

BTW,

 

The word "YOU" is not directed towards anyone in this thread. Just using it as a generic term.;)

 

 

Yup...agreed. As long as C and I stay within the set bounderies then everything is fine.

 

I have no problem with her going out and sleeping with another man as long as she tells me about it. That's not cheating to me.

 

Now she doesn't feel as comfortable as I do. If I were to sleep with another woman that I had met whether I told C or not it would be considered cheating on her.

 

So I believe cheating to be different for each individual or couple. We have a friend who's husband is addicted to porn. I'm talkin' internet, phone, movies...the whole nine yards. To her, he's cheating on her because he's not including her in their sex life. And I'm almost inclined to agree with her.

 

 

D

Share this post


Link to post
Originally posted by C&D

So I believe cheating to be different for each individual or couple. We have a friend who's husband is addicted to porn. I'm talkin' internet, phone, movies...the whole nine yards. To her, he's cheating on her because he's not including her in their sex life. And I'm almost inclined to agree with her.

 

D

 

And I agree with you...it is different for all the couples and individuals. And like you...I think I'd be inclinded to feel that there was an element of cheating in the fellow with the porn addiction. I wonder how she handles that?

 

- EBF :)

Share this post


Link to post

C here of C&D, the sad thing is that "she" doesn't handle it well at all, it has been a struggle their entire relationship. The problem that she has with it is that he doesn't include her, and she is willing. She had some sexy pictures made (nothing nude) for him one year for their anniversary and he was totally pissed at her and didn't speak to her for days because of it. But it is o.k. for him to break them (financially) making phone calls and ordering pornos on pay-per-view or on internet chat rooms. I guess he expects his wife not to be that way.

Share this post


Link to post

You know, C&D, this almost makes me think of that thing...what is it called? The "Madonna Complex?" I think that's what I'm thinking. I don't know...some might call it a form of abuse, but really, because you see it as an addiction, I'd be more inclined to think of it as some type of illness. I wonder if they have ever sought counseling for this?

 

- EBF

Share this post


Link to post

She has sought counseling, but he "doesn't have a problem". His words not hers......If it isn't one thing it is another, he has an addictive personality. Before the porn it was pot, or alcohol. The sad thing is she is a very patient person and has been putting up with this for at least 15 years! One day she will finally make the move and see that she needs and wants more than what she is getting, and deserves it and he will be left thinking about what he lost.

Share this post


Link to post

I have to agree with those that have said that cheating comes down to deciet simply because what cheating is is going to vary from couple to couple and sometimes from person to person.

 

I had a boyfriend many years ago who thought he had cheated on me by allowing another girl to kiss him. He hadn't kissed her back he just didn't stop her as fast as he thought he should have and he felt terrible. I pretty much laughed at him.

 

In my relationships I would classify swinging as anything that either of us felt we needed to hide from the other one regarding a relationship or connection to a third party.

Share this post


Link to post
Originally posted by Elusive BiFem

:rofl: Now that's what I call honesty! And, I suspect, where many of us would find ourselves...not lying, but not knowing exactly what we would do in a given set of circumstances. So very many variables.

 

OK....so another question that was actually the basis of my thought process...if you don't mnd?

 

We have several participants on the board - married. Have said their wives have no interest in swinging. Yet they come here, participate, make "friends" with all of us, never any hint of trying to "hook-up" with anyone... Further, I believe a place like this to come to for reading and friendship might even prevent problems in some relationships. Kind of the "my place" thing, if you understand what I mean.

 

 

I think that message boards like this can be an outlet for those that are interested in an activity, but can't for one reason or another participate. Message boards can be like a support group and actually help the relationship. It really depends on the person visiting. Will they eventually act on it, or is it simply a release or support area?

 

That answer has to be answered by each person individually.

Share this post


Link to post
Originally posted by hmr

[. Many people discuss the possibility of swinging, but don't go any further because one or the other is timid or shy.

 

Sometimes it takes the other partner to take the first step!

Taking the first step is sometimes a frightening thing to do. They want to proceed slowly, as to not scare their spouse. They also want to gather as much information as possible before broaching the subject again. Gain some insight as to what they are talking about, before they bring their partner onto the site.

 

mrs hmr:) [/b]

 

This describes my situation exactly! So, am I cheating? Not in my mind, my heart, or my conscience. I am simply moving slow as advised by many others and waiting for the right time to introduce my spouse to this board. That time may come, and it may not. so in the meantime, I still do participate in some of the discussions. If you check my history of posts, you'll see that at first I had many questions and from time to time I have pursued answers to those questions when I saw a post from someone with similar questions or already had the expeiences I had questions about. The other posts I've made have just been a general hodgepodge of things and comments. I guess to each his own, but I am certainly protective of my relationship with my spouse and want to make sure I proceed slowly in the swinging idea. Thanks to those of you who have sent me PM's of support and understanding.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest pacouple4u

For me, trust is the foundation upon which a solid relationship rests. If either partner does anything (vicariously or physically) that he/she feels must be concealed, then that structurally weakens the strong foundation. Basically, if I felt that something I might do could possibly hurt my partner (emotionally or physically), I simply would not do it. Playing is fun when everyone is respected - playing with someone's head or heart is about as far away from cool as you can get! Deceit has no place in a joyful way of living; honoring one another definitely does. soapbox.

Share this post


Link to post

mostly well said, pacouple4u.

 

Question back though: does not "structurally" imply the part that can be seen by others? Or, did you mean the hidden "foundation" of your relationship. In your building analogy, I would suggest that your individual values and mores mesh together to form a greater foundation and the end product is a structure, when viewed by others, is solid and immoveable by a storm. Of course, for some here on this site, a storm can be devastating because they do not hold any values or mores in common with their SO. Is this a true statement. Please let me know if this is true for you? I think it is true for me and I do venture into some areas of interest that test my values and mores and as quircky as this sounds, I simply like to explore and read and get feedback without dragging my spouse into such worlds. I get to see and hear some things that may challenge my devotion if only for a moment but I constantly am reminded of how much I care and love my better half. I share the gems that I uncover here and elsewhere as we may need them in our lives. Thus, we are getting feedback even though I don't tell her every last thing I say or read here. I will repeat the words I used previously, if someone is so dark to deceive their partner, one must take this deceit to heart and confront it and kill it or remove it. Sooner than later.

Share this post


Link to post

flassh,

 

Structure is what defines the substance of the relationship. What others see is secondary. If how others see you affects the structure, then the relationship is suspect.

 

"Of course, for some here on this site, a storm can be devastating because they do not hold any values or mores in common with their SO. Is this a true statement. Please let me know if this is true for you? I think it is true for me and I do venture into some areas of interest that test my values and mores and as quircky as this sounds, I simply like to explore and read and get feedback without dragging my spouse into such worlds. I get to see and hear some things that may challenge my devotion if only for a moment but I constantly am reminded of how much I care and love my better half. "

 

I may be misunderstanding you, but with repect, unless you're only referring to thinking process and discourse, your comments reads like rationalization for doing things under your SO's radar.

 

J&B

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...