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GregandLori

Cheating and rule breaking has destroyed my trust

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Greg has cheated on me with one nighters more than once in our relationship as well as continues to (even though he say's he won't) have contact with old loves from days gone by via email, text, phone, Facebook and yes even planned visits to them when he is out of town and near them on business trips. Even though he say's he wont' and knows it's wrong he still does!

 

After a long discussion about 6 months ago or so he FINALLY admitted (of which I was grateful for and and thanked him for his honesty) that he does not have the ability or desire to be monogamous. Hence, here we are exploring swinging. It would not be my first choice but I am open to it and have to say I am finding it intriguing but still not really mentally all in yet. I have a slower learning curve than he does ;) But am finding it interesting to say the least not loving it but not hating it either. I think I just tend to be more picky than most women ;)

 

That being said: We have been to several different venues now . A few ended up OK. We have played with one another and others as agreed BUT most have ended up disastrous. Mostly in part because HE does NOT stick with our agreed rules! We agree and review, agree and, review, and review again just before we walk in the door so there is no misunderstanding but then 3 hours into the night he breaks at least one of them almost every single time.

 

Most recently: We were at a home party of 30-40 people. There really was no one that I was interested in and I told Greg that it was OK for him to find a solo and have fun without me. BUT going back to our rule, WE BOTH agreed over and over again that we are supposed to tell one another who we are going to play with and where. Not to just disappear.

 

So off he went to troll the group, I am fine:) But then he ended up, yes, breaking a rule. He came outside to check on me asking me if he could bring me anything. “She came out as well shortly behind him asking if I was having a good time? Nothing odd as she was the hostess after all so I thought she was just roaming and being a good host. :) Nice girl, I liked her a lot. At that point my guy say's OK going back inside see you in a bit etc. She then goes back inside as well, but not directly together maybe 30 seconds apart. Still no reason at all to think they are hooking up. Our rule is WE SAY WHO WE ARE GOING TO PLAY WITH AND WHERE-NO DISAPPEARING ACTS. 5 minutes later her husband came out to me to and said “Hi your husband is inside fucking my wife, I hope that is OK”? NO word from my guy, NOTHING like “ hey honey, Jane doe and I are going in to play, I love you see you in a bit”. If he had done so I would have been 1000% fine. That is what I wanted him to do and told him to do. And so I told her husband - Um HELL NO it is NOT OK ! He asked why? And I told him that once again he broke a flipping rule like he does each and every time we do this and YES, I got upset and went into the room told him I was leaving and ended up making a scene because he got mad at me for it and we left. I have tried everything I can possibly do to make this man happy, but he can't even abide by a few AGREED shared rules in order to make this doable, I don't see the point in trying. I feel totally disrespected by him over and over and over.

 

He of course he is now livid with me, telling me It is all my fault as he always does when this falls apart. “I am too uptight. It is a swingers party that's what we are supposed to do go fuck other people. He said he didn't have to tell me, he sent the husband out to tell me etc....and he was just doing what I told him he could do....and how I embarrassed him and now he cant show his face to them again”. And to rub salt in the wound he told me he now tells me he is repulsed to even sleep in the same bed with me. If anything it should be the other way around.

 

WELL........My take is if he were a man of his word he would have had a great time and we wouldn't be having this issue right now would we? I was NOT mad he found someone, I was mad because I can't trust him to keep our rules right even in front of me for God's sake. I was mad because it was NOT HER husbands job to inform me, it was his! I ask a few simple things , that's it and he can't even do that. I thought this was about trust.

 

I continue to find it intriguing how he say's one thing when he is trolling to set these dates up. More or less telling me what I want to hear to get me agreeable, but then things change once we are there. He has a proven VERY RECENT history of not being able to be trusted when I am NOT around. I wanted to give him the opportunity to explore this for US so we can do this TOGETHER as AGREED so he didn't feel the need to sneak around behind my back. All I asked for were a few simple agreed rules. Because he can't keep them I can't even feel like I trust him right in front of me!!! You would think that after several times of these debacles he would be thinking OK gonna play by the rules this time – don't want to mess it up again!! How many times does it take for the rules to sink in if ever? Remember – in his mind this is ALL MY FAULT because he didn't follow the rule. What am I missing?????

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...But you can not make him follow the rules.

 

Truer words were never spoken. You can control your behavior, but you can't make others control theirs. What you can do though, is remove yourself from the situation if it continues. Personally, I would never put up with this. But, that's just me.

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Great advice above.

 

Trying to fix a strained marriage by swinging is like trying to put out a fire with gasoline. Don't do it. It won't work, it's dangerous, and about the sure thing is that you will get burned.

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Welcome to the Swingers Board. Sorry that a situation such as this is what brought you here, but one thing about this site is honestly, and as such we talk about both the bad and the good in swinging, no rose colored glasses here. So, you've come to the right place, and we hope you continue to be part of our community regardless of what initially brought you here.

 

You have received some outstanding responses already, and I won't try to add to those because they were spot on and need no reinforcement. I will provide a different take though, and from a male perspective.

 

Swinging is a team sport. Your husband should be absolutely counting his lucky stars that he has a woman like you as his wife. Given his history of cheating and lying, that you were willing to try a fresh start and a different direction should be something he is thrilled to have even if he knows he doesn't deserve it. You have demonstrated that you have some level of interest in it yourself, but just want to explore it at your own pace, which is completely understandable. You may not consider yourself a swinger, but you have certainly shown that you understand it a thousand times better than he does, since one of the Cardinal Rules of Swinging is go at the pace of the slowest person. If he cared anything about swinging, and by that I mean swinging as a COUPLE, he would not be acting like this. All he is doing is cheating, just in different way. To be blunt, you aren't even part of his thought process.

 

If there was any hope of this working, once you offered him this opportunity to have his cake and eat it too, he would have taken the spark of interest you have in swinging and put his own desires aside to try to nurture that. Making sure you are comfortable and having a good time, making sure your needs are always met first, making sure to faithfully follow any rules you have, involving you in everything, etc. In short, making you at the top of his priority list where a spouse should be. Any grown adult should have realized that, that this was a golden opportunity, all it was going to take was setting aside and leaving behind the "me" for the "we". That didn't happen, in fact the complete opposite did.

 

Swinging when both are fully involved is exponentially more rewarding than going it alone. By involved, I don't mean simply your physical presence in the same building either. If both aren't mentally and emotionally connected, then it doesn't matter if you are shoulder to shoulder, you are still worlds apart. If both are mentally and emotionally connected, then one can be 100 miles away while the other is playing, like in couple that will play separately, and still be as if you are together, just one is present in spirit only while the other is there body and spirit. The body thing you don't need, the spirit you MUST HAVE if you are going to swing as part of a couple and it not tear the relationship apart. You have shown you were open to both, body and spirit. Not promised, but open to. He's rebuked that through his actions. Truth is, he doesn't want you there, body or spirit.

 

Breaking off a long relationship is nothing to be taken lightly, but I think you need to seriously evaluate what is best for you at this point. Work on finding another relationship where you will be treated with love and respect. If swinging is still something that kind of intrigues you, there will always be time for it later, and if you find it interesting and intriguing now, then I assure you if you are doing it with the right person and are in it together, it will be much more so then.

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You are not in a marriage with a swinger. You are in a marriage with a cheater.

 

If you could not trust him to be honest and faithful to you when in a monogamous marriage, you cannot trust him to be faithful and honest with you in an open marriage. He breaks the rules and does as he pleases because he wants to and chooses to. He, then, turns the blame on you and gaslights you to make you believe you are going crazy. You are not crazy, you are married to a cheater and he is disrespecting you in the worst ways.

 

Swinging never helps a bad marriage, and it does not solve the issue of cheating.

 

I feel like this is becoming more prevalent in the LS the past couple years. I am seeing more drama at clubs and events, and it makes me wonder if it is due to one spouse not really being interested and going along to keep peace in the marriage. I see it both among men and women, but moreso from the wives.

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Breaking off a long relationship is nothing to be taken lightly, but I think you need to seriously evaluate what is best for you at this point. Work on finding another relationship where you will be treated with love and respect. If swinging is still something that kind of intrigues you, there will always be time for it later, and if you find it interesting and intriguing now, then I assure you if you are doing it with the right person and are in it together, it will be much more so then.

 

This is so much truth. It CAN happen. It DOES happen. It happened for me. And my marriage is a partnership and our adventures are on the same page and MUTUALLY enjoyable and beneficial.

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OMG - Thank you ALL for taking the time for the wonderful replies. SOooo much great advice, thoughts and things to ponder. WOW

 

I do not have time to properly reply right now but will when I do. But I did want to at the very least take the time to say THANK YOU - to ALL.

 

Lori :)

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OMG - Thank you ALL for taking the time for the wonderful replies. SOooo much great advice, thoughts and things to ponder. WOW

 

I do not have time to properly reply right now but will when I do. But I did want to at the very least take the time to say THANK YOU - to ALL.

 

Lori :)

 

Please do update us when you sort things out. AND feel free to come back to post more questions. We are a community of caring people and it pains me to hear of your heartbreaking situation.

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You are learning even more about who he is. Can you live with who he is? Do you want to?

 

If yes, give up rules. Just enjoy him when he is with you and let him be free the rest the time. Or cut him loose.

 

He is who he is, either cheating or breaking rules at parties. He just doesn't see things like you do. Or like most of us do. But it's his way and has been, from your description, for a LONG time.

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You've gotten such great advice. I hope it is comforting and helpful to you. I really feel for you and can't imagine the pain that you've gone through. You sound like a strong woman.

 

I wonder why you stay with him. Do you have children or a business together? As someone said above, if you need to stay married you need to realize he will not change, enjoy what you have when you have him and let go of any rules. You may be better off opening your relationship completely and using condoms with each other to protect yourself. You may find healthy romantic relationships of your own that will allow you to maintain a superficial relationship with your husband.

 

It would probably be helpful for you to talk to a counselor or therapist about your feelings and your long term goals. Talk about how life with your husband can mesh with your hopes and your ability to maintain a healthy sense of self. For me it would be difficult to live with and love someone who has no respect for my comfort and blames me when he is in the wrong.

 

I'm sorry you are going through this and I hope you will keep us updated.

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some amazing insights and advice on this thread. I feel for this woman. seems like she is trying 100%. I just don't think the guy seems worth the effort!

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First off – I am new here and cant' figure out how to TRACK posts. If someone can PM me I would be grateful.

 

I would like to thank you ALL once again for the prior and added comments and PM's since I have first posted. Each and everyone of your insights have given me so much to think about and consider. And sadly the story continues to unfold and in a very negative way.

 

I wrote the the woman he was playing with a message to apologize for any discomfort I brought to her and anyone else affected. What I got back was from them was a note saying that in their eyes HE did nothing wrong. He only did “ what ANY man would do in the situation”. WOW is all I can say. You men can chime in here if you'd care - I am interested on your take.

 

My guy in turn then apologized to them as well, however, for MY bad behavior. He took NO responsibility for to them for his, to tell them that he broke our agreement. And if he had not done so things would have been OK. Yep, back to blaming me for his lack of respect for us. He was more worried about his reputation with them than working on this in order to move forward in a positive way. He told them that clearly this is not something we can do together (because of ME, I am not cut out for it, but he is ) and he will be pursing it on his own as a single agent.

 

It is very clear what is important to him.........and it isn't me and must not have been for a very long time. I am sure all of you must already know how this story is going to most likely end short of a miracle............sigh. This is NOT what I was hoping for for sure. I am a women who is ALL IN when I am in a relationship. I work VERY hard giving my all. But even I know when I have exhausted myself. I believe on working together and alone when together isn't working and to not give up. But even I do understand I can't do it alone for too long and nor do I want to! :( But if this is what it takes to see the light, I suppose it was meant to be.

 

As I said. I do want to take the time to individually respond to each or you all as soon as I can. You have all been so kind and insightful and I am grateful for it. But new job, kids back to school and all of this mess along with lack of sleep makes for a time shortage....

 

Bye for now and big hugs to all and thank you again!!!

 

Lori :(

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I wrote the the woman he was playing with a message to apologize for any discomfort I brought to her and anyone else affected. What I got back was from them was a note saying that in their eyes HE did nothing wrong. He only did “ what ANY man would do in the situation”. WOW is all I can say. You men can chime in here if you'd care - I am interested on your take.

 

Of course, because men are animals who are incapable of self control or even rational thought when confronted by a woman they find sexually attractive. This is why rape is legal and socially acceptable... no, wait... there's something wrong with that thinking... what is it? Oh right, IT'S TOTAL BULLSHIT!

 

What ANY man would do in that situation, my ass. I will tell you, give her attitude, THIS man wouldn't touch that woman with a ten foot pole.

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I am sure all of you must already know how this story is going to most likely end short of a miracle............sigh. This is NOT what I was hoping for for sure.

 

Unfortunately, we have witnessed this type of ending on the board, and IRL.

Just a couple of questions to satisfy curiosity: How long have you two been together/married, and how long have you known he was a cheater?

 

As far as tracking comments, I assume you are asking about subscribing to the thread: That should be close to the top of this page, where it says "Thread Tools". From there you have an option to subscribe.

 

Best of luck to you.

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Based on the info you've presented here (since we haven't heard his side), I'm gonna put a new label on this guy Greg...abuser. I don't think he's just a cheater, he's abusive. And now you say you have kids in this. Makes me wonder what else is going on.

 

I recommend getting out and letting him have all the time in the world alone...if not for you, do it for your kids. You don't want them to have this as an example of a relationship for their own lives.

 

And if it's any consolation, with his publicly wanton disregard for the person he's in a relationship with, he's not gonna do too well in this lifestyle...especially as a single.

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Lori, thank you for updating your thread and letting us know how things are unfolding in your situation. I've very sorry to hear about the direction it is going in though. :(

 

I wrote the the woman he was playing with a message to apologize for any discomfort I brought to her and anyone else affected. What I got back was from them was a note saying that in their eyes HE did nothing wrong. He only did “ what ANY man would do in the situation”.

 

I'm going to give the other couple some leniency because they don't know about your husband's past indiscretions like you do. Nor do they know about the rules/boundaries you two have (although, that should have been communicated prior). For them, they just witnessed you causing a scene at their party. In their shoes, I can see how they would perceive the events since they might have felt that you might have caused a negative vibe for them and other party goers. That doesn't mean that one is acting right or wrong...it's just how it is when people have limited information and see things from their perspective only.

 

My guy in turn then apologized to them as well, however, for MY bad behavior. He took NO responsibility for to them for his, to tell them that he broke our agreement. He told them that clearly this is not something we can do together (because of ME, I am not cut out for it, but he is ) and he will be pursing it on his own as a single agent.

 

Now this type of behavior is unacceptable considering that your husband knows about the rules you two agreed on and his history about breaking those rules. If he was really seeing swinging as a "team sport" he wouldn't throw you under the bus like that. Also, did he even talk to you about going out to swing as a single agent or did he just announce that to them out of the blue?

 

As it has been said time and time again here, swinging magnifies the cracks in a relationship (it didn't cause them)--and there are always cracks. It's how the two people within that relationship react to them that determines if a relationship is able to continue swinging as well as continue being a relationship. Some couples are able to work through those cracks and some aren't. As much as I wish you two could work through this, it takes both of you to do so and it sounds like one of you is focusing on the "me" and not the "we".

 

Hugs to you as well, Lori. If you wouldn't mind, please continue to keep us all updated.

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